Genestealer Game 4: 40k Leagues Under the Sea

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**Arheiner**

What does anyone have to go by at that early stage, it's best to generate discussion so I welcome your questions.

**Deff Dread red Edition**

Actually Fifty, Pyskers(whom I assume work as doctors, which are role blockers)could prevent a death. They prevent night actions being carried out on individuals(as does the magus if I remember correctly).

Perhaps it is some sort of stealer probe, but the way I thought it would work would be a little too high risk.

As for the Night Lord Aspirant(NLA), he functions like a serial killer. They carry out murders during the night to.

Sorry for doing one of those, a lot of chat, nothing really said posts. I'm still mainly waiting for BishopGore to respond to my previous question.

**Fifty**

Ah, I thought Psykers and Doctors were two different things. Psyker is just the name for Doctor in the 40K version then?

Okay then Arheiner, am I right in remembering that you took over from someone else in the last game?

This time, I suggest that you may have voted for me early for two reasons:

1) You saw me survive to the end as a loyal Imperial Citizen last time. This unnerves you, as you are a Genestealer and you don't like people that don't get lynched easily, so you decided to try and get rid of me early (an admittedly unlikely tactic, as initial votes are unlikely to lead to a lynch)

2) You didn't like the way I "coerced/bullied/encouraged" people to get involved last time, so you picked on the person you dislike. (I have no idea how personally you take these games. You may have already forgotten that already, or you may have a picture of me (how did you get that photo, by the way?) up on a dartboard and enjoy stabbing me in the eyes...)

Who do you find suspicious so far?

Truth be told, I have no reason to find you suspicious, Arheiner. I am always wary of Drk_O. I am going to try and spot differences in his style this time compared to last, but he was so eccentric last time that it will be hard to draw conclusions. Lord-Loss seems quiet this time compared to last, and has questioned Thor on this "leading" style, when he himself seemed quite vocal previously. However, it is hardly something huge just yet.

Brother Stynier seems anxious to get to a lynch, but it seems a 'stealer would actually be more circumspect about suggesting lynches too early...

As always, I'll encourage people to talk more. Last time Mekboy made some posts about people's talking patterns and voting patterns. Hopefully he will do the same again. If not, I am on holiday right now, so I will do it myself in the next day or two once we get a few more pages. It is early for that yet, I think.

I might also start a tracker of who I think is contributing most in a purely subjective way. Or that might just get me shot.

**Arheiner**

RVS is literally random, I looked down the list and picked a name from it for no reason tbh.

**SagesStone**

Yes I do intend to reveal my investigations both whenever asked and during my death post. Also Gornal is it against the rules for me to ask you to provide confirmation on my assigned role to everyone here?

**Fifty**

n0t_u wrote:Yes I do intend to reveal my investigations both whenever asked and during my death post.

You are not allowed to give useful info during your death post, sadly.

Also Gornal is it against the rules for me to ask you to provide confirmation on my assigned role to everyone here?

My guess is that you are perfectly entitled to ask, but he won't actually do it.

**shas'o vera**

hmm, interesting

**Thor665**

I'm re-asking these questions since both players missed it/ignored me. I do not ask these questions for no reason - they are applicable to the game, and they will help prevent us from having to read too many "hmmm, interesting" posts which are useless when trying to find Genestealers. If Shas'O's third post is yet another meaningless 'hmmm, look at this' post without any of his own opinions I will vote for him and do my darnedest to lynch him today.

Arheiner wrote:RVS is literally random, I looked down the list and picked a name from it for no reason tbh.

@Arheiner - do you agree with me that we should treat n0t_u as Inquisitor at least through Day 1? How do you feel about his vote on BishopGore?

shas'o vera wrote:hmmm, i never knew you guys were this trigger happy about voting, well, i learned from said previous games that i will post when i have enough evidence.

Trigger happy in what way? How do you feel we are being trigger happy and why do you feel it's not a good idea to play that way?

How are you planning to gather evidence if your plan is to remain quiet until "enough evidence" shows up. Theoretically you are going to gather evidence from people's conversations - why would you not want to try to help/encourage that conversation?

What is your opinion of Vulkan? Do you think his 'need my role PM' comment was intended to mislead us or do you think it was an honest slip?

**Lord-Loss**

I have a problem with treating N0t_u as an inqusitior. He means that we are less likely to lynch him, if we act as if he is an inqusitior. I'd rather not treat as an Inqusitior and rather treat him slightly suspicous for admitting he's an inqusitior this early in the day. There's a chance he's scum.

I think Styniers rushing onto Drk_Oblit too fast, he had one post when Stynier started accusing him and It was hardly a suspicous post, only weird.

**Thor665**

Lord-Loss wrote:I have a problem with treating N0t_u as an inqusitior. He means that we are less likely to lynch him, if we act as if he is an inqusitior. I'd rather not treat as an Inqusitior and rather treat him slightly suspicous for admitting he's an inqusitior this early in the day. There's a chance he's scum.

Yes, but in the most basic of analysis; the truth of the matter is he's either an Inquisitor or a Genestealer(read this as any anti-town role). This is different from most other people we might lynch today because they are basically 50/50 either Genestealer or a pro town role - most likely vanilla Imperial Citizen.

Unless we see n0t_u doing something really scummy today he's just not statistically that brilliant of a lynch option for Day 1. Also, we've already got at least one more valuable information lynch to look at in the BishopGore potential lynch as well as the player who is (in my opinion) the only one who has thus far done anything that I would call an actual scumtell, and that's Drk_O.

I will note that I agree with you insomuch as I have already stated that my preference for not lynching n0t_u only lasts through Day 1. We will be in a much different situation on Day 2 and at that point I'll actually be asking for counter-claims against n0t_u. But for Day 1 I think it is wisest to simply not lynch him unless you can point out some logic that I am missing here.

I continue to disagree with your Stynier commentary. I think you are either misunderstanding Stynier's stated intentions, misunderstanding how much danger Drk_O is currently under for being quicklynched, or are intentionally misrepresenting Stynier's position because you are anti-town and he isn't and you are trying to make him look scummy.

**SagesStone**

No, I knew it wouldn't make me less likely to be lynched. Simply looking at past games if the Inquisitor reveals themselves at a later part to try to prove that someone is guilty then they get lynched as it is too good to be true, yet early on like this I have more to lose than to gain thus it's probably the only time it would be belivable. If at all.

Then if you don't reveal you are there's not much you can do without subtly manipulaating everyone, that will backfire as there certainly people smart enough to see through it, and the enemy would just lead the mob after them, as they'd know who the rest of the stealers are and simply target someone who figures it out and try to lead the rest after them. Thus there's only really two things to do, reveal it early on as a big gamble, like I have, or do nothing about it until you're about to die. I decided to take the less boring way

Also seeing as I'm not able to post useful information in my dieing post I guess I'd put my findings in bold and you would have to keep note of them. Make sure you do because if I get lynched I will make sure to say "I told you so".

I don't mind if you don't believe me LL, but you will in time see what I say is true.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Lord-Loss wrote:

I think Styniers rushing onto Drk_Oblit too fast, he had one post when Stynier started accusing him and It was hardly a suspicous post, only weird.

Weird can be problematic in these games, too often I find him cluttering up the thread with posts meant to mislead, or things that are just plain odd in general. I assisting Thor with putting the pressure on Drk_O while putting it out there that if others were to jump on this vote, not only would it give a clear list of suspects, but I would already have my reasons supporting my vote out there. One that I feel is logical. Even so, you'd have Thor, myself and five others too look at. I'd look at the first vote and last vote before the rest, then work over the rest as you see fit.

This is all assuming that others jump in on Drk_O,something that might not happen assuming he responds to the suspicion leveled at him. Though once more I state that losing his odd posts would not be a bad thing.

**Lord-Loss**

I'd rather wait and find a suspicous person to put pressure on, then a weird person. (No offense Derek

)

**shas'o vera**

in my opinion, i think its the one who tries to use as much logic as possible to try and make everyone else seem guilty

**Deff Dread red Edition**

That makes no sense. So the one whom tries to logically deduce who the genstealers are is, himself guilty?

**Gornall**

Because there seems to be confusion:

===================ROLE EXPLANATIONS==================================
Imperial Citizen - just a regular voting member of the Imperium, and proud of it, (pro town)
Inquisitor - during Night Phase may target one character - is told whether target is pro town or anti town (pro town)
Imperium Sanctioned Psyker - during Night Phase may target one character - target is saved from *one* kill attempt as psychic powers drive off killers. May not self target. (pro town)
Officio Assassinorium Operative - during Night Phase may target one character - target is killed. May not self target. (pro town)

Genestealer - knows who all other Genestealers are. During Night Phase they may all communicate via PM, they get to target one character - target is killed. (anti town)
Genestealer Magus - has all the abilities of regular Genestealers. During Night Phase may also choose a separate target - target is denied use of their Night Phase ability thanks to hypnotic eyes. (anti town)

Night Lords Aspirant - Only wins if he is the last living character. Each Night Phase may target one character - target is killed (anti town)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Directly copy and pasted from Thor's last registration thread.

As for N0t_U's request... you've been playing these games long enough to know very well that a Mod would never confirm or deny anyone's role claim...

**SagesStone**

Well it's just never come up before, that's all

**Vulkan_He'stan**

Vote: not_u
this is the worst possible time to say your the inquisitor
your either going to be day or night lynched
Its just so unbelivable

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Actually from experience the worst possible time to do it is the day before the last day when everyone starts claiming to be the Inquisitor.

**SagesStone**

But how is it as you say "just so unbelievable" for one simply to say "feth subtlety I'm an Inquisitor"?
Put it this way, would you believe me if I investigated someone and revealed that I was the Inquisitor with my findings or before I even have anything? Probably only if it went in line with your own opinion thus it would be pointless for me to waste my time commiting suicide then.

But if what you say is true then your vote is simply wasted on me. By your logic voting for me would be the same as not voting at all. Perhaps you're a Genestealer and want to avoid me possibly investigating you.

**Thor665**

BrotherStynier wrote:I'd look at the first vote and last vote before the rest, then work over the rest as you see fit.

I am pretty much in agreement with everything Brother Stynier has been saying except for this particular aspect. Genestealers tend to get on wagons when and as it suits them and it can be different times depending on what the situation is. There is no evidence I have ever seen to suggest Genestealers are more or less likely to be first or last on a wagon as opposed to 3rd, 4th, or any other point. There are a few exceptions but they aren't really worth discussing at length unless we happen to come upon such a situation.

shas'o vera wrote:in my opinion, i think its the one who tries to use as much logic as possible to try and make everyone else seem guilty

Your continued dodging of my questions is noted - but at least here you're expressing an opinion which does please me.

Why do you find logical players more suspicious then illogical ones?

Whom do you think has been most logical thus far?

Are you voting for that player? If not, why not - aren't they a Genestealer in your opinion?

===============================================================

Could those of you who currently aren't voting please put 1-2 more votes on both the BortherGore wagon and especially the Drk_O wagon.
Or, if you don't want to vote for them at this moment then please explain who you find more suspicious then either of them (equal levels of suspicion means you might as well vote for them as much as anyone else and thus do not count)
Don't be afraid to get votes out, votes are what will let us know where you stand and will help us find Genestealers.
I will also note that everyone "waiting for more evidence" without actually putting pressure or accusations against players is being foolish and wistful in their belief a Genestealer will shortly post a "I'm a Genestealer" post. Get active.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

First and last posts are just a place to start, Im aware Genestealers are likely to jump in at any time during a vote, but having a clear order is better than going in with no plan at all.

**Thor665**

Vulkan_He'stan wrote:Vote: not_u
this is the worst possible time to say your the inquisitor
your either going to be day or night lynched
Its just so unbelivable

I'm against this.

First scenario - he's a Genestealer, in which case we already have a decent idea who one of the Genestealers may or may not be. It is thus to our advantage to try and sniff out his evil partner. Even better, if we do have an actual Inquisitor in our midst we can wait till Day 2, let that Inquisitor investigate someone, and then on Day 2 have them counter claim n0t_u. At that point we have one investigation target (either clearing a townie or finding another anti-town role) plus we know one of the Inquisitors is lying so we have caught at least one Genestealer already at that point, which is pretty good for Day 1.

Second scenario - he's the Inquisitor, in which case, yes, The Genestealers are probably going to kill him dead tonight. However, if we lynch him today we are freeing them up to kill someone else who is potentially more helpful to town. Why help the Genestealers kill two targets?

There is a third case scenario of which I am uncertain on my feelings of discussing at this particular time and since I might be dead later will simply settle for saying that on Day 2 we should be looking for counter claims and no longer totally ruling out n0t_u as a lynch suspect as I feel we should today. I think your vote will do a lot more good on another target.

**Fifty**

I think Shas'o Vera's statement makes him more guilty than anyone. And frankly, if we are not going to use some sort of logic, what are we going to use? Blind luck? The Force? Prayer? Frankly, I am of the opinion that the Emperor helps those who help themselves, and we'd damn well better use Logic to solve this.

Vote: shas'o vera

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I agree with your current assessment that logic is what is needed to defeat our foes, but we must be wary the Genestealers can also use logic to try and twist our words making it seem as though the arguments we are using were just covers for our insidious plans.

For example LL seems intent on twisting what I have said into making me look like the enemy. Does this make me suspicious of him? Yes it does.

Should you be suspicious of him? Yes you should, but you should always be wary of me as well, for unless the Inquisitor backs me up on my claims of being loyal to the throne, I could very well be one of the creatures out to destroy you.

**Gornall**

Current Vote Count:

1- Thor..................(DarkO)
0- DDRE
0- Lord-Loss
1- Mekboy..............(Lord Loss)
1- Fifty...................(Arheiner)
0- Vulkan_Hestan
0- Arheiner
2- BishopGore.........(DDRE, n0t_U)
0- Brother Stynier
2- Drk_Oblit............(Thor, Brother Stynier)
1- Shas O'vera........(Fifty)
0- Ferret
1- Not U.................(Vulkan)

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

**Thor665**

Gornall wrote:1- Shas O'vera........(Shas'O)

Isn't it Fifty who's voting for Shas'O?

**Gornall**

Fixed.

**Lord-Loss**

BrotherStynier wrote:For example LL seems intent on twisting what I have said into making me look like the enemy.

How?

You jumped onto Drk_Oblit after one post. It wasn't suspicous just.... odd. I don't see the point in picking on someone straight away, when you got no evidence of them being suspicous.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Your statements to the fact of me "wanting a lynch". I do think Drk_O being removed could be helpful regardless of his role, and I wanted to let you all know that I firmly believed that. But your statements could easily make me look rather scummy, more so than I would already appear by simply stating he is valuable to us dead.

He post first post was odd enough, it was evidence enough that he would fill this thread in babble that would be more harmful than good. (No offense Drk_O, sometime I find your antics amusing but after several loses I think its time the town wins one) Because I feel this way, and at least partially have the support of one other on the matter I voted. Of course it doesn't mean I want to remove him with out getting anything out of day one other than a lynch.