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Gonzo_Neo wrote:Can we join Celestine to a Seraphim squad ( in 2nd part i readed that is not a IC ) or they are still " two units move together " ?

In the bestiary, she's listed as an Independent Character - whatever the second half omits - so she can be attached to any squad you like. Sadly, when she joins the Seraphim squad they lose Hit and Run - but, on the other hand, they were unlikely to make much use of it with I3 in any case. Even allowing for the brutally overpriced upgrades, Inferno Seraphim make a nice anti-MEQ squad, especially if they ride with Celestine. Hand Flamers with the Seraphim AoF are slightly preferable to Inferno Pistols against GEQ, but are less-than-worthless against MEQ.

Edit:

Gonzo_Neo wrote:Some news that prevent repentia mount in a rhino in 2nd part ?

If they can, i will try them in exchange of celestian.

There's no special rule stopping them from mounting up, but they can't take a Dedicated Transport of their own. It means that to get them into a Rhino, you have to take the Rhino as a Dedicated Transport for another unit, place it empty during deployment right next to your Repentia, hope the enemy doesn't put any scouting units within sight of the Repentia, then load them up during the first turn. If your Repentia can draw any LoS to an enemy unit, they won't be able to mount up, they'll have to move towards that enemy.

Gonzo_Neo wrote:Can we join Celestine to a Seraphim squad ( in 2nd part i readed that is not a IC ) or they are still " two units move together " ?

I think too that my 2 HQ choices would be Celestine and Uriah+9 cult+rhino.

Some news that prevent repentia mount in a rhino in 2nd part ?

If they can, i will try them in exchange of celestian.

The 1st part of the WD Codex has Celestine's entry as including the "Independent Character" special rule. Just show your opponent that. ^_^

Hm, I'm wondering if it would be worth it for my army to take out a Penitent Engine and add in 5 more Death Cult Assassins to give me something that might possibly be able to go up against my opponent's Honor Guard once it's been whittled down a way... It'd leave me with 8 more points to spend.


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Gonzo_Neo wrote:Can we join Celestine to a Seraphim squad ( in 2nd part i readed that is not a IC ) or they are still " two units move together " ?

I think too that my 2 HQ choices would be Celestine and Uriah+9 cult+rhino.

Some news that prevent repentia mount in a rhino in 2nd part ?

If they can, i will try them in exchange of celestian.

And no, nothing prevents Repentia from riding in a Rhino. They have no dedicated transport option for their own squad, but nothing stops you from embarking in a transport during the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mythal wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Hey look, the night sky is turning a visible shade of blue!

There's always hope. I mean, I still feel that this Codex was pretty meh - and I'll be raging if we're still using it, with no new model releases, in three years time. But I'm pretty confident there are ways to make it work. And knowing you're playing with an underpowered Codex makes victory over the Big Boys that much sweeter.

Actually, I meant that literally. The sun is rising where I live. ^_^

Pouncey wrote:Hm, I'm wondering if it would be worth it for my army to take out a Penitent Engine and add in 5 more Death Cult Assassins to give me something that might possibly be able to go up against my opponent's Honor Guard once it's been whittled down a way... It'd leave me with 8 more points to spend.

I would certainly go with the DCAs over the Penitent Engine. Remember that with Uriah, 9 charging DCAs get 45 power weapon attacks at I6, S4 and WS5. They also have base 5++ and gain FNP from the Fat Man. And, unlike a PE, 5 DCAs can't be killed by a single power klaw attack.

Pouncey wrote:Actually, I meant that literally. The sun is rising where I live. ^_^

Heh - t'was still a good metaphor

I posted this in my army thread, but thought that it applies here as well, so repost INC.

1500 Sisters of Battle

HQ

Cannoness - 90
Eviserator

Command Squad - 220
Multi Melta x 3, Hospitialer, Sister Dialogus
Immolator
Multi Melta

Troops

Sister of Battle x 10 - 195
Combi Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer
Rhino

Sister of Battle x 10 - 195
Combi Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer
Rhino

Sister of Battle x 10 - 195
Combi Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer

Fast

Dominion x 5 - 170
Combi Melta, Melta Gun x 2, Melta Bomb
Immolator
Heavy Flamer

Dominion x 5 - 165
Combi Melta, Melta Gun x 2
Immolator
Heavy Flamer


Heavy

Exorcist - 135

Exorcist - 135

So, I had my first Sisters game out of the new codex, and a 2 to 1 objective victory at that! I played this list at 1500 and I played against IG with 4 objectives, table quarters.He got in a nice good side with cover way away from me and got first turn (which I successfully rolled a 6 stole the initiative! His list was 3 Chimeras (2 vet squads 1 HQ squad), 2 Blobbed infantry squads /w auto cannon, 2 Leman Russ 1 normal 1 executioner, 2 Hellhounds 1 Valkyrie, I'm sure I'm leaving something else out as well.

My two Melta Dominion squads were the star of the game, they outflanked in my opponent's back field w/scouts, and never stopped killing, and even with a ton of shots poured at them, managed to live, each squad killed 2 tanks each for a total of 4, and my Immolators killed 2 squads each. Dominions are worth every point of their cost, and run well in 5 man squads with 2 special 1 combi, esp if twin linked act of faith is successful.

Faith isn't important anymore, not at all, most of the time the most the army will ever use is 3 in any given turn but most turns will see only 1 or 2. It's a 50/50 shot it either happens or it doesn't, and it's not a huge loss if it doesn't go off. This makes all of the weargear buffing faith, pretty useless. esp for a 20 point upgrade.

FNP is not nearly as good for T3 as it is for T4, there's a ton of STR double toughness stuff (str 6 in my case) in almost every codex and that's when FNP can be used the most effectively, but most blast/template weapons are above str 6 or equal and Inferno cannons/grey knight flamers ignore it as well.

The army doesn't feel as durable with the loss of 3+ invuls and stubborn army wide, but plays very much the same, my opponent felt like he was playing against the same army with flamers,melta and a 3+ save, and I felt like I was playing the same army, but only a bit different. Faith is much much friendlier and easy to grasp, esp to people that don't play the army. Previous faith was very confusing to people that didn't play Sisters, which is pretty much everyone except for me where I am. So now it's obvious what squads can use what power, exactly how many faith points can be spent each turn and it's easy to tell if faith goes off and when it doesn't, no more over squad size under squad size guessing.

In closing, I still feel a bit jaded that the Sisters points are priced a little higher than they should and I'm feeling very uneasy with the new codex but all and all, I'm feeling much more optimistic with a win under my belt vs a good IG player and I'm not feeling like the end of the world is nigh, well not as much. So cheer up friends, it's not all that bad, it really isn't, really! =)

Well that looks like a rather large cock up, splitting the codex in 2 and 'changing' which special rules characters have. I was slightly annoyed that looking at part 2 she was not an IC, but I thought there had to be a catch for her being so cheap. But she clearly is an IC according to part 1, so for the time being I'm a happy bunny!

However I have the feeling that this will be FAQ'd, as i think its part 2 which is correct. Also fluff wise it doesn't really make sense for her to join units.

The Decapitator wrote:Well that looks like a rather large cock up, splitting the codex in 2 and 'changing' which special rules characters have. I was slightly annoyed that looking at part 2 she was not an IC, but I thought there had to be a catch for her being so cheap. But she clearly is an IC according to part 1, so for the time being I'm a happy bunny!

However I have the feeling that this will be FAQ'd, as i think its part 2 which is correct. Also fluff wise it doesn't really make sense for her to join units.

Catch the part where Acro's are str 5 in the second part, and str 4 in the first? lolol. Sure, I'll take some str 5 acros!

Mythal wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Hm, I'm wondering if it would be worth it for my army to take out a Penitent Engine and add in 5 more Death Cult Assassins to give me something that might possibly be able to go up against my opponent's Honor Guard once it's been whittled down a way... It'd leave me with 8 more points to spend.

I would certainly go with the DCAs over the Penitent Engine. Remember that with Uriah, 9 charging DCAs get 45 power weapon attacks at I6, S4 and WS5. They also have base 5++ and gain FNP from the Fat Man. And, unlike a PE, 5 DCAs can't be killed by a single power klaw attack.

Pouncey wrote:Actually, I meant that literally. The sun is rising where I live. ^_^

Heh - t'was still a good metaphor

Uriah, eh?

To add to that, they also get re-rolls to hit when they charge, because of the Righteous Rage rule for Confessors - including Uriah but not sure about Kyrinov. ^_^ Should make mincemeat out of em, assuming I get the charge.

Yeah, I think I'll go with that. It'll mean I'll have to get more DCAs than I initially intended, plus Uriah, and I'll probably have to cut a Seraphim model from my list to pay for Uriah over a generic Confessor, but I do agree that it's worth it. The additional 20-25 attacks I get from the 5 additional DCAs might not be S10, but since my opponent doesn't field vehicles - and the only vehicle in my list is a single Penitent Engine, used to be 2.

Plus, I do enjoy the DCA minis. ^_^


Yeah, sometimes things work right.


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Kreedos wrote:

The Decapitator wrote:Well that looks like a rather large cock up, splitting the codex in 2 and 'changing' which special rules characters have. I was slightly annoyed that looking at part 2 she was not an IC, but I thought there had to be a catch for her being so cheap. But she clearly is an IC according to part 1, so for the time being I'm a happy bunny!

However I have the feeling that this will be FAQ'd, as i think its part 2 which is correct. Also fluff wise it doesn't really make sense for her to join units.

Catch the part where Acro's are str 5 in the second part, and str 4 in the first? lolol. Sure, I'll take some str 5 acros!

In fairness, it might not be totally contradictory. Where it lists Saint Celestine's unit type, it says, "Jump Infantry (character)".

The Jacobs death cult is an amazingly good unit and it's not overpriced, talking 275 for a squad of 10 deathcult/crusaders + Jacobs in a Rhino

That's pretty much the same price as a kitted out Cannoness with command squad in a rhino.

Only difference is preference really I don't try and hybridize my army, so I have no CC element, thus I prefer the cannoness with her shooty squad.

Oh, and about Celestine, she may be cheap and tempting, but without a Seraphim squad to support her, she's dead weight with a 4+ invul and no eternal warrior, 1 str 6 or higher shot is going to take all those wounds off, and that is very very easy to do.

Kreedos wrote:The Jacobs death cult is an amazingly good unit and it's not overpriced, talking 275 for a squad of 10 deathcult/crusaders + Jacobs in a Rhino

That's pretty much the same price as a kitted out Cannoness with command squad in a rhino.

Only difference is preference really I don't try and hybridize my army, so I have no CC element, thus I prefer the cannoness with her shooty squad.

:: nods :: It's a personal preference for both sides. ^_^

Edit: And I do indeed have a unit of Seraphim in my list to support her. ^_^

Kreedos wrote:The Jacobs death cult is an amazingly good unit and it's not overpriced, talking 275 for a squad of 10 deathcult/crusaders + Jacobs in a Rhino

That's pretty much the same price as a kitted out Cannoness with command squad in a rhino.

Only difference is preference really I don't try and hybridize my army, so I have no CC element, thus I prefer the cannoness with her shooty squad.

Oh, and about Celestine, she may be cheap and tempting, but without a Seraphim squad to support her, she's dead weight with a 4+ invul and no eternal warrior, 1 str 6 or higher shot is going to take all those wounds off, and that is very very easy to do.

I would definitely only take Celestine with Seraphim to back her up - but I've fielded Seraphim since 2nd Edition and never regretted it

Regarding Uriah, it is definitely a personal preference thing - I can completely understand a purely-shooty army bypassing him and his death squad. But since my force is built around being fluffy, I'm just going to field him as an Imhava Ayatani backed up by a Death Cult devoted to Saint Sabbat - one assassin for every holy wound. My local meta is very hybridised, and having that sort of counter-assault unit sat behind vulnerable BSS objective-holders will help deter even the toughest dedicated assault units.

Kreedos wrote:I posted this in my army thread, but thought that it applies here as well, so repost INC.

Spoiler:

1500 Sisters of Battle

HQ

Cannoness - 90
Eviserator

Command Squad - 220
Multi Melta x 3, Hospitialer, Sister Dialogus
Immolator
Multi Melta

Troops

Sister of Battle x 10 - 195
Combi Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer
Rhino

Sister of Battle x 10 - 195
Combi Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer
Rhino

Sister of Battle x 10 - 195
Combi Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer

Fast

Dominion x 5 - 170
Combi Melta, Melta Gun x 2, Melta Bomb
Immolator
Heavy Flamer

Dominion x 5 - 165
Combi Melta, Melta Gun x 2
Immolator
Heavy Flamer


Heavy

Exorcist - 135

Exorcist - 135

So, I had my first Sisters game out of the new codex, and a 2 to 1 objective victory at that! I played this list at 1500 and I played against IG with 4 objectives, table quarters.He got in a nice good side with cover way away from me and got first turn (which I successfully rolled a 6 stole the initiative! His list was 3 Chimeras (2 vet squads 1 HQ squad), 2 Blobbed infantry squads /w auto cannon, 2 Leman Russ 1 normal 1 executioner, 2 Hellhounds 1 Valkyrie, I'm sure I'm leaving something else out as well.

My two Melta Dominion squads were the star of the game, they outflanked in my opponent's back field w/scouts, and never stopped killing, and even with a ton of shots poured at them, managed to live, each squad killed 2 tanks each for a total of 4, and my Immolators killed 2 squads each. Dominions are worth every point of their cost, and run well in 5 man squads with 2 special 1 combi, esp if twin linked act of faith is successful.

Faith isn't important anymore, not at all, most of the time the most the army will ever use is 3 in any given turn but most turns will see only 1 or 2. It's a 50/50 shot it either happens or it doesn't, and it's not a huge loss if it doesn't go off. This makes all of the weargear buffing faith, pretty useless. esp for a 20 point upgrade.

FNP is not nearly as good for T3 as it is for T4, there's a ton of STR double toughness stuff (str 6 in my case) in almost every codex and that's when FNP can be used the most effectively, but most blast/template weapons are above str 6 or equal and Inferno cannons/grey knight flamers ignore it as well.

The army doesn't feel as durable with the loss of 3+ invuls and stubborn army wide, but plays very much the same, my opponent felt like he was playing against the same army with flamers,melta and a 3+ save, and I felt like I was playing the same army, but only a bit different. Faith is much much friendlier and easy to grasp, esp to people that don't play the army. Previous faith was very confusing to people that didn't play Sisters, which is pretty much everyone except for me where I am. So now it's obvious what squads can use what power, exactly how many faith points can be spent each turn and it's easy to tell if faith goes off and when it doesn't, no more over squad size under squad size guessing.

In closing, I still feel a bit jaded that the Sisters points are priced a little higher than they should and I'm feeling very uneasy with the new codex but all and all, I'm feeling much more optimistic with a win under my belt vs a good IG player and I'm not feeling like the end of the world is nigh, well not as much. So cheer up friends, it's not all that bad, it really isn't, really! =)

Nifty stuff! Great to hear we're not completely underpowered! : D

Pouncey wrote:

Nifty stuff! Great to hear we're not completely underpowered! : D

Thanks, I don't believe we're underpowered, just a bit different. Now I'm trying to decide if heavy flamers are really worth the 15 points over taking just 2 flamers per squad. Honestly with 3 flamers in a squad, does it really matter if one is heavy? esp when you save 60 points over 4 squads with just 2 flamers 1 combi flamer per squad, I dunno... I just dont know.

Kreedos wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

Nifty stuff! Great to hear we're not completely underpowered! : D

Thanks, I don't believe we're underpowered, just a bit different. Now I'm trying to decide if heavy flamers are really worth the 15 points over taking just 2 flamers per squad. Honestly with 3 flamers in a squad, does it really matter if one is heavy? esp when you save 60 points over 4 squads with just 2 flamers 1 combi flamer per squad, I dunno... I just dont know.

I dunno if the +1S and -1AP is worth 15 points either. I took a couple in my list, just because I got the minis for my birthday a couple of days ago and wanted to use em. ^_^

Those 60 points could buy several Seraphim... Or an equivalent number of Crusaders or DCAs, or some more Retributors or Dominions for ablative Wounds. Or some pistols for the Seraphim if you already have some.

algesan wrote:Fault trail: A. Codex Writer(s), B. Codex Editor/Reviewer(s) (if any), C. Codex Playtester(s) (if any), D. Game Development Supervisor checking with the 40K design plan (if any), E. GW Management providing oversight.

Since there appears to be exactly zero evidence that B., C. or D. exist, then it falls squarely on the one paying A. for their work. In other words E.

You forgot F, the people who pay E, otherwise known as plasticrack addicts and/or apologists.

Omegus wrote:

algesan wrote:Fault trail: A. Codex Writer(s), B. Codex Editor/Reviewer(s) (if any), C. Codex Playtester(s) (if any), D. Game Development Supervisor checking with the 40K design plan (if any), E. GW Management providing oversight.

Since there appears to be exactly zero evidence that B., C. or D. exist, then it falls squarely on the one paying A. for their work. In other words E.

You forgot F, the people who pay E, otherwise known as plasticrack addicts and/or apologists.

You'll never take my plastic, metal, and/or resin crack from me!!!! NEVEEEER!!!!

:: murrs at only having to spend 180 bucks plus tax for 11 metal infantry minis and 1 metal/plastic tank ::

Damn, I'd bed a Death-Cult Assassin, even if she had to kill me afterward for being a heretic.

When I see the SoB "codex" I try and look at in the context of GW's game designers and how they've gone about rewriting the codices. I think there are strong parallels between this and C:Chaos Renegades... both are incomplete works but give us a glimpse into these writers methodology. With these reworks, they start by taking it to the basics of the army and then they build upon it. This WD codex is the very basics of SoB as the writer sees it. Put that side by side with the Blood Angels Codex and Blood Angels WD codex... as drastic the changes that occurred there will happen with SoB; you will see new units and you will see units tweaked. Just imagine taking a book like the IG codex and reverting it to its primordial state; you'd have something as disappointing as this with few exceptions. Almost everything worthwhile about the IG was "new" and without which would look as basic as this.

It really will be the new additions that make this codex work. With this everyone is talking about Immolator spamming, but when a book gets released there will most certainly be other options beyond what there and those are likely to change sentiments over these spam-in-a-can lists.

Eumerin wrote:And finally, GW should have told us why they felt it necessary to implement this sudden update with Sisters. The lack of information coupled with the blatant lack of interest that GW has in selling Sisters figures (i.e. the extra work involved in trying to buy the models) is merely making things worse. What's the worst that can happen if GW were to tell us - the players might complain? I think that's already happening...

For all GW's faults I think this is the least forgivable. They got to where they were because they were accessible and communicated very well and have since shunned that to the point that they carry a condescending attitude that we should accept all their actions as sacrosanct.

sacrosanct

pedantism ftw

I found the fact Sisters won the battle report amusing, I mean how could they possibly lose as its in White Dwarf. They are the featured force along side ogres, loss not allowed!

I was hoping for a little more changes wise, especially with regards to points values!

redeyed wrote:pedantism ftw

I found the fact Sisters won the battle report amusing, I mean how could they possibly lose as its in White Dwarf. They are the featured force along side ogres, loss not allowed!

I was hoping for a little more changes wise, especially with regards to points values!

If you read the report, note how many times they mention that the Sisters got lucky, were fortunate, or that the tyranid player's dice turned on him or got unlucky or 'fell for the trap'... etc. Yeah, my thought is that the Sisters got their asses kicked and they just re-did each action in favor of the Sisters.

I was making lists last night and I'm having trouble coming up with something that doesn't include Uriah Jacobus or Celestine... *edit*... I meant as in "doesn't include them because they're prob the best thing about the codex, aside from free 6++ on vehicles and the excorsists (of course, but they were good before).

Yeah I noticed that lol. I also took a peek at the Ogres report and alot of luck was mentioned in that also (although alot of it on the Tomb King side) I reckon that one was edited aswell!


Celestine for me is a must have anyway, because shes just lovely! I like the model, I like the theme! and now I like the cost!

Not so sure about mr Jacobus, I glossed over his entry lol

Roll 2d6 for Faith each turn while he is alive.
+1 Attack, Stubborn (ld10) and FNP for the unit he is with.

Throw him in with some DCA/Crusaders:
DCA have 4 attacks base (2 +1 for 2W +1 for Uriah) at I6, 5++ and FNP.
Crusaders have 2 Attacks base (1 +1 for Uriah) at I3, 3++ and FNP.
They reroll all misses on the charge as well.

You're going to make something die horribly.

oo sounds nasty!

I will have to add him to my list of purchases! (along with having a good peek at his model/entry in the WD!!)

I am also SO glad that Rhino's finally cost the same as everyone elses. Also ours get 6+ invun ontop of that!

I like some aspects of this WD codex, others not so keen on. My least favorite is the cost of Heavy Flamers and was hoping for a 1-2 point reduction on basic sisters.

Oh my goodness...
WD September issue
Page 90-
Dominions - "For every five models in the squad, up to two Dominions may replace their boltgun with one of the following [Storm bolter, flamer, melta]
Page 96 - A photo of the sisters army for the battle report, looking distinctly like it has 5 Dominions armed with 4 flamers... WTF looks like the designers aren't even playing by their own rules these days lol

OMG WTF BBQ!

In all seriousness, this frequently happens in WD battle reports. The battle reports are generally fought and documented well before the WD is released. This leads to previous versions of rules and armies being seen in the BRs and also leads to rules interpretations that are later changed by the time the real thing hits the shelves.

There are countless examples of this over the last 20 years.

redeye wrote:pedantism ftw

Pedantry.

Ba dum tish.

htj wrote:

redeye wrote:pedantism ftw

Pedantry.

Ba dum tish.

haha oh no >.<

Pouncey wrote:I prefer to think of it as hapless errors, personally

The kind of error people make when they just don' care?


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n0t_u wrote:Seems odd you'd be able to spam Immolators more with the update. But as I'm running a mech force anyway it's a good thing.

You mean you find it odd GW would let you spam a heavily nerfed vehicle?

Cofessor Dallax wrote:Oh my goodness...
WD September issue
Page 90-
Dominions - "For every five models in the squad, up to two Dominions may replace their boltgun with one of the following [Storm bolter, flamer, melta]
Page 96 - A photo of the sisters army for the battle report, looking distinctly like it has 5 Dominions armed with 4 flamers... WTF looks like the designers aren't even playing by their own rules these days lol

IIRC the photo of the Dominions going up against the big Tyranid monster-beastie shows six Sisters in the photo, suggesting that Cruddace went with the "proper" option of a 10 Dominion squad in order to get more than two heavy flamers. Unfortunately, I don't have my magazine handy (I'm at work now...), so I can't double-check that.

Of course, this question could have been resolved if Cruddace and Hutchings had just done the simple task of printing their force lists. The Battle Report as written is largely useless because it contains very little in the way of details. We have basic ideas on how stuff happened, but not enough to know WHY things happened the way that they did. A handful of notable events are recorded, but that's essentially that.

I, for one, would be quite curious to know the details regarding how one of the squads (with Jacobus) managed to beat genestealers in an assault...

Details of the WD batrep:

"I think these models are in a cool pose, and the background's nice. Can you write a blurb about it as if we were actually playing a game?"

Eumerin wrote:I, for one, would be quite curious to know the details regarding how one of the squads (with Jacobus) managed to beat genestealers in an assault...

That's easy.

Genestealers assaulted into cover, so swing last.
Uriah gives +1 attack and FNP to the unit.

Above average rolling will have those stealers taking a lot of wounds and potentially losing the combat (especially with no or few rends). A low I roll on the sweep check sees them wiped out.

It isn't the most common outcome of that scenario, but is certainly well within the realm of possibility.