Simple Nerf for Divination.

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**schadenfreude**

Divination needs a nerf. Here is a simple and easy and moderate fix. Swap out prescience as the primaris for scryer's gaze. Even with the nerf Divination would remain highly competitive.

**Happyjew**

As an Ulthwe player, I need my Guide/Presience combo.

**Eldarain**

I'd love that. Scryer's Gaze is an incredibly useful spell. It being the Primaris would allow for a great deal of freedom in building heavily reserved lists.

**jifel**

Thats an excellent idea. Scyers gaze is good still, but not as broken as Presience is as a Primaris. Imagine if Iron Arm or Endurance was the Biomancy primaris... That's how Divination is.

**schadenfreude**

Happyjew wrote:
As an Ulthwe player, I need my Guide/Presience combo.

It's also the most fluffy of Divination spells.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:
As an Ulthwe player, I need my Guide/Presience combo.

Every imperial army has access to a pair of 55 point inquisitors with Prescience. Nerfing divination to have scryers gaze as the primaris hurts almost every one else more than Eldar.

**Largeblastmarker**

I like the idea.

**iGuy91**

I like it too, since I don't use psychic armies, and they are all way ahead of the power curve

**Wilytank**

Though I like Prescience for my Space Wolves, the current distribution of Divination has gotten out of hand.

**schadenfreude**

My primary army is IG and access to cheap 55 point prescience inquisitors is going to be a bit much, especially when they can join forge world artillery units like thudd guns and earth shakers. Even without forge world IG has access to 3 prescience psychers for 3 heavy support choices. I don't think codex inquisition is the root of the problem, it's that the divination powers are overpowered especially prescience, ignore cover, and 4+ invo with one of the 3 offenders as the primaris. I don't see a need to go savage and midieval with the nerf bat when all that is needed is a change in the primaris.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exibit A: The thread under tactics that 2 inquisition psykers with prescience is an auto include for all imperial forces.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/563462.page

**rohansoldier**

Even though I play Eldar, I voted yes.

Although I would love my Chaos Sorceror to be able to get Divination.

**Ashiraya**

rohansoldier wrote:
Even though I play Eldar, I voted yes.

Although I would love my Chaos Sorceror to be able to get Divination.

This, all of it.

**da001**

Same here.

I wonder... the people saying otherwise... which is the reason?

2.1: No don´t nerf Divination because it does not need to be nerfed. It is fair.
2.2: No don´t nerf Divination. I know it is unfair, but I like these kind of unfair advantages when I play.
2.3: No don´t nerf Divination. I know it is broken/unbalanced, but I don´t think that´s unfair because unbalanced lists are part of the game. You search for combos to exploit the rules, everyone does.
2.4: Other.

**Exergy**

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
rohansoldier wrote:
Even though I play Eldar, I voted yes.

Although I would love my Chaos Sorceror to be able to get Divination.

This, all of it.

or at least sorcerers that have MoT

**schadenfreude**

Exergy wrote:
BrotherHaraldus wrote:
rohansoldier wrote:
Even though I play Eldar, I voted yes.

Although I would love my Chaos Sorceror to be able to get Divination.

This, all of it.

or at least sorcerers that have MoT

Couldn't agree more. They really should have had 1 author do both CSM and Deamons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

da001 wrote:
Same here.

I wonder... the people saying otherwise... which is the reason?

2.1: No don´t nerf Divination because it does not need to be nerfed. It is fair.
2.2: No don´t nerf Divination. I know it is unfair, but I like these kind of unfair advantages when I play.
2.3: No don´t nerf Divination. I know it is broken/unbalanced, but I don´t think that´s unfair because unbalanced lists are part of the game. You search for combos to exploit the rules, everyone does.
2.4: Other.

I avoided the sub options because some are inflammatory and boxes people into a corner. The best reason I can think of for not nerfing divination is it would make Eldar even more powerful. I also think more people will join the Nerf camp once a pair of inquisitors joins every imperial army.

**StarTrotter**

schadenfreude wrote:
Exergy wrote:
BrotherHaraldus wrote:
rohansoldier wrote:
Even though I play Eldar, I voted yes.

Although I would love my Chaos Sorceror to be able to get Divination.

This, all of it.

or at least sorcerers that have MoT

Couldn't agree more. They really should have had 1 author do both CSM and Deamons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

da001 wrote:
Same here.

I wonder... the people saying otherwise... which is the reason?

2.1: No don´t nerf Divination because it does not need to be nerfed. It is fair.
2.2: No don´t nerf Divination. I know it is unfair, but I like these kind of unfair advantages when I play.
2.3: No don´t nerf Divination. I know it is broken/unbalanced, but I don´t think that´s unfair because unbalanced lists are part of the game. You search for combos to exploit the rules, everyone does.
2.4: Other.

I avoided the sub options because some are inflammatory and boxes people into a corner. The best reason I can think of for not nerfing divination is it would make Eldar even more powerful. I also think more people will join the Nerf camp once a pair of inquisitors joins every imperial army.

... chaos daemons was written by Phil Kelly.

As stated, it might lean towards the favor of Eldar. To be honest, I would rather they remake the entire psyker system. It is an absolute mess, clunky, random, unreliable, inconsistent and imbalanced. A MC casting Iron Arm is worth the same price as a Inquisitor casting such a spell for example. Biomancy and Divination are just generally so great whilst the other psykers types tend to go from meh to pyromancy oh dear this is bad.

**necronspurs2012**

As a daemons of tzeentch player, i need prescience, my horrors are only bs3 and prescience has saved me many, many time.

**Imposter101**

And nerf Chaos Daemons into the ground even more?

Really?

**Asmodai Asmodean**

Any nerf for Div is just a buff for eldar. Scatter lasers op, and you don't even need a psychic test.

**tuiman**

Dont nerd divination, just dont give it out like cotten candy so every army can spam it easily.

At the start of 6th this was never a problem, now because of codex inquisition this is now a problem that a lot of armies can now take a 55 point inquisitor, and coteaz if you want and keep spamming presience.

SO just get rid of codex inquisition and problem solved?

I mean this would probably nerf a lot more armies if it was taken away. My 2c

**pizzaguardian**

I voted no.

On a side note making sg the primaris power would still be broken. Think how it would affect flyer or outflank armies, putting the infamous inquisitor into another 55 points of broken for imperial armies with any kind of reserves and will just change the title of this thread to scriers gaze " not make it primaris".

The whole psychic power system should be revamped. A problem of the current situation is there is nearly no option of shooting commanders that can reliably be taken for some armies. So you have to go with the reliable ones

You need to change more than primaris power of divination in order to make the non beat stick commander options better for armies like eldar,ınquisition, grey knight , space marines. So the logical choice is either guranteed reroll or take a beatstick. If somehow shooting hq's were made more reliable then having a primaris reroll power can much easily be changed since it wont be obvious choice anymore and wont make people alter their gameplay.

In short terms , if we had other reliable ranged hq options for some armies, the prescience can be changed much easier or wont be and important enough issue to change.

**juraigamer**

Divination is a crutch for the weak and the WAAC. So is biomancy. Need less abiltiy to psy spam or to adjust powers.

Changing divination's primaris sounds good, but why not just make certain powers require 2 warp charges instead?

**schadenfreude**

Biomancy isn't over powered it's pretty much just iron arm on MC that is the problem. It should cap out at s/t 7

Hearing a lot that switching the primaris isn't enough and some powers should be 2 Warp charge. I agree prescience and ignore cover should be 2 each, it's just a harder sell than a lighter nerf.

**Breng77**

I would propose making the 4++ save the primaries (he he now my screamer star is invincible)

Seriously though the overwatch at full bs and counter attack would be the best choice for primariis.

That said to really balance things you would need to rework all the disciplines.

**schadenfreude**

The 1 extra step I would take with divination is psykers that survive the game after taking a perils from divination give their oponent 1 VP per survived perils caused by divination. It's an unlikely event and a rare but harsh penalty that really fits fluff wise when it comes to divination being the most dangerous power when control is lost to warp entities.

**NeedleOfInquiry**

Just so I understand this....

Nobody using it had a problem with it until every one else got access to it via the Inquisitional codex...

There's a word floating around in my head about that.... what could that word be.....no it wasn't heretic but it was something close beginning with an"H"

**schadenfreude**

NeedleOfInquiry wrote:
Just so I understand this....

Nobody using it had a problem with it until every one else got access to it via the Inquisitional codex...

There's a word floating around in my head about that.... what could that word be.....no it wasn't heretic but it was something close beginning with an"H"

Been avoiding that word because it's inflammatory. The problem was easier to ignore before Codex space marine and Codex inquisition. No it's more obvious, and players that once had an edge because they have divination have lost that edge because their opponents have it.

Divination also throws off the Dakka versus melee balance of the game. That's the biggest problem I see with prescience as the primaris.

**StarTrotter**

NeedleOfInquiry wrote:
Just so I understand this....

Nobody using it had a problem with it until every one else got access to it via the Inquisitional codex...

There's a word floating around in my head about that.... what could that word be.....no it wasn't heretic but it was something close beginning with an"H"

As mentioned, it has always been the problem. The thing is though, this flaw was in a small number of codices. Tzeentch daemons that heavily rely on spells and are only battle brothers with CSM, BA often considered one of the worst codices currently, and DA which is considered one of the most sub par codices of the new ones. It was grating but still largely restrictive. Eldar's update was the first real major shakeup as they were battle brothers with Tau and even by them self very devastating. And then you get a 55 point inquisitor that is a ML1 psyker. He is battlebrother with every imperial faction. You don't need to pay a troop tax, don't need to do a thing. Just make a model, have the codex, and add one or two ML1 divination psykers in. It made a problem that was slowly growing ramp up quite dramatically in a very short amount of time.

**NeedleOfInquiry**

Well, I guess all those voting for a nerf now that everyone can have it will just have to hope GW listens to them.

"sound of laughing echoing off in the distance".........

**wtnind**

Psychic powers are very RNG. If you roll iron arm on a daemon prince you are totally sorted, you even buy 3 powers so there's a greater chance of getting it. There are even total duds (smite/hemorrhage/life leech on a broodlord). Now there were total duds on the warlord chart on the BRB too but they rectified that in the subsequent codexes:

1. New codexes have useful/good warlord traits
2. New codexes have warlords that can take specific traits (reduces RNG)
3. New codexes have useful primaris powers (reduces RNG)

I think all powers should be equally powerful, there should be no duds and the primaris should always be the most useful (equally powerful but most useful).

So for example:
Biomancy, Iron Arm should be primaris but it should be +1 T and Eternal Warrior
Divination, Prescience should be primaris but it should be reroll 1s to hit
Fortune should be the eldar (farseer school) primaris power but it should be reroll saving throws of a 1.

TL;DR
The best psychic powers are too good but too also hard/random to get (50/50 at best). This results in people buying extra powers/psykers just for a better chance at getting the best power. The obvious solution is to make the 'desirable' powers primaris but tone them back on the balance scale.

**Iranna**

Personally, I've not encountered this "Divination/Prescience" problem others seem to have.

If your biggest gripe is that people are taking an inquisitorial detachment so take prescience perhaps it is not the Divination tree you should be pointing the finger at?

Or just don't play against people using an Inquisitorial Detachment in casual play, if you're that aggrieved by it.

Iranna.