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So the new codex is out.

Some things got toned down, somethings got cheaper, some things improved.
St. Celestine in typical GW fashion went from auto take to maybe take
Jacobus - got hella better, his weapon got a little better, he still has the same buffs to squads, but also while in CC can roll a leadership test and then choose from 3 options - which is really nice

I think Cannonesses have become much more viable with the relic choices

I think the guard squads for both cannoness and priests are appealing now... I think with St. Celestine's power getting nerfed she will be taken less, people may say, but she gets all her wounds back, but 1st she has to pass a leadership test (which is not autosuccess) then can be instagibbed again. She is only T3 and without eternal warrior I think she is really fragile... If they would have given her EW I think the decrease in the amount of times she could get back up nerf would be more acceptable

I think Immolators became a better option. Rhinos are more for the sisters - I am guessing this is tax for the 6up invuln.

Adamantium will is REALLY nice - so everyone has a 5up deny the witch....

What is notibly lacking is NO SKYFIRE options... yikes - I thought maybe one of the heavy supports would get it, but no

I think the warlord traits are nice and the relics, I just don't think they went down enough in price to make them competitive - not at T3.. Just my opinion what are yours... will post more specifics later.

Jacobus... got nerfed massively.

His shotgun is exactly the same. His Banner of Sanctity is pretty useless now - it duplicates other easily gained abilities and no longer grants +1A or FnP - and without the reroll to faith points and a +10 point tax, he's just not worth it over a regular Priest.

Not that the Battle Conclave is quite so worth it any more now that they can only have swords and can't get Feel No Pain.

Adamantium Will is pretty pointless, only Chaos use psi-powers as anything except buff spells.

Canoness is more awesome again. Sororitas Command Squad is a whole new unit, it's so much better. They get the +1 Attack banner, only it not only affects every unit within 12", it also lets them reroll Fear, Pinning and Morale tests. They can take power weapons and pistols now, too, and you don't have to take a Dialogous (but if you do, she can carry a Relic and grants a flat reroll to faith tests within 12").

The Condemnor Boltgun is pretty crazy as the girls can mass it with a Canoness and a Command Squad. 6 Condemnor shots can kill most of the psychic MCs with one volley and can wreak havoc among the psychic buffer characters (Sorcerers, Librarians, Farseers).

Bad thing is that I don't think it has any AP

I guess I don't agree about Jacobus... yes you can buy some of the extras but why pay for it if you can have it with one model - add a cannoness with EW and rosarius and put in a CC squad and it isn't terrible..

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Bad thing is that I don't think it has any AP

It doesn't matter because it only needs to hit the psyker or his unit and the psyker suffers a perils of the warp. That's, like, the most awesome thing since the mindshackle scarabs !

I don't agree with Adamantium Will, there is plenty out there that affect the enemy, not just chaos - Eldar, SM, IG psychers, CSM

Yes, but Eiluj... when was the last time you saw any of those armies use those powers?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, but Eiluj... when was the last time you saw any of those armies use those powers?

I agree it with you and see your point, however as a big Eldar player myself - go for guide, doom and fortune, but many games I can not get them and will use things like doom, Eldritch storm and Misfortune frequently if I get them
For my Nids I will use them every game - Enfeeble, life leech etc depending on the other powers I get, but I see your point too..

Adamantium Will was a must-have simply because it's a rather important part of the army's "totally incorruptible" theme and because it got stolen from us with the WD Minidex.
I kind of miss that we don't have it apply against friendly psykers and their benign effects too, though. That was rather characterful.

The Condemnor boltgun (aka bolter-stake crossbow in 3E) we already had before received a nice buff in that it is 5 points cheaper and only needs to hit rather than to wound, compared to the WD Minidex. It actually is a viable, if not rather attractive option now, when you know there is even just a chance that there's a psyker in the other army.

I am loving that the Exorcist is Toughness 13, has 11 Wounds and an Initiative of 10. They are really taking that everyone gets a monstrous creature thing to the extreme.

Similar for the Penitent Engine.
Toughness 11, 11 Wounds, and Initiative 10.

Also they both have armor saves of 3. Not 3+ mind you, they only make the armor save if you roll a 3 exactly.

lol, nicely caught, Danny. It's only the Reference section, but... lol.

 Dannyevilguy wrote:

Also they both have armor saves of 3. Not 3+ mind you, they only make the armor save if you roll a 3 exactly.

So do I have to have AP3 to deny this save, or will AP6 do? And what do Grav Guns wound it on?

I really want to know, because it's going to be important if I'm going to take down all those wounds....

So in the Acts of Faith rules explanation it says they can be used before they act in a phase "I.E. immediately before it moves in the Movement phase..."

I cannot find any Acts of Faith that take effect in the movement phase? Am I blind?

The army is finished. Celestine can only be rez'ed once, Uriah is now only useful during assault, each unit can only use one AoF per game.....and the list goes on. GW has been trying to get rid of the SoB for years, and now they are not even useful allies. GW finally won. I can only hope that I can sell my units on eBay. Sad.

salgod wrote:
The army is finished. Celestine can only be rez'ed once, Uriah is now only useful during assault, each unit can only use one AoF per game.....and the list goes on. GW has been trying to get rid of the SoB for years, and now they are not even useful allies. GW finally won. I can only hope that I can sell my units on eBay. Sad.

Drama.

I for one am glad the SCs got reigned in. An army should not be built around special snowflake characters, especially when they are not even representative of the army itself. Custom HQs ftw.
Canoness needs more love - and she got it! <3

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
So in the Acts of Faith rules explanation it says they can be used before they act in a phase "I.E. immediately before it moves in the Movement phase..."

I cannot find any Acts of Faith that take effect in the movement phase? Am I blind?

There aren't any that I noticed either, but I suspect that's for possible future units if GW sticks with this model for AoF.

Which I really hope they don't.

On the upside:

Most units are cheaper, letting you take more.

Units have more access to wargear in general. In specific, new wargear make Canonesses useful again (yay!), such as the Blade of Admonition (power weapon that's +2 strength), and new rules makes Sororitas Command Squads heavily customizable (can give all the celestians in the squad power weapons, for example), plus more stuff for VSSs.

Battle Sister Squads can be taken in units of five. Dominion Squads can have four special weapons in a squad of five, and their Meltaguns can be made to ignore cover (which is VERY useful against certain vehicles). Immolators can be taken for all squads, letting you take immolators for battle sister squads even if you have twenty members in the squad (they just can't enter it). Repentia can have a transport, though we have no assault transports so you have to be careful with them.

All in all, I'd say it's arguably better than what we had before.

I'm not familiar with GWs e-pubs how long does it take them to to come out with a finished product after this seeming "beta" release? I would like my Hand Flamers to have a profile please

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, but Eiluj... when was the last time you saw any of those armies use those powers?

Nids often use witchfire or cast a malediction.

Demons with nova's can be very mean.

Vanilla marines without going ultra are limited to mostly offensive spells.

Getting puppet master is a GREAT way to knock a wave serpent out of the game.

Space wolves with jaws are still mean.

So just out of curiosity, how does the Contemptor Boltgun do if it was shooting at, say, grey knights?

Are those melee celestians str 4 , because str3 power weappons kind of a suck . Sad to here that the saint was nerfed was thinking about here as a tar pit unit , now she just dies from everything it aint worth to take her.

On the bright side can't wait to tell my friend that SoB can get EW , just like marines and his csm can't.

 Bookwrack wrote:
So just out of curiosity, how does the Contemptor Boltgun do if it was shooting at, say, grey knights?

If it fires at a unit then they suffer one perils for each hit. So you hit them three times with condemnors and the Judicator plus two Grey Knights die. If you hit a squad that has a Librarian then both the unit and the librarian suffer perils separately because the unit counts as one psyker and the joined librarian counts as another psyker. So you hit three times with condemnors, the Judicator and two Grey Knights leaves the battlefield then the Libarian follows them too.

Or at least that's my interpretation .

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
So just out of curiosity, how does the Contemptor Boltgun do if it was shooting at, say, grey knights?

If it fires at a unit then they suffer one perils for each hit. So you hit them three times with condemnors and the Judicator plus two Grey Knights die. If you hit a squad that has a Librarian then both the unit and the librarian suffer perils separately because the unit counts as one psyker and the joined librarian counts as another psyker. So you hit three times with condemnors, the Judicator and two Grey Knights leaves the battlefield then the Libarian follows them too.

Or at least that's my interpretation .

I really like this gun. I wish necrons had it

I'd be willing to bet that the Condemnor is going to be FAQ'd. A weapon that has to hit a Seer Council once to kill all the Warlocks (without even rolling to wound!) is one of the most situationally broken items that has ever existed.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that the Condemnor is going to be FAQ'd. A weapon that has to hit a Seer Council once to kill all the Warlocks (without even rolling to wound!) is one of the most situationally broken items that has ever existed.

Although, as ridiculous as it is, it's also very situational. Against 2/3 of the armies out there, you're spending 10 points on essentially a bolter shot. Not to mention that killing a massive deathstar in a single shot is insane...but so is a unit containing 10+ individual psykers. I don't think it's any worse than Mindshackle Scarabs forcing a 300 point monstrous creature to kill itself.

As for +1 Deny the Witch. It's not great, but it's a free bonus. Misfortune, Enfeeble, Hallucination, Psychic Shriek, Terrify, Flickering Fire, Doom, Jaws, etc...Not worthless either.

Siphen wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that the Condemnor is going to be FAQ'd. A weapon that has to hit a Seer Council once to kill all the Warlocks (without even rolling to wound!) is one of the most situationally broken items that has ever existed.

Although, as ridiculous as it is, it's also very situational. Against 2/3 of the armies out there, you're spending 10 points on essentially a bolter shot. Not to mention that killing a massive deathstar in a single shot is insane...but so is a unit containing 10+ individual psykers. I don't think it's any worse than Mindshackle Scarabs forcing a 300 point monstrous creature to kill itself.

Not to mention that the Condemnor is a one-shot weapon .

I thought that the psy bolt had to wound before it caused a perils? I know that it is AP - so did not think it was that great, but if it only has to hit, holy cow! Will have to look tonight when have rules in front of me!

If they would have made Saint Celestine EW then I think the nerf would be fair, but so many things instakill T3 creatures that her power is really not valuable

 Lynata wrote:
Custom HQs ftw.

Because you really feel like you can customize your canoness ? Yeah, canoness with jump pack, canoness with bike, tanky canoness with artificer armor and storm shield, support canoness with wargear that buff nearby unit… oh, wait, no, you can't. You will have a canoness with a rosarius, an eviscerator and then you get to choose one relic. If you don't pick Eternal Warrior, there are huge chances you'll get instakilled by pretty much every other combat character in the game. Cool !

 Melissia wrote:
Most units are cheaper, letting you take more.

My basic sisters will be more expensive if I keep the same layout, my dominions without simulacrum too, my HB retributors cost so much more, Celestine cost more, my conclave cost the same, Uriah cost more, my rhinos cost more, my seraphims cost more. My exorcist cost less, and my dominions with simulacrum cost 5 point less, but now the simulacrum is totally useless because they use flamethrower.
Units are cheaper if you don't outfit them the same way as you used to do.

 Melissia wrote:
In specific, new wargear make Canonesses useful again (yay!), such as the Blade of Admonition (power weapon that's +2 strength)

Seriously ? Marines have the same, except as a regular wargear and they get better relics. We are still looking at a T3 model, with nothing good in it's profile. You won't slay any monstruous creature or any enemy character with it.

Well I am determined to play them. I doubt I will play them competively. It is just a little annoying, if you are going to take the time GW why make them worse. Don't you want people to play them!?

Oh well, I intend to play them... It is nice at least now that we can run 5 woman troop squads now instead of the manditory 10.... I was really hoping for something sky fire, an easy fix would have been to give one of the heavy supports skyfire or even skyfire for one turn (a power), but alas no.... If you want to play competitively play IG or SM, not sisters...