Genestealer Game 4: 40k Leagues Under the Sea

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**shas'o vera**

well, my best suspitisions (sorry, cant spell) are still with Arheiner but he hasn't really said anything this day, son untill that time.

**BishopGore**

I went back through 15 pages of posts making notes in notepad, then I got a phone call and when I came back my computer had rebooted itself. Somehow. Usually I remember to save, but not this time. So I've lost all the quotes I was going to post up and now I'm trying to remember my reasons why Thor is still my number one suspect with Fifty as my suspected partner.

Thor's main activity this game has been to keep people talking. More occasions than I can count he has brought the thread back on track, prodded people to give their thoughts. But I felt there were also steering currents in his posts. The people he put at the top of his list were hit sometimes, but usually Thor would be throwing doubts on specific others out who usually did end up going down. The people who've died each night have been either nobody's or people I would class as equally committed to furthering this thread as Thor is. Each death has led to Thor being more and more the most vocal member of the party left. I had a couple of quotes, but I can't remember where they were and I'm too annoyed to go back now and look.

The case against Fifty had a couple of key quotes I found, but without them it's not very convincing. it stems around the genstealer pair idea, there is no link between the two except in the empty spaces, they have voted opposite sides (or did until Ferrett, that may ruin the idea, but maybe not), they've disagreed a few times, but not in any way as to make people notice.

I realise that these comments are worthless without quotes as neither party can really defend themselves against such vague arguments, so I ask your leave for a couple more days to restore my desire to go back through the quagmire.

As to your suspicions Thor, I agree I have been a key voter in each case, but I have generally been firm in my stance, not swapping and changing to further any aim. Since the very beginning of the game it has been said that we must lynch each day to learn new things and further the aims of the town, yet now you use the fact that some of us have been involved in pro-town lynchs as suspicious. We have all been unlucky each day to be constantly striking down those who are Emperor-fearing and good, but that has been part of the design. The design to keep the game moving, since we have to reach the lynch value to lynch and if any abstained from voting or if a vote limit was not lynched people began urging others to move and make sure someone died. So using voting patterns of who voted for the one who happened to die seems a less than adequate way of finding a guilty party. This makes sense in my head, but not so much in typing.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this will be seen as retaliatory, but I honestly feel Thor may be the threat we must guard against.

Vote: Thor

**Thor665**

BishopGore wrote:using voting patterns of who voted for the one who happened to die seems a less than adequate way of finding a guilty party. This makes sense in my head, but not so much in typing.

I understand where you're coming from, but this is silly - let me break it down.

YES - it is absolutely pro-town to generate lynches pretty much everyday because lynches are the *only* way we'll kill scum (barring certain special roles that are irrelevant for this discussion) But, yeah, you need to lynch to kill town hence lynching is good and voting is good.

NO - it is not strange that suddenly I wish to explore the people who were consistent lynch voters. Why? Because scum need to vote too - and scum want to lynch town, not scum. Therefore it is highly likely that scum will vote to lynch and the chances of zero scum being present on a lynch wagon targeting an innocent town player is pretty darn minimal. Therefore, it stands to reason that if you look at voters who appear multiple times wanting to lynch town targets you do indeed come up with a list that is highly likely to contain scum. The only real question is whether both scum are on the wagon or only one, but the likelihood of zero? Highly unlikely.

Needless to say I disagree with your case on me but will await you pulling together your evidence before I show up with the battering ram and torches to rip it down. I'll agree that the worst Fifty and I ever really disagreed on was concerning his desire to lynch shas'o which I was never a particular fan of since I had a town read on shas. I also had a town read on Fifty and you. When you go back and look during your re-read I imagine you'll discover that I'm equally quiet about you, Lord-Loss, and shas as I am Fifty because I had pro-town reads throughout the bulk of the game on all four of you (I think Fifty and Lord-Loss were my specific call outs at the start of Day 2 as being very townish in my mind). Of course I scumhunt less on those I'm not suspicious of at the time, that's just basic sensible play.

**Thor665**

shas'o vera wrote:well, my best suspitisions (sorry, cant spell) are still with Arheiner but he hasn't really said anything this day, son untill that time.

Is there anyone you do not find suspicious?

Since most of the suspicion on Arhenier is because of his lurking how do you feel suspecting him since you've done a lot of lurking as well? (in other words - do you suspect him because of his lurking, and if not do you have any idea why you're suspecting him?)

**shas'o vera**

yes, i think that if he doesn't atleast try to participate, then he could have some kind of night phase ability maybe.

**Thor665**

The only possible night phase abilities left at this stage are an Imperial Assassin (who should have acted last night if he's around) and scum (there's also a possibility for a *very* poorly played NLA, but I think that we can safely rule that one out).

To sort of rephrase my earlier question - you have also lacked participation. By your own logic that suggests that you have a night phase ability. Why does your suspicion apply to Arheiner and not yourself? Couldn't Arheiner be not participating for the same reasons you aren't?

**shas'o vera**

thats very true Thor, and it could be, but judging by my ealier posts, do you think i could be capable of being put into the same class as Arheiner?

**Thor665**

Personally I do not because I had a town read on you earlier in the game and I haven't had that with Arheiner. That said, I have to be asking myself why it was I was left alive so long and a reasonable argument is that I was clearing scummy players so they left me around to keep clearing them - hence I am obligated to reassess my beliefs.

I do think it's a reasonable question of why you ding Arheiner for lack of participation considering your own lack of participation. If you're town then clearly you understand that sometimes town doesn't participate.

Do you have any reads (feelings) other then Arheiner at this moment? I wouldn't mind seeing a listing of all the players in the game in order from most to least scummy in your opinion.

**Fifty**

We've gone past the point of playing anything close to the chest. I've been pretty open about my top two or three choices all game, but that has only resulted in me lynching the wrong people. At least I am still alive, but frankly, with my voting record this game, and my failure to find the final 'stealer at the end of the last game, I am not sure that is such a great thing for a town victory...

1. Thor - Very surprised he isn't dead yet. Increasingly likely that he is a very very competent 'stealer. Either that or a vocal, but rubbish townie (much like myself, I realise). I have had a town read all game though, and would hate to be wrong.
2. DDRE - No particular scumtells. But... I have to wonder why I myself am still alive, as I have been quite vocal myself. Perhaps the people I have not pointed a finger at are therefore good candidates for 'stealery.
3. See previous.
4. Arheiner - Complete lack of interaction with the game seems more likely to me to make him a townie who simply doesn't care, as a 'stealer would not have been able to rely on Gornall not being around enough to chuck them out of the game.
5. Shas'o Vera - I still get a scum feeling here, but nothing he has done since my mega-post on him to make him seem any more scummy - it is all just more of the same. I do still feel that he has been using inexperience as an excuse to not say or do anything.

The other thing to consider is the voting patterns. DDRE and Bishopgore have both been on every single lynch so far, according to Thor's list. One of them, I can't remember which (Bishopgore?), is now voting for Thor... Has Thor finally got it right and drawn their ire?

I find myself in pretty much exactly the same situation as the last game - one of the last few townies, but with less and less idea about who are the 'stealers as time goes on.

I think I still support a no lynch vote, but I think I may be the only one, so I will probably have to vote this turn. People speaking out against what seems to give us the best chance of finding a 'stealer also worries me...

For now though... Vote: No lynch

**Fifty**

Hmmm... Thor has also been on every single lynch vote. I'll point out that I myself have only been on one lynch vote, as a way of encouraging the rest of town to trust me...

Shas has been on one, Arheiner on none...

(I mean trust me to be town, not trust me to be getting things correct, obviously, because I haven't been, unless Shas IS a 'stealer. which I am thinking now looks less likely... I'll stop wittering now.)

**Deff Dread red Edition**

(ooc: Sorry I haven't posted a lot guys. Had a busy week.)

Mmm... considering it now, and looking at the votes as Thor has put them, I can see how I look suspicious. Although, I know myself to be a townie. Perhaps a misguided one, yet none the less a townie. So anyway, getting back to who I find to be suspicious...

1)Thor-I'm surprised he lived this long. He has generally tried to steer the conversation his way, and mostly has been unsuccessful as such. So perhaps he is a townie, whom simply fits in well with the stealers needs or a stealer himself. Neither is good for us.

2)BishopGore-On every single lynch vote, and now voting for Thor. Perhaps a stealer, finally shoved into the spotlight. Yet, maybe this is a stealer ploy, one making himself more obvious while his accomplice(Thor) comes out the hero.

3)Arheiner-I've been highly suspicious of him the entire game. His lack of posts, coupled with his unhelpful manner though, now point me more toward a bored townie. At least for the time being.

4)Fifty and Shas-Not much to say about fifty or Shas really. They both have been giving me town vibes. Fifty has been generally helpful, and wants to catch the stealers. Perhaps, just a bit misguided.

Shas has also given me a town vibe, even though he doesn't post much. He is generally rational, yet never adds much to the conversation.

**BishopGore**

Since my posts, two people have come out to put Thor at the top of their suspicious list.

The scum pair of Thor and Shas'O seems laughable, Thor and Arheiner is a vague possibility, but it doesn't feel right, so I am inclined to believe that either Thor is innocent or else Fifty/DDRE is putting Thor at the top of their list to make him look less suspicious.

Because we're up against a very competent pair of scum, I have to think that anything I think of, they've thought of already and have not only bluffed, but double bluffed, triple bluffed and then added a little whipped cream and made a very fancy cake.

unvote: Thor

Vote: no lynch

The likelihood of us choosing the genestealer by chance is minimal. I will get those quotes together if I survive the night, but I think Thor is probably right, no lynch is the only way for us to secure the slightest possibility of a town win.

**Thor665**

I'm not sure what to think of BG's reversal there...eh, that said I agree with it (well, at least the parts in bold).

Vote: No lynch

The odds if tagging a Genestealer tomorrow are better and hopefully the night kill will narrow down certain available choices.

@BG - if you really think you have a case on me why wouldn't you want to present it prior to the Night Phase?

**Fifty**

Woah woah woah!

Thor is not at the top of my suspect list, he is just the person I spoke about first. People were in no particular order!

Sorry, with the benefit of hindsight, I realise how my post would have looked.

**Thor665**

It's not in order? Could you put it in order then?

**Fifty**

That is difficult, as it hinges of pairings, but I will do my best, then try to explain...

1) Bishop Gore. Presence on so many lynch votes is a big factor here. Sudden turn on Thor makes me suspicious too.
2a) IF Bishop Gore is a 'stealer, Arheiner or Shas is my choice for his partner, despite sharing his voting pattern with Thor and DDRE.
2b) If Bishop Gore is town, then I feel Thor is a stealer.
3) If Thor is a stealer, I think his partner is either Shas'o or DDRE. The potential Thor/DDRE alliance is based on sharing all of the same lynch votes.
4) Shas'o is moving down my list, but could still be a 'stealer with either Bishop Gore OR Thor.
5) I don't think Arheiner is a 'stealer. I just think he is a bored townie.

An outside bet would be Thor and Bishop Gore as the pair. I can imagine Thor is clever enough to suggest they get one or other killed so that the survivor looks innocent, but to save that tactic until the end of the game. Still seems high risk though...

**Thor665**

If Thor/DDRE is based on us being on the same votes then how come Thor/BishopGore is less likely? We've also been on the same lynches as well.

I guess I can see Thor/shas since I have been defending him for so much of the thread - but I did (and probably still do) have a pretty solid feeling town read on him. He just hasn't done anything that felt scummy and mostly just feels a little lost to me.

**Gornall**

Current Vote Count:

0- Thor
0- DDRE
0- Fifty
0- Arheiner
0- BishopGore
0- Shas O'vera
3- No Lynch.............(BishopGore, Thor, and Fifty)

With 6 Alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

I will be on the road again this week, but I should be checking on things each night.

**Fifty**

Thor665 wrote:If Thor/DDRE is based on us being on the same votes then how come Thor/BishopGore is less likely? We've also been on the same lynches as well.

I guess I can see Thor/shas since I have been defending him for so much of the thread - but I did (and probably still do) have a pretty solid feeling town read on him. He just hasn't done anything that felt scummy and mostly just feels a little lost to me.

I would not rule out a Thor/Bishop Gore combo, but the interactions between the two of you seem to have just the tiniest amount of needle in them. Not genuine nastiness or anything, just a little bit of niggliness that I don't think could be faked. Nothing I can pin down, just general tone.

Since my mega-post on Shas, I've seen little to think him more scummy, so my feelings on him are mixed. However, if he were your partner, I believe you are doing quite enough talking for the both of you, and his neutrality could easily be part of your plotting each night.

Like I said though, I can come up with about a thousand different scenarios, just like the last game. I struggle rather more with narrowing it down to one scenario.

To be honest, I do not think you are a 'stealer, Thor, but I won't rule it out 100%. You seem to be too competent at the game in general to be completely free of suspicion.

**Fifty**

Oh, and can we please have a bit more time to chat before we go to Night Phase? Let's hold off on using that last "no lynch" vote, aye?

**Fifty**

edit: Wrong thread, sorry...

**Thor665**

I'm not seeing much discussion happening, Fifty, do you have any particular topics you'd like to have aired at this point? If not I'm more for just doing the 'no lynch' and assessing our situation after the NK.

At that point we can start serious discussion of who the likely pairs are that are left and try to reason out who amongst them is a good lynch.

**Fifty**

Tbh, I don't think there is likely to be much more discussion after all. I agree and suggest we try and proceed to "no lynch" if anyone will take that step.

**Deff Dread red Edition**

Agreed, no useful discussion is happening, as such I will say...

Vote:No Lynch

**Gornall**

====================================
END OF DAY 3 STORY POST
====================================

An uneasy silence settles in over the group. With nothing productive gained today, everyone departs to their rooms knowing that tomorrow will hold the last chance for the loyalists survival... if they manage to survive the night.

====================================

Get your night actions to me before 1800 EST Friday. I may have limited connectivity, so be patient if I don't get everything posted right away.

**Gornall**

====================================
BEGINNING OF DAY 4 STORY POST
====================================

The dark figure slowly stalked his prey through the corridors, matching each step with his own. Days of careful planning, watching, and waiting were finally about to come to fruition. He had patiently waited for overconfidence to set in, allowing him to catch one of his targets alone where he could be safely dealt with. Now it was time to reveal that more than one evil stalked this tomb!

Fifty leaps out from the shadows, a jagged, makeshift shank in his hand, spinning his target to face him. With a quick, sure thrust, he burys the blade into the stomach of his unsuspecting victim. Rather than the green ichor he was expecting, the wound gushes bright red blood. As the body falls to the floor, Fifty realizes that Bishop Gore was a loyal Imperial Citizen. He only has time to think "Oh Shi..." as a blow from behind knocks him unconsious.

Fifty wakes to find himself tied up facing Arheiner and Shas'O, both of which are tied up to the far wall. Thor and DDRE both grin manically as they watch Fifty come to his senses. Thor says, "We're going to show you how to really instill fear in someone as you watch us slowly kill your "friends"... and know that we're saving something far worse for you."

Fifty was a Night Lords Aspirant
====================================

In case anyone hasn't figured it out, Fifty targeted Bishop Gore and the Stealers targetted Fifty.

THE GENESTEALERS WIN!

Let the Monday Morning Quarterbacking begin...

**Thor665**

Perfect win! I do the Genestealer dance of joy.

**the_ferrett**

"Thor couldn't be guilty at all"

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Totally knew it.

**Thor665**

Well I know you were getting suspicious Stynier - that's why we killed you deader then a doorknob before you could pollute the town with all your evil mumbo jumbo.

I'm actually surprised Fifty was a NLA - I didn't see that coming. The hiding trick was ballsy, shame it didn't pay off better for him.