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Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:It took a second to register the first part...but did you just call it a feat to be defeated by Draigo? Mild confusion

Because RG was writing a book while everyone else was conquering the galaxy. And because he wasn't able to give a simple "cease and desist" to the Word Bearers without help from Malcador, custodes, his entire legion, AND THE EMPEROR. :/ yeah, that was a bit of a rant, sorry.

Really? I thought I read that one of them was?

And Agreed. In a book written form Lorgar's perspective, he described himself as being one of the martially/physically weaker primarchs, and proceeded to get swiss cheese'd by Corax

1. No, I'm saying that considering how fething ridiculous the things Draigo has done are, it's a miracle that Mortarion survived at all.

2. Uh, I'm pretty sure Guilliman's record in the Great Crusade was one of the best of the Primarchs, and beyond that he didn't just crush the opposition, he left worlds better off than they were before he arrived. Also, uh, didn't the Emperor order him to basically do what he did? Plus he had the enormous sack to call Dorn a traitor. The audacity some gak like that takes is incredible.

3. It's actually hard to say. One of them may of been killed by Guilliman, but Alpharius was known to have doubles among the mere Marines to take his place, so it's speculated that one of them was sent to die.

4. Well, yeah. Lorgar admits he's not much of a fighter compared to his brothers, though, I personally believe Alpharius is weaker personally.

1. Survived? He got banished tho...

2. Well...his legion was 3x bigger than any other...And calling Dorn, who happens to be the most loyal, honest and wise of all the primarchs, a traitor after HIS fortifications and HIS legion ("He" being Dorn) had just saved Terra and helped save Mars during their civil war Without whom, there would be no Terra, no Emperor, no Adeptus, and no mechanicus, a traitor is hardly something to be proud of.

3. Yes, but RG probably would have been aware of this, and would have recorded it accordingly, being the bureaucrat of a warrior he is.

4. I don't know, it is hard to say. Alpharius was definately the Shortest of all the primarchs, and accordingly was probably less physically powerful, but he was a warrior, whereas Lorgar was a priest/missionary at heart. Hard to say. Plus, I am unsure as to whether you would have to have Alpharius+Omegon together, since they share a soul...idk. Doesn't matter. Toy soldiers.

Alpharius was killed by Roboute, but whether it was Alpharius or Omegon that died is unknown, and Gulliman didn't even confirm the kill, so whether either died is going to take a gakload of research.


Mortarion didn't survive, that is the point. Draigo killed him. And I know Angron was killed as well, but he took out near a full brotherhood of GK to die, and that is after his forces wiped Armeggeddon out.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Survived? He got banished tho...

2. Well...his legion was 3x bigger than any other...And calling Dorn, who happens to be the most loyal, honest and wise of all the primarchs, a traitor after HIS fortifications and HIS legion ("He" being Dorn) had just saved Terra and helped save Mars during their civil war Without whom, there would be no Terra, no Emperor, no Adeptus, and no mechanicus, a traitor is hardly something to be proud of.

3. Yes, but RG probably would have been aware of this, and would have recorded it accordingly, being the bureaucrat of a warrior he is.

4. I don't know, it is hard to say. Alpharius was definately the Shortest of all the primarchs, and accordingly was probably less physically powerful, but he was a warrior, whereas Lorgar was a priest/missionary at heart. Hard to say. Plus, I am unsure as to whether you would have to have Alpharius+Omegon together, since they share a soul...idk. Doesn't matter. Toy soldiers.

1. I'm surprised he didn't obliterate his soul with a dropkick.

2. Which is why it takes colossal balls to do that.

3. Would he of? IIRC no one was even aware that there was an Omegon.

4. Was he really a warrior? He seems to favor convoluted schemes and plots, rather than combat.

Officially, there is no Omegon. Only a few, the Emperor,Alpharius and the all knowing Gods among them, knew of his existence. Search for him on Lexicanium.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Magnus did NOT Teleport the thousand sons to the PotS, He allowed Tzeentch to take him.

Come on man, you have to get tired of being wrong sometimes.
Words

No, he does not tire. He will take the most ridiculous position and hold until relieved. He shall not fail! He shall not falter! He shall not cite actual sources! He shall not stop posting randomly created nonsense even when confronted by actual sources.

As I've said before, I think Horus is the overall best. Gulliman and AlphariusOmegon were better tacticians, Sanguinius was more charismatic, Leman Russ was a better fighter and Magnus was a strong psyker, but if you average everything out Horus is the best.

Come on lads. just a few more to Sanguinius and we knock Russ outta first place. Even if you hate Sanguinius, Russ is worse, right?

im2randomghgh wrote:
1. Survived? He got banished tho...

2. Well...his legion was 3x bigger than any other...And calling Dorn, who happens to be the most loyal, honest and wise of all the primarchs, a traitor after HIS fortifications and HIS legion ("He" being Dorn) had just saved Terra and helped save Mars during their civil war Without whom, there would be no Terra, no Emperor, no Adeptus, and no mechanicus, a traitor is hardly something to be proud of.

3. Yes, but RG probably would have been aware of this, and would have recorded it accordingly, being the bureaucrat of a warrior he is.

4. I don't know, it is hard to say. Alpharius was definately the Shortest of all the primarchs, and accordingly was probably less physically powerful, but he was a warrior, whereas Lorgar was a priest/missionary at heart. Hard to say. Plus, I am unsure as to whether you would have to have Alpharius+Omegon together, since they share a soul...idk. Doesn't matter. Toy soldiers.

1. I'm not sure if any of Draigo's fluff is meant to be taken seriously, since it reads more like a grand tale that is told to GK recruits to get them all motivated or whatever.

2. His Legion was one of the largest, true, but in large part due to the fact that they had the lowest casualty rates per engagement during the Great Crusade (this is now studio material, not BL). And this still invalidates your earlier claim that Guilliman didn't do anything except sit around writing books. The Ultima Segmentum is the largest portion of the Imperium for a reason. Wrong again, lulz.

3. The status of the Alpha Legion Primarchs is unclear, much like the status of the Legion itself. It has been declared as destroyed on multiple occasions, only to pop up again.

4. Shorter doesn't necessary mean less physically powerful. Magnus was the largest of them all, but I doubt he could beat Manus or Vulkan in an arm-wrestling match.

Lorgar being a pussy is honestly the only concrete ranking we can give any of the Primarchs, since their power level varies based on author and the protagonists of the particular book. The Blood Angels omnibus says Sanguinius was peerless when it came to marshal skill. Yet in Raven's Flight, Corax believes the only Primarchs who could defeat him in battle are Angron, Horus, and maybe Sanguinius, which would imply Sanguinius is below Angron and Horus in skill. Yet in First Heretic, Kurze managed to chase off Corax, albeit the latter had been fighting for a while. In Lightning Tower, Dorn's inner monologue has him not fearing any of his brothers in a martial contest, yet he got almost killed by Kurze (granted, this was a complete surprise attack). In Prospero Burns, Russ is described strutting around as "a warrior who knows he has no equal", yet he was fought to a stand-still by the Lion, who in turn had his brains bashed in by Kurze.

About the only one never mentioned as being a badass in any field is Lorgar. He admits himself he is no warrior, and his encounters with other Primarchs paint him out to be a limp-wristed ineffectual.

So based on the above, a rough ranking of purely martial skill would be something like this:

Tier 1: Horus, Angron and Sanguinius
Tier 2: Corax, Kurze, Russ, the Lion, Dorn(?)
Tier 3: Everyone else
Tier 438: Lorgar


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AustonT wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Magnus did NOT Teleport the thousand sons to the PotS, He allowed Tzeentch to take him.

Come on man, you have to get tired of being wrong sometimes.
Words

No, he does not tire. He will take the most ridiculous position and hold until relieved. He shall not fail! He shall not falter! He shall not cite actual sources! He shall not stop posting randomly created nonsense even when confronted by actual sources.

Lorgar is a fanatical Boss. In no way is he pansy. That's like calling a super-ripped, Warrior-Pope a pansy.

How is he a "boss"? He got led around by the nose by Erebus and Kor'Phaeron. The latter isn't even an Astartes.

Omegus wrote:How is he a "boss"? He got led around by the nose by Erebus and Kor'Phaeron. The latter isn't even an Astartes.

That's how. Anyone who thinks the best Primarch is a Loyalist is sadly mistaken. Daemon Princemarchs are the only way to go.

Looking like a badass doesn't make you one. Hell, he probably didn't even collect those heads on his belt himself, since his ascension he's been locked up in his tower "meditating upon the nature of Chaos."

...and
So he LOOKS super badass. Then gets hit by a flashlight and runs away.

Yeah, because that's totally how Daemon Princes act in-game. Weak, worthless units.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Survived? He got banished tho...

2. Well...his legion was 3x bigger than any other...And calling Dorn, who happens to be the most loyal, honest and wise of all the primarchs, a traitor after HIS fortifications and HIS legion ("He" being Dorn) had just saved Terra and helped save Mars during their civil war Without whom, there would be no Terra, no Emperor, no Adeptus, and no mechanicus, a traitor is hardly something to be proud of.

3. Yes, but RG probably would have been aware of this, and would have recorded it accordingly, being the bureaucrat of a warrior he is.

4. I don't know, it is hard to say. Alpharius was definately the Shortest of all the primarchs, and accordingly was probably less physically powerful, but he was a warrior, whereas Lorgar was a priest/missionary at heart. Hard to say. Plus, I am unsure as to whether you would have to have Alpharius+Omegon together, since they share a soul...idk. Doesn't matter. Toy soldiers.

1. I'm surprised he didn't obliterate his soul with a dropkick.

2. Which is why it takes colossal balls to do that.

3. Would he of? IIRC no one was even aware that there was an Omegon.

4. Was he really a warrior? He seems to favor convoluted schemes and plots, rather than combat.

If we're talking about colossal balls, the IF always win. They go into battle wearing bright yellow, and for sieges at that! Long range artillery would love it if all targets were yellow

Plus their meditation involves withstanding the absolute maximum amount of pain physically capable of passing along their nerves, pain to make a Dark Eldar question past actions.

Plus Valdor, the Dueler of Horuses, thought twice about dueling Dorn (In Nemesis, I believe)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Yeah, because that's totally how Daemon Princes act in-game. Weak, worthless units.

They are pretty tough in-game.

Though I do have to say, An'ggrath is capable of getting infinite attacks in CC, which is pretty beastly.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Yeah, because that's totally how Daemon Princes act in-game. Weak, worthless units.

I thought we were still talking about Lorgar.

Angron is one of the most martially capable Primarchs? Didn't know that. Thanks Omegus!

A lot of people I know just assume that Angron's a poor fighter because he's mentally damaged and lead a bunch of berserkers, but I'm glad to see some more confirmation that's not the case.

Omegus wrote:How is he a "boss"? He got led around by the nose by Erebus and Kor'Phaeron. The latter isn't even an Astartes.

To be perfectly fair, he's still a Primarch, and cut his way through Astartes on Istvaan V with ease. With Aurelian he seems to have bucked up thanks to Corax, and he wasn't elevated to Daemonhood for nothing. Early, days, hopefully ABD continues the story and we see Kor Phaeron given a good stern back hand out of an airlock.

As a loyal smurf player has to be Guilliman

For the Emprah!!!!

iproxtaco wrote:

Omegus wrote:How is he a "boss"? He got led around by the nose by Erebus and Kor'Phaeron. The latter isn't even an Astartes.

To be perfectly fair, he's still a Primarch, and cut his way through Astartes on Istvaan V with ease. With Aurelian he seems to have bucked up thanks to Corax, and he wasn't elevated to Daemonhood for nothing. Early, days, hopefully ABD continues the story and we see Kor Phaeron given a good stern back hand out of an airlock.

Didn't Kor Phaeron bite it in "Know No Fear"? I can't recall exactly.

Aurelian IMO is a bit of an over-reaction to the criticism for First Heretic. He goes from puny bookworm to this incredible badass overnight? Bah. He was probably just being fed oodles of power from the Gods, much like Horus later was in his showdown with the Emprah.

Speaking of Know No Fear, Guilliman put it best: "He is so… changeable. He is so prone to extremes. Eager to please, quick to take offence. There is no middle to him. He's so keen to be your best friend, and then, at the slightest perception of an insult, he's angry with you. Furious. Offended. Like a child. If he wasn't my brother, he'd be a political embarrassment and an impediment to the effective rule of the Imperium. I know what I'd do with him."

It pains me to say this, since I quite like the Word Bearers (at least in their trilogy of books...though the Iron Warriors make them look like carebears by comparison), but their Primarch was a little punk.

I voted for Vulkan. No, I cannot back this up reasonably in an argument. Honestly, I'd bet he's up there in the martial skill department. He saw off the Dark Eldar using forge hammers, after all. When you stop to consider that, it is pretty nuts. I always feel like he doesn't get mentioned as much because he's seldom fluff-featured, which is a vicious cycle. Even in Know No Fear, Guilliman referred to him as "that buried soul Vulkan". Which doesn't say much of anything!

Among his brothers, I can imagine him as the quiet guy who is upstaged by his more "noisy" brothers, but can wreck stuff quite effectively. Not to mention, it fits with the whole fire theme, as a creation/destruction symbol.

He also was capable of some pretty insane feats of creation. Not just his artifacts, but the fact that his gene-legacy has spawned a chapter that has some of the most talented armour and weapon manufacturers in the Imperium. Between this, and the Salamanders being one of the more true-to-purpose chapters remaining out there, they arguably hold a lot of hope for the Imperium.

Also, regarding Kor Phaeron in Know No Fear:

Plus, da Sallies are humanitarian and negro.

Loyalist - Sanguinius

Traitor - Magnus

All your base are belong to RUSS!

Horus as he nearly killed the emperor.

Deadshot wrote:Plus, da Sallies are humanitarian and negro.

Sallies aren't negro, they are as Caucasian as the rest of the galaxy apparently.

They have Jet Black skin. They are more negro than.negroes.

You guys left Sigmar off the list...

Squat Kid wrote:You guys left Sigmar off the list...

Haha, you're one cheeky bastard

Personally I voted Sanguinius. He's probably one of the most recognizable Primarchs and is far and away the most heroic of them. He is a martyr, and he has a really great story too. Yes he appears angelic and perfect, but he suffered his defeats and his victories. Also definitely because he is the one Primarch that most closely resonates with me. I mean, he had to have known the utter futility of fighting Horus who at that point was at pinnacle of his power, but he still did it.

That's just me though haha

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler