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im2randomghgh wrote:All primarchs had latent psychic abilities that were basically just psychic defenses (except maybe Angron because of the whole KHORNE thing) except Russ, Lorgar, and Magnus had active abilities, though they were fairly weak in the case of Russ and Lorgar. And the Wolves were NOT Russ' brothers, the Wulfen were fighting the TS, but the Wolves who fought alongside Russ were genuine Fenrisian wolves. And Magnus clearly wasn't very powerful if he got his eye crushed and back snapped by someone who's heart had been torn out. Plus, what does it matter if Magnus' eye went out? He had psychic senses. Plus, Russ had just beaten a legion into submission personally before the fight, whereas MAGNUS was meditating until a short time before the battle.

As for Sanguinius, Horus plainly stated that he was the most powerful, plus he killed a GD (GD>other primarchs) and then went on to fight another primarch and damaged his armour sufficiently for the Empy to be able to pwn him.

If we're including Black Library in the discussion, there are no wolves on Fenris, but rather mutated aspirants that succumbed to the Canix Helix. If we just stick to codex material, then there are all sorts of wolves running around Fenris. Regardless, brothers or wolves, the fact remains Russ had outside assistance against a guy who was already trying to do two things at once.

Magnus' eye was the core of his power, his one and only weapon spot. It got struck when Russ initiated his famed "flailing blindly" maneuver. Magnus wasn't meditating that time, he was preparing a ritual that would teleport his entire Legion away from Prospero. "Clearly wasn't very powerful"? Haha, good one.

And Horus NEVER said that, the fact that you inject "plainly stated" before some made up bs of your own, dispels what little credibility you had to begin with. Everything you post is a joke.

“Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his...”

Nothing about that statement reads "he is the most powerful". I'm adding your head to the list.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:All primarchs had latent psychic abilities that were basically just psychic defenses (except maybe Angron because of the whole KHORNE thing) except Russ, Lorgar, and Magnus had active abilities, though they were fairly weak in the case of Russ and Lorgar. And the Wolves were NOT Russ' brothers, the Wulfen were fighting the TS, but the Wolves who fought alongside Russ were genuine Fenrisian wolves. And Magnus clearly wasn't very powerful if he got his eye crushed and back snapped by someone who's heart had been torn out. Plus, what does it matter if Magnus' eye went out? He had psychic senses.

Plus, Russ had just beaten a legion into submission personally before the fight, whereas MAGNUS was meditating until a short time before the battle.

As for Sanguinius, Horus plainly stated that he was the most powerful, plus he killed a GD (GD>other primarchs) and then went on to fight another primarch and damaged his armour sufficiently for the Empy to be able to pwn him.

Lion El'Jonson was able to perceive the currents of the Warp, as noted by Zahariel, Sanguinius and Curze had foresight, and couldn't Corax basically make himself invisible? And yes, the Fenrisian wolves were almost definitely Freki and Geri, two Fenrisian wolves whom Leman Russ was raised alongside, essentially being his bros. And uh, normal Space Marines have two hearts. I doubt a heart wound would be too debilitating. And Magnus' eye going out matters mostly because it's his weak spot, and the source of his psychic sight IIRC.

Oh please, Russ sustained no damage at all during the siege proper, and certainly wasn't tired. When Magnus finally left his tower, he devastated the Wulfen, and then fought Russ personally while also killing scores of Space Wolves and Custodes, all while casting a spell to take the TS to the Planet of the Sorcerers.

Horus stated that he embodied the "Emperor's soul" in his blood. He didn't say he was the most powerful. What makes you think a Bloodthirster is stronger than the other Primarchs? In fact, aren't Bloodthirsters are said to "rival" Primarchs in terms of martial power, not necessarily surpass them? I don't know where you are getting that Bloodthirsters are above every Primarch except Sanguinius.


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Omegus wrote:Lorgar had some psychic ability that he kept repressed, and only manifested it briefly before getting his ass whooped by Corax. Russ had no eldritch abilities what-so-ever, except his howl disrupted psykers. Where are you getting this information from?

Russ' bellow is explicitly described as psychic in nature. Though, I am pretty sure there is a difference between psyker abilities and sorcery.

Magnus did NOT Teleport the thousand sons to the PotS, He allowed Tzeentch to take him.

Also, I never said Russ' ability to make wolves fight alongside him was a psychic ability, it is simply something he can do.

And losing a heart DOES matter, since the secondary one is meant to function as an auxilliary to the primary one, and the space marines cannot get enough oxygen to their bodies without a second heart to use their full strength, so yes, losing a heart matters.

And of course Russ would have been fatigued from the battle, not because of his physical exertion, but because of his psychic disruption of 1,000 sorcerers.

Actually, horus stated that he embodied the Emperor's ambition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omegus wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:All primarchs had latent psychic abilities that were basically just psychic defenses (except maybe Angron because of the whole KHORNE thing) except Russ, Lorgar, and Magnus had active abilities, though they were fairly weak in the case of Russ and Lorgar. And the Wolves were NOT Russ' brothers, the Wulfen were fighting the TS, but the Wolves who fought alongside Russ were genuine Fenrisian wolves. And Magnus clearly wasn't very powerful if he got his eye crushed and back snapped by someone who's heart had been torn out. Plus, what does it matter if Magnus' eye went out? He had psychic senses. Plus, Russ had just beaten a legion into submission personally before the fight, whereas MAGNUS was meditating until a short time before the battle.

As for Sanguinius, Horus plainly stated that he was the most powerful, plus he killed a GD (GD>other primarchs) and then went on to fight another primarch and damaged his armour sufficiently for the Empy to be able to pwn him.

If we're including Black Library in the discussion, there are no wolves on Fenris, but rather mutated aspirants that succumbed to the Canix Helix. If we just stick to codex material, then there are all sorts of wolves running around Fenris. Regardless, brothers or wolves, the fact remains Russ had outside assistance against a guy who was already trying to do two things at once.

Magnus' eye was the core of his power, his one and only weapon spot. It got struck when Russ initiated his famed "flailing blindly" maneuver. Magnus wasn't meditating that time, he was preparing a ritual that would teleport his entire Legion away from Prospero. "Clearly wasn't very powerful"? Haha, good one.

And Horus NEVER said that, the fact that you inject "plainly stated" before some made up bs of your own, dispels what little credibility you had to begin with. Everything you post is a joke.

“Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his...”

Nothing about that statement reads "he is the most powerful". I'm adding your head to the list.

The Wulfen are NOT Fenrisian wolves, Fenrisian wolves are what you see being ridden to battle as thunderwulves, Wulfen are some ugly fethers who are too hairy.

Oh I suppose that quote was the only mention of Sanguinius during the entire HH? [see forum posting rules].

Magnus did NOT teleport anyone anywhere, Tzeentch directly interfered, and whisked them away as soon as Magnus decided to join him.

im2randomghgh wrote:Magnus did NOT Teleport the thousand sons to the PotS, He allowed Tzeentch to take him.

He prepared the ritual in his pyramid and bade his sons to retreat to it. Before whispering the syllables that activated the spell, he looked upon Ahriman and told him "this is my last gift to you". The transportation of the Thousand Sons was Magnus' doing, at the cost of his corporeal form. If Tzeench had a part to play, it was rescuing Magnus specifically, but that's conjecture. So you are lying/making stuff up.

And losing a heart DOES matter, since the secondary one is meant to function as an auxilliary to the primary one, and the space marines cannot get enough oxygen to their bodies without a second heart to use their full strength, so yes, losing a heart matters.

Primarchs are not Space Marines, and their physiology may or may not contain a second heart. It is undoubtedly a severe wound, but unlikely to be fatal since Primarchs are shown to fully recover from pretty horrendous injuries (see Dorn after getting wtfpwnt by Night Haunter).

And of course Russ would have been fatigued from the battle, not because of his physical exertion, but because of his psychic disruption of 1,000 sorcerers.

Utter conjecture. Russ was fatigued from yelling now? You are making stuff up again.

The Wulfen are NOT Fenrisian wolves, Fenrisian wolves are what you see being ridden to battle as thunderwulves, Wulfen are some ugly fethers who are too hairy.

Oh I suppose that quote was the only mention of Sanguinius during the entire HH? [see forum posting rules].

You have still failed to provide a citation, merely insults.

im2randomghgh wrote:Magnus did NOT Teleport the thousand sons to the PotS, He allowed Tzeentch to take him.

Come on man, you have to get tired of being wrong sometimes.

"Even as he visualised them, the power in him spread to the entire Legion as Magnus gave the rest of his strength to save his sons."

As Omegus said, if Tzeentch did anything, it was save Magnus, and even that is suspect, since Magnus was the one who unmade his own body, disappearing and flowing into Ahriman, who was tasked with completing the spell.

Also, I never said Russ' ability to make wolves fight alongside him was a psychic ability, it is simply something he can do.

And losing a heart DOES matter, since the secondary one is meant to function as an auxilliary to the primary one, and the space marines cannot get enough oxygen to their bodies without a second heart to use their full strength, so yes, losing a heart matters.

Does it matter to a Primarch? And no, the second heart explicitly is also there to serve as a back-up if the other is destroyed, with the side effect of boosting the blood around a Marine's body.

And of course Russ would have been fatigued from the battle, not because of his physical exertion, but because of his psychic disruption of 1,000 sorcerers.

... He yelled. =\

Actually, horus stated that he embodied the Emperor's ambition.

Which doesn't disprove that he was never confirmed as the strongest.

Oh I suppose that quote was the only mention of Sanguinius during the entire HH? [see forum posting rules].

Then provide the quote you speak of, or at least tell us where you found it?

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Magnus did NOT Teleport the thousand sons to the PotS, He allowed Tzeentch to take him.

Come on man, you have to get tired of being wrong sometimes.

"Even as he visualised them, the power in him spread to the entire Legion as Magnus gave the rest of his strength to save his sons."

As Omegus said, if Tzeentch did anything, it was save Magnus, and even that is suspect, since Magnus was the one who unmade his own body, disappearing and flowing into Ahriman, who was tasked with completing the spell.

Also, I never said Russ' ability to make wolves fight alongside him was a psychic ability, it is simply something he can do.

And losing a heart DOES matter, since the secondary one is meant to function as an auxilliary to the primary one, and the space marines cannot get enough oxygen to their bodies without a second heart to use their full strength, so yes, losing a heart matters.

Does it matter to a Primarch? And no, the second heart explicitly is also there to serve as a back-up if the other is destroyed, with the side effect of boosting the blood around a Marine's body.

And of course Russ would have been fatigued from the battle, not because of his physical exertion, but because of his psychic disruption of 1,000 sorcerers.

... He yelled. =\

Actually, horus stated that he embodied the Emperor's ambition.

Which doesn't disprove that he was never confirmed as the strongest.

Oh I suppose that quote was the only mention of Sanguinius during the entire HH? [see forum posting rules].

Then provide the quote you speak of, or at least tell us where you found it?

1. So you think that during the fight Magnus built an entire planet in the warp and shifted his entire legion through time, space, and dimension while fighting another primarch? And you say that I am the one making stuff up.

2. So you think losing a heart is NBD? Really? If so I am wasting my time on you.

3. Not a physical yell, a Psychic Attack. Weren't you the one who just a few posts ago was talking about how Russ was an active psyker with this ability?

4. -_- "He" Being Horus, not Sanguinius.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. So you think that during the fight Magnus built an entire planet in the warp and shifted his entire legion through time, space, and dimension while fighting another primarch? And you say that I am the one making stuff up.

2. So you think losing a heart is NBD? Really? If so I am wasting my time on you.

3. Not a physical yell, a Psychic Attack. Weren't you the one who just a few posts ago was talking about how Russ was an active psyker with this ability?

4. -_- "He" Being Horus, not Sanguinius.

1. ... No. Well, not to the first part. He didn't build the planet, Tzeentch gave it to him. But he did shift the Legion to it, since that's what the text plainly states. To dispute this is to be in denial.

2. For a Primarch? You're damn friggin' right I do. Primarchs can take a Lascannon to the chest and be perfectly friggin' fine. Though frankly your argument is ridiculous, you're trying to say Magnus isn't very powerful if he had his back broken by someone with a punctured heart. Ignoring that Magnus is the one who punctured his heart.

3. Not active, latent. It was a latent psychic ability that didn't visible tire him at all, and physically was just a shout. Don't make details up just to support your argument.

4. Ah, okay. Still waiting for that quote.

Void__Dragon wrote:
2. For a Primarch? You're damn friggin' right I do. Primarchs can take a Lascannon to the chest and be perfectly friggin' fine. Though frankly your argument is ridiculous, you're trying to say Magnus isn't very powerful if he had his back broken by someone with a punctured heart. Ignoring that Magnus is the one who punctured his heart.

To be fair, Calgar, Lysander and others can take Lascannons to the chest and not blow up. Even if EW didn't exist, Draigo could still take a Lascannon and not think of it. As current, these 3 can take Volcano Cannons, big ass titan killing weapons, and walk away with barely a scratch.

Yeah, that's for balance., it doesn't mean they can take a nova blast and survive in the fluff. If they didn't have eternal warrior and died to melta guns, than no meta gamers would buy/paint/play these models.

I voted Vulkan, wsimply because I know nothing about the Horus Heresy and I play Salamanders. Any other choices would be Horus or Magnus the Red

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:1. So you think that during the fight Magnus built an entire planet in the warp and shifted his entire legion through time, space, and dimension while fighting another primarch? And you say that I am the one making stuff up.

2. So you think losing a heart is NBD? Really? If so I am wasting my time on you.

3. Not a physical yell, a Psychic Attack. Weren't you the one who just a few posts ago was talking about how Russ was an active psyker with this ability?

4. -_- "He" Being Horus, not Sanguinius.

1. ... No. Well, not to the first part. He didn't build the planet, Tzeentch gave it to him. But he did shift the Legion to it, since that's what the text plainly states. To dispute this is to be in denial.

2. For a Primarch? You're damn friggin' right I do. Primarchs can take a Lascannon to the chest and be perfectly friggin' fine. Though frankly your argument is ridiculous, you're trying to say Magnus isn't very powerful if he had his back broken by someone with a punctured heart. Ignoring that Magnus is the one who punctured his heart.

3. Not active, latent. It was a latent psychic ability that didn't visible tire him at all, and physically was just a shout. Don't make details up just to support your argument.

4. Ah, okay. Still waiting for that quote.

1. Well at least we can agree he did not build a planet.

2. That they can take a Lascannon to the chest means it is hard to damage them. Have your heart torn out means damage has already been inflicted. There is a distinction.

3. Source for it being latent?

4. Did you NOT read the phrase from Horus famous speech in the HH series where He fully stated that he, Horus, represented the Emperor's ambition?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toastedandy wrote:Yeah, that's for balance., it doesn't mean they can take a nova blast and survive in the fluff. If they didn't have eternal warrior and died to melta guns, than no meta gamers would buy/paint/play these models.

Well maybe those other guys, but Lysander is the kind of guy you see still standing when the smoke clears He's the kinda guy who would skip the drop pod and just hop into the atmosphere.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Well at least we can agree he did not build a planet.

2. That they can take a Lascannon to the chest means it is hard to damage them. Have your heart torn out means damage has already been inflicted. There is a distinction.

3. Source for it being latent?

4. Did you NOT read the phrase from Horus famous speech in the HH series where He fully stated that he, Horus, represented the Emperor's ambition?

1. No, of course not.

2. Space Marines can survive a heart being destroyed, and even fight after it is. A Primarch obviously could, and actually, Angron in After De'Shea notes that Kharn, a Marine, heals like he does (Though Kharn notices that Angron heals faster and better).

3. ... I'm not sure what the point of providing a source for this would be, but it's latent because he unconsciously manifested the powers, what makes you think he was aware of it? Especially considering his frothing hatred for psykers.

4. I'm not really sure what your point is. I'm asking for the quote where Horus plainly states Sanguinius is the strongest Primarch, hell, even the page of the book or just the book would be better than nothing.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Well at least we can agree he did not build a planet.

2. That they can take a Lascannon to the chest means it is hard to damage them. Have your heart torn out means damage has already been inflicted. There is a distinction.

3. Source for it being latent?

4. Did you NOT read the phrase from Horus famous speech in the HH series where He fully stated that he, Horus, represented the Emperor's ambition?

1. No, of course not.

2. Space Marines can survive a heart being destroyed, and even fight after it is. A Primarch obviously could, and actually, Angron in After De'Shea notes that Kharn, a Marine, heals like he does (Though Kharn notices that Angron heals faster and better).

3. ... I'm not sure what the point of providing a source for this would be, but it's latent because he unconsciously manifested the powers, what makes you think he was aware of it? Especially considering his frothing hatred for psykers.

4. I'm not really sure what your point is. I'm asking for the quote where Horus plainly states Sanguinius is the strongest Primarch, hell, even the page of the book or just the book would be better than nothing.

1. Good.

2. They can survive...though it would certainly have a massive impact on how well they are able to fight...aside from the humungous decrease in oxygen flowing to their muscles, the whole the size of a primarchs fist would not be able to stop bleed unless they spontaneously grey another heart, and blood loss on such a level would (not immediately, especially for a primarch) kill them without help from an apothecary.

3. So you automatically assume it was latent with no reason to make such an assumption? And Russ and his priests believed that their magic was not derived from the warp...they may be right, they may be wrong, but he would have no qualms about using his psychic abilities.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Good.

2. They can survive...though it would certainly have a massive impact on how well they are able to fight...aside from the humungous decrease in oxygen flowing to their muscles, the whole the size of a primarchs fist would not be able to stop bleed unless they spontaneously grey another heart, and blood loss on such a level would (not immediately, especially for a primarch) kill them without help from an apothecary.

3. So you automatically assume it was latent with no reason to make such an assumption? And Russ and his priests believed that their magic was not derived from the warp...they may be right, they may be wrong, but he would have no qualms about using his psychic abilities.

1. But he did whisk them away.

2. Didn't Lorgar have his chest cavity carved like a turkey by Corax, and he was fine relatively soon after Night Haunter bailed him out? Also, the notion of actual physics applying to 40k is laughable.

3. I assume it's latent because nowhere is it stated that Leman Russ was aware of his own psyker potential, and considering how the vast majority of the Primarchs did not have active psychic powers, what makes you assume it was active? Rune Priest nonsense would have come in handy when Magnus punched a hole in Russ' chest and pierced his heart, lol.

@ Lorgar, He didn't have anything torn out though, just a gakload of scratches

And a proper gakload, not some gak like Draigo did with Mortarion.

Actually, the Primarchs probably didn't have 2nd hearst. If they did, how was Draigo carve his predecessor's name into them? Did he write half and half? On, the back, " Morty" on one, and the other, "smells"?

Deadshot wrote:And a proper gakload, not some gak like Draigo did with Mortarion.

Actually, the Primarchs probably didn't have 2nd hearst. If they did, how was Draigo carve his predecessor's name into them? Did he write half and half? On, the back, " Morty" on one, and the other, "smells"?

Super-Exalt

1. The debate was not whether Magnus built the Planet of the Sorcerers (you were the only one to actually make that statement), but whether it was he that whisked his Legion to safety. The text pretty explicitly spells this out. So your claim that it was all Tzeench is wrong, but nice attempt at mis-direction.

2. I'm still not sure what this point is supposed to be arguing. I think Void Dragon said it best when he described your point as not making any damn sense. Magnus is a pussy because he got beat by a guy who had his heart punched out even though Magnus was the one who punched out his heart?

3. Why are you assuming it was consciously active? The Wolves demonstrated a remarkable/willing ignorance of the Warp-based nature of psychic powers, and Russ himself was not part of the Rune Priest tradition. All he did was yell, and this disrupted the concentration of psykers.

4. I love how you conveniently dropped this point off your list as soon as you were asked to provide a source for your claims.

Every one of your points so far has been dis-proven by cited material, including material you yourself cited. When are you just going to give it up?

After rereading the passage in A Thousand Sons, it only states that a shard of Russ' armour punctured his heart.

So... It's not like the heart was destroyed or missing, it was punctured, which no doubt injured Russ, but it's not like he was debilitated. Well, not by that alone.

Omegus wrote:1. The debate was not whether Magnus built the Planet of the Sorcerers (you were the only one to actually make that statement), but whether it was he that whisked his Legion to safety. The text pretty explicitly spells this out. So your claim that it was all Tzeench is wrong, but nice attempt at mis-direction.

2. I'm still not sure what this point is supposed to be arguing. I think Void Dragon said it best when he described your point as not making any damn sense. Magnus is a pussy because he got beat by a guy who had his heart punched out even though Magnus was the one who punched out his heart?

3. Why are you assuming it was consciously active? The Wolves demonstrated a remarkable/willing ignorance of the Warp-based nature of psychic powers, and Russ himself was not part of the Rune Priest tradition. All he did was yell, and this disrupted the concentration of psykers.

4. I love how you conveniently dropped this point off your list as soon as you were asked to provide a source for your claims.

Every one of your points so far has been dis-proven by cited material, including material you yourself cited. When are you just going to give it up?

1. quote or it didn't happen.

2. No, the point was that Magnus' guard was so entirely down during the fight that he couldn't stop a blow that according to you guys was damn near useless, from a wounded opponent who according to you guys was but a gnat to be squashed in Magnus' eyes.

3. Why are you assuming it's passive? And the Space Wolf belief that they use non-warp based sorcery MAY be correct, since shamans (non-warp using psykers of old earth) are what made the Emperor, and the SW rituals are definately...shamanic...in nature.

4. I love how you expect me to re-read the HH series start to finish just to prove a point to an individual who I haven't/ won't meet for the sake of a conversation that is already long past the point where it should have been locked.

im2randomghgh wrote:@ Lorgar, He didn't have anything torn out though, just a gakload of scratches

If by gakload of scratches, you mean Corax rammed his fist through Lorgar's chest and proceeded to carve him up like a pumpkin, sure.

FinalAnswer wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:@ Lorgar, He didn't have anything torn out though, just a gakload of scratches

If by gakload of scratches, you mean Corax rammed his fist through Lorgar's chest and proceeded to carve him up like a pumpkin, sure.

That's exactly what I mean.

Lorgar is win. 'Nuff said.

im2randomghgh wrote:

FinalAnswer wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:@ Lorgar, He didn't have anything torn out though, just a gakload of scratches

If by gakload of scratches, you mean Corax rammed his fist through Lorgar's chest and proceeded to carve him up like a pumpkin, sure.

That's exactly what I mean.

Well, I don't really see much difference between getting something torn out or having it shredded by lightning claws wielded by a primarch, but kay.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. quote or it didn't happen.

2. No, the point was that Magnus' guard was so entirely down during the fight that he couldn't stop a blow that according to you guys was damn near useless, from a wounded opponent who according to you guys was but a gnat to be squashed in Magnus' eyes.

3. Why are you assuming it's passive? And the Space Wolf belief that they use non-warp based sorcery MAY be correct, since shamans (non-warp using psykers of old earth) are what made the Emperor, and the SW rituals are definately...shamanic...in nature.

4. I love how you expect me to re-read the HH series start to finish just to prove a point to an individual who I haven't/ won't meet for the sake of a conversation that is already long past the point where it should have been locked.

1. Lol?

I already quoted it.

"Even as he visualised them, the power in him spread to the entire Legion as Magnus gave the rest of his strength to save his sons."

2. He was just hit in the eye. The source of his power, and the only eye he has. Russ flailed blindly and scored a "fated" hit. Given the wording, Tzeentch having his hands in that seems fairly likely.

3. The shamans of Old Earth used the Warp dude. Seriously, shaman, witches, sorcerers, rune priests, psykers... The name changes, but it all comes from the same place. Oh, and Ahriman was able to PROVE to Othere by forcefully implanting the knowledge in him, that he was a hypocrite, and not as special a snowflake as he thought. He then threw Othere's soul to daemons.

4. I haven't memorised every detail of the HH, but I do remember roughly where in the story the details that support my claims come from, and can quote them. I have quoted them. Don't make a claim in a discussion unless you can prove it.

im2randomghgh wrote:

1. quote or it didn't happen.

2. No, the point was that Magnus' guard was so entirely down during the fight that he couldn't stop a blow that according to you guys was damn near useless, from a wounded opponent who according to you guys was but a gnat to be squashed in Magnus' eyes.

3. Why are you assuming it's passive? And the Space Wolf belief that they use non-warp based sorcery MAY be correct, since shamans (non-warp using psykers of old earth) are what made the Emperor, and the SW rituals are definately...shamanic...in nature.

4. I love how you expect me to re-read the HH series start to finish just to prove a point to an individual who I haven't/ won't meet for the sake of a conversation that is already long past the point where it should have been locked.

1. It's already been quoted. Learn to read.

2. Magnus punched Russ through his chest and fried him with lightning, leaving Russ "flailing blindly". At this point Russ' two wolves jumped on him, so Magnus took a moment to take care of them, and turned around right in time for one of Russ's blind swings to hit his eye, the core of his being and power. I know you are trying to discredit our argument via hyperbole, but neither myself nor Void Dragon claimed Russ was "damn near useless". You, on the other hand, have dismissed all the Primarchs as a bunch of pansies.

3. I am assuming it's passive because Russ was not part of the Rune Priest tradition, and did not utilize any other psychic powers to any extent except to yell. The stronger bet is them being passive. The Space Wolves belief is wrong. The shamans that combined to form the Emperor used the Warp, they didn't believe they were "channeling the cycle of life and death of Earth."

4. Ah, I get it, so when we provide citations from written material, we're just "accepting books that only conform to our point of view." When you're asked to cite references for your outlandish notions, you can't be bothered (which is super ironic considering you just demanded a citation yourself... one that had already been provided... twice).

I do agree with you that the thread is long past its use, however, since the amount of wrong you've spewed/invented in the two Primarch threads is almost enough to create a whole alternate universe with as large a background as 40K.

Omegus wrote:dismissed all the Primarchs as a bunch of pansies.

To be fair, a few were pansies. Mortarion, Rowboat, Alpharius/Omegon, Lorgar.

Mortarion-Just read Draigo's fluff.

Rowboat Girlyman-Enough said.

Alpharius Omegon- One of them was killed by Rowboat.

Lorgar allowed a human and a Chaplain to tell him what to do. He was a big Chaplain himself, even in his weapon.

Deadshot wrote:To be fair, a few were pansies. Mortarion, Rowboat, Alpharius/Omegon, Lorgar.

Mortarion-Just read Draigo's fluff.

Rowboat Girlyman-Enough said.

Alpharius Omegon- One of them was killed by Rowboat.

Lorgar allowed a human and a Chaplain to tell him what to do. He was a big Chaplain himself, even in his weapon.

Mortarion being beaten by Draigo isn't actually a bad feat when you consider the other things Draigo has done. Plus that happened right after he killed the original Supreme Grand Master.

What makes you think Roboute Guilliman is a pansy? I mean, other than things the buttmad haters said?

Actually, neither of them were killed by Roboute.

Lorgar was relatively a pansy though, yeah.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Deadshot wrote:To be fair, a few were pansies. Mortarion, Rowboat, Alpharius/Omegon, Lorgar.

Mortarion-Just read Draigo's fluff.

Rowboat Girlyman-Enough said.

Alpharius Omegon- One of them was killed by Rowboat.

Lorgar allowed a human and a Chaplain to tell him what to do. He was a big Chaplain himself, even in his weapon.

Mortarion being beaten by Draigo isn't actually a bad feat when you consider the other things Draigo has done. Plus that happened right after he killed the original Supreme Grand Master.

What makes you think Roboute Guilliman is a pansy? I mean, other than things the buttmad haters said?

Actually, neither of them were killed by Roboute.

Lorgar was relatively a pansy though, yeah.

It took a second to register the first part...but did you just call it a feat to be defeated by Draigo? Mild confusion

Because RG was writing a book while everyone else was conquering the galaxy. And because he wasn't able to give a simple "cease and desist" to the Word Bearers without help from Malcador, custodes, his entire legion, AND THE EMPEROR. :/ yeah, that was a bit of a rant, sorry.

Really? I thought I read that one of them was?

And Agreed. In a book written form Lorgar's perspective, he described himself as being one of the martially/physically weaker primarchs, and proceeded to get swiss cheese'd by Corax

Omegon, Alpharius is just a chump.

im2randomghgh wrote:It took a second to register the first part...but did you just call it a feat to be defeated by Draigo? Mild confusion

Because RG was writing a book while everyone else was conquering the galaxy. And because he wasn't able to give a simple "cease and desist" to the Word Bearers without help from Malcador, custodes, his entire legion, AND THE EMPEROR. :/ yeah, that was a bit of a rant, sorry.

Really? I thought I read that one of them was?

And Agreed. In a book written form Lorgar's perspective, he described himself as being one of the martially/physically weaker primarchs, and proceeded to get swiss cheese'd by Corax

1. No, I'm saying that considering how fething ridiculous the things Draigo has done are, it's a miracle that Mortarion survived at all.

2. Uh, I'm pretty sure Guilliman's record in the Great Crusade was one of the best of the Primarchs, and beyond that he didn't just crush the opposition, he left worlds better off than they were before he arrived. Also, uh, didn't the Emperor order him to basically do what he did? Plus he had the enormous sack to call Dorn a traitor. The audacity some gak like that takes is incredible.

3. It's actually hard to say. One of them may of been killed by Guilliman, but Alpharius was known to have doubles among the mere Marines to take his place, so it's speculated that one of them was sent to die.

4. Well, yeah. Lorgar admits he's not much of a fighter compared to his brothers, though, I personally believe Alpharius is weaker personally.