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Take 2: Packs a little more firepower while keeping CC abilities, and the wulfen stone has better synergy with the TWC if they survive.

Battalion Detachment:

Hq:

Wolf Lord (129pts)
-Thunder Hammer
-SS
-Jump Pack
- Saga of the Hunter
-Wulfen Stone
-WL

Rune Priest (126pts)
-Jump Pack
-Runic Axe
-Storm Bolter
-Armor of Russ
-Fury of the Wolf Spirits
-Storm Caller

Troops:

5 Man GH Squad (65 pts)
-4x Chainsword
-GHPL Chainsword + boltgun

2x6 Man GH Squad (182 pts)
-5x Chainsword
-GHPL Chainsword + boltgun
-Plasma Gun

Fast Attack:
3xTWC (157 pts)
-Leader with SS/Frost Sword
-2xSS/CS

Dedicated Transport:

Razorback (120pts)
-Twin Lascannon

Razorback (116 pts)
-Storm Bolter
-Twin Assault Cannon

Heavy Support:

Whirlwind (104 pts)
-Vengeance Launcher

TOTAL POINTS: 999

Finally got some time to look into our hobby, and during my absence we got the codex.

Just to confirm if my initial feelings are correct; we are decent mid-field faction that can do lot of different things? Because I think our roster is somewhat flexible, and there are ways to do different lists to be semi-competetive.

I think the real sad thing here was we just got added into Primaris line, but no other new options or models. Bit of a letdown, because our character really need some updating dont you think?

edit// went along to create 3000 points list
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/766660.page#10225953

You have it figured out. There are some amazing tricks we can pull off, and if you use wolves as part of a larger imperial force you can really do some damage, but as a just wolf force we are good, but not amazing.

Biggest issue is this edition is all about shooting and hordes, with knight forces being meta breakers. Space marines cost too much to be a horde army and cc isnt as reliable thanks to "i will just walk out of cc so everything can shoot your cc unit" so you either have to engage on multiple fronts at once to really not leave the enemy many units to shoot with or hope your cc super unit can survive.

Azuza001 wrote:
You have it figured out. There are some amazing tricks we can pull off, and if you use wolves as part of a larger imperial force you can really do some damage, but as a just wolf force we are good, but not amazing.

Biggest issue is this edition is all about shooting and hordes, with knight forces being meta breakers. Space marines cost too much to be a horde army and cc isnt as reliable thanks to "i will just walk out of cc so everything can shoot your cc unit" so you either have to engage on multiple fronts at once to really not leave the enemy many units to shoot with or hope your cc super unit can survive.

I feel you. Ive seen most lists running lot of bodies!

My love for terminators is hurt, dont see any way of wielding them.

Everything Termies can do Wulfen do and Wulfen do most of those things better.

I have hard time setting my mind about transports though! Everyone knows me as a madman with that Mastodon, but smaller transports are a mystery.

An opinion in limbo is probably a good way to be.
Transports suck against some armies and can be brilliant in some situations.

The best way for CC units to survive is "wrap tricks" and those aren't easy to pull off with something like Space Marines (or Wolves for that matter). Generally it helps to have a large unit like Tzaangors, Ork Boyz, or Cultists if you want to try to wrap units and prevent them from falling back, and then finishing them in CC on your opponent's turn. Blood Claws could maybe do it if they don't get shot up on the way in. Wulfen are just too killy to make that happen.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
The best way for CC units to survive is "wrap tricks" and those aren't easy to pull off with something like Space Marines (or Wolves for that matter). Generally it helps to have a large unit like Tzaangors, Ork Boyz, or Cultists if you want to try to wrap units and prevent them from falling back, and then finishing them in CC on your opponent's turn. Blood Claws could maybe do it if they don't get shot up on the way in. Wulfen are just too killy to make that happen.

Wulfen should go after the big nasty monsters / tanks anyway. So if you take a 6-7 strong or stronger unit it is still possible to warp it up had it not been killed them in the first round. Just shame those real powerful ones of the Tank / Monsters actually can fly, so warpping them up is useless.

TBH, SW is a mid-tier army no doubt. SW is defintely a better army compare to bottom tier of vanilla Space Marine and Necrons, and far better than GK sure. But we are more likely a lower-mid-tier army, on par with Dark Angel and Deathwatch probably, and the upper-mid-tier should belong to the Custodes, BA, Nidz, and maybe Tau. Generally speaking, we don't have the high-body counts, and we got more overcosted stuff than we got rightfully priced or under costed units while most of our foot soilders are still squishy like any space marine variant in 8th edition. We have some good stratagem but due to the fact that we got overpriced troops we cannot spam both CP and take enough "effective" units, and those stratagem is not cheap and will burn through your limited CPs faster than you can imagine. The most CP I took in a 2000 game was taking a Battalion (Bjorn, 2 Rune Priest and 3 min troops), a Vanguard (Rune Priest, Wuflen and 2 Ven Dreads) and an Outrider (WGBL on wolf, min number of TWC and 2 Cyberwolves) giving me 11 CP, and what happen is I burn all the CP within 2 turns. Basically it was the outflanking Wulfen and Blood Claw ate 2 before the game started, 3 CP for Cloak in Storm after my Rune Priest casted the power in my first turn. Into 2nd turn, 1 CP for the enhanced living lightening psychic power, 1 CP for reroll a rolled for the charging wulfen to get them in, followed by 3 CP to make them fight twice. 10CP down , and a reroll saving throws for my Dreads 4++ against enemy lascannon mixed in, there gone all my CPs.

Damn, you literally chew through command points.
How much damage did it get you though?

Anybody use any of the Space Wolves’ flyers?
I’ve been looking at the Stormfang, the Stormwolf and the Interceptor as harassment units.

The Interceptor is tempting for its cost and weaponry but the Stormwolf can carry a pack of Wulfen into my opponent’s ranks before they can react. Both are really good killers of soft targets.

A flyer full of Wulfen is such a clear high priority target that no army worth their salt is not going to let that thing live past 1st turn. If you go second you can kiss that flyer goodbye and footslog with your Wulfen.

A flyer full of Bloodclaws might make it, if you present a more convincing priority target for their antitank. Which in a mono SW build is pretty difficult. An imperial Knight might be such a target though if you're into those.

What I'm saying is the flyers seem great on paper and all but in the end they're just too fragile to transport anything of value. An empty Stormfang might do some work though.

Stormfangs empty are very effective thanks to their points drop, but they still die to concentrated firepower. And at 250+ pts each that can still take up a large chunk of points.

 Weazel wrote:
A flyer full of Wulfen is such a clear high priority target that no army worth their salt is not going to let that thing live past 1st turn. If you go second you can kiss that flyer goodbye and footslog with your Wulfen.

A flyer full of Bloodclaws might make it, if you present a more convincing priority target for their antitank. Which in a mono SW build is pretty difficult. An imperial Knight might be such a target though if you're into those.

What I'm saying is the flyers seem great on paper and all but in the end they're just too fragile to transport anything of value. An empty Stormfang might do some work though.

I have the attention getters, I’m actually hoping that a Stormwolf can share the attention with or without the cargo.
I’m afraid I don’t have Blood Claws in this list of but there are fifteen more Wulfen so a full twenty, Bjorn and a Chaplain Dread - both packing Twin LasCanons. I have gone very Elite in response to a majority of lists in the competition in my area being three Imperial Knights and a handful of Imperial Guard. I need something for thinning or removing screening units so that my Wulfen aren’t being held back in the shooting range by passive, sacrificial roadblocks. The question I’m asking would be is optional transport capability worth the extra twenty points over the Stormfang or eighty points over the Interceptor? Are either of them threatening enough by themselves to draw fire away from twenty Wulfen?

No, i would go stormfang. Me and a local friend have different opinions on the stormfang, i say make it as cheap as possible so its loss doesnt hurt as much, he says give it the quad melta so once you hit 24" range / 12" range you can do some serious anti tank work.

Azuza001 wrote:
No, i would go stormfang. Me and a local friend have different opinions on the stormfang, i say make it as cheap as possible so its loss doesnt hurt as much, he says give it the quad melta so once you hit 24" range / 12" range you can do some serious anti tank work.

I think I’m on your side in this case, take the Heavy Bolters and shred some squishy targets. The Multi-Meltas are either going to hit shields or be overkill. Why is the Interceptor no good?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
No, i would go stormfang. Me and a local friend have different opinions on the stormfang, i say make it as cheap as possible so its loss doesnt hurt as much, he says give it the quad melta so once you hit 24" range / 12" range you can do some serious anti tank work.

I think I’m on your side in this case, take the Heavy Bolters and shred some squishy targets. The Multi-Meltas are either going to hit shields or be overkill. Why is the Interceptor no good?

Eh, 4 multi-meltas targeting vehicles/monsters aren't that great. Assuming a t7 target. 4 shots hitting on 3+ (8/3 hit), wounding on 3+ (16/9), then doing on average 4.5 damage in MM range results in expecting 8 wounds. Assuming no save or penalties for shooting. Rerolling a failed hit/wound helps make the kill, but they are expensive for what they do.

I agree that it's much better to buy the HB. Invest those leftover points into a longfang las team for better threat coverage.

I tipycally bring the Gunship to the battle field, at 259 points it's a steal. 5 WG with storm bolters and chainswords inside, which are only 85 points but a decent min squad. I also bring Arjac and Wulfen/Wulfen Stone pretty much everytime so even those 5 dudes could do very well against infantries. Otherwise I'd run it empty or even with 5 Grey Hunters inside.

The Stormwolf with Wulfen inside is a priority target, and Wulfen are already effective by outflanking. 15 Blood Claws could be a better option.

The most important thing about the two flyers is to avoid the most expensive weapons on them. Lascannons and heavy bolters are already fine, combined with the main frost weapon. Avoid meltas.

I've been running a Stormwolf with a Rune Priest, WGBL, WP and five wulfen with hammers inside. Turn one nuking has not happened yet.

Rune Priest gets out turn one, goes three inches and then moves up behind the stormwolf. Casts his stuff and grants that -1 to hit and then gives an enemy unit -1 to hit.

Works pretty good IMO, when backed up by a Crusader / Gallant and two helverins marching forward too.

Waste time on the wulfen pinata or shoot something more potent?

CatGotYourLas wrote:
I've been running a Stormwolf with a Rune Priest, WGBL, WP and five wulfen with hammers inside. Turn one nuking has not happened yet.

Rune Priest gets out turn one, goes three inches and then moves up behind the stormwolf. Casts his stuff and grants that -1 to hit and then gives an enemy unit -1 to hit.

Works pretty good IMO, when backed up by a Crusader / Gallant and two helverins marching forward too.

Waste time on the wulfen pinata or shoot something more potent?

Like I said above, a Knight or a few are definitely going to help it survive. However in a mono SW build your Wulfen flyer is going to be toast. Also I would think there were better uses for 3cp in a Knight heavy list than using them on the -1 hit bubble.

 Weazel wrote:

CatGotYourLas wrote:
I've been running a Stormwolf with a Rune Priest, WGBL, WP and five wulfen with hammers inside. Turn one nuking has not happened yet.

Rune Priest gets out turn one, goes three inches and then moves up behind the stormwolf. Casts his stuff and grants that -1 to hit and then gives an enemy unit -1 to hit.

Works pretty good IMO, when backed up by a Crusader / Gallant and two helverins marching forward too.

Waste time on the wulfen pinata or shoot something more potent?

Like I said above, a Knight or a few are definitely going to help it survive. However in a mono SW build your Wulfen flyer is going to be toast. Also I would think there were better uses for 3cp in a Knight heavy list than using them on the -1 hit bubble.

With that -2 to hit it still takes massive fire. People in my meta know what wulfen do. Since I'm the only SW player running wulfen they know I like this trick. So it's fun making them work for it. They definitely know the wulfen are scary, even if there's no good armored target for me to aim them at they'll still prioritize them over the knights.

And I agree. Even with 11 CP I find there little room to take CP away from the knights. Especially since House Raven stratagem eats so much CP. And RIS being a life saver on the crusader.

Okay, I’m giving the StormFang a go. The list -

Supreme Command
Bjorn + Twin LasCanon
Rune Priest + Jump Pack + Force Axe
Rune Priest + Force Axe

Vanguard
Wolf Priest + Jump Pack + Storm Bolter
Chaplain Dread + Twin LasCanon
10x Wulfen + 6xTH/SS + 4x FC
5x Wulfen + 3x TH/SS + 2x FC
5x Wulfen + 3x TH/SS + 2x FC
Storm Fang + Heavy Bolters + Twin LasCanon

Hopefully I’ll cause some mayhem.

I have a feeling that with chapter approved possibly dropping next week for pre orders, we will have many things to rethink and is rumored that terminators will get a fix...

 lonewolf81 wrote:
I have a feeling that with chapter approved possibly dropping next week for pre orders, we will have many things to rethink and is rumored that terminators will get a fix...

I am not gonna to rely on that..... it is more likely the Terminators get another round of points drop, hoping their powerfists as well...

We will see. Personally would love to see terminators becoming a viable option.

It is a bit off-topic, but do you guys think we will see 8th edition lasting longer given they have started to sell these Chapter Approved books? Because I think if we get new edition in 2019-2020, then these books are pretty much just another way to milk bit of money... I just personally dislike them putting balance updates behind paywall.

I remember you had to wait years in previous editions to get an update for your army,sometimes editions skipped several armies. At least now there is support to the hobby, and support always comes with a cost.
8th edition feels the most balanced one but it needs some tweeks in the assault phase (boosts) to become ideal.

Power fists won't drop in points, they've already been halved one year ago. WG termies could get a price reduction, maybe.

But I think Wolf/Frost Claws are strongly overcosted, not P.Fists. Forst swords and axes should drop be cheaper too. Fists are also not particularly needed since T. Hammers are more efficient and serve the same role. It's the anti infantry melee loadout that should be cheaper generally speaking for SW, the TWC would also benefit from that.

 lonewolf81 wrote:
I remember you had to wait years in previous editions to get an update for your army,sometimes editions skipped several armies. At least now there is support to the hobby, and support always comes with a cost.
8th edition feels the most balanced one but it needs some tweeks in the assault phase (boosts) to become ideal.

I think you kind of got me wrong. 8th edition is best so far. I just dont agree or accept that with current way of selling rules, if they still keep changing edition with same pace. Because then we just have the same cluster of rules but more books to RE-buy every three years. It wouldnt make sense.

Personally I hope we stick to 8th edition longer than we did with previous ones. Then this setup of books make sense, and is actually consumer friendly.

@Blackie could be, but if we get point reduction in melee weapons, and that combined with our melee abilities in units, it sounds like overly strong buff. I dont see us struggling dealing with infantry by melee. I might miss something here, but TWC seems fine as is point economically wise.

I'll gladly pay for yearly updates if they actually make bold changes for the sake of balance. I really hope that another company independent or semi-independent from GW's financial incentives would make the rules. I mean there might be certain kits that sell well and make good profit leading to reluctance to nerf them. *ahem* Imperial Knights *ahem*

Since i got my codex last of the armies ib my meta, what worked before still works now - except that i make my wolf priest warlord for a 9” re-roll all hits in CC (insanely powerful with wulfen, who attacks again when they die) and a 9” Ld boost. I then give him frostfury, because i only want him in melees that i am sure to win. So basically nothing new units wise.

Problems came when lists with the new knights entered the meta. That relic flamer is as bad as it sounds, and our lists definitely HAS to be able to take it down from range, even with its 3++ from rotating ion shields.

My plan is to go the beastslayer chaplain dreadnought route with Björn, both with twin-lascannon. Not sure three predators are worth it, but then im going with long fangs (starting out of LOS). Want to get the deed off T1, and watch IK players weep as the dreadnoughts hit and wound on 2s, with rerolls. If he charges, they can both HI 6”, and hurt even more in CC.

I dont list tailor though, so whatever i come up with still has to be able to beat the rest of the meta, which is most often TS/tzeentch and DG/nurgle.