Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Bizarre that we're entering the 6th month of this with no clear consensus.

The reality is that science reaches consensus far slower than anyone really wants and far faster when it's not being pulled in a dozen different directions by self-serving politics.

Well the scientific grey results don't lend themselves for policy politics that well now, don't they.

What was the old saying in regards to statistics?

Very much so.

The controversy over Hydroxychloroquine continues.

The Lancet and a US journal have withdrawn their articles which said it was bad for patients. This is due to flaws in the data supplied by a private company, Surgisphere.

The WHO renewed trials.

Meanwhile a University of Oxford study found an adverse effect of the drug from their own data.

Politics also are using wrong arqument in their goal to discredit mask. "doesn't protect you from catching it". Duh. Point is to prevent you from infecting others. Part they conveniently forget and are just focusing on avoiding virus yourself

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Very much so.

The controversy over Hydroxychloroquine continues.

The Lancet and a US journal have withdrawn their articles which said it was bad for patients. This is due to flaws in the data supplied by a private company, Surgisphere.

The WHO renewed trials.

Meanwhile a University of Oxford study found an adverse effect of the drug from their own data.

Sadly, a lot of people are going to read that first bit as "chloroquine isn't bad for patients", which is not what it means

Indeed.

The Oxford study shows a couple of percent higher death rate for Hydroxychloroquine treatment.

The Turkish health service believes in it, though. I don't know if they have done a proper study or submitted data to Oxford.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Wierd, my local conspiracy theorists have been sharing "Reports" that the WHO says masks are only needed when taking care of the sick, which I attribute either to an out of date theory, or complete BS.

Not really a fake report.
Today: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
June 5th 13:40 GMT: https://web.archive.org/web/20200604003932/https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
They finally updated the info to support "recent findings"

tneva82 wrote:
Politics also are using wrong arqument in their goal to discredit mask. "doesn't protect you from catching it". Duh. Point is to prevent you from infecting others. Part they conveniently forget and are just focusing on avoiding virus yourself

While I fully support faulting politicians on their bs, I feel it is also important to note they would not spew it if people weren't so willing to eat.

tneva82 wrote:
Politics also are using wrong arqument in their goal to discredit mask. "doesn't protect you from catching it". Duh. Point is to prevent you from infecting others. Part they conveniently forget and are just focusing on avoiding virus yourself

It's not the wrong argument if it fit's what they want. They aren't forgetting anything.

Part of the issue is likely General Public confusing multiple precautions with being either/or

Example. Washing your hands is the simplest way to reduce your risk.

Gloves are another. But should not replace hand washing, not should be worn for extended periods as that’s not the intent behind them.

Hand sanitiser is likewise, broadly speaking, a more practical alternative to hand washing when out and about. But if you get the opportunity to have a proper scrub, take it!

All masks are not equal. Some are known to just not be up to the job. And just wearing a bandana across your mush isn’t really doing anything.

And even if you do have a suitable mask and gloves? They do not replace social distancing.

We need to be doing as many of these things as possible to reduce those risks as much as possible.

Some folk just aren’t getting it at all. Solid example? Pub near me is doing take away beer. And, for now, allow use of their lavvy. Once I’ve had my wee, I wash my hands for 30 seconds, including my wrists, and use the hand drier. Other patrons? I’m not hearing the (very loud, very obvious) hand drier.....which means at least some if not all such patrons remain Filth Wizards, and a walking biohazard. I mean it’s foul enough without a pandemic. And means I’m genuinely surprised my town has one of the lowest infection rates in the country!

Other things I see people do? Handling items in the supermarket, and putting them back on the shelf. Especially when it comes to fresh fruit and veg, maybe just look with your eyes? No, that you’re wearing gloves doesn’t make a difference here, as the virus can sit quite happily atop that latex, waiting to be transferred.

Sometimes you have to touch fruit and veg though. My daughter likes mangoes for breakfast, and they require touching to determine ripeness and hence whether she will eat them or not. Now in theory this is negated by the fact that you wash the items when you get home before putting them in the fridge.

But then I'm apparently a selfish POS for merely walking past people in the supermarket, so I'm sure I'm wrong here too.

If it’ll ripen in the supermarket, it’ll ripen at home?

I imagine the nitrile glove price gouging racket is going to be doing a roaring trade.

I looked the other day for myself and my mother. £1 a pair was the lowest price I could find. If you're going out once a day, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month, well I'm sure we all can do the math.

Are many now going to be able to afford that extra expense? But one would assume they are the best possible protection for your hands?

The hand sanitizer racket is just as bad.

Luckily I bought a "face covering" for myself, and one for my mother, a couple of weeks ago, imagine that racket is going to do a roaring trade as well...


As someone who is "at high risk", only told to shield on May 11th - 6-7 weeks into lockdown, it feels like, yet again, we're being advised on something, that there has been no preparation for, either nationally or locally, to ensure people don't end up in a compromised position, especially people who were vulnerable in general before this all kicked off.

It's "this is the advice, go and get on with it".

Many of the proper masks are restricted for sale anyway. I believe Amazon already restricts them to medical staff only. So sometimes even if you do know the right thing to do you can't get hold of the right tools

Suggesting the general public understand nuance is apparently unreasonable, especially these days. US culture in particular likes to promote black-and-white worldviews which bleeds into other areas shockingly well.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Sometimes you have to touch fruit and veg though. My daughter likes mangoes for breakfast, and they require touching to determine ripeness and hence whether she will eat them or not. Now in theory this is negated by the fact that you wash the items when you get home before putting them in the fridge.

But then I'm apparently a selfish POS for merely walking past people in the supermarket, so I'm sure I'm wrong here too.

On the former, ideally you are washing all of your fruit and vegetables really, coronavirus or not - so I agree with you there. Is there pesticide on it? Animal feces? Stuff grown in dirt makes contact with stuff that is dirty. I wash anything like that except bananas and like, oranges, and probably I should be rinsing those too.

On the latter, I think there was tons of good evidence ITT, so we don't need to pick one specific piece to mischaracterize.

Well you should've seen my supermarket on Friday mate. Selfish POS everywhere, just walking past each other, reckless abandon. everyone doing it.. I couldn't believe my eyes.

A certain amount of 'good faith' is necessary in order to actually have a decent conversation.

Anyway, retail is finally opening back up in Massachusetts starting tomorrow.

Masks, 6 ft distance, etc. still required, as well as max occupancy limits as well.

Will be interesting to see how it works out - looking forward to getting into my local game store and buying some stuff to help support them!

Here restrictions have been lifted a bit so flgs opened gaming room but not much use. In first week in 3 days 2 40k table, 1 aos and 1 lotr table used. No idea on rest of 3 days if rpg/card games were any more active(incidentally card gamers could be pushing current no over 50 people group restrictions. Before 50 or so mtg tournaments were held. Miniatures 6 tables is about max. Maybe 7. No wonder ccg are cash makers).

Good example of how removing restrictions doesn't quarantee customers come. Good thing for store opening gaming room doesn't really add expenses more than when it was closed

 Alpharius wrote:
A certain amount of 'good faith' is necessary in order to actually have a decent conversation.

Ain't that the truth.

Anywho, I'm just waiting for this voluntary experiment undertaken by members of the public over the past week to yield its conclusions. Safe to say if there are no spikes, I will feel somewhat vindicated regarding outdoor activity. It remains to be seen.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
A certain amount of 'good faith' is necessary in order to actually have a decent conversation.

Ain't that the truth.

Explains a lot about this thread, doesn't it.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases?country=CHE~GBR

Well, we have some what stalled, double digit numbers in fresh infections, Uk has a wierd daily report of cases though

NZ's last patient has recovered and we are now officially Corona free, at least until we reopen our borders.

 ingtaer wrote:
NZ's last patient has recovered and we are now officially Corona free, at least until we reopen our borders.

That's really good news

 ingtaer wrote:
NZ's last patient has recovered and we are now officially Corona free, at least until we reopen our borders.

I read that earlier, congratulations!

I just wish we'd had the same level of the organisation, competence and grit from our own Govt, at this rate we'll still be dealing with this well into next year.

 Alpharius wrote:
A certain amount of 'good faith' is necessary in order to actually have a decent conversation.

It is yes. Maybe one day we’ll find some here on Dakka. But I wouldn’t get too hopeful.

New Zealand needs to do the same as Hong Kong. All arrivals are screened for the virus at the airport and have to download the virus tracking app. They have to wait eight hours for their test to come back. If they are infected they go into isolation. If not, they have to use the app so they can be tracked in case of infection same as Korea.

Second day with no coronavirus deaths in Scotland - though there's a weekend lull in registrations so in reality this means no deaths in hospitals, there will probably be some from care homes and the community registered today.

Sturgeon indicating they expect to move to Phase 2 a week on Thursday.

Even accounting for the weekend lull that's impressive and very encouraging data! UK as a total still gets over 100 deaths even on a weekend day (77 Sunday and just over 200 on Saturday).

:Looking at the global https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I'm figuring that Brazil looks like their stats are still climbing up. I think they are fast going to overtake the UK in terms of the worst performance - at least based on the current official numbers. That said Russia appears to be getting a very high case load and yet surprisingly fewer deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/russia/

If you look at the tick box for the 7 day average the daily new cases is worrying; they've not beaten the curve they appear to be flatlining at a high daily rate. Either their deaths aren't yet entering the system or its cooking the books. Either way I'd imagine Russia and Brazil to both overtake the UK in death rates (Brazil almost for certain - Russia very likely when you consider their climate and economy).

Overread, i think iran will probably also be high up

 ingtaer wrote:
NZ's last patient has recovered and we are now officially Corona free, at least until we reopen our borders.

I read an interesting article about how many super-rich people have prepared Mega-Bunkers o' Protection for themselves down in NZ, but the problem is if they don't make the decision to get there soon enough during a crisis, they'll get shut out when NZ invariably closes their borders...