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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I was thinking about this last night while looking at the Deathwing Knights rules, which I may be wrong but are the closest non-custodes unit to a Guardian out there. 4/4 that can become 5/4, with a 2+4++5+++ and 4-5 attacks depending on litany, phase, and spells, has re-roll wounds, and can get + to wounds, for around 47 points. And you can squad them in groups of 3-5 I think. They also get the Mace of absolution that is a TH with no neg to hit.

We have roughly the same stat line with better S/T, less attacks, less but stonger shooting, and weaker attacks, S5/6 depending on weapon. We get a better invuln option with shield, but we get more cost.

I think we need to get nerfed in order to get buffed. If we intend to stay at S5T5, then we need to go UP in costs before we can start talking about Buffs to weapon S.

I would rather see us go to S/T4, get a drop in price, but get Plus 1/2 in Weapon Strength. If we stay S/T5, I think raise us to base 60 points, and give us the Weapon buffs. The S/T tax is really the breaker for us. With it we need to cost more and can't have stronger weapons without being broken, without it we are just Golden Astartes and why even have us as a faction?

We need to go up in cost if we are getting any buffs.

I am all for our guys increasing in cost if our weapons get appropriately better and get more abilities etc.
If we ever get nerfed to T/S 4 then I'm done. Since they moved away from WS and BS values there are even fewer things that differentiate units from each other. No, we need to be a step above marines both in stats and abilities, but more expensive. Also if they really move away from 3+ invulns across all factions, GW has to throw us a bone, cause that one of the few things that makes our shieldguys worthwhile compared to marines.

We shouldn't be invulnerable, but we should hit harder. The problem is, there are already units that basically have what we have, but only slightly less cost. We cannot get better without a cost. That's all I am saying.

Custodes/Sisters piloted by John Lennon just won Las Vegas Nopen.

Bloody Rose Battalion
Canoness - Null Rod, Beacon of Faith, Litanies of Faith
Missionary
3x5 Battle Sisters
2x2 Death Cult Assassins
2x8 Repentia in 2x Rhinos
3x5 Retributors - 2x MM + Armorium Cherub

Shadowkeepers Detachment
Trajann
Bike Captain - Auric Aquilas, Indomitable Constitution
2x5 Custodian Guard w/ Storm Shields

artific3r wrote:
Custodes/Sisters piloted by John Lennon just won Las Vegas Nopen.

Bloody Rose Battalion
Canoness - Null Rod, Beacon of Faith, Litanies of Faith
Missionary
3x5 Battle Sisters
2x2 Death Cult Assassins
2x8 Repentia in 2x Rhinos
3x5 Retributors - 2x MM + Armorium Cherub

Shadowkeepers Detachment
Trajann
Bike Captain - Auric Aquilas, Indomitable Constitution
2x5 Custodian Guard w/ Storm Shields

I watched that game, at least in parts....and that shield wall of custodian guard held a really, really long time. Very strong list apparently, really hard to chew through that, especially that bike captain with indomitable constituation....jeez.

Tiberias wrote:

artific3r wrote:
Custodes/Sisters piloted by John Lennon just won Las Vegas Nopen.

Bloody Rose Battalion
Canoness - Null Rod, Beacon of Faith, Litanies of Faith
Missionary
3x5 Battle Sisters
2x2 Death Cult Assassins
2x8 Repentia in 2x Rhinos
3x5 Retributors - 2x MM + Armorium Cherub

Shadowkeepers Detachment
Trajann
Bike Captain - Auric Aquilas, Indomitable Constitution
2x5 Custodian Guard w/ Storm Shields

I watched that game, at least in parts....and that shield wall of custodian guard held a really, really long time. Very strong list apparently, really hard to chew through that, especially that bike captain with indomitable constituation....jeez.

Give the Jetbike Captain Superior Creation on top of it if you really don't want him going anywhere.

This is basically just using as as campers and then the Sisters to do actual damage because we're not great at that. It's not a bad idea.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
GW gotta sell those minis man, happens every time a new model gets released.

To be fair, don't protest too loudly, if this is the baseline for other factions, imagine the levels of crazyness they are going to give Custodes....

Buffs to one faction's units DO NOT automatically translate to another faction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We shouldn't be invulnerable, but we should hit harder. The problem is, there are already units that basically have what we have, but only slightly less cost. We cannot get better without a cost. That's all I am saying.

It's not even slightly.

It's at significantly less cost.

stratigo wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
GW gotta sell those minis man, happens every time a new model gets released.

To be fair, don't protest too loudly, if this is the baseline for other factions, imagine the levels of crazyness they are going to give Custodes....

Buffs to one faction's units DO NOT automatically translate to another faction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We shouldn't be invulnerable, but we should hit harder. The problem is, there are already units that basically have what we have, but only slightly less cost. We cannot get better without a cost. That's all I am saying.

It's not even slightly.

It's at significantly less cost.

The Deathwing knight costs over 40 with all his gear, and to even approach the S5T5 statline he needs: best doctrine, best phase, best litany, and best spells. Also WL trait. We get all that for free basically. He just gets more attacks at S8, We still have mastercrafted bolters, spears, and S6 AP3 hitting. I don't think we are too far apart. We lack in attacking, but beat them hands down in staying power. Also they have Ro3, and we can take 5-6 squads of 10 guys.

Is there any canon source that might indicate Custodes ever using chaplains, or litanies? That could easily buff us, give it to the flag bearers. Use this turn to shout encouragement to your brothers, boosting strength by 1, or AP by 1, or Damage by 1. That way we get flat 2 on anything we stab?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

stratigo wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
GW gotta sell those minis man, happens every time a new model gets released.

To be fair, don't protest too loudly, if this is the baseline for other factions, imagine the levels of crazyness they are going to give Custodes....

Buffs to one faction's units DO NOT automatically translate to another faction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We shouldn't be invulnerable, but we should hit harder. The problem is, there are already units that basically have what we have, but only slightly less cost. We cannot get better without a cost. That's all I am saying.

It's not even slightly.

It's at significantly less cost.

The Deathwing knight costs over 40 with all his gear, and to even approach the S5T5 statline he needs: best doctrine, best phase, best litany, and best spells. Also WL trait. We get all that for free basically. He just gets more attacks at S8, We still have mastercrafted bolters, spears, and S6 AP3 hitting. I don't think we are too far apart. We lack in attacking, but beat them hands down in staying power. Also they have Ro3, and we can take 5-6 squads of 10 guys.

Is there any canon source that might indicate Custodes ever using chaplains, or litanies? That could easily buff us, give it to the flag bearers. Use this turn to shout encouragement to your brothers, boosting strength by 1, or AP by 1, or Damage by 1. That way we get flat 2 on anything we stab?

Deathwing knights also have:
1+ armor save
transhuman all the time
the ability to deny one psychic power per game
immunity to moral
3 dmg weapon


Custodes don't have chaplain and IMO it wouldn't make any sense if they had them.

I guess you are right, though I still say S/T 5 makes up for a lot.

Morality isn't really a problem for Custodes is it? Even with the new changes, the likelihood of us loosing models to combat attrition is next to zero. Unless we are taking large groups of 5+ models, in which case, wut?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess you are right, though I still say S/T 5 makes up for a lot.

Morality isn't really a problem for Custodes is it? Even with the new changes, the likelihood of us loosing models to combat attrition is next to zero. Unless we are taking large groups of 5+ models, in which case, wut?

Our custodian guard shouldn't be leadership 8 though, makes zero sense. Also can make a difference, in the las vegas nopen final the custodes/sisters player lost a shield guy to morale, which wasn't trivial due to objective holding.

I'm not putting up a blanket statement that custodes should be immune to moral from a game design standpoint, but from a lore perspective it makes no sense that we should take morale tests at all, let alone that our troops are Ld 8.

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess you are right, though I still say S/T 5 makes up for a lot.

Morality isn't really a problem for Custodes is it? Even with the new changes, the likelihood of us loosing models to combat attrition is next to zero. Unless we are taking large groups of 5+ models, in which case, wut?

Our custodian guard shouldn't be leadership 8 though, makes zero sense. Also can make a difference, in the las vegas nopen final the custodes/sisters player lost a shield guy to morale, which wasn't trivial due to objective holding.

I'm not putting up a blanket statement that custodes should be immune to moral from a game design standpoint, but from a lore perspective it makes no sense that we should take morale tests at all, let alone that our troops are Ld 8.

If I understand you, you are saying that Custodes shouldn't have morale problems. At all, like ever. Because Lore? By Lore standards the Astartes shouldn't have moral problems, they are literally incapable of fear, unless made to feel it due to chaos. I am hesitant to go down lore roads with Custodes, because if Lore is king, the Custodes shouldn't exist as a faction. Unless you count the new retcon as lore. I do and I do not. I don't think the Primaris should exist, and I don't think the Custodes should be leading Crusades.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess you are right, though I still say S/T 5 makes up for a lot.

Morality isn't really a problem for Custodes is it? Even with the new changes, the likelihood of us loosing models to combat attrition is next to zero. Unless we are taking large groups of 5+ models, in which case, wut?

Our custodian guard shouldn't be leadership 8 though, makes zero sense. Also can make a difference, in the las vegas nopen final the custodes/sisters player lost a shield guy to morale, which wasn't trivial due to objective holding.

I'm not putting up a blanket statement that custodes should be immune to moral from a game design standpoint, but from a lore perspective it makes no sense that we should take morale tests at all, let alone that our troops are Ld 8.

If I understand you, you are saying that Custodes shouldn't have morale problems. At all, like ever. Because Lore? By Lore standards the Astartes shouldn't have moral problems, they are literally incapable of fear, unless made to feel it due to chaos. I am hesitant to go down lore roads with Custodes, because if Lore is king, the Custodes shouldn't exist as a faction. Unless you count the new retcon as lore. I do and I do not. I don't think the Primaris should exist, and I don't think the Custodes should be leading Crusades.

I literally said in my post that I don't want to make a blanket statement that custodes should be immune to moral from a game design standpoint. Our custodian guard being Ld 8 is dumb though, they should be Ld 9 at least.
Wardens should be immune to moral for sure though, same as deathwing knights....would fit them quite well also.

Our basic troop being the same Ld as a squad captain or 600yr old+ eldar is not a bad thing.

We rarely loose any models to morale unless we take a squad of 10, and if your opponent fired his whole army into your 10 man squad and only killed 6, loosing one to morale is not a big issue.

We can also still pay 2 CP to auto-pass morale if need be.



We literally just need 1 thing to be competitive in 9th as a solo army, and thats damage increase.

Our durability is fine as it is. We just fall far behind any of the current 9th codex's in Damage output per point.

I dont want +1 attack on the charge or +1 to wound on the charge or any of that marine stuff either.

Just increasing our base volume of fire/attacks by 1 and not nerfing the few units that had decent damage output (Grav tanks) is enough to keep us up with the joneses.
Mabey take our vehicles base invun away and give them back the actual Flare shield ability (reduce strength of incoming shots by 1, 2 if blast).


This can be done easy by rolling in strats to our stat blocks. Permanent Superior Fire Patterns is one fix. Permanent Avenge the Fallen is another.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Our basic troop being the same Ld as a squad captain or 600yr old+ eldar is not a bad thing.

We rarely loose any models to morale unless we take a squad of 10, and if your opponent fired his whole army into your 10 man squad and only killed 6, loosing one to morale is not a big issue.

We can also still pay 2 CP to auto-pass morale if need be.



We literally just need 1 thing to be competitive in 9th as a solo army, and thats damage increase.

Our durability is fine as it is. We just fall far behind any of the current 9th codex's in Damage output per point.

I dont want +1 attack on the charge or +1 to wound on the charge or any of that marine stuff either.

Just increasing our base volume of fire/attacks by 1 and not nerfing the few units that had decent damage output (Grav tanks) is enough to keep us up with the joneses.
Mabey take our vehicles base invun away and give them back the actual Flare shield ability (reduce strength of incoming shots by 1, 2 if blast).


This can be done easy by rolling in strats to our stat blocks. Permanent Superior Fire Patterns is one fix. Permanent Avenge the Fallen is another.

If we're arguing from a lore perspective, then I have to disagree with your point about leadership, but whatever. Like you said, it can come up, but it's a fringe issue. I still believe our troops should be Ld 9, characters Ld10 and wardens should be fearless.

I agree with the rest though, consistent dmg and more special abilities, that preferably also tie into our thematic, is the way to go.

Edit: back to actual tactics discussion though. In the las vegas nopen there was a pure custodes list as far as I can recall. I only managed to watch the finale, does someone know how the pure custodes list performed?

We need one thing to be effective: Sisters as Keyword Custodes Troop choice. Bam, 50 point bolter squads that shore up psyker defense, and hold objectives with ObSec and Custodes Invulns. I don't think we are THAT far off being great, we just need less worthless Troop choices.

Tactics question: What is the most effective soup choice for Psykers? Three Primaris Librarians in a seperate Detachment? They are at least able to hold objectives, grant buffs, and aren't worthless as psykers. Are there any Imperial Psyker abilities that really mesh well with Custodes?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Our basic troop being the same Ld as a squad captain or 600yr old+ eldar is not a bad thing.


This can be done easy by rolling in strats to our stat blocks. Permanent Superior Fire Patterns is one fix. Permanent Avenge the Fallen is another.

I love this idea, but it's wishlisting and I don't see us ever becoming more deadly in Melee. Avenge the Fallen is a nice gimmick, but too op to be permanent. If they have us +1 Strength or bonus to AP that would be more tolerable. I would love Base rapid fire 4 weapons, and bikes shooting at base 24 shots inside 12 inches. That would get UGLY.

I have to ask, does anyone see Sag becoming more of a staple given how shooty 9th is shaping up to be?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Our basic troop being the same Ld as a squad captain or 600yr old+ eldar is not a bad thing.


This can be done easy by rolling in strats to our stat blocks. Permanent Superior Fire Patterns is one fix. Permanent Avenge the Fallen is another.

I love this idea, but it's wishlisting and I don't see us ever becoming more deadly in Melee. Avenge the Fallen is a nice gimmick, but too op to be permanent. If they have us +1 Strength or bonus to AP that would be more tolerable. I would love Base rapid fire 4 weapons, and bikes shooting at base 24 shots inside 12 inches. That would get UGLY.

I have to ask, does anyone see Sag becoming more of a staple given how shooty 9th is shaping up to be?

I honestly can't speak to the level of overall shootyness of 9th, but I think sagittarum guard are going to be seen in lists quite often simply because they are just a very, very solid unit all around. They have very good shooting since the FW update with flat 2 dmg, which becomes more and more important, and they can fight surprisingly well when equipped with misericordias (which you should always do if you can spare the points).
They are obviously not as tanky as our shield guys, but they can actively contribute from a backfield objective and chip off some wounds from enemy units with their decent firepower. You can also effectively push them up the board and threaten gravis marines with their flat 3dmg profile.

So yeah, they are imo very, very versatile and depending on what the focus of you specific army list is going to be, I'd recommend using them. I would not label them an absolute must take however, simply due to the fact that we are now in a position where we can make a lot of different builds. They might not be needed, depending on the focus of your specific list, but they are never a bad choice is what I am saying.

How about this for hilariously broken Jank:

We: Custodes; get our own Mortarian. Supreme Warlord - The Emperor of Man: S/T 9 25 wounds, Psker, can cast 3, deny 3, 12 re-roll all aura, 1+2++3+++ with 9 attacks at AP 5 D4 damage. Fly.

With the way these codexes are dropping where each one is so powerful, I don't see how we bet buffed in the next one.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How about this for hilariously broken Jank:

We: Custodes; get our own Mortarian. Supreme Warlord - The Emperor of Man: S/T 9 25 wounds, Psker, can cast 3, deny 3, 12 re-roll all aura, 1+2++3+++ with 9 attacks at AP 5 D4 damage. Fly.

With the way these codexes are dropping where each one is so powerful, I don't see how we bet buffed in the next one.

Yeah, as fun as it is theorizing, that is never going to happen. At least not in 40k.
In 30k FW might release an emperor miniature and rules for him as well when the horus heresy books draw to a close, alongside corrupted horus to depict their epic duel, which shaped and defined the setting of 40k greatly. Can't imagine they'd pass up that opportunity.

As to your second question: we already discussed at length how we can get buffed. Slightly better weapon profiles with consistent dmg and some additional special rules for our units instead of some sort of doctrines since we are not space marines. This might increase our cost per model, but if the price hikes are not too steep and in balance with the power level of the buffs, I'd be fine with that.

Right, but look at the leap of DG or BA or even DA from 8th, to 9th. Their effectiveness is orders of magnitude greater now. If the codex leaks are true. I don't see how a codex could make give us that sort of boost. I hate to use this analogy, but the DA/BA/DG boost was almost Kiao-kenish.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right, but look at the leap of DG or BA or even DA from 8th, to 9th. Their effectiveness is orders of magnitude greater now. If the codex leaks are true. I don't see how a codex could make give us that sort of boost. I hate to use this analogy, but the DA/BA/DG boost was almost Kiao-kenish.

We don't need that kind of boost I think. We are already quite strong. A gentle push towards better and more interesting weapon profiles as well es some extra abilities baked into our main units is all it takes.
Though I can see custodes players being put off by the inner circle rule of the new dark angels. Permanent transhuman is just a dumb rule, but I digress.

I think it's hilarious that we need better options given that we basically have S6 melee attacking with Melta guns baked in, or a master crafted bolter baked in, or a HB as stock weapons for troops. We also have a wierd mashup of some form of Grav-gun/overcharged plasma thing with a spear on it. The only thing we don't have is Flamer spears. Wouldn't that be something? Spears and swords with Heavy Flamers.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think it's hilarious that we need better options given that we basically have S6 melee attacking with Melta guns baked in, or a master crafted bolter baked in, or a HB as stock weapons for troops. We also have a wierd mashup of some form of Grav-gun/overcharged plasma thing with a spear on it. The only thing we don't have is Flamer spears. Wouldn't that be something? Spears and swords with Heavy Flamers.

Getting the flamers as a pistol would be awesome on a flamer spear.



But I digress.
Custodes need to move away from d3 weapons. But I don't think otherwise the basic statline needs to change much.
Its just that DG and DA terminators are criminally underpriced for what they bring, and otherwise are due for nerfbatting.

I got people at the local shop who say "Your better base stat-line is your specialty".


Ok, thats fine, if i dont have to pay points for it.

New books are getting free rules left and right they dont pay for.

Its getting so bad now (Dark Angels supp), that even ultramarine players are whinging because they dont get as many free rules as DA.



You wants custodes better stats to be their free rules and we'll call it a day.

Sword guard are now 37 points apiece and Spear guard are 35.

Wardens are 42pts apiece, Venetari are 47, Bikers and Aquillons drop to 70 each, allarus back down to 65/w spears.

Now we wont ask for any more free rules..... problem solved.

Our statline really just needs +1W I feel. Gravis armor is infringing on our territory too much.

I've said it once and I'll say it again:

Bring swords/spears into alignment with force weapons (as they started out). So +1 S on swords, +2S on spears.

Make all weapons flat 2, but axes flat 3.

Give all Custodes +1W across the board.

That PROBABLY does it. If we still need a little push then re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 for a pure army should do it.

Just as a quality of life, our FNP needs to be made for all MW too, not just psychic phase.

Audustum wrote:
Our statline really just needs +1W I feel. Gravis armor is infringing on our territory too much.

I've said it once and I'll say it again:

Bring swords/spears into alignment with force weapons (as they started out). So +1 S on swords, +2S on spears.

Make all weapons flat 2, but axes flat 3.

Give all Custodes +1W across the board.

That PROBABLY does it. If we still need a little push then re-roll invulnerable saves of 1 for a pure army should do it.

Just as a quality of life, our FNP needs to be made for all MW too, not just psychic phase.

That sounds reasonable. I can't assess whether an ability to re-roll 1s on invulns would be too powerful. However, if we do in fact lose our 3+ invulns on shields and on characters like all other armies, I think we need such an ability or at least something similar.

Edit: I've said this oftentimes already, but it is going to be nearly impossible to express the difference in stats between a guardsman a space marine and a custodian properly due to us being limited to a D6 system. You can't just power creep endlessly like a trading card game to show the hierarchy of personal, individual power of those factions.
But you somehow have to express the differences in capability between guardsman, marine and custodian, otherwise you lose part of the faction identity. If every one is special, no one is and the lines are blurry already. At least between marines and the golden boys.
So what can be done apart from the weapon buffs you mentioned? Imo, more thematic special abilities for our units that are exclusive to us.
In 7th ed our guardian spears had a rule where you could block incoming attacks if you rolled higher on a D6 than the attacker. Would that be too strong nowadays? Maybe, I don't know, but you get the point. What if charging enemy units get mortal wounds on a 4+ when they charge a unit that has guardian spears in them? Something like that. I feel there is a lot they could do in that area.

Thing is, if we keep buffing the Defense and Armor abilities of units, that goes hand in hand with buffing the killiness of units. Someone put it really well a few pages back,

We had armor saves and Invulns were rare, then we bumped up invulns and Mortal wounds were rare, then we bumped up MWs and FnPs were Rare, now FnPs are super prevalent, and we have units running around with 2+3++5+++, that hit like a truck. What then do we do to in any way stop this happening to Custodes?

I don't want us to be able to mortals on our weapons, because then the response to that will be equally borked. We need to stop the power creep. Custodes are fine right now. I would really like us to cost the same as DW terminators or BGVs, but that will likely never happen. I don't want to see any major changes to the faction because the DAs got buffs, and we have to be better than DA, because lore.

I am really tired of the rediculous levels of creep in 9th. I thought the BA were bad, until I saw the DG, then I saw the DA, next up is Drukari, which better not be even worse, or I may just sit out this edition and only play 8th.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, if we keep buffing the Defense and Armor abilities of units, that goes hand in hand with buffing the killiness of units. Someone put it really well a few pages back,

We had armor saves and Invulns were rare, then we bumped up invulns and Mortal wounds were rare, then we bumped up MWs and FnPs were Rare, now FnPs are super prevalent, and we have units running around with 2+3++5+++, that hit like a truck. What then do we do to in any way stop this happening to Custodes?

I don't want us to be able to mortals on our weapons, because then the response to that will be equally borked. We need to stop the power creep. Custodes are fine right now. I would really like us to cost the same as DW terminators or BGVs, but that will likely never happen. I don't want to see any major changes to the faction because the DAs got buffs, and we have to be better than DA, because lore.

I am really tired of the rediculous levels of creep in 9th. I thought the BA were bad, until I saw the DG, then I saw the DA, next up is Drukari, which better not be even worse, or I may just sit out this edition and only play 8th.

I get your point, I really do. I just really think that, IF done properly, you could add thematic special abilities to our units that would make them stand out. just a little bit. We don't have to be miles ahead of a deathshroud terminator, just a few meters...if that analogy makes sense. Unless, like you said, our terminators drop in points, but I really don't see that happening.
The golden boys lore is actually quite well represented on the tabletop if we are honest, we have the best infantry stat line in the game. I would even argue that we have the best infrantry statline that you can feasably create with a D6 system and a stat range from 1-10. It's just that this does not necessarily translate into combat effectiveness compared to new space marines for example. Because of all the amazing special rules and buffs they get for free, they feel like coming close to our guys in individual power, even though they have worse statlines. Which is why I am saying we don't need much to regain our feel of "superior elite low model count army", just one decent, thematic special rule for each unit, or unit type and a small weapon fix.

Also IF we lose our access to 3+ invulns I feel we need an additional wound like Audustum suggested. If we get to keep 3+ invulns an additional wound might be too good maybe....not sure.

I would like to see some of our less valuable units enter into a more valuable role? Wardens? I have three unopened boxes that I have never even considered opening. Why? They are statistically inferior terminators. Why not give them some special love.

"Wardens lock" Ability: All enemies in combat with Wardens are unable to fall back or leave combat with Wardens. All units in combat with Wardens also suffer -2 to all morale rolls.

Wardens could also use that as a Strat, which I think would be fun. 1 squad of wardens locking down a knight, lol.

I've also heard from people that they homebrewed wardens to be able to get a round of shooting against any unit that leaves combat from them.

I also think Character Targeting should be stock baked into every Custodes unit in the faction. These guys are hard wired geniuses and tactical masterminds to rival even two creeds. They should be able to spot a "leader" or HQ, and coordinate in combat to take them out.

@Fezzik Iike those ideas for wardens, those guys need some love.

On another note GW just postet a new errata on warhammer community with points updates and as far as I can see our standard vexillus just got more expensive, increasing by 20points and the vexilla magnifica is no longer free, it costs 10points now. The other banners still seem to be free, since they are not listet with an additional cost, just the magnifica is.

So a standard vexillus praetor, with axe or stormshield and
vexilla magnifica now costs 125points. So it was a mistake after all, oh well....

Edit: Vexillus in terminator armor also got a price hike of 30 points when equipped with the magnifica, rest of our codex units stayed the same btw.