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Hey guys and gals,

I've having a bit of an issue. I play with a Black Templar army who normally plays against my friend's Tau army.
I know that Tau suck at CC and have been told numerous times that to "Close into the Tau as fast as you can", but even with Assault troops, Land Raiders, etc, I'm getting blasted by that damnable Overwatch rule.
Any tips on how to counter act this rule?

Kill the Pathfinders, use artillery and maybe not try to charge his gunline as a priority. Tau are very good at close combat in the sense that they will never have to fight it.

Hi there friend, as a fellow space marine player (raptors) i also get murdered by my friends overwatch, the only way i can really break his lines is to do what's called a defensive assault, basically make it so that he can only see one member of your crusader blob, declare charge, let him overwatch and kill the one guy he can see due to wonderful wording in the the main rules, letting the rest of your squad get the charge, if you can get fleet it helps, obviously rhinos/razorbacks and land raiders can help massively as cover can sometimes be scarce, although facing tau with no cover is almost certain death anyway
A guy on here called Reecius has a great video involving this and many other good topics
Here is the link http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/559590.page

Really top guys that do these vids

I had a moment of pure epiphany in Chicago a year or so ago.

When charging Tau, try and use the terrain to limit LOS to supporting units. If units other than the one you're charging can't see you, they can't shoot you. Especially for more mobile armies like drop pods or eldar, this is pretty easy to do.

A thunderfire cannon is also a great addition to remove those pesky pathfinders.

This is a good tactics video from frontline:

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/11/06/warhammer-40k-tips-tricks-and-dirty-tactics-defensive-assault/

As an ork i usually got that sacraficial deffkopta that dies on the overwatch but allows those boyz who managed to get there to have better chances on that crappy random charge (welcome to 6 ). Maybe you can afford a sacraficial unit if not possible to play with los.

I've played Tau twice and I've usually assaulted with two simultaneous units, one not so tough and one tough. The weaker unit charging first to take the overwatch and the tougher unit following up with a charge after overwatch.

Use a transports/vehicles to screen the charging unit so it can't be seen by too many of the supporting units.

 Shandara wrote:
Use a transports/vehicles to screen the charging unit so it can't be seen by too many of the supporting units.

Quoted for truth. I play against Tau often, and this is one of the tactics I use.

I have only seen it a few times but I am lost to how devastating this is. Only the unit being charged and supporting fire units within 6" of the charging unit can fire right? I can understand the massive effect of auto hits with template weapons(that's the only time actually I have seen a kill been scored) but the whole snap fire thing should greatly limit the amounts of hits units take. Where are all these wounds coming from? A full unit of fire warriors with rifles will hit 4 times and wound around 3 of them, a MEQ unit might lose one guy rolling average.

I

marker lights boost over watch im guessing. pathfinders use the lights in overwatch, every hit can then be used to raise the BS of the unit being charged. no easy solution for Templars im afraid you either need a sacrificial unit or charge them first with something they cant hurt (ironclad comes to mind)

Well for all those armies that have access to them, the best way is to take items that deny overwatch (such as Dirge Caster). But as I recall this doesn't apply to Space Marines.

In addition to all useful insights, I would also point out that the range is not that big. The supporting unit must be at most at 6" from the unit being charged, so in many case it will mean that the opponent will have two or more units very close to each other. So you can exploit this to your advantage in many ways, for example:

1) Try to find a reason that forces one of the unit some inches further with respect to the one you want to charge (easier said than done, I know)
2) Barrage weapons could help you. Units very close allow you to hit something even if you scatter a lot. In addition, you have a much better control on would allocation if you hit, so you can actually remove all the closer models of one unit to your charge target, so the rest of the unit find itself outside the 6" range
3) You can multicharge them. They are going to fire multiple overwatch nevertheless, so at least you will tarpit multiple dangerous shooters at once. In addition, as Black Templars, 9 times out of 10 you are very likely to end up winning a close combat fight even with Tactical Marines against 2 of their units.

I've also used tank shocks to split them up.

If a Tau player suspects a double charge, he may only overwatch with the targeted unit, then overwatch with the rest of the army on the second unit. He can do this because supporting fire is not limited by being locked in combat, they are simply also "targets" of the charge.

Something to be aware of.

 Nilok wrote:
If a Tau player suspects a double charge, he may only overwatch with the targeted unit, then overwatch with the rest of the army on the second unit. He can do this because supporting fire is not limited by being locked in combat, they are simply also "targets" of the charge.

Something to be aware of.

This is very true, but also a good reason to use the defensive assault instead of the sacrificial unit assault strategy. Tau have overwatch out the bum, and because of that you need to figure out ways to mitigate the damage overwatch will cause and also still allow you to make your charge without having to roll

There's 2 easy ways. As mentioned, take out the pathfinders always, but also charge with a throwaway model/unit first.

Also use LOS blocking. A rhino in the way can keep enemies from overwatching you.

If your going to charge fire warriors or pathfinders. you might as well multi charge. as they have defensive grenades.

How do defensive charges work against SMS spam? I usualy load by vehicles and broadsides with SMS and point defense, but haven't faced anything but orks and IG who normally get gunned down beforehand.

Im a Tau general. Against me, I suggest Whirlwinds or some other Larger Barrage to "separate" the support fire units from their 6" range to the assaulted Tau unit.

It may or may not clear out all the guys you need to but it helps, and you're killing stuff.

The Markerlights are really what makes overwatch nasty as was said. I take Marker Drones and use the commander to defend them, using Look out Sir as necessary. A barrage fixes that problem as well.

Allied Manticores work GREAT against all types of Tau.

Good luck.

You can't really spam Tau smart missile systems. If you try to assault broadsides, those will still get you because they don't require line of sight. However, they are AP5, so you should still be taking saves against them, and if you do defensive Assaulting only need model should die of missile pods and maybe one more to sms.

Use templates to seperate the units from one another.

If you play CSM, use and abuse of the Dirgecaster, on a LR, Stormeagle or even rhinos, it is a wonderfull 5pts invested.

Block LoS using terrains/vehicles

Don't forget that Markerlights counter only last for the phase where they are shot, they don't last for a whole turn.

allready saw Tau players neglecting this, and still tried to use their ML counters on units that where assaulting them to hit on 5's or 4's.

Take out first things that if they hit, it will be ugly, like Exo armors and stuff, you still have some chances when Pulse rifles hit you, but when its a Fusion blaster or Plasma, there is less chances to survive.

Thanks all for the replies. I am going to try the defensive assault the next game I play.

Something is bothering like crazy though. I know I'm about to use logic here in fantasy game so just bare with me.

Markerlights and SMS do not require line of sight.
Now I understand that SMS are pretty much the equivalent of the real world weapon FGM-148 Javelin., however seeing that markerlights are pretty much a target designatior laser, how in the world does this item do not require LOS?

It does require line of sight. so that solves that. Lol. Markerlights must see their target like everything else.

According to the 6th ed. Tau codex on pg 68 it does not. unless I am totally reading this thing wrong

 CrazyeyeMack wrote:
According to the 6th ed. Tau codex on pg 68 it does not. unless I am totally reading this thing wrong

Firing the Markerlight requires LOS. Firing a seeker missile at a target with a markerlight token on it (via the seeker rule) does not.

 McNinja wrote:

 CrazyeyeMack wrote:
According to the 6th ed. Tau codex on pg 68 it does not. unless I am totally reading this thing wrong

Firing the Markerlight requires LOS. Firing a seeker missile at a target with a markerlight token on it (via the seeker rule) does not.

Ah, gotcha.

Come join Chaos, we have dirge casters.

I usually use either lots of transports or drop pods to deal with Tau.

herpguy wrote:
Come join Chaos, we have dirge casters.

Believe me, after reading Dirgecaster, I have considered it greatly