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2021/01/24 18:20:37
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Does Emperor's Auspice prevent rerolls for plague weapons? I believe it does.
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2021/01/24 18:39:56
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
iGuy91 wrote: Does Emperor's Auspice prevent rerolls for plague weapons? I believe it does.
That's a lotta precious CP to stop us from eating attacks. Unless I was lied to this weekend that only stops the to-hit rerolls, not the to-wound, or the command re-rolls.
2021/01/24 20:34:49
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Regarding characters we need to watch out for: the foul blightspawn.
It has an aura that makes charging units not count as charging. Tabletop Titans mentioned this tactic: if you put a foul blightspawn in front of a unit of deathshroud terminators, you make that terminator unit basically unchargeable and you won't be able to shoot the foul blightspawn either because of the bodyguard ability of the deathshorud terminators...really annoying.
I also think that you can't even take out the foul blightspawn with a unit of allarus and the "inescapable vengeance" strat, if the foul blightspawn is within of 3" of deathshroud terminators, because their bodyguard aura takes precedence over the strats "ignore look out sir" rule
2021/01/24 21:08:47
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
iGuy91 wrote: Does Emperor's Auspice prevent rerolls for plague weapons? I believe it does.
That's a lotta precious CP to stop us from eating attacks. Unless I was lied to this weekend that only stops the to-hit rerolls, not the to-wound, or the command re-rolls.
You were lied to. It's all re-rolls from all sources, including commanf re-rolls, plague weapons, e.t.c. The text is that it stops all re-rolls when resolving an attack. Resolving includes hit, wound and damage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberias wrote: Regarding characters we need to watch out for: the foul blightspawn.
It has an aura that makes charging units not count as charging. Tabletop Titans mentioned this tactic: if you put a foul blightspawn in front of a unit of deathshroud terminators, you make that terminator unit basically unchargeable and you won't be able to shoot the foul blightspawn either because of the bodyguard ability of the deathshorud terminators...really annoying.
I also think that you can't even take out the foul blightspawn with a unit of allarus and the "inescapable vengeance" strat, if the foul blightspawn is within of 3" of deathshroud terminators, because their bodyguard aura takes precedence over the strats "ignore look out sir" rule
Blightspawns were nerfed to only target one unit to fight last UNLESS you give them a relic, but yes, still dangerous.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/24 21:16:10
2021/01/24 22:05:42
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Thank you for clearing that up for me Audustum, truth be told, I really have no doubt he would have won regardless. My list was pretty badly represented in all facets/phases. I think I may have gotten about 15 of his models off the board before he just walloped me. We, as the most "Elite" army/faction in the game save Knights, cannot afford to lose even a single model. DG can loose half their force and still be effective at holding objectives and running out the clock.
I will say 9th is very confusing for me, I am struggling to forget 8th still.
2021/01/24 22:13:34
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I will say 9th is very confusing for me, I am struggling to forget 8th still.
if it makes you feel better, as and when the lockdown allows me to actually PLAY a game, i will end up trying to forget 3rd/4th edition ideas of how to play.
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2021/01/24 23:45:46
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I will say 9th is very confusing for me, I am struggling to forget 8th still.
if it makes you feel better, as and when the lockdown allows me to actually PLAY a game, i will end up trying to forget 3rd/4th edition ideas of how to play.
Now I just feel bad for you. That sounds like my having to go from DND 3rd to DND 5th. I still hate how every character is a goddamned super hero by level 5 with minimal effort. I assume it will be the same for you in this edition. I learned 7th just as 8th dropped, and then 9th completely flipped the script again. Not that it's bad changes, just not used to it yet. Then again I am playing the simplest faction in the game, so there is that.
2021/01/25 10:34:50
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Custodes are far and bye not a simple faction. In fact, we have some of the hardest decisions to make as far as how we deploy and judging how much of our force to dedicate to any particular front on the table.
Since our invuns and damage rolls are so swingy, we cant trust our damage output or durability to know exactly how much we should push or hide.
You almost have to know other factions better than our own to do well competitively.
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2021/01/25 11:32:59
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Eihnlazer wrote: Custodes are far and bye not a simple faction. In fact, we have some of the hardest decisions to make as far as how we deploy and judging how much of our force to dedicate to any particular front on the table.
Since our invuns and damage rolls are so swingy, we cant trust our damage output or durability to know exactly how much we should push or hide.
You almost have to know other factions better than our own to do well competitively.
I don't mean to demean our faction, but we are NOT complicated. Take deathwatch for instance, they are super micro heavy, and have 50 possible alternative actions they can take every turn. Custodes have one job, get in close and punch things until they are off the board. We don't even have psykers because that would be complicated and get in the way of our punchiness. Nope, just good old fashioned charge, punch, repeat. Unless you are an all sword and board, then it's even worse. Just sit there and wait to get punched, then punch back. I know you CAN do a lot with Custodes, but you should really just focus on the one strength we have, which is punching stuff, REALLY HARD. We are Goku from DBZA.
2021/01/25 19:01:23
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Yeah if your talking about simple as in amount of things we have to do.
Im talking about how even though we have the stat block that looks like point and click, we are definately not.
In the competitive scene its a litteral gamble to charge forward every time with custodes. Plans on the tabletop will never hold up for an entire tournament because of our swingy nature.
The other army that has to worry about 4+ saves and random damage (harlequins) doesnt have to worry about positioning (because of their insane speed) or running out of dudes (cause they outnumber us 3-1 and have transports worth using).
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2021/01/25 19:21:02
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Eh, no point discussing what faction is hard to play or not.
Every faction is difficult to master, because to really master your faction, you not only need to know everything about your own, but you also need extensive knowledge about most other factions as well and how they play against you. It kinda evens out.
Also yeah, gsc has a lot of micromanagement for example, but custodes have to arguably make really tough choices with the few models they have available etc.
2021/01/25 22:02:09
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
yhea, i can see it being a "paucity of options" vs "analysis paralysis" situation. Its one type of diffcult if you have to get 4 units to co-operate to make a effect on the enemy, but its a equal but different type of difficult if your faced with 3 objectives and 2 units to take them with.
having actually ALSO gone form 3.x to 5th ed DnD in the last year, i can say that wasn't actually that big a switch, honestly. A lot less of a change than the one between 2nd and 3rd, frankly.
On 40K again, i think my issues will not so much be in the actual mechanics of the game (many of which havent changed that much, and frankly are simpler now, with less table lookups), but rather in intuiting the "game effect" of a given potential action. For example, i wont be able to quik-maff the potential targets for a units shooting with any degree of accuracy, so i'll either assigning too much, too little, or both in the same phase, or i working out when to use a re-roll or defensive strat, and when to just take it on the chin.
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2021/01/26 11:45:59
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
xerxeskingofking wrote: yhea, i can see it being a "paucity of options" vs "analysis paralysis" situation. Its one type of diffcult if you have to get 4 units to co-operate to make a effect on the enemy, but its a equal but different type of difficult if your faced with 3 objectives and 2 units to take them with.
having actually ALSO gone form 3.x to 5th ed DnD in the last year, i can say that wasn't actually that big a switch, honestly. A lot less of a change than the one between 2nd and 3rd, frankly.
On 40K again, i think my issues will not so much be in the actual mechanics of the game (many of which havent changed that much, and frankly are simpler now, with less table lookups), but rather in intuiting the "game effect" of a given potential action. For example, i wont be able to quik-maff the potential targets for a units shooting with any degree of accuracy, so i'll either assigning too much, too little, or both in the same phase, or i working out when to use a re-roll or defensive strat, and when to just take it on the chin.
Regarding "intuiting the game effect of a given potential action": you'll have that down in no time for sure. It's also easier in 9th in my opinion because EVERYTHING is so deadly now. I am still of the opinion that it is just ridiculous that our statline is basically nothing impressive anymore, our T5, +2save 4+invuln demigods will just die like flies against weight of dice against most factions (mass shooting, repentias etc.).
This sucks from a game design standpoint imo, but I think it also simplifies things. For example, if you have a unit of allarus terminators on the board and you need them to stick around for at least one turn, you need plan ahead and save at least 3CP for "auramite and adamantium" and "emperors auspice" (maybe transhuman) for them to survive. You can be almost certain that, despite the impressive statline of your allarus, most opponents will certainly have the tools to remove them in a turn, so you also know with a degree of certainty that you need to save some CP for defensive strats to keep them alive. Well, except when your opponent doesn't have any CP left and/or all his strongest units are already dead, but those scenarios are going to be few far between.
My main point is this: you are going to learn the strong wombo combos from other factions pretty quick and you'll then know which of your wombo combos you need to save or have at the ready to counter theirs.
2021/01/26 13:10:17
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
If you had told me 2 years ago that a army comprised of base-line S/T5 W3 2+/4++ models would be "soft" in the next edition, I would have broken my paintbrush in surprise.
Off the aspect of 9th, GW has a real design problem on their hands. How can you promote ELITE style army/faction lists, and still maintain horde gunline style lists? You can't. They tried to give Primaris gunline level shooting at the end of 8th, and people really hated it. They created the Castellan, and people hated it, because it could outshoot anything on the table, and take an army's worth of punishment in return.
I think this is why they still have SoS as Elites, because they know if they were troops it would be broken as all hell.
2021/01/26 22:52:57
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Shield Host: Dread Host
+ HQ +
Captain-General Trajann Valoris
Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: Admonimortis, Captain-Commander, Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Superior Creation, Swift as the Eagle, Warlord
I have additionally a telemon, a third grav tank, and an achilles. 3 addtional bolter aquillons, and 5 additional spear allarus. 1 squad of wichseeker SoS with a rhino, 2 pallas grav assaults, and some assasins. A regular vexilla with a miser, and 6 spear guardians.
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2021/01/27 08:04:14
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Shield Host: Dread Host
+ HQ +
Captain-General Trajann Valoris
Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: Admonimortis, Captain-Commander, Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Superior Creation, Swift as the Eagle, Warlord
I have additionally a telemon, a third grav tank, and an achilles. 3 addtional bolter aquillons, and 5 additional spear allarus. 1 squad of wichseeker SoS with a rhino, 2 pallas grav assaults, and some assasins. A regular vexilla with a miser, and 6 spear guardians.
The shadowkeeper list seems to be a very strong shooting package. Caladius and Trajann are still decently good with he rerolls. Though I would drop the lockwarden shield captain and add a vexillus with magnifica instead. The -1 to hit bubble is still valuable and the lockwarden shield captain with stormshield is hard to shift, but he is slow and not that good at killing stuff.
I really like the dreadhost list. Do you plan on starting the allarus squad on the board and deepstrike the aquilon, terminator captain and vexillus together with the dread host strat in turn 2? I also really love the galatus, but I speak from experience when I say that if you don't deepstrike him or give him some added protection with a -1 to hit banner, he might have a tough time footslogging across the field. If you just plan on having him as a cool distraction carnifex, then footslogging him across the field is fine, but chances are that he won't reach the enemy (depending on matchup), despite being quite a tough cookie.
2021/01/27 09:42:23
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Eihnlazer wrote: Lockwarden cap goes with the shield guard up one flank usually and is good at tying up really nasty stuff.
I usually deepstrike the termies and captain, keeping the vex on the table to buff my guard and giving me access to the Homer strat if need be
If you keep the vex on the board, why not opt for a normal one? The terminator vexillas only advantage imo is that he can deepstrike. Take normal one and slap a stormshield on him, so he can tank a bit too. No downsides to switching to a normal vexilla as far as I can see.
Regarding the lockwarden captain, I get the idea, but does he rally reach the nasty stuff he's supposed to tank when you need him to? He's rather slow and easy to avoid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/27 10:13:57
2021/01/27 12:48:52
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
stratigo wrote: XD Man deathshrouds are so much better than allarus XD XD. Or even Aquillon. They're 25 points cheaper for just a much better set of tools
Well, let's see what happens when our codex is released. Until then, I still think the most efficient way to remove deathshroud and blightlord terminators is with a double fist telemon or an achillus, though the telemon is more efficient I believe.
A double fist telemon would take out about 2-3 deathshroud and take 2-3 dmg in return (quickmaffs don't quote me on this, I'm not the best at mathhammer).
Everything else in our codex really gets hit hard by the -1 dmg and loses efficiency. And all of our terminators don't trade well into deathshroud.
2021/01/27 14:11:11
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I actually won out last night with my all flyers list against a Blood Angels player.
It was all jetbikes and a counts as Ares. I may end up swapping out the Ares for a big pack of jetpack Custodes, because unless I am going up against Morty (I thought I was) the Ares is really over costed for what it can do. The Venetari are really more TAC focused, but the Bikes were the stars of the show. My missile bikes rolled hot all game and took out his entire contingent of jetpack boys on turn 2. The rest of the bikes charged his assault intercessors and made short work of them. I lost 5 bikes however to a set of eradicators and a repulsor.
I really forgot to appreciate how resilient we are.
2021/01/30 12:47:29
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Ok, hold up...let me get this straight. So deathwing gets to keep permanent transhuman, it also works on bladeguard veterans now and they get a relic "pennant of remembrance" where you can pick a deathwing unit in your command phase and that unit is -1dmg from all attacks.
So you can have bladeguard veterans that have permanent transhuman, 2+, 4++, -1dmg and have better weapons than our shield guys ...all for less points? Dude, what?
2021/01/30 13:05:39
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
If that's the baseline I want shootier swords and spears, +1 strength on swords in close combat, +2 strength for spears in Close combat, transhuman on everyone (or something like it), and some new uber unit.
2021/01/31 02:20:11
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I wouldn't mind our bolters going to S5 ap2, but that's a pipe dream. I would love to know if there is any benefit to us getting into the doctrine game. Or for Sisters to get ObSec.
2021/01/31 10:38:22
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I dont want doctrines, but not getting a free turn based bonus is gonna put us behind the game.
I'd rather we got something like:
The Emporer's Will Manifest: On all odd numbered battle round (1,3,5), all custodes units gain +1 to advance and charge rolls. On all even number battle round (2, 4) you gain 2 CP in the command phase instead of 1.
So we get 3 turns of slightly better mobility on our units and 2 extra CP per game.
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2021/01/31 13:39:57
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Eihnlazer wrote: I dont want doctrines, but not getting a free turn based bonus is gonna put us behind the game.
I'd rather we got something like:
The Emporer's Will Manifest: On all odd numbered battle round (1,3,5), all custodes units gain +1 to advance and charge rolls. On all even number battle round (2, 4) you gain 2 CP in the command phase instead of 1.
So we get 3 turns of slightly better mobility on our units and 2 extra CP per game.
Havin those buffs fixed to certain turns would be awful imo. Just give our shield hosts some decent passive buffs and we're golden (pun intended).
2021/01/31 17:10:19
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I was thinking about this last night while looking at the Deathwing Knights rules, which I may be wrong but are the closest non-custodes unit to a Guardian out there. 4/4 that can become 5/4, with a 2+4++5+++ and 4-5 attacks depending on litany, phase, and spells, has re-roll wounds, and can get + to wounds, for around 47 points. And you can squad them in groups of 3-5 I think. They also get the Mace of absolution that is a TH with no neg to hit.
We have roughly the same stat line with better S/T, less attacks, less but stonger shooting, and weaker attacks, S5/6 depending on weapon. We get a better invuln option with shield, but we get more cost.
I think we need to get nerfed in order to get buffed. If we intend to stay at S5T5, then we need to go UP in costs before we can start talking about Buffs to weapon S.
I would rather see us go to S/T4, get a drop in price, but get Plus 1/2 in Weapon Strength. If we stay S/T5, I think raise us to base 60 points, and give us the Weapon buffs. The S/T tax is really the breaker for us. With it we need to cost more and can't have stronger weapons without being broken, without it we are just Golden Astartes and why even have us as a faction?
We need to go up in cost if we are getting any buffs.
2021/01/31 17:31:42
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Changing swords to S+1 and spears to S+2 should be free since it's just keeping us in line with the changes to Force weapons, which our profiles were copied from.
I was thinking a 'pure' bonus for us could be re-rolling invuln saves of 1 and upping the MWFNP to 5+++. As a general quality of life that should be changed to all MW, not just psychic phase ones too. Probably gets us where we need to be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/31 17:32:02
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