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That's a really interesting list, I like it as well.

can we get a consensus on whether or not the Exocrine can advance and still shoot with the new strat?

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
can we get a consensus on whether or not the Exocrine can advance and still shoot with the new strat?

From BoB
Use this Stratagem at the start of your Shooting phase. Select one EXOCRINE unit from your army; until the end of that phase, that unit is treated as not having moved in your Movement phase.

From the codex
Weapon Beast: If this model does not move in your Movement phase, it can shoot all of its weapons twice in your Shooting phase.

Symbiotic Targeting: If this model does not move in its Movement phase, you can add 1 to its hit rolls in the following Shooting phase. If you do so, it cannot charge in the same turn.

English is not my native language and I have been wrong before,BUT I feel this one is pretty straightforward.

I would agree with you, though I've heard people argue that 'advancing' is a separate thing to just 'moving'. My store is happy playing it that it can advance and shoot, but wondering if that's going to be the standard.

You can declare a model will advance, and then decide not to move it (maybe you didn't roll as high as you needed to duck between two pieces of cover). If you did that, then the model would still count as having advanced later in the turn.

I see the stratagem as putting you into a similar state. Your model has not moved, but it has still advanced.

Good argument, that seems like the correct interpretation upon second look.

Of course I meant that you couldn't, jeez sometimes I miss the point

Considering the Advance just Modifies the Movement characteristic, i would say you could still move and advance and use your stratagem and still shoot twice as though it hand't moved.

 Dynas wrote:
Considering the Advance just Modifies the Movement characteristic, i would say you could still move and advance and use your stratagem and still shoot twice as though it hand't moved.

But it's also a state.

If you have a 6" move, roll an Advance and get a 3, then move only 5", do you still count as having Advanced?

My answer would be yes. Just like what eldar players do with their units that require you to move at least x" to gain a bonus, if they move half that forward and half back they still count as moving even if they ended up in the same spot as they started. Just my interpretation of it.

Arson Fire wrote:
You can declare a model will advance, and then decide not to move it (maybe you didn't roll as high as you needed to duck between two pieces of cover). If you did that, then the model would still count as having advanced later in the turn.

I see the stratagem as putting you into a similar state. Your model has not moved, but it has still advanced.

I think this is correct, in that the Exocrine would essentially have two 'tag' states. "Has not moved" and "has advanced".

But the stratagems and special rule all only mention "If this model does not move...". And so, as it counts as not moving, you can still fire twice and get +1 to hits. But...

The rule for Advancing says that "A unit that Advances can’t shoot or charge later that turn". So it would be fine if you had assault weapons, but the Exocrine has a Heavy.

So unfortunately I don't think you can advance and shoot. Only move and shoot. But it's kinda begging for an FAQ, so I would write a bunch of emails to the GW rules team for clarification. Cos it does imply that they meant for it to count as stationary, advance or no.

Niiru wrote:
So unfortunately I don't think you can advance and shoot. Only move and shoot. But it's kinda begging for an FAQ, so I would write a bunch of emails to the GW rules team for clarification. Cos it does imply that they meant for it to count as stationary, advance or no.

FAQ just hit.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/8bad282d.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3lsNufmGVBHDs9bB3YNSsreCv80B1LV3tfQCKjbob_NdyiZqvCUcpQBDo

Q: If an Exocrine model is affected by the Symbiotic Devastation
Stratagem in the same turn that it Advanced, can it then shoot
that turn?
A: No, because it has still Advanced that turn.

That's that one cleared up I guess.


In other news, named characters can no longer take Adaptations.

Yup.

Man they nerfed us again. Named characters not getting PA was expected. Pysker reroll is worthless now. FOr a pysker race we really need the Grey Knight no smite increase.

Also, AP increases not effecting Massive and Monstrous sycthing talons hurts.

We might of had a chance, still cant even get anything better than an 8+ reroll on charge. While BA can get +2 and rerolls and all this jazz.

So, basically the hive fleet adaptations are now pointless as the main codex hive fleet rules and access to stratagems is just better?

Derpy.

Frustrates me that they could leave some slightly OP stuff in and regain some semblance of codex balance. Frustrating that after four decades they *still* cannot get the faction balance right.

zerosignal wrote:
So, basically the hive fleet adaptations are now pointless as the main codex hive fleet rules and access to stratagems is just better?

Derpy.

Frustrates me that they could leave some slightly OP stuff in and regain some semblance of codex balance. Frustrating that after four decades they *still* cannot get the faction balance right.

Yup.

A lot of the new Psyker powers and custom hive fleets are not good enought to offset the existing stuff.

They should have just made a 2nd pysker table like marines have with all the new powers. Make the unit pick form one or the other, and have a stratagem that allows them to pick from both for 1 cp. Barb should also allow to know another power. The lack of pysker power in general for a race that is supposed to be arguable the best in the universe, with Eldar probably being on par wit them. Give us GK smite treatment where it doesnt go up.

I sent an email to GW basically telling them all my frustrations with the lack of power, they givith (sorta) and surely take away. We have like 3 months of solid codex and have been on the bottom for nearly all of 8th edition.

Lictors still not really good due to T1 charge nerfs and cant get deny overwatch unless he DS or is out of LoS. DS charge on an 8+ with rerollable is still only like 59% chance, while BA can get buffs for +2 and/or rerollables ,3d6 etc... Bring back pheremone trail to offset the T1 nerf and allow GS to use them. Allowing hive commander on units after DS would help as well. GS are already glass cannons.

Warriors need to be our primaris, they need to be T5 3+; though the new Physiology ans start did help, just not enough. Gants, gargs, hormies, termies, GS, all die to massive AP that is out there.

I proposed allowing us to unlock one Adaptive Physiology per Detachment and then can gain another 1 with the CP strat and a 5th by giving up WLT. This might get us on par with the SM doctrines which get the entire army at not CP/WLT cost off the bat. Given that most nid armies have 12+ units this seems fair IMO.

I emailed GW stating as much. Hopefully they listen.

We just have to accept that marines are on another scale of power. There is no reason to compare our stuff to theirs.

No faction right now can compete with them, except by making lists tailored against the primaris profile.

Marine's power level is an anomaly, not a new step of the power creep. We saw the next codex in the new cycle, the sisters, and they are good but nowhere near that level.

After this round of buffs we have good chances against every non-marine out there. The new lictor gave us what we needed against the Tau, which was the last ones who gave me big troubles.

Right now all top tables are marines or anti marines lists, we aren't the only ones in trouble. It will be like this for a while, until marines receive a nerf. There isn't much else to do except to accept it and wait.

Our biggest fear, that the marine level was a new standard and GW went with a huge power creep, has been debunked with the sisters.

Spoletta wrote:
We just have to accept that marines are on another scale of power. There is no reason to compare our stuff to theirs.

No faction right now can compete with them, except by making lists tailored against the primaris profile.

Marine's power level is an anomaly, not a new step of the power creep. We saw the next codex in the new cycle, the sisters, and they are good but nowhere near that level.

After this round of buffs we have good chances against every non-marine out there. The new lictor gave us what we needed against the Tau, which was the last ones who gave me big troubles.

Right now all top tables are marines or anti marines lists, we aren't the only ones in trouble. It will be like this for a while, until marines receive a nerf. There isn't much else to do except to accept it and wait.

Our biggest fear, that the marine level was a new standard and GW went with a huge power creep, has been debunked with the sisters.

But that is the new benchmark with their rules stacking. Marines are not going to get the nerf. The lictor will not let us beat tau. You send him in and don't get overwatched, ok cool, maybe he tags a screen unit of drones or fire warriors. Then you send in the Genestealers attacking the same unit, Tau can still For the greater good the genestealers with every other unit that the lictor isn't touching. It doesn't really help. Tau is probably the only thing that can compete with marines, because they have shield drone spam, and marker lights to ignore cover.

Nids have become depressing to play over the last year or so in our household. The buff marines got made swarming pointless and big bugs feel too fragile.
I feel like we have to take the upmost advantage of the new Baal to compete, to still be second rate to just how marines are at their very basic levels. This is driving me nuts as my fiancee plays Tyranids and is struggling to keep up with all the new stuff and still dying to just overwhelming scores of ap bolters lol. At this point we just ignore most of Baal aside from 1-2 strats and the invul for OOE. If she's going to die anyways at least she doesn't have to get a headache from it.

 Dynas wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
We just have to accept that marines are on another scale of power. There is no reason to compare our stuff to theirs.

No faction right now can compete with them, except by making lists tailored against the primaris profile.

Marine's power level is an anomaly, not a new step of the power creep. We saw the next codex in the new cycle, the sisters, and they are good but nowhere near that level.

After this round of buffs we have good chances against every non-marine out there. The new lictor gave us what we needed against the Tau, which was the last ones who gave me big troubles.

Right now all top tables are marines or anti marines lists, we aren't the only ones in trouble. It will be like this for a while, until marines receive a nerf. There isn't much else to do except to accept it and wait.

Our biggest fear, that the marine level was a new standard and GW went with a huge power creep, has been debunked with the sisters.

But that is the new benchmark with their rules stacking. Marines are not going to get the nerf. The lictor will not let us beat tau. You send him in and don't get overwatched, ok cool, maybe he tags a screen unit of drones or fire warriors. Then you send in the Genestealers attacking the same unit, Tau can still For the greater good the genestealers with every other unit that the lictor isn't touching. It doesn't really help. Tau is probably the only thing that can compete with marines, because they have shield drone spam, and marker lights to ignore cover.

Marines are not a new benchmark, they are an anomaly, this is what i was trying to say. The fact that the next codex in the new cycle, which we know that it is a "new" codex because it has anti soup rules, is on a power level which is comparable to all the other non marine codici, puts everything in a different perspective. If we could go against marines, then that would be a raise in the general power level, while right now the marines (and not all of them) are just an anomaly. I guess that we will not know for sure until the next new codex what is exactly the benchmark, with only 2 examples it is a bit hard to calculate a trend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Keramory wrote:
Nids have become depressing to play over the last year or so in our household. The buff marines got made swarming pointless and big bugs feel too fragile.
I feel like we have to take the upmost advantage of the new Baal to compete, to still be second rate to just how marines are at their very basic levels. This is driving me nuts as my fiancee plays Tyranids and is struggling to keep up with all the new stuff and still dying to just overwhelming scores of ap bolters lol. At this point we just ignore most of Baal aside from 1-2 strats and the invul for OOE. If she's going to die anyways at least she doesn't have to get a headache from it.

Sorry to tell you this, but since the last FAQ, no more invul for OOE.

Where do you see that?

Im looking at the nid BoB faq and it says nothing of the sort.

How was OOE getting the Invul? If it was an adaptation, that was removed.

Im saying where do you see that named characters cant get adaptations?

I don't see that anywhere on the BoB faq.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Im saying where do you see that named characters cant get adaptations?

I don't see that anywhere on the BoB faq.

Top of the page, right column.

Page 76 – Adaptive Physiology
Add the following sentence to the end of the first paragraph:
‘Named characters cannot be given an Adaptive Physiology.’

adaptations =/= adaptive physiology ?


(think GW made this confusing unfortunately) (notice a trend?)

Yeah i propose new acronyms

HFA = Hive Fleet Adaptions

AP = Armor Penetration

PA or perhaps just Physiology for Adaptive Physiology

Thats... annoying. Considering it's canon that all our characters respawn from fleets and can easily have a unique mutation. Seriously why? What was so broken they needed to do this? Simply because WT and Relics were restricted by characters?

Going to be a funny convo though.
Her: This is all complicated and they die anyway.
Me: yeah...
Her: At least OoE finally has an invul
Me: About that...

Really...……. That's pretty weak sauce.

Marines can literally buy every character they have a relic and a warlord trait and we cant give our generic named characters anything...….

The absurd disparity has killed my interest since they began super charging the Marines.

Oh, so is the consensus now that the entirety of PA for tyranids is worthless?

People would know better then me but I wouldn't say it's worthless. The lack of giving OoE an invul feels rough but honestly I was never an overall fan of the current WT or Relics our Codex had outside of 1-2 things. Having more options are nice... I just got to find something to fixate on.

The one tiny I got out of Baal is the Mawloc strat. Many argue it's not worth it still but I do like the idea of getting some kind of use out of it.