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2020/03/17 08:57:15
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
One question about that list with the tyrannocyte. Wouldn´t be better have the Swarmlord in it?
He can be assured to have a charge and Stealers will anyway either reached the screens, either been dead by then.
Also for 1 CP that Exocrine can move out of cover and shoot pretty effectively.
2020/03/17 10:29:18
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Emicrania wrote: One question about that list with the tyrannocyte. Wouldn´t be better have the Swarmlord in it?
He can be assured to have a charge and Stealers will anyway either reached the screens, either been dead by then.
Also for 1 CP that Exocrine can move out of cover and shoot pretty effectively.
It did have Swarmlord.
2020/03/17 11:49:21
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The list used the Biosphere Consumption custom trait ability in two of its detachments which I found remarkably interesting given that it has generally been viewed as one of the weaker picks due to all of the conditions required to get it to work. Also they had no Kraken detachments which was surprising given their toolbox.
2020/03/18 21:57:26
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The list used the Biosphere Consumption custom trait ability in two of its detachments which I found remarkably interesting given that it has generally been viewed as one of the weaker picks due to all of the conditions required to get it to work. Also they had no Kraken detachments which was surprising given their toolbox.
Only one <Monster> in one detachment (Malanthrope, not likely to be losing a lot of wounds early enough to see a benefit unless sniped), three <Monster> units in the other, one of them is a Mawloc which wouldn't benefit until T3 at the earliest unless deployed on table and the other two are Flyrants who, presumably, are usually going to be in motion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/18 21:58:00
2020/03/18 23:58:17
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
One possibility; I've found that marine snipers now have the ability to take a malanthrope off the table in a single turn of fire, if barely. Perhaps he was trying to mitigate that?
Overall, though, my suspicion is that he placed where he placed by means of good solid play rather than because of that choice of custom hive fleet.
For the greater glory of the Zoat Empire!
2020/03/19 20:57:17
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Verthane wrote: One possibility; I've found that marine snipers now have the ability to take a malanthrope off the table in a single turn of fire, if barely. Perhaps he was trying to mitigate that?
Overall, though, my suspicion is that he placed where he placed by means of good solid play rather than because of that choice of custom hive fleet.
Honestly my suspicion is that its a typo when the player was writing the list up... as the Prime is in one battalion and the Warriors another! So I think both might have been meant to be the same as the second batt for extra durability.
2020/03/23 15:51:34
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So I reallized today that if I swap out some guns, I have the models to put 18 Hive Guard and 18 Warriors on the table. I'm thinking Kronos Battalion with Neuros and Hive Guard plus at Jorg Battalion with Primes, Warriors, and a Malenthrope. Fill in the gaps with Rippers, or maybe some breed of 'gant. Not having exploding super Exocrines is sad, but exploding 6's on double shooting Hive Guard isn't bad at all. Has anyone tried anything like it?
2020/03/23 20:23:27
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
babelfish wrote: So I reallized today that if I swap out some guns, I have the models to put 18 Hive Guard and 18 Warriors on the table. I'm thinking Kronos Battalion with Neuros and Hive Guard plus at Jorg Battalion with Primes, Warriors, and a Malenthrope. Fill in the gaps with Rippers, or maybe some breed of 'gant. Not having exploding super Exocrines is sad, but exploding 6's on double shooting Hive Guard isn't bad at all. Has anyone tried anything like it?
Statistically you should get the same number of bonus shots from a double shooting hive guard with exploding 6's (24 shots, exploding on 6) as you would an exocrine (12 shots, exploding on 5+).
But one of those costs 2cp, and hive guard have reduced output the more dmg they take. So it's a mixed bag.
I'd almost call it a strategic wash, but a tactical mountain in terms of difference. (We could armchair him and haw of one vs another, but much will come down to how you use them)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/23 20:25:36
2020/03/23 20:33:15
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
babelfish wrote: So I reallized today that if I swap out some guns, I have the models to put 18 Hive Guard and 18 Warriors on the table. I'm thinking Kronos Battalion with Neuros and Hive Guard plus at Jorg Battalion with Primes, Warriors, and a Malenthrope. Fill in the gaps with Rippers, or maybe some breed of 'gant. Not having exploding super Exocrines is sad, but exploding 6's on double shooting Hive Guard isn't bad at all. Has anyone tried anything like it?
Statistically you should get the same number of bonus shots from a double shooting hive guard with exploding 6's (24 shots, exploding on 6) as you would an exocrine (12 shots, exploding on 5+).
But one of those costs 2cp, and hive guard have reduced output the more dmg they take. So it's a mixed bag.
I'd almost call it a strategic wash, but a tactical mountain in terms of difference. (We could armchair him and haw of one vs another, but much will come down to how you use them)
Yeah, its an interesting trade off. Hive Guard do get the option to shoot at a different target with the second set (technically the Exocrine could, but by and large all those shots are going into the same target), so less potential for wasting shots with overkill, but still 2 cp.
Hive Guard sit in the same target profile as Warriors do, but you don't really get any benefit from that because both anti-infantry and anti-tank guns are happy to shoot at them. I've been playing with lists, and if I tweek the force org around I can fit in a GSC battalion of laser neophytes. The ignore heavy weapons creed + the bike sniper aura lets them act as las cannon armed deep striking Scions, adds an interesting element to the build.
2020/03/28 19:35:16
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So I have two lists I am interested in playing around with. One uses shrikes, which are currently legal (not legends, but still index options, which either means GW forgot to index them, or they plan on bringing them back).
They both have simillar mechanics, the only real difference is one is about controlling mid field with warriors, and the other more about swarming and overwhelming the enemy.
In this first list Swarm and Overwhelm I want to be able to have the option of slinging the stealers hormagants or shrikes on turn 1, all of which would serve a different purpose depending on the army I'm fighting. If I'm going against guard and really want to get in there and cripple the backline I may even give the shrikes unnatural resistances. Would like your thoughts.
Second one is Command and Control. Still a sling base, but built over a sturdier framework of Warriors who can help hold midfield objectives, and clear screens at range. Would likely give them or hive guard the unnatural resistances adaptation.
I am hesitant to build anything using any FW options right now because I do not know what GW will do with them. With the investment involved it would suck to get something running only for it to go legends next year. There is no certainty at this point in time. Hopefully GW will address that because it certainly prevents me from buying any FW.
I do not have enough experience to consider myself particularly qualified, but it seems to me like adrenal glands on your genestealers would help a good amount. An extra 2" to their threat range would be pretty useful IMO. Your second list seems like it would seriously benefit from slipping a squad of venomthropes in
NinthMusketeer wrote: I do not have enough experience to consider myself particularly qualified, but it seems to me like adrenal glands on your genestealers would help a good amount. An extra 2" to their threat range would be pretty useful IMO. Your second list seems like it would seriously benefit from slipping a squad of venomthropes in
Genestealers DO NOT have acces to AGs
2020/03/29 20:47:57
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So I have two lists I am interested in playing around with. One uses shrikes, which are currently legal (not legends, but still index options, which either means GW forgot to index them, or they plan on bringing them back).
They both have simillar mechanics, the only real difference is one is about controlling mid field with warriors, and the other more about swarming and overwhelming the enemy.
In this first list Swarm and Overwhelm I want to be able to have the option of slinging the stealers hormagants or shrikes on turn 1, all of which would serve a different purpose depending on the army I'm fighting. If I'm going against guard and really want to get in there and cripple the backline I may even give the shrikes unnatural resistances. Would like your thoughts.
Second one is Command and Control. Still a sling base, but built over a sturdier framework of Warriors who can help hold midfield objectives, and clear screens at range. Would likely give them or hive guard the unnatural resistances adaptation.
Your first list is solid enough, given the precondition that you want to run Shrikes.
I haven't looked at Shrikes in some time. If I remember correctly, they have the same weapon options for the same costs as Warriors do. On that assumption, I recommend duel boneswords + deathspitters. The extra attack from having two boneswords comes in useful farm more often than the hit if slain ability from the lash whips. Lash whips are only useful if you expect to be charged by something that can kill them, but that they can meaningfully hurt in return. By and large the shrikes should be the ones charging, not getting charged.
You may want to consider swapping the Broodlord and the Venomthropes for a second Malanthrope. That will free up some points to fill in the 'stealer squads and adjust the load outs on the Shrikes.
The first list I also like. I assume the detachment with the 'stealers is intended to be Kraken. The bonus from the Prime is hive fleet locked, so you need to swap the Kraken Warriors to the Kronos detachment and bring a set of Rippers down to the Kraken detachment. Again, I like boneswords + deathspitters + stranglethorn cannons for Warriors.I find that venom cannons don't really do enough damage to be a threat on their own. You already have decent amounts of S7 and S8, the two venom cannons are not going to add much to the list. Stranglethorn cannons synergize really well with deathspitters. Both weapons like to shoot a similar targets, the d6 shots can spike in a nice way, and the 36" range can let you plink meaningfully at squads you don't want to waste and Exocrine on early in the game. I would drop a single Warrior from the smaller unit, swap venom cannons for stranglethorns, and use those points to either get boneswords or more 'stealers.
I think the ignores -1 and -2 AP adaption on both Warrior units would be the best adaption to run. Hive Guard should be safely hidden for at least a few turns, so the extra durability is wasted on them.
Overall I like were you are going with the builds.
2020/04/01 02:49:46
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So I have two lists I am interested in playing around with. One uses shrikes, which are currently legal (not legends, but still index options, which either means GW forgot to index them, or they plan on bringing them back).
They both have simillar mechanics, the only real difference is one is about controlling mid field with warriors, and the other more about swarming and overwhelming the enemy.
[…]
Thoughts?
Just as a thought, but have you perhaps considered doing an skyswarm list? If you are bringing Shrikes anyway you could perhaps double down with some Gargoyle swarms for fast screens/tarpits and maybe a Harpy or two (gives fire support, more mortal wound potential, and extra turn-1 chargers).
I do like both lists already presented and have to echo more or less what babelfish said, though I think I prefer the second one since it feels a bit better in the area of threat saturation (more redundancy, fewer "obvious" targets).
2020/04/01 22:59:07
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
babelfish wrote: So I reallized today that if I swap out some guns, I have the models to put 18 Hive Guard and 18 Warriors on the table. I'm thinking Kronos Battalion with Neuros and Hive Guard plus at Jorg Battalion with Primes, Warriors, and a Malenthrope. Fill in the gaps with Rippers, or maybe some breed of 'gant. Not having exploding super Exocrines is sad, but exploding 6's on double shooting Hive Guard isn't bad at all. Has anyone tried anything like it?
Statistically you should get the same number of bonus shots from a double shooting hive guard with exploding 6's (24 shots, exploding on 6) as you would an exocrine (12 shots, exploding on 5+).
But one of those costs 2cp, and hive guard have reduced output the more dmg they take. So it's a mixed bag.
I'd almost call it a strategic wash, but a tactical mountain in terms of difference. (We could armchair him and haw of one vs another, but much will come down to how you use them)
This is not accurate.
Assuming 6 stationary kronos hive guard with symbiostorm vs 1 stationary kronos exocrine with symbiostorm:
The hive guard average 23.333 hits while the exocrine averages 13.999 hits.
Spoiler:
Hive guard:
24 shots hitting on 3's: 16 hits
Bonus hits on 6's: 4 more hits
Rerolling 1's, hitting on 3's: 2.666 more hits
Rerolling 1's bonus hits on 6's: .666 more hits
Total: 23.333 hits average
Exocrine:
12 shots hitting on 3's: 8
Bonus hits on 5's: 4
Rerolling 1's, hitting on 3's: 1.333 more hits
Rerolling 1's, bonus hits on 5's: .666 more hits
Total: 13.999 hits
The tactical difference is that the hive guard ignore cover (so technically have AP-3 against targets in cover, same as exocrine), have a point higher in strength, and shoot out of LoS. Exocrines on the other hand have more reliable damage output versus 2W targets like primaris, can move 6" and still shoot at full effectiveness, and doesn't lose volume of fire until all the wounds are gone. Hive guard put out MUCH more dakka than exocrines on turn 1.
EDIT: You would be accurate if you were referring to the TOTAL number of bonus hits gained, which for both would be 4.666 bonus hits per squad, but I believe you were referring to total hits overall in which hive guard hit much more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/01 23:01:25
2020/04/01 23:06:37
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So, given that I cannot try it out myself given coronavirus...
Has anyone tried the 2+ save (vs shooting) genestealer combo? Though clearly not an optimized loadout it seems like it would viable enough for fun games.
On a similar note, how about AP -2 hormagaunt custom fleet?
NinthMusketeer wrote: So, given that I cannot try it out myself given coronavirus...
Has anyone tried the 2+ save (vs shooting) genestealer combo? Though clearly not an optimized loadout it seems like it would viable enough for fun games.
On a similar note, how about AP -2 hormagaunt custom fleet?
If I were to play a Hormagaunts hive fleet (hoping they get somehow reduced to 4 pts which is the correct cost for them since ever), I'd go with 6++ and AP-1 on Scything talons since you can already get for a unit AP-2 via a 1 CP Stratagem for them and the increased melee AP by 1 is linked to having MORE models than your enemy in close combat, which is not assured at all considering that aside from Gretchins gants have the worst profile in the game as a 5 PPM T3 6+
2020/04/04 23:59:23
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
A stratagem would help, but using your Onslaught cast upon them is not a bad idea. My number one use for Hormagants has always been fling a unit of them up the screen turn one with kraken strat and Onslaught. Swarmy if you have it though it may Ben a waste of his points. Give them AG and they outspeed Genestealers and pile in further. A unit of 20 or less is large enough to tag up anything you want and potentially even get a wrap, but cheap enough that you didn’t even give a damn if it dies. Ideally just use a cheap tool to force fallbacks/cause disruption and lower the amount of damage you take in the opening salvo. I also was running a dakka heavy build which helped clear the screens though so it might not be guaranteed - but even in the later turns, a squad of Horms covers ground quickly and can be a great disruption unit.
I think Horms are pretty good in this role. Spamming bodies? Errr that’s a job Termagants will always do better imo. And trying to kill gak with Horms? I just don’t see it happening. Even with AP2 you need so many in base to base just to get enough dice to start chipping things down... I think you’re just playing a list of Ork Boys except much, much worse basically
2020/04/05 03:09:20
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
NinthMusketeer wrote: With 4 ranks attacking and a 6" pile-in I do not see how getting them in range to attack is a problem, once they have made the charge.
I mean even giving you the benefit of the doubt on this first squad, I'm talking about spamming them. You're just not gonna be able to apply significant damage across the board.
