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 flaherty wrote:
I

It is frustrating to buy into the hype for something, take in all the content for weeks leading up to the launch, and then get shut out of the party because you couldn't reorient your Saturday afternoon around buying toy soldiers.

Yep. Thats pretty much it in a nutshell. Frustrating new experience has opposed to enjoy and buy the hyped box on your own available hobby time, like I always did.

And that is what this leads to for plenty of people who like the product, potentially would buy it but just cant without paying a fine.

Personally turns me off since toys are not on my life priority list... I think GW misses a big chunk of market penetration with galloping high prices on a small fraction of whats required to buy an army, I mean a starter should be something that attracts you to get more so I do ask... if you would get say 40% of 2 armies in a box is it not more attractive to finish off, than say 20%?

But yes on point Sir, enjoyable turned into a Freaking frustrating stunt.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Togusa wrote:

Cronch wrote:
It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.

What's so wrong with Dominion? 60+ models, a rule book, entry points for the two new armies before their Battletomes come out, Warscroll cards which I personally love to see. What was the downgrade?

Dominion isn’t the downgraded option he’s talking about.

I understand, I just missed the original post. Thanks for the heads up!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 flaherty wrote:
I

It is frustrating to buy into the hype for something, take in all the content for weeks leading up to the launch, and then get shut out of the party because you couldn't reorient your Saturday afternoon around buying toy soldiers.

Yep. Thats pretty much it in a nutshell. Frustrating new experience has opposed to enjoy and buy the hyped box on your own available hobby time, like I always did.

And that is what this leads to for plenty of people who like the product, potentially would buy it but just cant without paying a fine.

Personally turns me off since toys are not on my life priority list... I think GW misses a big chunk of market penetration with galloping high prices on a small fraction of whats required to buy an army, I mean a starter should be something that attracts you to get more so I do ask... if you would get say 40% of 2 armies in a box is it not more attractive to finish off, than say 20%?

But yes on point Sir, enjoyable turned into a Freaking frustrating stunt.

I'm not sure I understand. I have preordered a lot of GW stuff over the last year or so and gotten it all. I ordered it through my FLGS with no problems. Is this a problem people are having when they try to order online or something?

Togusa wrote:
I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not sure I believe you, given that this has happened multiple times and every time it has it gets discussed here.

Togusa wrote:
I have preordered a lot of GW stuff over the last year or so and gotten it all. I ordered it through my FLGS with no problems. Is this a problem people are having when they try to order online or something?

Yes. Again, I'm not sure how you could not know this.

I had to set an alarm and interrupt the lunch I was at to get Cursed City. I ordered it within 1 minute of preorders going live (my confirmation says 12:01 pm). A (literal - not exaggerating) minute later there weren't any left to buy. This is what people are annoyed at, especially because it's so unnecessary.

Beyond the obvious SCE and Kruleboyz tomes, has there been any word on others coming once 3rd drops? (please be NH, please be NH)

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Cronch wrote:
It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.

They do a starter set for 40K. It comes with two forces, a set of terrain including a board, dice, rulers, rule book, literally everything a brand new player needs to play a game with a friend. That’s a starter set. It might not have many minis as Dark Imperium, but that didn’t come with a set of terrain. In my opinion it’s a better starter than Dark Imperium because of that.

A starter set should provide what a brand new novice player needs to get STARTED. Indomitable was a launch box aimed at existing players. It’s a way of launching the new edition with a bit of hype and excitement.

Why is it so difficult to understand the difference? It’s almost as if you’re doing it deliberately.

Because, get this, Indomitus was, in contents, THE SAME as previous STARTER BOXES, except gw didnt include dice and measuring stick. So yes, you call it "a launch box" i call it a starter box with 5 cents of plastic cubes missing. It's not like GW was forced at a gunpoint to withold the dice. It has two STARTING size armies, and a rulebook. It has all you need to START the damn game except some dice that GW decided not to put into the box, despite being able to do so with previous starter boxes since the dawn of time.

And you people go "yep, this isn't a starter, no dice. Yep. I will enjoy the less contents at lesser discount Starter box now!"
Like, come the eff on.

Anyway, I will stop this now, it's clearly pointless, GW said it's not a starter so you lovely folks will happily accept worse deal in shape of the "real" starter. You deserve every single price hike GW pulls off. You deserve to be sold codexes and battletomes with day one errata and you deserve digital codexes being available only as 40k app download code. And you 100% deserve scalpers, after all it's just a limited bundle, not a starter, so it doesn't matter.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Togusa wrote:
I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not sure I believe you, given that this has happened multiple times and every time it has it gets discussed here.

Togusa wrote:
I have preordered a lot of GW stuff over the last year or so and gotten it all. I ordered it through my FLGS with no problems. Is this a problem people are having when they try to order online or something?

Yes. Again, I'm not sure how you could not know this.

I had to set an alarm and interrupt the lunch I was at to get Cursed City. I ordered it within 1 minute of preorders going live (my confirmation says 12:01 pm). A (literal - not exaggerating) minute later there weren't any left to buy. This is what people are annoyed at, especially because it's so unnecessary.

So...order through a GW store or FLGS. I had no issues and got everything I wanted to get with a discount! Sounds like they've taken action this time to prevent that with all the new IP lock outs and printing a whole lot more copies of the Dominion box.

Cronch wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Cronch wrote:
It's not about the stupid box, it literally has nothing I want in it, not even the rulebook. It's about the fact that GW decided to make their offer worse for the customer and apparently...people are just fine with that. Yay for less for more! Yay for being fleeced. Yay for limited products that used to be regular stock items in the past. Cheer for Daddy GW as he downgrades your happy meal.

They do a starter set for 40K. It comes with two forces, a set of terrain including a board, dice, rulers, rule book, literally everything a brand new player needs to play a game with a friend. That’s a starter set. It might not have many minis as Dark Imperium, but that didn’t come with a set of terrain. In my opinion it’s a better starter than Dark Imperium because of that.

A starter set should provide what a brand new novice player needs to get STARTED. Indomitable was a launch box aimed at existing players. It’s a way of launching the new edition with a bit of hype and excitement.

Why is it so difficult to understand the difference? It’s almost as if you’re doing it deliberately.

Because, get this, Indomitus was, in contents, THE SAME as previous STARTER BOXES, except gw didnt include dice and measuring stick. So yes, you call it "a launch box" i call it a starter box with 5 cents of plastic cubes missing. It's not like GW was forced at a gunpoint to withold the dice. It has two STARTING size armies, and a rulebook. It has all you need to START the damn game except some dice that GW decided not to put into the box, despite being able to do so with previous starter boxes since the dawn of time.

And you people go "yep, this isn't a starter, no dice. Yep. I will enjoy the less contents at lesser discount Starter box now!"
Like, come the eff on.

Anyway, I will stop this now, it's clearly pointless, GW said it's not a starter so you lovely folks will happily accept worse deal in shape of the "real" starter. You deserve every single price hike GW pulls off. You deserve to be sold codexes and battletomes with day one errata and you deserve digital codexes being available only as 40k app download code. And you 100% deserve scalpers, after all it's just a limited bundle, not a starter, so it doesn't matter.

Wow, an entire field of straw men. If I’m okay with one thing, I must be okay with everything, right?

 lare2 wrote:
Beyond the obvious SCE and Kruleboyz tomes, has there been any word on others coming once 3rd drops? (please be NH, please be NH)

Nothing yet, though I remember hearing a rumor back in January that Ironjawz/Savage might get a new book along with some new models come Summer/Fall. No idea how reliable that is, but it's a safe bet that we will see at least a couple other factions by the end of the year.

Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Togusa wrote:
I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not sure I believe you, given that this has happened multiple times and every time it has it gets discussed here.

Togusa wrote:
I have preordered a lot of GW stuff over the last year or so and gotten it all. I ordered it through my FLGS with no problems. Is this a problem people are having when they try to order online or something?

Yes. Again, I'm not sure how you could not know this.

I had to set an alarm and interrupt the lunch I was at to get Cursed City. I ordered it within 1 minute of preorders going live (my confirmation says 12:01 pm). A (literal - not exaggerating) minute later there weren't any left to buy. This is what people are annoyed at, especially because it's so unnecessary.

So...order through a GW store or FLGS. I had no issues and got everything I wanted to get with a discount!

Well, as you can see on H.B.M.C.'s example, is not only a matter of ordering through a GW store or FLGS (I think most people kinda do that for every single item already, you know).

It's trying to order something 5 minutes after it's started being sold and not being able to. As it has happened before. That's clearly not something that's the client's fault.

Could someone open a discussion thread elsewhere about the semantics of what constitutes a 'starter box'? We had pages after pages of this, now, and it doesn't seem to get anywhere.

 Albertorius wrote:

Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Togusa wrote:
I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not sure I believe you, given that this has happened multiple times and every time it has it gets discussed here.

Togusa wrote:
I have preordered a lot of GW stuff over the last year or so and gotten it all. I ordered it through my FLGS with no problems. Is this a problem people are having when they try to order online or something?

Yes. Again, I'm not sure how you could not know this.

I had to set an alarm and interrupt the lunch I was at to get Cursed City. I ordered it within 1 minute of preorders going live (my confirmation says 12:01 pm). A (literal - not exaggerating) minute later there weren't any left to buy. This is what people are annoyed at, especially because it's so unnecessary.

So...order through a GW store or FLGS. I had no issues and got everything I wanted to get with a discount!

Well, as you can see on H.B.M.C.'s example, is not only a matter of ordering through a GW store or FLGS (I think most people kinda do that for every single item already, you know).

It's trying to ordering something 5 minutes after it's started being sold and not being able to. As it has happened before. That's clearly not something that's the client's fault.

It's not, but the game stores get x number of copies, and depending on where you live and how popular things are there, it's usually better to preorder from them rather than the GW website.

Hopefully these new protections they've instituted for this release combined with the higher printing of the product will even things out.

Cronch wrote:

Because, get this, Indomitus was, in contents, THE SAME as previous STARTER BOXES, except gw didnt include dice and measuring stick. So yes, you call it "a launch box" i call it a starter box with 5 cents of plastic cubes missing. It's not like GW was forced at a gunpoint to withold the dice. It has two STARTING size armies, and a rulebook. It has all you need to START the damn game except some dice that GW decided not to put into the box, despite being able to do so with previous starter boxes since the dawn of time.

And with smaller discount %.

So if they would have this box at permanent addition you would have smaller discount.

It was now 160e. Turn into smaller discount and thus permanent addition would add up to price.

Starter sets had smaller discount % for models. Even 1st grader understand that if you give 40% discount rather than 20% you get smaller price. Why you are having trouble understanding what FIRST GRADER understands?

I sure as hell wouldn't be publicly admitting first graders beats me but each to his own

Togusa wrote:
It's not, but the game stores get x number of copies, and depending on where you live and how popular things are there, it's usually better to preorder from them rather than the GW website.

Hopefully these new protections they've instituted for this release combined with the higher printing of the product will even things out.

That happened when ordering from GW's webstore (I'm not sure if that's H.B.M.C.'s case, but I've seen it reported multiple times, that the xstock on GW's website lasted about 2 minutes).

Plus, it's a different advice from the one you just gave, too ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Cronch wrote:

Because, get this, Indomitus was, in contents, THE SAME as previous STARTER BOXES, except gw didnt include dice and measuring stick. So yes, you call it "a launch box" i call it a starter box with 5 cents of plastic cubes missing. It's not like GW was forced at a gunpoint to withold the dice. It has two STARTING size armies, and a rulebook. It has all you need to START the damn game except some dice that GW decided not to put into the box, despite being able to do so with previous starter boxes since the dawn of time.

And with smaller discount %.

So if they would have this box at permanent addition you would have smaller discount.

It was now 160e. Turn into smaller discount and thus permanent addition would add up to price.

Starter sets had smaller discount % for models. Even 1st grader understand that if you give 40% discount rather than 20% you get smaller price. Why you are having trouble understanding what FIRST GRADER understands?

I sure as hell wouldn't be publicly admitting first graders beats me but each to his own

So, you're saying that all previous starter boxes were less discounted than Indomitus?

...somehow, I don't think that's the case, TBH. Then again, putting the big book on the box drives the price up, and some older starters had smaller format books.

 Albertorius wrote:

Togusa wrote:
It's not, but the game stores get x number of copies, and depending on where you live and how popular things are there, it's usually better to preorder from them rather than the GW website.

Hopefully these new protections they've instituted for this release combined with the higher printing of the product will even things out.

That happened when ordering from GW's webstore (I'm not sure if that's H.B.M.C.'s case, but I've seen it reported multiple times, that the xstock on GW's website lasted about 2 minutes).

Plus, it's a different advice from the one you just gave, too ^^

I'm just pointing out for those who choose to order from the webstore that they did mention new protections to make it better, and that I hope it works for those who choose to order from the webstore.

They do it for free

Togusa wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Togusa wrote:
It's not, but the game stores get x number of copies, and depending on where you live and how popular things are there, it's usually better to preorder from them rather than the GW website.

Hopefully these new protections they've instituted for this release combined with the higher printing of the product will even things out.

That happened when ordering from GW's webstore (I'm not sure if that's H.B.M.C.'s case, but I've seen it reported multiple times, that the xstock on GW's website lasted about 2 minutes).

Plus, it's a different advice from the one you just gave, too ^^

I'm just pointing out for those who choose to order from the webstore that they did mention new protections to make it better, and that I hope it works for those who choose to order from the webstore.

Right has HBMC point out not sure if your serious but to clarify...
Has I pointed several times, a box being available through an edition lifespan is very different from being available for a week preorder and 1minute online...regardless where you want to buy the stock it will be discontinued and hard or impossible to find at original prices say couple month after its release.
In say, November I would be looking into getting cursed city box as gift to my son... or maybe next year. Unlikely.
Totally fine for Chirstmas bundles its a seasonal context, not fine for a starter which should be relevant through 3 years or so.

Its not the end of the world I buy something else on my own time, but a bit sad to see that my lovely dark imperium was the last of its kind and that in 2021 GW has company turning in profits makes things LESS available...

Warhammer: Dark Imperium. Price: 125€

Contents:
-Hardback Rulebook
-Dice
-Random crap (paper rulers, booklets, etc...)
-Space Marines:
-4 characters (Captain, 2 lieutenauts, 1 bannerbearer)
-15 infantry models (10 intercessors, 5 hellblasters)
-3 heavy infantry models (3 inceptors)
-Deathguard:
-3 characters (lord of contagion, bell dude, sorcerer)
-7 infantry models (7 plaguemarines)
-20 small models (20 poxwalkers)
-1 vehicle (plaguedrone)
Total: 7 characters, 22 infantry models, 3 heavy infantry models, 20 small models, 1 vehicle.

Warhammer: Indomitus Price: 155€

Contents:
-Hardback Rulebook
[i]-Random crap (paper rulers, booklets, etc...)
-Space Marines:
-5 characters (captain, banner dude, lieutenaut, chaplain, executioner)
-13 infantry models (10 intercessors, 3 bladeguard)
-3 heavy infantry models (obliterators)
-3 bikes (outriders)
-Necrons:
-4 characters (overlord, skorpek lord, plasmancer, royal warden)
-20 infantry models (necron warriors)
-3 heavy infantry (skorpekh)
-1 vehicle (reanimation thingy)
-8 small infantry (6 spiders, 2 canoptek small boys)
Total: 9 characters, 33 infantry models, 6 heavy infantry, 3 bikes, 1 vehicle, 8 small infantry

The difference, for 30€ is
Indomitus: No dice, +2 characters, +11 infantry models, +3 heavy infantry, +3 bikes, -12 small models.

Indomitus had more models than Dark Imperium. Thats obvious. But with the increase in price the difference wasn't that big in the discount (7 more miniatures in total than Dark Imperium). And with Indomitus at least they made a made to order, lets see if with Dominion they have the same grace.

I agree that limiting the availablity of a box set is annoying especially as I'd like to see what is in both battletomes before deciding whether to buy the core box.
The truth of it is that this is not a remotely new practice. The 2009 space Hulk was a limited edition box as was Dread Fleet. I remember hearing that gw made 10,000 copies of Space Hulk but it still took a while to sell out. Dread Fleet never sold out.
The big difference is that gw is massively popular these days. They made 350 million pounds last year. That's the equivalent of more than 8,000 copies of Indomitus a day.
GW said they made more copies of Indomitus than any other box set they have made and I think that's probably true.
My guess is that gw will make 50,000 copies of Dominion but there's a good chance that won't be enough.

Togusa wrote:

 lare2 wrote:
Beyond the obvious SCE and Kruleboyz tomes, has there been any word on others coming once 3rd drops? (please be NH, please be NH)

Nothing yet, though I remember hearing a rumor back in January that Ironjawz/Savage might get a new book along with some new models come Summer/Fall. No idea how reliable that is, but it's a safe bet that we will see at least a couple other factions by the end of the year.

Cool, thanks for the info. Suppose we're just playing the waiting game.

New greenskin stuff first would make sense though. I like the shift in focus to Destruction this edition. I've zero interest or intent on ever starting a greenskin army but really love the idea of them and fighting them on the table.

Sorry if this was covered, thread jumped a bunch with the latest back and forth… Do we know when Dominion is dropping or how much it’s costing for sure yet?

 AduroT wrote:
Sorry if this was covered, thread jumped a bunch with the latest back and forth… Do we know when Dominion is dropping or how much it’s costing for sure yet?

I'm pretty certain all we know for now is that it'll be up for preorder sometime this month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I remember correctly Indomitus was £120 so I'd be expecting the same price.

 AduroT wrote:
Sorry if this was covered, thread jumped a bunch with the latest back and forth… Do we know when Dominion is dropping or how much it’s costing for sure yet?

We don't know for sure yet but I'd put good money on it going up for pre-order on June 19th, releasing on July 3rd and costing £125.

 AduroT wrote:
Sorry if this was covered, thread jumped a bunch with the latest back and forth… Do we know when Dominion is dropping or how much it’s costing for sure yet?

They only confirmed that it will go up for pre-order in June.

Togusa wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Togusa wrote:
It's not, but the game stores get x number of copies, and depending on where you live and how popular things are there, it's usually better to preorder from them rather than the GW website.

Hopefully these new protections they've instituted for this release combined with the higher printing of the product will even things out.

That happened when ordering from GW's webstore (I'm not sure if that's H.B.M.C.'s case, but I've seen it reported multiple times, that the xstock on GW's website lasted about 2 minutes).

Plus, it's a different advice from the one you just gave, too ^^

I'm just pointing out for those who choose to order from the webstore that they did mention new protections to make it better, and that I hope it works for those who choose to order from the webstore.

When did they mention that?

Togusa wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Togusa wrote:
It's not, but the game stores get x number of copies, and depending on where you live and how popular things are there, it's usually better to preorder from them rather than the GW website.

Hopefully these new protections they've instituted for this release combined with the higher printing of the product will even things out.

That happened when ordering from GW's webstore (I'm not sure if that's H.B.M.C.'s case, but I've seen it reported multiple times, that the xstock on GW's website lasted about 2 minutes).

Plus, it's a different advice from the one you just gave, too ^^

I'm just pointing out for those who choose to order from the webstore that they did mention new protections to make it better, and that I hope it works for those who choose to order from the webstore.

This is not a helpful thing to propagate. To my knowledge there was only one post in this thread (by you, even?) about a store manager relating better webstore mechanisms to counteract scalpers. Without an official press release that is neither reliable nor can it be taken as company line, regardless of how effective it will be if it's implemented.

Further there is no evidence of higher printing whatsoever. All we have is the announcement that they made "lots", italicized for effect. That is not quantifiable nor the first time they said that in the lead up to a release that sold out quickly.

You run the risk of easing people willing to believe you into a false sense of security. Please don't do that. Until we actually see it play out differently, it's prudent to assume that Dominion is super limited and if you'd like to get one, you should be there the moment it goes on pre-order to try to prevent disappointment.

This art pretty much sums up why I love AoS.

All of the current Soul Wars sets are now last chance to buy. As are the 3 EtB Sequitors and Start Collecting Vanguard. The 15 sprues of EtB Sequitors I have from Mortal Realms might be worth something in few years

It's really weird that Vanguard went LCTB...but I think there's a namechange coming.

 DaveC wrote:
All of the current Soul Wars sets are now last chance to buy. As are the 3 EtB Sequitors and Start Collecting Vanguard. The 15 sprues of EtB Sequitors I have from Mortal Realms might be worth something in few years

Oh, will have to buy the Sequitors then. The lady Stormcast is seriously cool, but I never got around to buy them.

Chikout wrote:
This art pretty much sums up why I love AoS.

I love that art, so dam epic. Absolute props to the artist, whoever they may be. The sheer magnitude and feeling it evokes are what I love about Warhammer.


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 Kanluwen wrote:
It's really weird that Vanguard went LCTB...but I think there's a namechange coming.

Just the Start Collecting box. Probably going to be replaced with a new one.