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I have a Colt/Umarex .22 M4 that likely has more rounds through it than the rest of my guns combined. Use it for plinking, training folks who have little or no experience shooting, and it has taken a varmint or two. .22 is pretty cheap to shoot and the gun is just plain fun. No recoil, looks 'tacticool' which new shooters seem to enjoy, is accurate with the iron sights or the red dot I have on it. I think I paid between $300-$400 for it probably in the 2010 time frame. I've gotten a lot of 'value' from it.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
What do you consider to be the best value shooter?
Could be cheap a cheerful. Could be mid-price, could be well expensive. I’ll let you decide your own definition of value here.
Just include the Why
Ruger 10/22 It's a great starter gun for youngsters, yet you will still like to use it all through your life. Decent varmint gun, while still giving you semi-auto fun. It won't kill your wallet for gun price or ammo cost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/03 13:26:08
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
M1 Garands are great guns, and good for hunting, but I wouldn't personally call Garand's reasonably priced. They're usually in the $2-3k range. And that is for a modern reproduction, you can pay even more for a vintage one.
Strictly speaking from a practical standpoint. 2-3k for a semi-auto 8 round rifle caliber rifle is... very expensive. But you're buying it because its a mother fething M1 Garand, bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam PING! It's kinda in a league of buying a Dodge Charger, high performance and kick-ass everything, but you're definitely paying a lot of money for that privilege.
My personal pick for the best value. My latest purchase, the Kalashnikov USA KP-9/KR-9
You can get it in a lot of configurations. $1200-1400 in either Pistol, Rifle, or Short Barreled Rifle variants.
Not terribly expensive, but you get an extremely high-quality carbine that is cheap to shoot, great for home defense, and if you get a rifle version the 16" barrel would not be terrible for hunting small and medium sized game, anything smaller than a mule deer really. +P 9mm really comes rocketing out of that barrel. Anyone who likes carbines should get one, it's just soooo much fun.
If you want to spend even less money, you can build Ar15s from stripped lowers for less than $600 if you shop around. And then you've got more choices and options than you'd ever know what to do with.
Of course the Ruger 10/22 was designed around "I want to spend less than $200 and not care about ammo prices". It's basically the definition of a value gun. I just personally don't find a ton of satisfaction with .22lr. It's riding that line of "technically its a firearm with real bullets!"
Honestly the only .22lr that might get me excited would be one of those Tippman miniature Maxim machineguns that were chambered in .22lr
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/06 04:11:30
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Original, USGI Garands are available from the Civilian Marksmanship Program for $650-1100 depending on condition, and surplus Garands in shootable condition go for $900-1200 on the commercial market.
Check prices on Gunbroker; they're certainly not $2-3K, nor are they modern repros.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/07 03:24:10
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Hmmm, I did some looking and I see 1 or 2 that are more along $1000, but that is just opening bid. Most of the Buy It Nows are multiple thousands.
And any gunstore in my state has them for $1500+ at a minimum. They're definitely 2k guns in CA at the very least.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/08 03:31:56
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Hmmm, I did some looking and I see 1 or 2 that are more along $1000, but that is just opening bid. Most of the Buy It Nows are multiple thousands.
And any gunstore in my state has them for $1500+ at a minimum. They're definitely 2k guns in CA at the very least.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I suppose another reason CA sucks
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Garand rifles escape the crazy Tactical rifle rules in Cali. because the gas system was set up to use a particular loading of .30-06 you have to be careful about ammo, or buy an adjustable gas plug then tune the rifle to a particular load. I once posted a picture of a Mini-G conversion. Just over 16 inch barrel. Fun gun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grey Templar wrote: M1 Garands are great guns, and good for hunting, but I wouldn't personally call Garand's reasonably priced. They're usually in the $2-3k range. And that is for a modern reproduction, you can pay even more for a vintage one.
Strictly speaking from a practical standpoint. 2-3k for a semi-auto 8 round rifle caliber rifle is... very expensive. But you're buying it because its a mother fething M1 Garand, bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam PING! It's kinda in a league of buying a Dodge Charger, high performance and kick-ass everything, but you're definitely paying a lot of money for that privilege.
My personal pick for the best value. My latest purchase, the Kalashnikov USA KP-9/KR-9
You can get it in a lot of configurations. $1200-1400 in either Pistol, Rifle, or Short Barreled Rifle variants.
Not terribly expensive, but you get an extremely high-quality carbine that is cheap to shoot, great for home defense, and if you get a rifle version the 16" barrel would not be terrible for hunting small and medium sized game, anything smaller than a mule deer really. +P 9mm really comes rocketing out of that barrel. Anyone who likes carbines should get one, it's just soooo much fun.
Have an AKV, super fun.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/17 01:39:41
How distinctive are pew pews to those familiar with them?
For loose, and probably crap comparison, I can identify whether or not a given model is GW, definitely the faction, and even advise the rough time period it’s from. And once upon a time, I could look at a conversion and tell you where the individual bits were from, including what had been hand sculpted.
And are there any designs you’d consider hallmark, where lesser known companies try to do imitations as close to the copyrightable line as possible?
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
How distinctive are pew pews to those familiar with them?
For loose, and probably crap comparison, I can identify whether or not a given model is GW, definitely the faction, and even advise the rough time period it’s from. And once upon a time, I could look at a conversion and tell you where the individual bits were from, including what had been hand sculpted.
And are there any designs you’d consider hallmark, where lesser known companies try to do imitations as close to the copyrightable line as possible?
There are definitely distinct families of firearms, especially rifles. An AK-47 is iconic, similarly the M16/AR15 family of rifles is easily distinguished.
But if you put two AKs in front of me and said one is Bulgarian and one is Polish I'd have to look at the markings.
Think of it like cars - there's few/almost no one that can identify all cars and aftermarket parts by sight. But there are recognizable cars and enthusiasts for particular brands/particular periods that can have a high knowledge of details others might overlook.
I will say modern polymer, striker fired pistols tend to blur together for me. Glock made a big splash and everyone copied them.
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
It definitely depends.
Some certain firearms are absolutely unique and have distinct visual identifiers anybody can tell. Others often require experts to identify the differences between similar firearms.
Guns are also a lot more blurry than miniatures, especially when it comes to copy protections since a lot of firearm designs are not protected under anything like that. Patents run out a lot sooner than copyrights and once a patent is gone its gone. The actual protection of a firearm design is that guns are finely machined devices that you can't really 100% reverse engineer. You'd need to be given the original tooling specifications from the original designers. You can't just get an example of a gun, measure everything, tool up, and then start churning out exact copies. You can get close, but it'll be slightly different no matter how good you try. But if you are given the original tooling specifications you can absolutely make perfect copies, at least in theory.
I would say there are 3 main designs that are ubiquitously copied all the time. AR15, AK, and Glocks. The Patents of which have long since expired, if there even were any, and the original tooling specifications are out in the wild. Kind of the equivalent of a book entering public domain. You can't call your AR-15 clone an AR-15, as AR-15 is owned by Colt, but it can be physically identical in every way. Same with the Glock. You can't call your knock off Glock a Glock, but you can make it physically identical and compatible with Glock parts.
Likewise, every former Combloc country made their own version of the AK. The vast majority of whose parts are fully interchangable. You can make a Frankenstein AK with parts from a dozen different countries and it'll work. And in terms of identifying what parts came from where you'd need an expert to truly tell. Then there are a few oddballs that look like AKs, but aren't. Like the vz.58, which looks like an AK, shoots the same ammo, but shares exactly zero parts including magazines.
The mechanical workings of these guns, which is what would have been protected by patents in the past, are free game so nobody can get taken to court because of how your gun functions. Most types of actions were originally patented back in the 1800s and have long since become publicly available.
This kind of shows how firearm technology hasn't actually advanced much since the early 1900s because little in the way of new patented functionality has been developed. A new gun may come out, but its going to work much the same as guns that came before it.
Back to the vz.58. Its one of those things that you say "That is totally an AK", but then you look closer and you think something is off, but you can't figure out what. Its like an AK that someone drew from memory.
Again, zero parts commonality with an AK. It can't even use the same magazines, which is odd because even some AK derivatives that don't share parts can use the magazines. Like the ACE32 which can use normal AK magazines.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
If anyone has seen the movie White Boy Rick, in the beginning they are at a gun show. A vendor is trying to pass off disguised, modded AK's (some rather common varient) as higher-end varients. A 14 year-old kid and his dad call him out on it and basically extort him into selling several of them at a loss to prevent his expulsion from the gun show.
With antique guns it can get a bit easier to tell the difference, since the gunsmiths made them by hand. So differences in style were more pronounced.
But, on the flip side, there are modern gunsmiths like the late Dick Vandall down in Pittsburgh (and the still living, last I heard, Mike Styles), who could fake it well enough to fool a museum expert.
So, to use your miniatures analogy, there are guys who fake it about as well as a Chinese recaster, and then there are guys who fake it like some of the Russian groups that can make FW minis indistinguishable from the real McCoy.
Interesting, even back in the day, some designs were commonly knocked off. The US Springfield (1795) is basically a knock off of the French Charleville, with a few, fairly minor, changes, for example.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/24 01:00:55
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Ahaha! It’s me again! And…I’ve been watching Robocop. Again. Just for a change. Surprise Surprise as Cilla once (very badly) sang. Just….Google that one. Or don’t. Your life will be richer for not checking me. If you do, you’ll understand.
Anyways. Robocops gun looks to be a Desert Eagle type thing. Which to my well established poor knowledge is just a heavy calibre pistol. Semi-automatic.
Yet, in the film it appears (well, sounds to be accurate) to fire in three round bursts. Which is kind of convenient for my question, because it is threefold…..
1. Is it indeed a Desert Eagle?
2. Even if I’m wrong, can whatever it actually is do three round bursts, with or without existing after market additions
3. If 2. is a no? Is it conceivable that such an after market addition could exist?
Right. Off you go! I’m just at the bit where Emile stacks it and gets all goopy.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
It is indeed a Machine Pistol and is capable of 3 round bursts and full auto.
While I am sure it would be possible to modify a Desert Eagle to have a burst or full auto mode I doubt anyone has done so nor would such a thing be in any way usable.
Funfact: Robocop was originally supposed to use a Desert Eagle, however the costume made the pistol look comically small. So they instead went for modifying the Beretta, and they also were able to have a full auto/burst mode for real.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/30 21:31:38
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: While I am sure it would be possible to modify a Desert Eagle to have a burst or full auto mode I doubt anyone has done so nor would such a thing be in any way usable.
Heads-up for anyone interested in roller-delay H&Ks- the MKE-manufactured, Century-imported AP5 is being heavily discounted at the moment, likely due to the current Turkish economic crisis. Unlike some of the prior clones, they're not reverse-engineered MP5s, but rather are made on actual H&K tooling and using the TDP that was provided to the Turkish military. I got mine this past weekend and despite some concerns about break-in (500 rounds, during which they recommend 124gr 9x19 NATO), it's running perfectly on S&B 115gr. Going to file a form 1 shortly.
Don't really feel like getting it out of the safe, but I have an S&W 422 6".
I heard it's kind of rare, but I doubt that.
The low bore axis makes it a dream to shoot. Very low recoil impulse and smooth operation.
I keep it around for home defense and range shooting.
Although recent firearms laws made it illegal because of its 12+1 capacity.
I've fired some .308 rifles, and I like e'm. The Scar looks really cool but I've never shot one. Maybe my opinion would change after I try it out, but it's my favorite gun. Just above the G-36, but unfortunately I like that one because of it's cool scope, but that apparently sucks.
Parts kits are available in the US so technically I could have one, but building one requires essentially fabricating an entirely new semi-auto firing mechanism from scratch. And it's an SMG, not much point in making it semi-automatic only.
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: What gun that you’re not allowed to own (due to laws, or the gun not doing a real) do you really want to add to your collection?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I would love an original FG-42
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: What gun that you’re not allowed to own (due to laws, or the gun not doing a real) do you really want to add to your collection?
Well, there's really not much you CAN'T own, you just need to go through some major paperwork. A Russian Ballistic knife isn't a firearm, but is illegal, but fun looking. Technically legal, but a full-auto MP5. A semi-auto is on my bucket list and is one of two weapons (the other a Styr Aug) to complete my "Guns of Die Hard" collection. A pen gun would be nifty.
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