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With the decrease in actual cost of the new wraithguard models combined with the look of those new sculpts, my mate has prompted me to get our Ultwe force together. We've already got a few older WG and may have a few more later today(auctions and all that.) so I've started to get a rough idea of what I need. We actually already had a small force of eldar lying around the house that doesn't get used so might as well. Besides, I actually enjoy painting eldar. Seems that I'm never painting more than a handful of the same unit. That's good for my painting adhd

She REALLY wants a wraithknight. Cool model so sure why not? But for actual use I just can't see how it's effective. Sure it's somewhat sturdy but it's hard to hide. It has access to some decent weapon options but so do two WL which I can get for the same points?

Is anyone actually using these? What loadouts do you use? My favorite so far is the suncannon but it's just so dang expensive for a list that is loaded with expensive units.(WG in WSs anyone?)

Slightly off topic: Any reccomendations for the army? Anything goes for the most part. I've got DA, Reapers and swoops already painted up but not looking to use them. Thinking about 3 squads of WG(with or without WS, not sure yet.)and 2 WLs so far. I like the idea of warp spiders to harrass light tanks and the such. Maybe some scorpions to keep the enemy tied up until the guard get there? Looking at 1500pts or 1850pts max

I have used the Wraithknight twice. It is a psychological weapon and occationally quite effective.

People are scared of big monsters, and the Wraithknight is really, really big.

With a Suncannon, Scattershield and Scatter Laser it has the potential to level a squad in a single volley of fire. I have used it a couple of games and it always made it's 300 points back. In a game earlier today it saved a wound with it's invul save and blinded a TH/SS squad, an Ironclad Dread and a Tactical Squad all going to assault it. They all failed their hits because of the blind and the Wraithknight murdered them. It was hilarious.

That's the exact loadout I was thinking about. It really seems like the suncannon is the only way to go.

Gifblaur wrote:
That's the exact loadout I was thinking about. It really seems like the suncannon is the only way to go.

It is. If you are going to get such an expensive model in game, you might aswell kit it out to be efficient.

The problem is just how expensive that loadout is. But that fear factor is something that might make the wraithknight fun. Let someone over react and waste shots. Leaves the rest of the army to send them into the warp.

So far I like 3 groups of WG in serpets. One group has the sycthes the other two have wraithcannons. I don't have the supplement but may try out a footlist. Right now the serpents get them there just fine, not sure the run/shoot is enough of a boost.

My Wraithknight does pretty well. He's only died once, and that's because a tricksy Tau player sacrificed all his Kroot to infiltrate and snipe it to death, using all their markerlights. Suncannon and scatterlaser does seem to be the best load out, though I could see the default loadout being pretty good too.

Like the above poster, I run 2x5 squads of Wraithguard and 5 D-Scythe guard all in Wave Serpents and it's brutal. I take two Wraithlords and a Wraithfighter for support as well, it all works pretty well together.

There was this thread in Tactics where people talk about it at length: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/533124.page

I don't like the suncannon. The codex has enough S6 already and it's just not that impressive against power armor for the points. For a third of the points you get an artillery unit with T7 and many more wounds which can put out 3 S6 (sometimes S7) blasts with all of the benefits of the barrage rule. That much cheaper artillery unit will get a similar number of hits (WK reroll vs barrage), will deny many cover saves, and at least 1/5 of its wounds will also be AP2 (higher percentage vs T5+). It doesn't blind on hit, but if it inflicts at least one wound it forces a pinning check, which is generally better than blind in that it entirely prevents movement and assault. Against I4 Ld8, the odds of failing either test are pretty close. You only need to find 30 points in your list to take a naked WK plus artillery instead of that suncannon, slots allowing. If you simply must have blind, just take a ~100pt Hawk squad with a sunrifle. You can almost afford three of them for what the WK costs.

And the WK's basic weapons are great. They've got the anti-tank punch of two Fire Prisms, can ID T5 reliably and everything unreliably, and the model has the movement and weapon range to be a threat to everything on the field. It's a mistake to look at its guns and say that you could get the same firepower on two wraithguard for a fraction of the cost - the range is a huge deal. Take Tau allies and use him like a super-Hammerhead - with markerlight support he's practically popping a tank each turn, cover or no. Or just toss a Guide/Prescience on him for a 33% boost (one of these also helps if he charges into CC, but these are wasted on the scatter laser loadout).

The only real advantage of the suncannon loadout is the invulnerable save. In shooting this isn't a big deal since 5+ cover is easy to come by, but in assault it can help a bit. But, really, against the sorts of things he should be charging it's not going to make a big difference, and the things he shouldn't be charging are either not going to have AP3 anyway or are going to shred him even with the 5++.

i havent faced it but i see it doing the same thing as the Tau Riptide - potentially awesome, on average meh but one hell of a distraction. Ive won games solely because they wanted to make "da big boy fall" whether he was doing anything or not. A nid player insisted on getting a Swarmlord to crush it....ironically in that game i wiffed almost every single shot/nova charge so he wasnt even doing anything. Hes not a bad player either, just for some reason REALLY wanted to slice its tiny ankles off.

I used one for the first time last night, it basically killed a squad a turn. It's horrifically expensive but pretty fun to use.

Im planning on using a barebones wraithknight in my foot wraith list. The long range anti-tank and mobility it brings is pretty useful.

I think bare-bones Wraithknight would be the way to go. There is no shortage of anti-elite infantry in the Eldar Codex, so the Suncannon seems a waste. Str. 10 is comparatively rarer.

As said, it'll do about the damage that 2 Fire Prisms will do, and that is nothing to scoff at. However, you also can get 2 Fire Prisms for the same price, and if you have those models already, getting a Wraithknight doesn't really bring anything hugely amazing to the table.

I think the Riptide simply has more utility. You can equip him with vehicle upgrades, which you cannot do with the Wraithknight. It simply gives you more customization to make it what you need to do.

With the Riptide, you can build almost any Tau List, and add a Riptide to do what you still lack in the list. With the Wraithknight, you more or less need to start with the Wraithknight, and build a list that supports it without making it redundant.

There are a few things I've learned from gaming with it. First it is very expensive with the Suncannon/Scatterfield/Scatterlaser config. That is the way I've run it and can't really say how the others perform. However, in a local RTT, the Suncannon never missed out of three games. But, cover saves are fairly easy to get, so some food for thought. Something that I didn't really consider until I actually was using it in game was its assault capability. As long as you don't go after big tarpits (Fearless or Stubborn units), it has a good number of attacks and a simple Prescience cast on it is really good. It caught folks offguard because it is Jump. Also, IIRC, b/c it is a Monstrous Creature, it is immune to Dangerous Terrain tests (not a big deal if not, however). There are a lot of units that can't even hurt it. You can get 2-4 kills with it, break a unit and sweep as the WK as Initiative 5.

On the downside, one of my opponents cast Misfortune on it and I lost 5 wounds in a single shooting phase, which destroyed it. This is definitely an ability for me to respect, especially when facing a very shooty army. Losing a 300 point unit in basically a single turn hurts.

Overall, I don't quite think it is worth 300 points, but do think it is worth taking. I think I should be paying around 250 for it, and am ok paying 50 points more than what I think it should.

It is also really cool to build and paint and I highly recommend it for those who enjoy that aspect of the hobby.

Okay, My one time playing against a wraithknight went like this:

I was playing tau, had a support commander with a unit of railsides. Commander gave up his shooting to give the unit ignore cover, and pure tide emulator to get monster hunter, and drone controler gave my 6 missile drones BS 5.

Turn 1: Broadside unit reduced it to 2 wounds, on his turn the wraithknight killed all the drones and broadsides, but left the commander alive.

Turn 2: Firewarriors came up and dropped out of devilfish, commander managed to join them to give that unit monster hunter and finished off the wraithknight:

I still lost the game: but it was very close.

Ralis wrote:
Okay, My one time playing against a wraithknight went like this:

I was playing tau, had a support commander with a unit of railsides. Commander gave up his shooting to give the unit ignore cover, and pure tide emulator to get monster hunter, and drone controler gave my 6 missile drones BS 5.

Turn 1: Broadside unit reduced it to 2 wounds, on his turn the wraithknight killed all the drones and broadsides, but left the commander alive.

Turn 2: Firewarriors came up and dropped out of devilfish, commander managed to join them to give that unit monster hunter and finished off the wraithknight:

I still lost the game: but it was very close.

Incidentally, I found this out the other day, but Drone Controllers do not work on Missile Drones. You should probably apologize to your opponent.

I never thought I'd see the day a T8 W6 3+sv Jump MC sporting 4 attacks and two S10 AP2 36" guns for less than the cost of a Land Raider would be considered a "bad" unit

Granted its upgrade options are oddly (and greatly) overpriced, but the base configuration is solid.

Saturday's Apocalypse game was the first time I saw one.

Very impressive model and stat line, but I don't think it made it's points back before dying.

The Blind rule that it deals out when it makes a successful invulnerable save was funny as hell, though.

used mine with 2 hvy wraith cannons and 2 scatter lazers great against imp tanks 1 game managed to kill 3 tauros venators 3 hvy weapon squads and a russ and mangle a fe winfantry squads here and there so will stick with the knight for kool ness factor alone

bit81 wrote:
used mine with 2 hvy wraith cannons and 2 scatter lazers great against imp tanks 1 game managed to kill 3 tauros venators 3 hvy weapon squads and a russ and mangle a fe winfantry squads here and there so will stick with the knight for kool ness factor alone

Not sure why you would field it this way as it can only fire two weapons a turn.

archamedius wrote:

Incidentally, I found this out the other day, but Drone Controllers do not work on Missile Drones. You should probably apologize to your opponent.

Oh? Where does it say this?

EDIT: Okay I checked the codex, apparently drone controller lists specific drones that benefit from it. (( Gundrones, marker drones, and sniper (might be shield) ))

This does just seem like an oversight in the codes to me though..

I'd agree with you, but it spells out the drones it works on. Why not just leave it at all drones if they wanted to include missile drones?

Remember, T8 is nothing to sneeze at.

Many of the weapons commonly used to kill big monsters will only wound it on 5s or 4s at best. Autocannons, Plasma, and Missile launchers will have trouble. Especially if it gets a save against them.

Just watch out for Str10 melee attacks.

For a while, I was pretty much in the "No-take" camp, but Then I actually started using it.

It's actually, really good, in it's base configuration.

I'm never suprised at the amount of T5 Targets without EW it has available, it's also pretty good in close combat. You don't really need to hide it either. Just stick it's foot in Terrain, and you have a 5+ cover save.

So far, it hasn't died in any of my games that I've used it in. You just have to mix the Wraithcannon shooting and assault when you need it.

Remember, it gets a strength 10 HOW attack, even if it doesn't have an AP, that's a pretty good way to start out a cc.

While Ancedotal, last game my WK killed Three Oblits, 3 Termies, and a squad of Noise Marines. It more than made back it's points, and only took 3W in the process.

With the Iyanden supplement, you can make it your Warlord, and benefit from the Warlord trait table therein. The WK benefits a great amount from most of the traits.

I think overtime, you'll start to see them used more often. On paper, they are pretty off-putting, at first. Once you use them effectively though, you'll be pretty surprised. It's a lot harder to take them down than you think, and their firepower+assault is quite good.

Isn't there a way to heal it as well?

T8 with 6 wounds that can heal is twice as nasty.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Isn't there a way to heal it as well?

T8 with 6 wounds that can heal is twice as nasty.

There are a few ways to heal it. Renewer, and a Stone that heals on a 3+.

Pretty much never giving up Slay the Warlord with that.

sasori changed his tune?!?!

in that other threat you were almost screaming bloody murder on how bad they are! (I COULD be over exaggerating a bit)

I am trying to think of a reason not to take 2 in my iyanden, being able to heal them makes them so enticing!

Farseer - guide one wraith knight, prescience the other!

4x seers one with healing stone, one with helm that does 100% LOS and wraiths can challenge, one with the helm for warp charge reduction

8 psychic rolls bound to get 1-2 renewals to go with healing stone

wraithknight

wraithknight

10 wraithguard with dcannons - seers go here obviously hoping for 2+ armor!

5 wraithguard in serpent with scatterlaser and holo

5 wraithguard in serpent with scatterlaser and holo

Theorius wrote:
sasori changed his tune?!?!

in that other threat you were almost screaming bloody murder on how bad they are! (I COULD be over exaggerating a bit)

I am trying to think of a reason not to take 2 in my iyanden, being able to heal them makes them so enticing!

Farseer - guide one wraith knight, prescience the other!

4x seers one with healing stone, one with helm that does 100% LOS and wraiths can challenge, one with the helm for warp charge reduction

8 psychic rolls bound to get 1-2 renewals to go with healing stone

wraithknight

wraithknight

10 wraithguard with dcannons - seers go here obviously hoping for 2+ armor!

5 wraithguard in serpent with scatterlaser and holo

5 wraithguard in serpent with scatterlaser and holo

Bloody Murder, was on Wraithlords, which are still objectively the worst thing in our heavy support slot.


I did feel that the Wraith Knight was not that good on paper. A few games later, it really changed my mind. It had made well over it's points back in every game. As long as you don't get it locked in something like a Boyz squad, or TH/SS it will generally massacre whatever it is up against.

Granted, I haven't fought any matchups where a WK would be subpar (Greentide comes to mind) I look forward to continuing to use it.

After playing around a bit I think I've come to like it. And it isn't because he is particularly awesome but he creates panic. enemy will leave the serpents alone in order to take out big baddie and his little brothers.

Loadout is still really in the air for me. With str 10 on my basic troops and an overall lack of vehicles in my meta, I just don't see the basic loadout AS useful. Suncannon and laser is pretty funny though. My necron buddy doesn't like it too much at all.

I haven't read much on the supplement but healing my knight would make it even scarier to people I imagine.

Ralis wrote:

archamedius wrote:

Incidentally, I found this out the other day, but Drone Controllers do not work on Missile Drones. You should probably apologize to your opponent.

Oh? Where does it say this?

EDIT: Okay I checked the codex, apparently drone controller lists specific drones that benefit from it. (( Gundrones, marker drones, and sniper (might be shield) ))

This does just seem like an oversight in the codes to me though..

There's plent yof stuff in codices that look like oversights - that doesn't mean you can just ignore them.

My DE heartly approve of people bringing more Wraithknights, or any wraith unit for that matter....

On paper I am not impressed by the WK.

It just seems really expensive to upgrade it, although the basic loadout of effectively 2 48" range s10 ap2 guns with potential ID could be useful.

I guess I will have to playtest the beasty sometime before I can form a proper opinion of it.