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 Overread wrote:
Even in the lore Spyrers are utterly broken when encountering Gangs. You'd be throwing down two or three gangs against one enemy model in order to beat many of them - esp since in the game you're hard-restricted on what tricks you can pull.

Brats on the other hand would be the classic all gear no idea faction - high value high quality gear, but with low stats and thus a higher chance of failing. Sure in the lore many are pretty well trained, but its nearly always shown that for all their training they are inexperienced in gang style warfare of the Underhive.

AH mentioned Brat gangs and their Jetbikes on twitch as something that they'd like to do after the Outlander gangs were done

I'd love MadMax Underhive!

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm sticking with the "Brats should be the gang, Spyrer rigs should be 'endgame' equipment they can buy" view, but Brats as the gang and Spyrers as "hazards" would be cool as well. Anything that doesn't involve actual Spyrer gangs.

I believe it was discussed on the last Necromunda show on Warhammer TV, but the gist of it as explained to me by Owen barnes at the FW/Necro open day was that Spyrers should be so powerful and impressive that a game against them is one of survival; as such, letting one player control one is a little unfair. Instead, it'd be some sort of thing that would appear during a game between two gangs; like the rogue cyborg scenario from GW4. Two gangs fighting over some jusnk when the Predator turns up, basically.


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 Overread wrote:
I'd love MadMax Underhive!

As well as the Underhive zones represented by the Zone Mortalis tiles and the lower areas of Hive City represented by the Sector Mechanicus scenery, you could have a good low-Spire campaign using the new Sector Imperialis terrain or similar, and everyone plays Brat gangs. Or out in the wastes with Orlock mining convoys, Cawdor scavenger patrols, Escher harvesting teams, etc. Kitbash vehicles from the Goliath truck, the Ork buggies, Adeptus Mechanicus walkers, Sentinels, etc. Four distinct environment zones, and then there's the space station.

Delaque is the only gang I truly anticipated. I have mixed feelings about the redesign. It looks gorgeous. But I will miss the matrix/riddik look. The look less like a gang and more like a cult, which is something I’m not sure I’m completely happy with. Makes them more unique but less “delaque” I guess
They are conversion bliss now though

 Overread wrote:
Even in the lore Spyrers are utterly broken when encountering Gangs. You'd be throwing down two or three gangs against one enemy model in order to beat many of them - esp since in the game you're hard-restricted on what tricks you can pull.

I like the dissonance here - thread in which a lot of people said a gang can take on space marines (even though a few malnourished hobos with rusty pipes can give them equal fight...) is now making spyrers into some unbeatable boogeymen (even though a single Astartes should be able to tear all but most experienced spyrers apart with trivial ease...) despite the fact they are just regular humans, and a lot of spyrer gear and tactics are pretty stupid. Take the dual power fist or lighting claw suits - really? You want to close into melee range with foes wielding plasma guns and melta weaponry? Unless these suits are somehow laughably more durable than things like Terminators, Canoptek Wraiths, Meganobz, Wraithguard and other things regularly dying to them in 40K, or unless Necromundan meltagun is so bad it would be S4 in 40K, the very first fight of such spyrer with a veteran gang would result in gang leader or heavy trying on pretty spiffy new suit with a few patched up holes...

Conversely, I really hope GW makes scenario featuring SM hunting for candidates in the underhive with appropriately absurd stats (like every single one being rerollable 2+) to drive home just how difficult a fight with someone with reflexes far beyond best humans would be, someone who doesn't know fear, doesn't tire, knows his weapon perfectly and can hit smallest opening with perfect accuracy, someone with battle plate that laughs at everything but your biggest guns and warns him about ambushes, someone who faced enemies far more dangerous than you will ever be hundreds of times and triumphed.

Yup, that sure sounds like equivalent of fighting a few hobos who didn't eat whole week and are lit by candles everywhere to make a better target, hobos who can nevertheless still beat your ass

I know what is off about these Delaque, the choice of paint scheme. Sure they are sneaky backstabbing baldies. But the original delaque had a beige/brown trench coat as the colour scheme not black.

I'd be interested to see them painted up in there proper style not this neo-matrix/dark city cenobite look.

I like the dissonance here - thread in which a lot of people said a gang can take on space marines (even though a few malnourished hobos with rusty pipes can give them equal fight...) is now making spyrers into some unbeatable boogeymen (even though a single Astartes should be able to tear all but most experienced spyrers apart with trivial ease...) despite the fact they are just regular humans, and a lot of spyrer gear and tactics are pretty stupid. Take the dual power fist or lighting claw suits - really? You want to close into melee range with foes wielding plasma guns and melta weaponry? Unless these suits are somehow laughably more durable than things like Terminators, Canoptek Wraiths, Meganobz, Wraithguard and other things regularly dying to them in 40K, or unless Necromundan meltagun is so bad it would be S4 in 40K, the very first fight of such spyrer with a veteran gang would result in gang leader or heavy trying on pretty spiffy new suit with a few patched up holes...

Orrus have force fields as well as bolt weapons buiult into their fists. Malcadon are spiders, they ambush, trap and immobilize with webbing, descend from the rafters upon unsuspecting prey.

 Irbis wrote:
Yup, that sure sounds like equivalent of fighting a few hobos who didn't eat whole week and are lit by candles everywhere to make a better target, hobos who can nevertheless still beat your ass

A hobo with a lascannon will ruin anyone's day.

@Irbis OK, silencers make more sense. But the weapons still look too clumsy for the models to me. Like Dark Eldar with Ork weapons.

I figured the guilds were resin hanger on models, like the coaches in Blood Bowl.

And as for redemptionists...




I think I had 40 or so in the 1000 Maniacs.

He still hasn't taken it back...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He still hasn't taken it back...

Get the flamer...

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
@Irbis OK, silencers make more sense. But the weapons still look too clumsy for the models to me. Like Dark Eldar with Ork weapons.

DE was my first thought upon seeing these too. They have nice techy human guns, but gaunt, spindly dudes with daggers. Old Delaque were thench coat gangsters, these guys have robes.

Considering how common robes are in the 40k universe they probably are the sneakier option...

JWBS wrote:

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
@Irbis OK, silencers make more sense. But the weapons still look too clumsy for the models to me. Like Dark Eldar with Ork weapons.

DE was my first thought upon seeing these too. They have nice techy human guns, but gaunt, spindly dudes with daggers. Old Delaque were thench coat gangsters, these guys have robes.

These guys are wearing trench coats as well, they’re just keeping them buttoned up instead of the more usual open style you see.

And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.

No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.

No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?

Nobody's pretending they're literally the same as the old models, most of us just don't agree that they're some egregious additional level of different from the old concept compared to the other modern gangs. I liked the old gangers fine, but their theme was a bit naff compared to most of the other gangs and to their own background material - I'd have preferred the new models be a bit less inhumanly tall, but Dark City-meets-Lynch's Dune is a lot more thematic than a whole gang of Neo & Riddick's illegitimate love children.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.

No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?

You said Sigmarines are identical to Space Marines so I'm not sure if you can argue here.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.

No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?

I think that’s a fair criticism. Out the ‘Big 6’, I feel Delaque are the biggest departure from the originals. The other 5 just had existing elements accentuated. Here? I can see why those that like the originals won’t necessarily like these ones as a Delaque Gang.

Don’t think anyone is actually saying they’re a rubbish look overall.

Cawdor changed as much as the Delaque did - moreso if you consider their background. Van Saar are also a pretty radical update too, IMO.

The old Delaque would make good Venators or even just armed "civilians", I think. At least, that's what I'm going to do with mine. It's not much of a stretch to modify the Downtown Dust-up scenario to arm the civies with rifles rather than stub guns.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Cawdor changed as much as the Delaque did - moreso if you consider their background. Van Saar are also a pretty radical update too, IMO.

I'd argue that the Cawdor minis don't look that much different to the originals. They're missing the hoods, and gained a lot of candles, but that's about it. You could argue that their weapons are very different, but they've changed the aesthetic of all the weapons for each gang to make even basic weapons distinct between gangs.

Van Saar are the next biggest radical departure, but are still wearing armoured bodygloves like their predecessors. The main difference with them is the facial hair. They're all radiation'd out and dying, so they don't all have wonderful beards and moustaches like the Van Saar of old.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think that’s a fair criticism. Out the ‘Big 6’, I feel Delaque are the biggest departure from the originals. The other 5 just had existing elements accentuated. Here? I can see why those that like the originals won’t necessarily like these ones as a Delaque Gang.

Don’t think anyone is actually saying they’re a rubbish look overall.

'Least you get what I'm saying.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You said Sigmarines are identical to Space Marines so I'm not sure if you can argue here.

Thanks for the input.

I get what you're saying too. I just think it's a change for the better.

The scavenger look for the Cawdor is a pretty big change. That's all new to this edition, whereas the change to the Delaque is more emphasising their existing traits, I think. For example, I could see using these Delaque alongside the old ones as some sort of religious cult (not necessarily in the context of a Necromunda gang, perhaps) with the new models being the inner circle and the old ones the newer recruits who haven't been inducted yet - the main sticking point for me would be the different style of weaponry. For example, as a Chaos Cult gang - use the old models until they get their first advance, then swap them for a new model.


Whereas with Cawdor, I'm not sure I'd want to combine the new and old like that.

I think it's great that the starting gangs have grown further apart in concept and rules. I mean, other than their available skill tables, all the 6 gangs in Oldcromunda were the same. The start of a campaign was basically who did well at the start as the identity of the gang did not develop until half the gang started getting advances.

With Newcromunda the differences are right there from the beginning. Yes, I'd like it if there were some new Goliath minis with some more mundane weapons (Shotguns and Autoguns especially), but I like that their signature weapon (Stubcannon) is unique to them, how Lasguns are the signature weapon of the Escher (although the 5 cred cost for Lasguns makes Laspistols a terrible investment - but that's a balance issue).

I like the really rough industrial look of Orlocks, and the way that Van Saar don't lower themselves to 'shotguns' and 'autoguns', but have las-versions of all of them. Cawdor's scavenged approach makes them unique, and the poor-man's Custodes weapons are a nice touch.

Still can't make out what the Delaque's are meant to be armed with yet...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Still can't make out what the Delaque's are meant to be armed with yet...

Silenced hand flamers

Heheheh!

Nah, they're saving them for the FW conversion kits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think it's great that the starting gangs have grown further apart in concept and rules. I mean, other than their available skill tables, all the 6 gangs in Oldcromunda were the same. The start of a campaign was basically who did well at the start as the identity of the gang did not develop until half the gang started getting advances.

With Newcromunda the differences are right there from the beginning. Yes, I'd like it if there were some new Goliath minis with some more mundane weapons (Shotguns and Autoguns especially), but I like that their signature weapon (Stubcannon) is unique to them, how Lasguns are the signature weapon of the Escher (although the 5 cred cost for Lasguns makes Laspistols a terrible investment - but that's a balance issue).

I like the really rough industrial look of Orlocks, and the way that Van Saar don't lower themselves to 'shotguns' and 'autoguns', but have las-versions of all of them. Cawdor's scavenged approach makes them unique, and the poor-man's Custodes weapons are a nice touch.

Still can't make out what the Delaque's are meant to be armed with yet...

autopistols and autoguns, I think. The one with two knives, back middle, has a distinctive autgun muzzle poking out from behind his back, and even the silenced pistols and rifles have the forward sight on the muzzle that is part of the visual definition of a 40k autopistol/gun. and one with some sort of long rifle. A little bit less varied than the other gangs; I hope there's some more options on the sprue.

Silenced, High Calibre.

Makes a certain amount of sense for sneaky sneak sneaks.

You don't want to be noticed, but you also don't want the target to survive.

Lets not forget that Necromunda likely has access to the rare Hollywood Silencer! So its a true silencer not just a suppressor*


*note due to the questionable build quality, maintenance and regular potential dunking in acidic surfaces and drips from above; the quality of a silencer's performance is questionable at best and thus might be closer to a suppressor in actual use if a ganger doesn't maintain their weapon well or bought/stole it from the wrong ganger.

Don't you go dragging the real world into it

Overread wrote:Lets not forget that Necromunda likely has access to the rare Hollywood Silencer! So its a true silencer not just a suppressor*

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Don't you go dragging the real world into it

Hollywood and Real Word? Does not compute......