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If we can refrain from veering off onto tangent discussions over marines versus xenos books and the numbers thereof it'd be appreciated. There's always 40k general to discuss such a thing if you must.

Thanks.

Warrior Squirrel wrote:I like the idea of a ethereal suit with a huge honor blade.

I can picture it now, a really gakky action movie: "He tried to convince the senate, but they had given in to corruption. Then the Imperium killed his family and now he´s out for revenge! Ethereal O´Killah in the all new made for tv movie: The Politician - Total Annihilation! ... this time, its personal.

The CC suits could very well be for tarpitting, and that's a lot easier to work in with fluff. Imagine a heavy armor suit with a shield and a flamer and special defensive charges or whatnot. Not actually offensively capable, but able to defend well against CC attacks.

I would not feel that something like that falls entirely outside of the tau style.

CC oriented suit will eventually come, for Honour Guards such as the ones with Aun`Va (I think he died on some novel or so), so that they can face bigger challenges. Honour Blade and energy shields... I can see it.

Suit with Flamers and giant shields, Suits with Spears/Plasma powered swords would be awesome too... Time to stop the wish list for Tau CC suits and get real if they ever made one, it will be not for offensive, but to hold enemys with a double energy shield and best them by stopping their movement and holding the lane while the rest of the army shoots as much as they want.

I like the Shield+Heavy Flamer Suit idea, but, it will have to be very bulky and capable to hold on the Tyranids on CC, since their fluff will probably come from Tyranids invasions i think, and the CC suits would come from the Orks invasions to fight against Nobles and huge Hordes of greenskinz

tarnish wrote:

Warrior Squirrel wrote:I like the idea of a ethereal suit with a huge honor blade.

I can picture it now, a really gakky action movie: "He tried to convince the senate, but they had given in to corruption. Then the Imperium killed his family and now he´s out for revenge! Ethereal O´Killah in the all new made for tv movie: The Politician - Total Annihilation! ... this time, its personal.

Check out Metal Wolf Chaos which, sadly, was never released in the US. From the developers of the Armored Core games, you play as the President of the United States who uses an advanced power armor suit to fight a coup attempt by your corrupt VP.

I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!! Though the Demiurg sound like they will be nothing like the Dwarfs of old.

At this point I am more or less waiting for the eventual picture leak to come out.


**Edit: How could I possible screw it up worse in the edit than the original?

Dantalian wrote:I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!!

Space Dwarven Golems in Power Armor?

I suppose weirder things have happened

Dantalian wrote:I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!! Though the Demiurg sound like they will be nothing like the Dwarfs of old.

At this point I am more or less waiting for the eventual picture leak to come out.


**Edit: How could I possible screw it up worse in the edit than the original?

I can see SM players complaining about this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:They most certainly are not Archonate. Some people might treat their Marine armies in a modular fashion, but saying that GK, BA, DA and SW are all variations on the same army is quite wrong.

Sorry but I have to make a comment.

So according to your statement CSM should get a codex per army type? But the problem is that they don't and for this reason a lot of people hate SM armies and decide not to play them. It just seem wrong for them to get a NEW codex when one just came out for them.

thevirus wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I can still see the demiurg being the ones with the CC suit though. If it is going to be as big as a dreadnought, it will probably fight like one too. Also they are DWARFS, AND DWARFS R 4 FITE!! Though the Demiurg sound like they will be nothing like the Dwarfs of old.

At this point I am more or less waiting for the eventual picture leak to come out.


**Edit: How could I possible screw it up worse in the edit than the original?

I can see SM players complaining about this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:They most certainly are not Archonate. Some people might treat their Marine armies in a modular fashion, but saying that GK, BA, DA and SW are all variations on the same army is quite wrong.

Sorry but I have to make a comment.

So according to your statement CSM should get a codex per army type? But the problem is that they don't and for this reason a lot of people hate SM armies and decide not to play them. It just seem wrong for them to get a NEW codex when one just came out for them.

Sorry, but I have to make a counter-comment. This is supposedly what they're doing when the Chaos release comes around. They already split off Chaos Daemons from the main book so now it's Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. According to what I've been reading both on these forums and over on BoLS and Warseer they're splitting the book again into Chaos Legions and Chaos Renegades, with Renegades supposedly having traitor guard and stuff like the cultists and maybe even the Red Corsairs, and Chaos Legions having the traitor space marine legions, e.g. World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and the Black Legion. So that brings the total Chaos books up to three, Chaos Legions, Chaos Renegades and Chaos Daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, I'd assume Chaos Daemons plays far, FAR, differently then Chaos Space Marines, and CSM and Daemons play differently than IG (which is possibly how the Chaos Renegades book will play)

TheMind wrote:Sorry, but I have to make a counter-comment. This is supposedly what they're doing when the Chaos release comes around. They already split off Chaos Daemons from the main book so now it's Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. According to what I've been reading both on these forums and over on BoLS and Warseer they're splitting the book again into Chaos Legions and Chaos Renegades, with Renegades supposedly having traitor guard and stuff like the cultists and maybe even the Red Corsairs, and Chaos Legions having the traitor space marine legions, e.g. World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and the Black Legion. So that brings the total Chaos books up to three, Chaos Legions, Chaos Renegades and Chaos Daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, I'd assume Chaos Daemons plays far, FAR, differently then Chaos Space Marines, and CSM and Daemons play differently than IG (which is possibly how the Chaos Renegades book will play)

I hate to add this off-topic tirade, but I can't resist. I think you missed his point entirely. He could have just as easily said 'a codex for each DE Kabal' or 'a codex for each hive fleet' or 'a codex for each (insert non-SM sub faction)' His point is that the sub factions for all other armies are sufficiently represented by their codex and there's no need to differentiate them to the point of multiple codices. SM really have no reason to be an exception to this. They just are. Would they sell fewer SMs if all chapters had to share one codex? I highly doubt it. Plus all SM players would be updated simultaneously, just like all other sub factions of all other armies, and we wouldn't have to wait for SMs between all the interesting releases.

I know the mods are getting squeamish about the perpetuation of this subject, and I'm sorry, but I feel that this is somewhat relevant to Tau rumors. The Tau release date is upsettingly far off because redundant releases are clogging up the schedule. I am very excited about new Tau. At this point there is no army more deserving of an update.

Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

Ah I see, I suppose that makes more sense. As for your question: Supposedly they are. That's one of the things that has been corroborated across multiple sources.

Is that so? Nice...

Any word on the Greater Knarloc? It is "owned" by GW since its in the 40kApoc book. It'd fill the Tau MC quota as well.

Edit: Just wondering what are these "multiple sources" that have been corroborated?

Archonate wrote:Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

From what the other codex got the TAU should get them and the should get a variant types of Hammerheads.

thevirus wrote:

Archonate wrote:Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

From what the other codex got the TAU should get them and the should get a variant types of Hammerheads.

Necrons didnt get the Tomb Stalker though

But XV9's and the Hammerhead variants are much easier to market/make in plastic I suppose

thevirus wrote:

Archonate wrote:Closer to topic: Does anybody know if XV9 battlesuits will be in the codex? Those are some of the most amazing Forgeworld models ever...

From what the other codex got the TAU should get them and the should get a variant types of Hammerheads.

I find it hard to see something better than the current Railgun Fielded. Unless they go full IG and give Tau crazy artillery.

Dantalian wrote:
I find it hard to see something better than the current Railgun Fielded. Unless they go full IG and give Tau crazy artillery.

But FW already made the turrets years ago

Mind as well use them. Though because on how awesome railguns are, theres going to need to be some better incentives to choose other guns


http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-VEHICLES?filter_reset=1

I like the idea of the RailGun shooting a line shot that hits multiple targets rather than just one. roll to hit the first, then draw a line 72" and every model gets hit with a subsequently weaker shot == 10>9>8>7... .etc.

That isn't based on any rumor whatsoever but i think it would fit the theme of the weapon and would be awesome powerful.


Edit - okay so maybe a rumor i forgot i heard. LOL. I'm hoping for it.

The line idea has been posited in some rumours in the past.

A number of highly powerful line attacks in the current Edition (Jaws of the World Wolf and Death Ray) give some credence to the rumour.

Probably only on the Hammerheads though, there has to be more reason to take them than a template

IMO, Hammerheads should be like the Necron Doom Scythe's Death Ray, but with 72" straight line from the barrel rather than nominating a point and additional 3D6" line to a second point. I don't see the point in reducing strength given the BA Blood Lance and Necron Death Ray doesn't suffer the same drawbacks.

I'd be fine with either version, just something that can hit multiple targets.


Edit- while i'm wishlisting, make XV88's relentless automatically and give room for the BS4 upgrade.

I am wishing for a playable Ethereal.

Hell, they could keep everything the same and just lower the cost of Markerlights and Devilfish and I'd be a happy camper.

It would be really nice to see the line shot on the Railhead though. As it stands now, Missile Pods are more than enough against any army but IG to destroy vehicles. No one I play with brings Land Raiders, so the Railheads I have just shoot subs every turn and barely pop any vehicles.

It'd be cool to catch 2 or 3 transports in a line and pop 'em all at once. I can almost taste the rage.

Edit: I know there are still Monoliths and Samael's Land Speeder around, but I don't play them that much...

Mar'tacus wrote:Hell, they could keep everything the same and just lower the cost of Markerlights and Devilfish and I'd be a happy camper.

It would be really nice to see the line shot on the Railhead though. As it stands now, Missile Pods are more than enough against any army but IG to destroy vehicles. No one I play with brings Land Raiders, so the Railheads I have just shoot subs every turn and barely pop any vehicles.

It'd be cool to catch 2 or 3 transports in a line and pop 'em all at once. I can almost taste the rage.

Edit: I know there are still Monoliths and Samael's Land Speeder around, but I don't play them that much...

Meh they would have to do a lot more than that.

-Lower cost of FW (Entire Army in general)
-Markerlights should be all markerlight. I think it's stupid a squad can't use their own.
+Markerlights could be helped if they were easier to field. Right now they are painfully limited with pathfinders being the biggest contributers. But you are forced to take a devilfish (that they rarely use) and they are expensive because of it.
+Would be helpful if markerlights were not heavy weapons so you can move around some. Scouts that have to remain stationary? (Though this is more or less a hope, heavy being a little better to balance them)
+Make markerlight tokens spent count as a bonus for the entire army. Though you would have to limit the benifits from marker lights to make this not utterly broken. Then again you can do without this is the army as a whole gets a BS buff.
+Make seeker missiles hit regardless (Yah, hopeless dream). Having to hit twice is kinda annoying and makes them a lot less useful in the longrun. And especially annoying when dealing with things like KFF.
-Cheapter suits without saying, though current suit layouts are okay with me
+more Hardpoint options
+Better weapon choices with more incentive to use them
-+oughness 5. Were I play there is a lot of IG and Longfang players and everything they use is ID. And now we have a lot of GK players which also pack a lot of ID weapons for Tau.
-Cheaper Devilfish. Overall it's not bad as a troop carrier as is.
-Flying transport (I hope that rumor is true)
-More ST8 and 9 weapons
-Ethereal needs to be better overall and have Eternal Warrior or something, too much ID weapons against Tau.
-Stealthsuits need the biggest price drop IMO. Other than that I think they are doing okay.
-Some more template weapons
-Kroot need to be stronger in general, I love these guys but they are glorified meat shield most the time.
+Assault weapons, enough said
+I swear they are the only dedicated melee without some passive buff like fleet or furious charge (Operative word: Think)
+Shaper way too expensive
+Shaper armor is too weak
+Maybe give shaper a heavier (AV) weapon? I wouldn't mind paying the current cost for him if he had one.
+Hounds kinda fall into the same area were they have no passive buffs on them.
-Gun drones BS skill 2 is really funny
+Fearless, they're damn drones!
+Better BS
+More weapon choices
-Piranhas maybe a small price reduction
-Vespids, I don't know really since I have never used them in the 10+ years I have played Tau.
-Broadsides are fine, small price reduction maybe.
-Hammerhead is fine, needs some more weapons
-Skyray (I really want to use these again)
+Maybe unlimited missiles? Make it so they can only fire so many a turn. Upgrades to make them fire more, kinda like purchasing the missiles in the first place but gives shots per turn increase.
+More Missile Options (Anti-Infantry missile that templates maybe)
-Sniper Drones
+BS 2/3 Snipers? Fix it.
+Another unit that is way out of proportion of cost to effectiveness
+Better sniper weapons? Maybe something that Rends?
+Increase the sniper drone count per squad.


Overall I think were Tau suffer the most is obvious. The price of troops in 4th edition compared to the price of troops in 5th are out of whack. I think if you were to cut 10% off the cost of all units, that would fix a lot of problems. And the amount of ID strength weapons capable of being fielding in 5th went up drastically. And since Tau are happily and utterly completely unable to deal with it (ok shield drones, but it doesn't help much with IG artillery), they tend to fall apart after a couple good artillery hits. I wanna say no effective way to handle melee hordes, but they are Tau and that's kinda supposed to be their weakness.

Of course these balance ideas are all from the perspective of the current edition. 6th maybe another animal all together. And with the new troops from the coming codex, maybe some of these units will be obsolete. The way I see it there are a lot of current weapons that we will see more frequently in the next codex. A lot of weapons like the AirBust, Railrifle and Cyclic Ion Blaster maybe weapon choices since they were merely in "testing" for future use as standard weapons. But these last ten years have been a shaky road for the Tau, with the last three or so years a stumble and then face plant into the ground. I miss being able to make my opponent worry some when I put my 4 devilfish on the table, or at times fielding 6 broadsides and no hammerheads for the fun of it. I want my opponent to cringe a little instead of writing the game off as a win before it starts.

The biggest flaw in everyone's Tau wishlist that I see is a higher BS.

Your average IG trooper has BS3, right? And we have a weapon that wounds plenty of infantry units on a 2+! Markerlights solve nearly every problem with shooting that the Tau have, they just need to be cheaper and more available. IMO, 30 points for an immobile (if you want it to shoot) Marker Drone is just nuts.

And while I agree that most everything in the codex needs its point cost dropped, I'm trying to be conservative with my expectations. I've only just started playing, but if what I hear about GW is true, I figure this is best, lest I be disappointed that I chose to play a non SPESS MEHREEN army.

SabrX wrote:IMO, Hammerheads should be like the Necron Doom Scythe's Death Ray, but with 72" straight line from the barrel rather than nominating a point and additional 3D6" line to a second point. I don't see the point in reducing strength given the BA Blood Lance and Necron Death Ray doesn't suffer the same drawbacks.

That would be way to good. The Deathray has a lot of drawbacks, such as it's high cost, fragility, and random distance to take into account for it's weapon. The Hammerhead would have to not only take a serious price rise for what you are suggesting, but also come with some serious drawbacks.

Making Pathfinders 10-11 ppm and dropping the cost of their DF, even if you continue to force them to take it, will intrinsicly lower the cost of Markerlights. I would also like the Fish itself to have Markerlights on it. If you could swap the Carbine drones for marker drones on the PF Fish that might be pretty sharp too. Detatch the little buggers and let them do their business, or have them stay on the vehicle.

Gundrone squads could use a points drop, too. If Stealth suits can get 18 S5 shots with an AS 3 and a stealth field for 10 points per shot there is no reason why gundrones can't be had for the same cost or cheaper.

Sasori wrote:

SabrX wrote:IMO, Hammerheads should be like the Necron Doom Scythe's Death Ray, but with 72" straight line from the barrel rather than nominating a point and additional 3D6" line to a second point. I don't see the point in reducing strength given the BA Blood Lance and Necron Death Ray doesn't suffer the same drawbacks.

That would be way to good. The Deathray has a lot of drawbacks, such as it's high cost, fragility, and random distance to take into account for it's weapon. The Hammerhead would have to not only take a serious price rise for what you are suggesting, but also come with some serious drawbacks.

Hammerhead is already decently overpriced as it is, wouldn't need a serious disadvantage to provide that upgrade. Maybe make it an Ordnance mode.

Mar'tacus wrote:The biggest flaw in everyone's Tau wishlist that I see is a higher BS.

Your average IG trooper has BS3, right? And we have a weapon that wounds plenty of infantry units on a 2+! Markerlights solve nearly every problem with shooting that the Tau have, they just need to be cheaper and more available. IMO, 30 points for an immobile (if you want it to shoot) Marker Drone is just nuts.

And while I agree that most everything in the codex needs its point cost dropped, I'm trying to be conservative with my expectations. I've only just started playing, but if what I hear about GW is true, I figure this is best, lest I be disappointed that I chose to play a non SPESS MEHREEN army.

The problem is that Firewarriors are supposed to be elite riflemen that spend their entire, admittedly short, lives training to use the pulse rifle. The fact that they are BS 3 base is unacceptable. BS 4 base is the least I expect, hell they don't even have to change anything else. Just up the BS of every Tau unit in the codex by 1. Suddenly the codex is almost completely viable.

TheMind wrote:

Mar'tacus wrote:The biggest flaw in everyone's Tau wishlist that I see is a higher BS.

Your average IG trooper has BS3, right? And we have a weapon that wounds plenty of infantry units on a 2+! Markerlights solve nearly every problem with shooting that the Tau have, they just need to be cheaper and more available. IMO, 30 points for an immobile (if you want it to shoot) Marker Drone is just nuts.

And while I agree that most everything in the codex needs its point cost dropped, I'm trying to be conservative with my expectations. I've only just started playing, but if what I hear about GW is true, I figure this is best, lest I be disappointed that I chose to play a non SPESS MEHREEN army.

The problem is that Firewarriors are supposed to be elite riflemen that spend their entire, admittedly short, lives training to use the pulse rifle. The fact that they are BS 3 base is unacceptable. BS 4 base is the least I expect, hell they don't even have to change anything else. Just up the BS of every Tau unit in the codex by 1. Suddenly the codex is almost completely viable.

Hell I would be happy with just the suits and vehicles having a natural BS4 and FW stayed BS3. What I more or less would like to see is FW getting buffed by external factors like ethereal or drones. But I do have to agree that the fluff for Fire Warriors doesn't support them having a BS3. The problem with an overall BS increase though is that markerlights would become a lot less usefull since they can only max out a BS score to 5. Then again this would make markerlights better in the regard that you will probably have extra markerlight hits laying around for things like seeker missiles or leadership drops. I think the only reason right now the average BS is 3 in Tau is simply because we have markerlights, but we don't have enough markerlights to make up for a lower average BS :L

Bottom line is that everyone has a 20 item wishlist, but if you randomly selected 5 things from them, the army would be playable.