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Hey all, this is mainly a question to those who had any army or model commission painted.

I'm not a particularly good painter or modeler by any means. I can put table top standard models down on the table, which is fine for my spaceships and hoard of guardsmen. However, I'm seriously thinking of doing a 30k Salamanders Legion from FW, and I know my painting skills or modeling ability wouldn't do the models the justice they deserve. I'm quite content to paint my guard though.

So, knowing I have neither the talent, or space to paint or model properly, nor the time, would it be worth it to pay someone to do it all for me? I have the money and the desire to own something nice, but I'm not sure what people's experiences have been looking at their army a year or two later.

Was having a commission for an army worth it? Do you enjoy having a beautiful army to display and push around the table, despite not having experienced the blood, glue and paint fumes that normally go with it. Was it worth the money to focus your life on other things or hobby projects? Was the quality worth it (feel free to recommend artists here, just don't slag any)? Would you recommend it to other people for a nice project? Did you miss the work you'd normally put into an army?

Yeah, I'm just curious what other people's experiences have been looking back on an army they've paid someone to do most/all of the work. Note that I'll still be painting/hobbying with various spaceships and my guard, so I'll be trying to improve that way, as they're easier models to paint.

Having an army painted for you is DEFINITELY worth it. I have 4 armies (I know many people have more), and one of them is 100% commission work. It is the best looking, most unified army I own.
If you don't have the time to do the painting, want the paint job to be 'worthy' of the expensive FW models and are not one of those gamers who are of the mindset that you somehow diminish the "hobby" or "experience" by not painting your own army, then I say GO FOR IT.

There are a number of very talented painters out there who can and will do it for you. You need to research them. Find someone who's done the quality you're looking for on a similar color scheme. "Joe Painter" can CLAIM he can do your army justice but, if he can only show you images of Orks he's done, or can't show you any army size quantity of models he's painted in a single commission prior to you, there's no guarantee you'll get the quality you're looking for... if you even get them back at all.
Go with someone who has a record of following through. Make sure the two of you talk AT LENGTH about what you want. If you have specific desires, make sure their known. If he has free reign on all or part of the army, tell him that, as well. If possible, get him to assemble a generic Space Marine and paint it in your color scheme, to be sure he can hit your quality and appearance desires.

Make sure they can give you a specific completion date, as well. Make sure they let you know what you can expect from them (discount, free shipping, etc) if they don't meet that deadline or within a certain period of time of that deadline. I've found that those who give discounts if they do not meet their promised completion date are the ones who meet them the best.

Good luck!

Eric

I'm a little confused by the question. Nobody else is going to be able to tell you whether or not you will feel that you have received something that is worth what you paid for it.

If you're happy with the work you receive, and with the amount you paid for said work, then it's worth it.

 insaniak wrote:
I'm a little confused by the question. Nobody else is going to be able to tell you whether or not you will feel that you have received something that is worth what you paid for it.

If you're happy with the work you receive, and with the amount you paid for said work, then it's worth it.

I'm looking more for others' experiences; if they personally felt like it was worth it, even after some time. Obviously I'll be the only one to accurately judge whether or not I'll be satisfied, but I'd like hear others' thoughts and experiences on the matter before shelling out a lot of money.

Just looking for opinions, anecdotes, and other related stories.

 MagickalMemories wrote:
Having an army painted for you is DEFINITELY worth it. I have 4 armies (I know many people have more), and one of them is 100% commission work. It is the best looking, most unified army I own.
If you don't have the time to do the painting, want the paint job to be 'worthy' of the expensive FW models and are not one of those gamers who are of the mindset that you somehow diminish the "hobby" or "experience" by not painting your own army, then I say GO FOR IT.

There are a number of very talented painters out there who can and will do it for you. You need to research them. Find someone who's done the quality you're looking for on a similar color scheme. "Joe Painter" can CLAIM he can do your army justice but, if he can only show you images of Orks he's done, or can't show you any army size quantity of models he's painted in a single commission prior to you, there's no guarantee you'll get the quality you're looking for... if you even get them back at all.
Go with someone who has a record of following through. Make sure the two of you talk AT LENGTH about what you want. If you have specific desires, make sure their known. If he has free reign on all or part of the army, tell him that, as well. If possible, get him to assemble a generic Space Marine and paint it in your color scheme, to be sure he can hit your quality and appearance desires.

Make sure they can give you a specific completion date, as well. Make sure they let you know what you can expect from them (discount, free shipping, etc) if they don't meet that deadline or within a certain period of time of that deadline. I've found that those who give discounts if they do not meet their promised completion date are the ones who meet them the best.

Good luck!

Eric

Asking painters to rush is pretty much begging for a crapy job IMO. Same goes for lowballing.

If you want to have a deadline and maintain high quality, offer up more $$$.

To offer a slightly different perspective.

One of our regular attendees to my club has a commission painted GK 40K army.

I think it was sent to one of the factory painters in Asia rather than painted by a "name" artist, but it was solid work, a step up fromwhat I could have done at the time, and no doubt produced far, far more quickly than I could dream of. Some nice little modelling touches and all done on well painted scenic lava bases.

The thing is, while I was playing him (and our game was one of his first after they were done) we had a succession of people come up and compliment us both on our armies (I have a no paint/not played rule, so whatever I field is always fully finished)
While I was able to smile, thank them for their kind words and sometimes have a quick chat how I'd achieved a particular aspect of a model, he had to politely thank people and then explain how it wasn't his work.

After the first couple of times, I got the impression he was a little embarrassed, and several of the chaps that approached us while effusive in praise initially, seemed to lose a little interest once they found out.

Not long after he started playing Warmachine almost exclusively, and I can't recall seeing that GK army at the club again.

Not trying to say you're not a proper Wargamer if you don't paint your own army or anything like that, but I thought I'd share as it wouldn't necessarily have crossed my mind if I were thinking about commissioning a project until that experience.

I have a rather unique perspective and set of experiences on this issue.

I have nerve damage in my dominant arm. When I was in 6th grade, I shattered my elbow really badly, and messed up the nerves in my wrist, which means that any kind of delicate actions, such as holding a paintbrush, induces tremors and shakes in the wrist. It is not so much a matter of skill, it is that I physically cannot hold a brush still enough to paint effectively.

So I've gone with commissioned painting, and I have tried a number of painters and services in my years of wargaming and I can give a number of recommendations of who to use and who to avoid. There are some here on Dakka that I've grown to love using (J'santai Khan), and some big name services (COUGHCOUGHBTPCOUGH) who started out good, but have steadily killed my business with terrible service.

As far as the 'did I feel it was worth it' question, and the whole matter of if I felt I earned it, I certainly do. I do take a bit of offense when people say that people who don't paint their own armies are somehow less deserving. This is mostly an online thing, all of the folks I play with on the actual tabletop are very relaxed and understanding about it. Most don't mind. But I also make it a point to be honest with them when they complement the painting. I've taught myself enough to identify and explain skills, but I never try to pass off another's work as my own. The biggest issue I ever run into is if I play in a tournament with painting scores, but every time I've run into it, it just took a short conversation with the TOs to sort out something amenable for everyone.

So, as a person who is reliant on commissioned painters, I think it is a fine practice, but it really boils down to finding an artist or service that gives you the kind of quality and service that works for you. Big names are not necessarily indicative of better work, nor are small names necessarily indicative of poorer work. The biggest tip I have is, whenever starting with a new commissioned painter or service, is to start with a small project (one squad or unit), as this allows you to gauge how well they operate, and how they communicate with you.

Is it worth it surely comes down to a balance of pluses and minuses?

For me, I've been painting all my own stuff for a very long time, and have won the odd trophy for painting at local tournaments, but only now am I having an army custom painted. My reasons for this were:

Time vs Money

With my job, it's limited and I want to work on the armies I like to convert and model like my Blood Pact or my Orks. Therefore I'm paying to have my Nids painted as these are all stock GW models and will be so I can have a finished army I can put on the table at short notice. I have a friend who is just starting out as custom painter - his rates were very reasonable and in effect I bought my self some painting time. Sounds like you might be in a similar boat here, so that should help you decide

Interest vs Variety

I really hate having to grind through painting large samey armies - probably not an issue with a FW army but I don't know how big an army you want. I have plans to run a large number of Gaunts of both stripes - I hate doing the same models over and over so paying someone else to do that for me made sense. Would you enjoy the challenge of painting the FW models, I suspect not from what you've said.

Quality

This for me was a real problem until I found the painter I ultimately went with. Those who painted much better than I did charged more than I could afford, and those I could afford weren't offering a quality I'd be happy with once the novelty of having the army ready to go wore off. In the end I was lucky to find someone who had experience of painting Nids in the same style as I wanted (his own as it happens), and who offered a level of painting (of several options) that was close to what I would have done had I done them myself. This has the advantage that I can do paint repairs if necessary without risking making a mess of the model. Also if I need to add a unit later and don't have time to send it off to be painted I can do the work myself and not have to worry about that one unit looking less good. Can you see yourself in either of those positions?

Speed

How quickly do you want the army done? Obviously the better you want it painted the longer it's going to take. For me getting it done within a relatively short time was important (I want this army ready for when the new codex drops).


Hope something in here is useful to you.

First, perhaps most importantly, having looked at some of the stuff in your images gallery I don't think you should sell yourself short - you wouldn't have any problem painting a FW marine army. Lots of open, flat surfaces, not really many tiny details, certainly that Eldar Farseer you have painted would be more intricate and detailed.

Unless it's a case of time of course, like all of these things it's a case of balancing time, effort and money, and going from there.

Also, speaking personally these days I try really hard not to end up painting production-line style armies, where I'm doing 50-60 of the same thing. I've done it a few times in the past, a real uphill slog, you get the sense of accomplishment at the end but I wouldn't do it again. So, if you're in the same position as me there, again that would be a good reason to make use of a commission painter. This kind of thing shouldn't be a chore.

TBH not sure I agree with azreal13 - I do concur that painting your own stuff, if possible, is the ideal choice, but having stuff commission painted is still a great idea, and I think to most opponents will be a hundred times better than a mix of unpainted grey plastic and resin.

If I could afford it, I would get everything I own or intend to own commissioned, to hell with the sense of accomplishment. It would be the only way that I could ever hope to see everything painted, given my glacial speed painting.

The downside, of course, is the high cost - getting stuff done by a reputable and competent painter costs more than I could justify.

If I could reliably afford it I'd do it, I've had to back out of 1 commission because the money just wasn't there when her commission slots opened up and I couldn't get the crew painted. With that being said I would talk to curran12 and see if he's willing to give you the lowdown on the like 6 commission painters he's used and do your own research as well.

Also in tournaments/friendly play, I'd probably have a stack of business cards for the guy who painted my army. That way when someone says, "oh man that army looks awesome" I can go, "Thanks, but the guys over at so and so did it, they deserve the credit." and hand them a business card.

I think it is worth it if you can afford it and dont wish to do it yourself.
I cannot paint for toffee and I have had most of my playing stuff painted by someone else for the past twenty or so years.

I am super pleased with my very large 6mm Napoleonic Russian army. Apart from the amount of work involved, my eyes aren't good enough any more to paint 6mm figures.

I wouldn't feel connected to any of my armies if anybody else painted them, and I wouldn't ever develop my skills as a painter either.

So even if somebody offered to do it for free I'd say no.

As someone who can paint whole armies, my experiences using a commission painter have in-large been negative. I find that my standards are different than most of the commission work gets done... which may take some explanation...


So, when you paint an army, especially a very large army, and you want to get it done in any reasonable amount of time, you naturally look for shortcuts. This is true for most commission painters too, because without their shortcuts, they'd not be able to make a living at what they're doing. Shortcuts can be things like using an airbrush for basecoating, or drybrushing or dipping... any mass produced steps that can be quickly applied for reasonable results.

So, my experience is that I know which techniques I'm okay with, and which ones I don't think work so well. And that's not been the same as the commission work I've had done. So, I spot the things in their work that bother me - the reasons I don't use those shortcuts. That's not to say that someone else couldn't look at my stuff and point out where I used shortcuts - there's a reason I said different standards as opposed to higher.

Anyway, the result is that I've not been actually happy with the work I've gotten back for the money spent. But, again, this is the perspective of someone who can paint an army and enjoys doing so. If you're not a good painter, I can see how having a painted army would be better than not.

I'm in the same boat as Redbeard as I enjoy painting my own armies and can do them reasonably fast and at a reasonable level of quality.

I guess the question for you is whether you'd be bothered more by playing with an army you didn't paint or having to paint your army to the level of quality you are capable of?

 Alfndrate wrote:
If I could reliably afford it I'd do it, I've had to back out of 1 commission because the money just wasn't there when her commission slots opened up and I couldn't get the crew painted. With that being said I would talk to curran12 and see if he's willing to give you the lowdown on the like 6 commission painters he's used and do your own research as well.

Heh, not quite 6. I've used (or attempted to use) 4 in total now:

Bluetablepainting - I've used them a number of times and, while a couple years ago, I was very pleased with them, my last two projects have been complete disasters when it came to service. Two times in a row now have my projects been, more or less, lost and only took my constant contacting for them to find and get them started. In terms of the quality of conversions and assembly, they are pretty solid. Painting-wise, it is much the same. But their problem is that they have become very big, and their service has not kept up with their rapid expansion of painters and assemblers. If it was a year or two ago, I'd be willing to recommend them, but now I just can't. Their service has simply fallen to an unacceptable level.

I've -tried- to use Worthypainting, before they closed and their quality is great, but their service was severely lacking.

As far as commissioned painters on an individual level.

My main go-to guy is a personal friend of mine, and while I know he likes taking commissions, I'm not certain how much outside work he is looking to take at the moment, so I won't name him. I do know in the past he has been working on setting up a studio website, and he is a very good guy to work with. He has a great perfectionist streak in everything he does so he will be very good on responses as well as quality. At the same time, he is very honest with you; if he doesn't have the room to take on more work, he will tell you that and when a good time to contact you is. If he ever opens up a studio, you can bet I'll be helping draw business to him.

The other is J'santai Khan here on Dakka, and this guy is awesome. He's funny, prompt, professional and a dream to work with. I'm on my second major project with him now, and I have not had so much as a hiccup in the service. Highly recommended.

I commission most of my paintwork out, and have done so for almost 10 years now. I have used large well known services and small-time garage operations, and in that time only a handful of projects have ever left me feeling disappointed.

There is some great advice in this thread already, but if I may add a few more thoughts to the discussion regarding value.

I am in the process of trying to sell some of my less used (or never used...) painted armies and it is extremely difficult to get a return on the cost of paint work while selling an army. Even if the army is "pro" painted by a well known name in the gaming community it likely won't fetch you a return value on the money put into purchasing and painting the army. So, just be aware that the cash that you put into the army will likely be "lost" if and when you decide to part with the army.

That being said, the vast majority of paint work that I have commissioned over the last 9+ years remains in my collection and is cherished. I get an immense sense of satisfaction out of seeing my painted armies displayed in my hobby room and even more so when they are arranged on a game table. And while I normally play at home with my own group of friends when we do venture out to the LGS the response I receive from my armies is always positive--even after I reveal that they were not painted by me. In my experience it seems that most people are just thrilled to see an army painted in a coherent color scheme, so I haven't come across any detractors.

In terms of feeling ashamed of not painting my armies, or feeling like "less of a hobbyist", I have found that assembling, or even just providing a very thorough concept of how you want the army painted, is often enough to give me a sense of accomplishment when my painted army shows up in the mail. Because I know I had a hand in its creation of the army there is no lack of bond between me and the army.

kb305 wrote:

 MagickalMemories wrote:
<snipped for brevity>

Asking painters to rush is pretty much begging for a crapy job IMO. Same goes for lowballing.

If you want to have a deadline and maintain high quality, offer up more $$$.

I didn't say to ask them to rush. That would be asinine. You don't give your models and money to someone, though, without knowing WHEN you will be receiving your items back, though. That would be equally asinine. Open ended deadlines can end up with a painter having your models for extended periods of time and, in the end, YOU are the one who ends up changing the details of your agreement because YOUR definition of "as fast as I can" and HIS definition of it are vastly different.

This is also why I advise dealing with WELL ESTABLISHED painters. The idiots who pull these stunts tend to get weeded out early.

I have dealt with a LOT of commission painters over the years. It is not uncommon for some to overestimate how fast they can work or flat out LIE to you in order to get your business. It's important that your painter know, up front, that you expect him to be a professional. If he tells you that he will be done by "X" date, then the items should be done by then or within a reasonable window afterwards... which has already been agreed upon. Failure to do so SHOULD result in some sort of compensatory apology to the customer, IMO.


Eric


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:
To offer a slightly different perspective.

One of our regular attendees to my club has a commission painted GK 40K army.

I think it was sent to one of the factory painters in Asia rather than painted by a "name" artist, but it was solid work, a step up fromwhat I could have done at the time, and no doubt produced far, far more quickly than I could dream of. Some nice little modelling touches and all done on well painted scenic lava bases.

The thing is, while I was playing him (and our game was one of his first after they were done) we had a succession of people come up and compliment us both on our armies (I have a no paint/not played rule, so whatever I field is always fully finished)
While I was able to smile, thank them for their kind words and sometimes have a quick chat how I'd achieved a particular aspect of a model, he had to politely thank people and then explain how it wasn't his work.

After the first couple of times, I got the impression he was a little embarrassed, and several of the chaps that approached us while effusive in praise initially, seemed to lose a little interest once they found out.

Not long after he started playing Warmachine almost exclusively, and I can't recall seeing that GK army at the club again.

Not trying to say you're not a proper Wargamer if you don't paint your own army or anything like that, but I thought I'd share as it wouldn't necessarily have crossed my mind if I were thinking about commissioning a project until that experience.

This never bothers me. When someone compliments my army, I simply thank them and offer an appreciation for the compliment. Even if I didn't paint it myself, I paid for it. I don't claim to have done it myself but, since they're MY models, compliments on their appearance don't seem inappropriate to me.
Just my 2 cents.

Of course, *IF* someone asks how I did "X" or says that *I* did a nice job on them, I make sure they know they're commission pieces from China. : )

Eric


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Riquende wrote:
I wouldn't feel connected to any of my armies if anybody else painted them...

NO OFFENSE INTENDED...

I just don't understand this concept. I'm not "connected" to any of my models. They're toys. I own them.
I'm connected to my wife, my kids, my friends and family. Models are just things, though. There is no attachment, sentimental or emotional, to anything, whether I've painted it myself or had a commission artist paint it.

Eric

 MagickalMemories wrote:

I just don't understand this concept. I'm not "connected" to any of my models. They're toys. I own them.
I'm connected to my wife, my kids, my friends and family. Models are just things, though. There is no attachment, sentimental or emotional, to anything, whether I've painted it myself or had a commission artist paint it.

You don't understand it, because you're considering them toys, and having someone else do them. I totally understand this sentiment. If you put several hours (or several hundred hours, for armies) into an artistic endeavor, you feel connected to that art. It's not necessarily emotional, like to your family, but it's a creative connection. This is art, you did this, you take pride in it.

 Redbeard wrote:

 MagickalMemories wrote:

I just don't understand this concept. I'm not "connected" to any of my models. They're toys. I own them.
I'm connected to my wife, my kids, my friends and family. Models are just things, though. There is no attachment, sentimental or emotional, to anything, whether I've painted it myself or had a commission artist paint it.

You don't understand it, because you're considering them toys, and having someone else do them. I totally understand this sentiment. If you put several hours (or several hundred hours, for armies) into an artistic endeavor, you feel connected to that art. It's not necessarily emotional, like to your family, but it's a creative connection. This is art, you did this, you take pride in it.

You missed where I said that only one of my 4 armies was done entirely by someone else.
My Dark Eldar came from China (and a few pieces were added on with commission painters in the states).
With the exception of a few pieces bought here and there that were too good a value to pass up (or were gifts), I have CSM and Orks which I painted myself.
My Space Marines are an unusual lot because I did the base paint jobs myself and then sent them out to have someone do some detail work I didn't feel like doing, myself.
I have Necrons that I bought painted, but I don't play them and will be getting rid of them soon, which is why I say "4" armies, instead of "5."
(And, for those who may question it - I'm NOT trying to throw those numbers around like they are of any significance. I know that 4 or 5 armies is not much in this hobby. LOL)

So, I definitely have several hundred hours into my CSM and a couple hundred into my Orks.
I still just view them at models for the game, though, and don't have any attachment to them, beyond financial. I mean, yeah. I take pride in the work I did... but the guy I responded to talked about "feeling connected" to the models he painted, and not just about taking pride in them. IMO, taking pride in your work and feeling a connection to the piece you painted CAN BE mutually exclusive. Professional artists do it all the time. Many years ago, I worked as a commission painter. I have personal experience in that regard.

Eric

A lot of great responses so far, pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

I won't quote everyone of you individually, but I'll try and address all of your points, in no particular order.

@Pacific
I appreciate the compliment, but really its Mrs. Blacksails you're commenting on. I have three models she painted in my gallery; the lord commissar, the ministorum priest, and the eldar farseer. My stuff are the spaceships, tanks, and IG related stuff. I'd love to pawn off a whole marine army on her, but she much prefers painting her Eldar and a few of the cooler looking IG models.

@Eric (Magickal Memories) and Redbeard
This is actually one of the points I wanted to ask about but didn't quite know how to word it. I still have an IG army I'll be building and painting (once Vic Minis releases the Tannenburg models in resin) and I understand the certain attachment to the models. However, I first learned how to wargame using an extensive combined club collection that had been beautifully assembled and painted from various sci-fi universes. I developed a similar sense of attachment to their models that I used regularly, namely their small Imperial Navy force, so I can see how owning something I didn't paint would still feel very much mine.

@Azreal13
I appreciate the other side of this. I've unfortunately been out of a club/group/store for some time now (two years?), so my only gaming comes from running a sample game every so often with one or two people. In my time playing at a store, a few guys had a handful of units/characters commissioned, and everyone in the store appreciated the talent involved in the work and playing against it was great. I will add though that I never considered how *I'd* deal with people complimenting an army I didn't build/paint. Thanks for bringing it up.

Did people enjoy playing against such a nice army?

@curran12
Thanks for the perspective. I guess honesty and openness about it would be best for everyone, especially at tournaments with painting scores, and I'm sure most people enjoy having a good looking army to game against. I'll still be teaching myself on my Guard if I do decide to commit to a commission, so I can always show people what I'm capable of if they're curious, but I just can't help looking at the beauty of some commissioned work that gets put up on this site. Makes me drool.

@LavuranGuard
Thanks for the analysis. For me, the biggest issue/plus/minuses for me are time vs money and quality. I wouldn't be in any rush to have a massive army as I rarely get a game in these days, though hopefully in a year I'll be back in real civilization. I move around quite a bit and spend much of my time studying and doing extra work I need to do, so my time is generally limited these days. I'm also not nearly as good as I picture my potential 30k Sallies to be, and I feel I'd actually be disappointed with my own results and what I had built up in my head, hence why I'm thinking of spending the money.

@All
To the rest who've had armies painted and love the results, thanks for sharing. To those who have both a commissioned army and a self built/painted one, which one is your favourite?

Oh and DarkTraveler777, always loved the Praetorians! As a Mordian player, I approve.

I find painting my figues boring, frustrating and annoying and takes up up too much of my imited time - so I usually don't bother.

I would rather reward those with the talent, time and ability to make them look good and then enjoy the results in the same way as anyone does who commisions a piece of art - be it music, painting or film. Plus the more the models cost unpainted the more I am loath to "ruin" them. I also purchase lots of well painted models cheap on ebay.

I have some average painted Orks and Tryanids (ie i did them) but this means i can just chuck them in a box when they die - helps me get into the spirit of those armies

As a commission painter, I'll say this: 30k points of figures is a TON, and will take a very long time to get painted, even by the faster services that use tons of airbrush work. Definitely give the painter a lot of time to get it done - allow them 2 extra months on top of what they quote you. Most commission painters have day jobs and a life outside of commissions, and that's something a lotta people don't understand.

I would also say that you should probably choose one painter/service to do all the work. You want consistency. Everyone that has collected and painted an army over a long period of time knows the pain of inconsistent quality and style in an army.
Don't go for a cheapo newbie, either. You need someone with experience and a proven track record of putting out results consistently.
If I may, I'd also like to recommend that you don't choose BTP. They've got a rather troubled history. Still, I know that they have a pretty hardcore legion of crazily devoted fans, so they're obviously doing something right.

~Tim?

Painting is definitely time consuming and sometimes I get models painted for me but I also find it something fun to do while I watch TVs or movies.

I've probably painted around 80,000 pts worth of 40k models and I seriously don't understand why people look down on those who get their models professionally painted.. Is it because they were paid for?

If you buy a nice car and people say "Hey thats a nice car" do they assume you BUILT the car with your bare hands?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
As a commission painter, I'll say this: 30k points of figures is a TON

Sorry, just want to clarify, my intention if I did commission an army, it would be a Salamanders Legion army, often called 30k as its Heresy era.

I don't think I'd ever build an army much past 5000pts, including one or two superheavies.

If you go to a classic car show, there's a lot of expectation that you restored it yourself. Sure, you could just buy one, but owning something isn't a hobby.

Game miniatures fall somewhere in between. Obviously, playing the game is a hobby, so you're not owning models just to own them.

But, the other side is the artistic creative side. And, in this, there is some amount of prestige that comes with a good looking army. There's a reason that many events have a best appearance award. People who get someone else to paint their stuff can be seen, at worst, as trying to buy themselves a prize that they didn't earn. Afterall, I can't have someone else play the game for me and get a Best General I didn't earn.

Personally, I have no issue with someone using a pro-painted army, up until the point where they try to take credit for it. If they're entering it in a competition as their own work, that's when I look down on them.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
As a commission painter, I'll say this: 30k points of figures is a TON

Sorry, just want to clarify, my intention if I did commission an army, it would be a Salamanders Legion army, often called 30k as its Heresy era.

I don't think I'd ever build an army much past 5000pts, including one or two superheavies.

D'oh! Well then, that invalidates a lotta my advice. Still, that smaller army size will let you go with smaller boutique painters. You should consider Grey Matter Musings. He posts armies in the Dakka Showcase all the time, and they're all excellent and completed really quickly. He can do 10k of models, from prep to fully-painted models, in a month. He's expensive - his prices start at $15 for a single 28mm figure, IIRC - but he's so fast and good that I'd say he undercharges.

Take a look at the Painting Service list over at the Swap Shop. There are a lotta really good painters showcased over there that would love some business. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/248070.page

~Tim?

I know I paint well. But sometimes my stockpile starts to creep up and if it's an army I might just play for fun or locally I can easily see paying someone to paint it for me. I'm considering doing that right now with one of my armies.

That said I like to build and paint an army a year or so. Last year it was an Iron Warrior/Dark Mechanicus force. The year before that a Grey Knight force. This year some kind of space skaven. But that said I have Necrons that could be fun to play and I'm honestly never going to paint them. Why not hand them off?

And I'll likely comission all my primarchs once I get enough to send out since I want them to stand out and they'll mostly be display models

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh and DarkTraveler777, always loved the Praetorians! As a Mordian player, I approve.

I salute you, sir! It is always nice to run across another fan of the old metal ranges.

 Redbeard wrote:
If you go to a classic car show, there's a lot of expectation that you restored it yourself. Sure, you could just buy one, but owning something isn't a hobby.

Game miniatures fall somewhere in between. Obviously, playing the game is a hobby, so you're not owning models just to own them.

But, the other side is the artistic creative side. And, in this, there is some amount of prestige that comes with a good looking army. There's a reason that many events have a best appearance award. People who get someone else to paint their stuff can be seen, at worst, as trying to buy themselves a prize that they didn't earn. Afterall, I can't have someone else play the game for me and get a Best General I didn't earn.

Personally, I have no issue with someone using a pro-painted army, up until the point where they try to take credit for it. If they're entering it in a competition as their own work, that's when I look down on them.

Is people claiming credit for commissioned paint work really a big issue in the tournament scene? I am not a tournament player, but I see this argument thrown out often enough in threads focusing on commission painting that I am always left wondering if this is a legitimate problem or a non-issue that gets trotted out by people who are just diametrically opposed to commission painting and need a "reason" to justify their opinion. Now, I am not accusing you of this mindset Redbeard, your post merely reminded me of this ongoing question that I have never had answered and so I am genuinely curious if this is a problem or not in tournaments. I would imagine with the level of overlap between gaming sites, painters blogs, and the general awareness of the gaming community with the happenings posted online (look at how we rally when someone's army is stolen, for example) that all of those intersections within the gaming community would make taking credit for a professional's work impossible to pull off in the long term. Now, there might be occasional donkey-caves that try to pull this stunt but some public shaming would be enough to cull the trend, surely?

So, how problematic is this issue?

And if it isn't a big issue, and if all tournaments don't automatically include a painting score, then is this "problem" even a proper justification for shunning commission work?