Dark Eldar Rules Discussion

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**Mad4Minis**

ThePhish wrote:One thing seems apparent imho. The "glass hammer" label will definately still apply to the new line of DE. While they've added some options to gain some survivability, they've bumped up costs on almost everything it seems. Also, by adding those same options for more firepower and defensive options, they reduce the number of units on the board. DE are still going to be really fragile. They'll do a ton of damage, but die by the droves.

Well they are supposed to be a hit and run army. Speed and cover are their biggest allies. They are meant to do max damage quickly, grab some slaves, loot, etc and GTFO. There are some scenarios, esp defensive ones, the DE should just avoid. Holding a position, or taking and holding one, are just against the DE character. There are extremely few reasons they would participate in those actions.

**puma713**

Thing that I think is important to remember is while we're seeing FNP on every other unit (it seems like), Str. 6 still discounts FNP in this army. Archons, Lelith, Wyches - just about everything that may or may not get FNP will have it negated by Scatter Lasers, Multi-lasers, Flamestorms, Str. 6 CC, etc., etc.

**Fateweaver**

Damn, I wish my game store were a "GW" store...nearly a month is too damn long to wait :(

**Sigmatron**

Which might make the Grotesque Army strong, as they are T5 (the bigger ones) with FNP and T4 for the Wracks.

**puma713**

Fateweaver wrote:Damn, I wish my game store were a "GW" store...nearly a month is too damn long to wait :(

After 12 years, a month is a drop in the bucket, my friend.

**Just Dave**

puma713 wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:Damn, I wish my game store were a "GW" store...nearly a month is too damn long to wait :(

After 12 years, a month is a drop in the bucket, my friend.

*round of applause*

**Lord Harrab**

Oh man, it seems to me that any IG army with hydras is going to murder those jet-bikes and raiders, they won't be lasting long without their flat-out cover save against that storm of shots.

**Sigmatron**

That's why Hydras will be Target priority #1.

**Rymafyr**

Sigmatron wrote:That's why Hydras will be Target priority #1.

Yep. I'm guessing you're still going to see anywhere between 6-7 Raiders and at least 1 Ravager in every DE build still. That's still 9 to 10 DL's no matter how you slice it. Anyone know if the DL's are still Str 8 AP 2? Or did they go to Str 9?

**Skarboy**

Rymafyr wrote:Yep. I'm guessing you're still going to see anywhere between 6-7 Raiders and at least 1 Ravager in every DE build still. That's still 9 to 10 DL's no matter how you slice it. Anyone know if the DL's are still Str 8 AP 2? Or did they go to Str 9?

Standard DL are S8, I believe. The flying fighter seems to have a S9 lance which is pretty nasty.

Lance spam may be gone, but it's been replaced by a healthy diversity of other options as well as plenty of lances to go around.

**Kirasu**

Is it true? the hydra actually has a use vs bikes for once? non-3+ save bikes! what a shock

**Archonate**

Skarboy wrote:Lance spam may be gone, but it's been replaced by a healthy diversity of other options as well as plenty of lances to go around.

The loss of DL spam might have bothered me once upon a time, but I LOVE that it's been replaced by a high volume of poisonous ranged weaponry. You don't NEED tons of DLs anymore!
A wise GT winner once told me that the key to ruining your opponents game is to make them roll as many dice during your turn (armor saves, etc.) as you can. Poisoned splinters make that far more possible.

**puma713**

Archonate wrote:
Skarboy wrote:Lance spam may be gone, but it's been replaced by a healthy diversity of other options as well as plenty of lances to go around.

The loss of DL spam might have bothered me once upon a time, but I LOVE that it's been replaced by a high volume of poisonous ranged weaponry. You don't NEED tons of DLs anymore!
A wise GT winner once told me that the key to ruining your opponents game is to make them roll as many dice during your turn (armor saves, etc.) as you can. Poisoned splinters make that far more possible.

Except for the fact that that IG parking lot doesn't care about your poisoned weapons.

**Sigmatron**

Parking Lots will be one of the hardest challenges for DE, in my opinion. Even the Chimera's are deadly.

**Red Corsair**

I think Orks and IG will be the greatest challenges. Although Chaos Daemons with their special deployment could really spoil a game fast. I am actually curious as to how they will match up against the tau as well... It used to seem like every gun being shot from a fire warrior might as well have been a las canon! 2+ To wound with no save...Ugh!

**Archonate**

IG and Tau where always the most notorious DE killers. I wonder if this will change.

**Luthon1234**

Sigmatron wrote:Parking Lots will be one of the hardest challenges for DE, in my opinion. Even the Chimera's are deadly.

So not much changed then?

Now that we have more useful units we should be ok now in 5th.

**zeekill**

So, two questions:

1) Do you guys think that the prices will go up after the pre-ordering period is over? Right now I like the prices. I will take $33 for a raider and $25 for a box of 10 troops thank you very much.

2) Do you think that all the hype we are hearing about raiders and pain points is really that good or is it going to be a tyrannofex situation (OMG SO GOOD S10 2 Shot and 2+ Save OMG!!!! 5 days later: awww.... 265 points and its BS3....)

**puma713**

zeekill wrote:

2) Do you think that all the hype we are hearing about raiders and pain points is really that good or is it going to be a tyrannofex situation (OMG SO GOOD S10 2 Shot and 2+ Save OMG!!!! 5 days later: awww.... 265 points and its BS3....)

I think it'll be a little bit of both. Everyone is so hyped on the entire release that they're imagining all the neat things that each unit can do. However, I imagine that it will be similar to the Eldar codex in that your army will need synergy to work properly. I also think with all the point increases that the codex got, people will be trying to fit as much of what they like into a list - so much that it may lose a bit of balance. We'll see, I suppose. I also have a feeling that the bandwagoners may have a tough time with this codex and that you'll be seeing lots of new DE on eBay come Christmas time and soon thereafter.

Just my 2 coppers.

**Red Corsair**

I don't think so I actually think they are going to become much easier to play then people are expecting. With the streamlining of the options in the FOC and the new poison rules I think they will dominate in smaller games..... Its large scale games that I think the newer players will be poised for the biggest challenge.

**spiraleddie**

i did a quick search and found no mention of the Chronos Parasite engine which has some good support charateristics, it is a MC, it was in the same slot as the talos, the creature sucks the life force out of victims and then emits the consumed life force back out to supporting DE giving a boost in combat. Im sorry i cant remember exact details but im hoping someone else might know.
i was in my local GW store today and was surprised to see a DE codex on the painting table for all to read, so i plonked myself down for a quick read.
i also was quite excited as it had a pic (sketch like the ones in OP) of the talos, and it looks sweet, it definantly has the look of eldar, its body/head looks like the wraithlords head but on a different orientation.

**Athera**

puma713 wrote:
zeekill wrote:

2) Do you think that all the hype we are hearing about raiders and pain points is really that good or is it going to be a tyrannofex situation (OMG SO GOOD S10 2 Shot and 2+ Save OMG!!!! 5 days later: awww.... 265 points and its BS3....)

I think it'll be a little bit of both. Everyone is so hyped on the entire release that they're imagining all the neat things that each unit can do. However, I imagine that it will be similar to the Eldar codex in that your army will need synergy to work properly. I also think with all the point increases that the codex got, people will be trying to fit as much of what they like into a list - so much that it may lose a bit of balance. We'll see, I suppose. I also have a feeling that the bandwagoners may have a tough time with this codex and that you'll be seeing lots of new DE on eBay come Christmas time and soon thereafter.

Just my 2 coppers.

This is what I'm expecting to. Just like Tyranids that the bandwagoneers ran out with and got crumped by Space Marines. DE Bandwagoneers are going to get crumped by Space Marines and blown off the table by IG. Then they'll eBay and buy Space Wolves.

**em_en_oh_pee**

Athera wrote:This is what I'm expecting to. Just like Tyranids that the bandwagoneers ran out with and got crumped by Space Marines. DE Bandwagoneers are going to get crumped by Space Marines and blown off the table by IG. Then they'll eBay and buy Space Wolves.

Saving myself some time and picking up Space Wolves instead of DE.

**A-P**

Just woke up and catching up on the info. So...one small detail that caught my eye. Did I get this right? GW actually did a 180 and included old fashioned, honest-to-Ghu, retinues? They went the way of the Dodo since 5th Edition was introduced. Killing those Xenos leaders is going to be a PITA if you can not target them in CC.

**nosferatu1001**

Except if you read the summary it suggests they can be picked out, a la BT.

THe IG parking lot will care once you get behind it though. It doesnt, if they are actually following the rules correctly, turn around very easily.

**gorgon**

Pretty confident that they're not retinues in the 3rd ed. sense.

**Gwar!**

Omg, you lied!

They are called Combat Drugs!

**puma713**

For those that are staying away from the 48-page thread, chaos0xomega just posted a nice find from Warseer. Also, cleaned it up a little bit - I removed the "half a firewarrior" point algorithms with just the listed points, to make it easier to understand (and so I don't have a caniption).

chaos0xomega wrote:

The webway portal, sadly, is just a repainted vortex grenade (ala the apoc release from a while back).

Also(thank you vovlin from warseer):

* Flyers:
4 types of missiles, range 48"
1) S6 AP5 Blast 5"
2) S7 AP- Blast 5", reroll to wound
3) SX AP5 Blast 5", Poison 2+, Pinning
4) AP2 Blast 3", Test on initial Wounds or dead, cover and invulnerable saves allowed

Razorwing: 10/10/10
has 4 missiles of type 1), can upgrade to type 2) and 3)
Bomber: 11/11/10
can take upt to 4 missiles of any type
Type 4) costs 30 pts.
Has one Void Mine: S9 AP2 Blast 5", Lance, dropped on model underneath, D6" scatter

* Haemonculi can also take a huskblade
* Warriors don't have plasma greandes, but sybarite can take grenade launcher for 20 pts. which gives offensive and defensive grenades to the whole squad
* Trueborns can exchange their rifle for ccw and pistol for free or carbine for 5 pts., can take plasma grenades for one point each. 4 Trueborn can take special weapons and 2 heavy weapons
* every third elite waych can take a wych weapon
* Incubi can't take plasma grenades or grenade launcher
* Groteques can take a champion, which can take some special ccw, but nothing which ignores armour, Wracks can also take a champion which can take an agonizer
* there is absolutely no way to give mandrakes a pain point without sacrificing their infiltration
* the combat drugs effects are: +1 A, +1 S, +1 WS, max out of 3D6 for running, reroll to wound in close combat, free Pain Token
* beastmasters don't have combat drugs and they are Beasts instead of Jump Troops
* Hellions have Fleet, Reavers have not
* Mandrakes have only 1 ccw, so only three attacks during an assault and 2 thereafter
* Jetbike fly-by-attack only works against one single unit even if there were several units on the path of the jetbikes. For determination wether an unit was under the jetbikes path or not you don't look at the actual path. You take the starting point and end point of the movement and draw a line.
* most squad champions can take ghostarmour (4+ and 6++) except wyches
* if there is a portal, even deepstriking or outflanking reserves can enter via the portal
* Talos is 100 pts. with D6 attacks, for 15 pts. it can take an additional ccw. For 5 pts. it can be upgraded with the Instant Death special rule or a special close combat weapon, that allows it to roll 2D6 for its attacks and pick the highest
* Talos is equipped with twin-linked splinter cannon, can be upgraded to twin-linked blaster, twin-linked heat lance and another weapon that i have forgotten
* Both Talos and the Cronos have the Power from Pain rule, so they can get FnP and FC (S8 Talos on the charge)
* Reaver, Talos and Chronos have the Move through Cover USR
* Groteques can get a raider, Wracks can get raider or venom
* Talos is 5/3/7/7/3/4or5/D6/3+ and Cronos is 3/3/5/7/3/4or5/2/3+
* when the Cronos kills a model in cc, a unit in 12" gets a Pain Token. Can change this weapon against one of the following weapons, that also gives a Pain Token upon wounding:
Flame S4 DS 3 Assault or 18" S3 DS3 Assault Blast 5"
* the entry of the Inccubi is virtually the same as an aspect warrior entry: 5-10 warrior, exarch/klavex upgrade, 2 weapon options for klavex and 2 powers
* the Preferred enemy power only works for the Klavex
* Drazahr makes a unit Inccubis Fearless

* vehicle upgrades:
for 10 pts. each: nightfield, 5++ and Deep Strike
for 5 pts. each:
- if the raider moves over a unit it gets D3+1 hits with S4
- 2D6" extra movement
- enemy unit in 6" get -1 on thei Ld, must take a Ld if they try to assault the vehicle
- friendly units in 12" can reroll their moraletest
- raider can tankshot, if it rams it gets +D3 on its front armour
- for every 1 on a close combat to hit roll against the vehicle the unit gets a S4 hit
- splinter rifles and pistols (but no cannons) can reroll failed to hit rolls when shooting from the raider

**Quintinus**

Wow. The Dark Eldar sound awesome. I love the Retinue the best, more races in 40k is always welcome. : )

**Phototoxin**

What's the pts cost of a raider anyway?