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I've seen a lot of posts in the Tyranid threads about how it is too early to judge the new book (a fairly reasonable assessment as the book has been unreleased through most of the backlash)

A reminder that the best codexes of 6th had similar doomsaying and general internet doom and gloom reactions in the run up to their release has been noted quite frequently as well. For those on that side of the fence what do you see as being the "Diamond in the rough" as it were? This should be the easiest codex to decipher as there is no added cross codex synergies to consider from the complete lack of allies/dataslates/expanded FoC options.

So what will be making people eat their words in the coming weeks/months?

We all knew Wave Serpents were busted nine seconds after their stats dropped. As for Tyranids, the army doesn't have any units with good buffy to pass to other units in quantity. The closest is has to synergy is being crippled when the synapse units are all dead.

As for what the hidden gem will be, I'm thinking that the Mawloc will be the spammed unit of choice for the book.

The Heavy slot seems to have the lions share for sure.

If Biovores place D3 mines if they miss, is there anything stopping you from immediately charging with that new unit? They didn't enter from reserves.

Mawloc's underground strike allows for potentially 2 large blast str.6 ap.2 ignore cover blasts. Ya, goodbye broadside spam.

That's about all I can see that is cheesy initially.

 buddha wrote:
Mawloc's underground strike allows for potentially 2 large blast str.6 ap.2 ignore cover blasts. Ya, goodbye broadside spam.

That's about all I can see that is cheesy initially.

Yay more things that hose meqs but Xenos don't care about!

To be fair, Mawlocs will also excel at killing 3 man units of Eldar jetbikes, and 10 man cultist squads. The only deck chair units they'll have trouble with are daemons.

 Eldarain wrote:
I've seen a lot of posts in the Tyranid threads about how it is too early to judge the new book (a fairly reasonable assessment as the book has been unreleased through most of the backlash)

A reminder that the best codexes of 6th had similar doomsaying and general internet doom and gloom reactions in the run up to their release has been noted quite frequently as well. For those on that side of the fence what do you see as being the "Diamond in the rough" as it were? This should be the easiest codex to decipher as there is no added cross codex synergies to consider from the complete lack of allies/dataslates/expanded FoC options.

a reminder that all of those codexes that got doomsday remarks were before the codex was dropped, and after it was the complaining shriveled up and died, all expert for a few minor complaints ( see exhibit a, howling banshees).
The difference with tyranids is that the codex is FULLY leaked, and released in some parts. we know whats inside, and its not good. same as 5th, with minor changes, posts increase and nerfs. thats basically it.
My brother was going to start tyranids. He wanted to start them a while ago. if i were him, i would have bought an army then. But no, he waited. Now hes seen whats inside the codex hes saved tons of money and has smartly decided to not play them. I respect him, because i would have blown and wasted money right there.

Will there be a diamond in the mud? i very very very much doubt it, but who knows. maybe gw will release a errata changing everything, or maybe just one thing, in the dex making it vaible. i doubt it, but who knows?

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
To be fair, Mawlocs will also excel at killing 3 man units of Eldar jetbikes, and 10 man cultist squads. The only deck chair units they'll have trouble with are daemons.

Seer councils and Serpents don't care. And sniper Kroot are cheap enough to give away. That's what matters.

It really depends on what you consider spawming, tervigons despite being more expensive you can still spawm em, sure you will get 1 less tervigon that you use to, but now that for em to become troops you get a 30 sized horde of gaunts which is pain enough and not giving such each kills as 10 man minimum size.

Another unit that got better was the hive guard, no longer synapse depending to get ignore line of sight and ignore cover rules, now its really watever with those impaler cannons since the weapon removed that weakness so you will see them quite often.

You might also see zoanthropes for a number of reasons but mainly 1 of them few with choices to roll on the table to get catalysm and other powers on 50pt model, also the brood just test once for their powers to cast it multiple times. (bigger synapse bubble, bigger catalsym bubble to pick on a wider choice of targets to benefit from fnp so on)

Venomthrope will also been seen alot times to counter the lack of exposure tyranids have, now getting +2 to the cover save and them attacking at I6 with the lashwhips seems really nasty.

and of course, every 1 loves flyers so haywire missiles from the hive crone will be likely to be seen outhere, mostly as a hunting couple party (2 crones at least)

those are probably the gold jewel of the tyranids out here along with the mawlock

We may also see exocrine as "plasma shooting source" mainly for the big blast plasma shoot with no get hot and their enhance bs if he stays still

Martel732 wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
To be fair, Mawlocs will also excel at killing 3 man units of Eldar jetbikes, and 10 man cultist squads. The only deck chair units they'll have trouble with are daemons.

Seer councils and Serpents don't care. And sniper Kroot are cheap enough to give away. That's what matters.

It's funny, because it drives even the competitive armies to spamming the stuff that doesn't care even more. Why take Warp Spiders who will get eaten by Mawlocs, when you can... just spam more Serpents? Why take Broadside firebases, when you can... just spam more Riptides? Why deploy any infantry on the ground, when you can... just put everything in Night Scythes except the Wraiths that have 3+ invulnerable saves?

The guys actually hurt a lot by Mawlocs are the guys who didn't need any more hurting.

 Eldarain wrote:
I've seen a lot of posts in the Tyranid threads about how it is too early to judge the new book (a fairly reasonable assessment as the book has been unreleased through most of the backlash)

A reminder that the best codexes of 6th had similar doomsaying and general internet doom and gloom reactions in the run up to their release has been noted quite frequently as well. For those on that side of the fence what do you see as being the "Diamond in the rough" as it were? This should be the easiest codex to decipher as there is no added cross codex synergies to consider from the complete lack of allies/dataslates/expanded FoC options.

So what will be making people eat their words in the coming weeks/months?

Nothing, it is the same codex as the 5th codex except Tervigons lost everything that made them cheese. So just imagine all of those Tyranid armies you have played already minus the Tervigons and Doom. Does it still seem scary?

Yay! The BA might be better than someone!

ohh, and less in it because the points got increased ^^

Martel732 wrote:
Yay! The BA might be better than someone!

Yeah GW finally released and official NPC army so that everyone else can feel better about themselves!

My mind is so depressed with this release I am ACTUALLY looking at Pyrovores like they are a viable option...if only because everything is as bad as they are now.

...Maybe not that bad...I just REALLY want to play with those beautiful models.

The diamond in the rough is Zoeys being assualt 3, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAIT now you rool 1 phsyic test and not 3 and you roll 1 deny the witch to deny ALL 9 shots.

Maybe its just rough

Bloodynecronight wrote:
The diamond in the rough is Zoeys being assualt 3, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAIT now you rool 1 phsyic test and not 3 and you roll 1 deny the witch to deny ALL 9 shots.

Maybe its just rough

Wow that's feast or famine.

Bloodynecronight wrote:
The diamond in the rough is Zoeys being assualt 3, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAIT now you rool 1 phsyic test and not 3 and you roll 1 deny the witch to deny ALL 9 shots.

Maybe its just rough

I think it's Assault X (where X equals the number of Zoanthropes in the unit)

^^^which..... is crap

Okay I hope everyone learns from this that GW does NOT engage in codex creep. They engage in total chaos. There is no rhyme or reason to anything written in the army books.

Tyrannofex with torrent? Not so great against meqs...but should be great against tau, guard, orks, and necrons.

btw old one eye gets a bit cheesy with hammer of wrath, his berserk rage only dont apply to his tail, they didn´t mentioned about his hammer wraths so you can actually double the amount of wounds you take from his D3

Flyrants and Biovores were already good last codex, and were buffed. Everything else ranges from decent to mediocre to terrible, there's nothing in the codex that I would call amazing the same way I would Wave Serpents and Heldrakes.

 Eldarain wrote:
I've seen a lot of posts in the Tyranid threads about how it is too early to judge the new book (a fairly reasonable assessment as the book has been unreleased through most of the backlash)

A reminder that the best codexes of 6th had similar doomsaying and general internet doom and gloom reactions in the run up to their release has been noted quite frequently as well. For those on that side of the fence what do you see as being the "Diamond in the rough" as it were? This should be the easiest codex to decipher as there is no added cross codex synergies to consider from the complete lack of allies/dataslates/expanded FoC options.

So what will be making people eat their words in the coming weeks/months?

I want to point out, again, that there was no doomsaying anywhere near this magnitude when Tau and Eldar dropped. Both had mostly good buzz in the run-up to the full codex leaking, and people knew units like Riptides and Wave Serpents were going to be good once the actual rules were out (they might not have known exactly how good, but they at least knew these units weren't bad). Virtually nobody was out there saying Tau or Eldar were nerfed, weak, a step down, or anything but stronger than the older dexes. There were complaints about individual units for sure (everyone knew Howling Banshees were screwed right from the start) but the consensus was that both dexes were going to be fairly strong.

This revisionist history is driving me crazy.

Promethium relay
Pyrovores
Venomthrope

If I had to pick a unit I'd say OOE would be it. WS3 isn't great and 220 points is huge but possibly 15 attacks on the charge and up to 9 every turn after at S11 Ap2 is pretty terrifying plus the 5+ FNP possibility and 4+ regeneration makes for a truely impressive creature of destruction.

That being said there's no real stand out must take units but there are lots of combos that might work between units very well

 Eldarain wrote:


So what will be making people eat their words in the coming weeks/months?

Nothing. The Exocrine will make its way into lists, but there is nothing new in the Nid dex.

Galanur wrote:
It really depends on what you consider spawming, tervigons despite being more expensive you can still spawm em, sure you will get 1 less tervigon that you use to, but now that for em to become troops you get a 30 sized horde of gaunts which is pain enough and not giving such each kills as 10 man minimum size.

Another unit that got better was the hive guard, no longer synapse depending to get ignore line of sight and ignore cover rules, now its really watever with those impaler cannons since the weapon removed that weakness so you will see them quite often.

You might also see zoanthropes for a number of reasons but mainly 1 of them few with choices to roll on the table to get catalysm and other powers on 50pt model, also the brood just test once for their powers to cast it multiple times. (bigger synapse bubble, bigger catalsym bubble to pick on a wider choice of targets to benefit from fnp so on)

Venomthrope will also been seen alot times to counter the lack of exposure tyranids have, now getting +2 to the cover save and them attacking at I6 with the lashwhips seems really nasty.

and of course, every 1 loves flyers so haywire missiles from the hive crone will be likely to be seen outhere, mostly as a hunting couple party (2 crones at least)

those are probably the gold jewel of the tyranids out here along with the mawlock

We may also see exocrine as "plasma shooting source" mainly for the big blast plasma shoot with no get hot and their enhance bs if he stays still

Re: Tervigons. With them no longer passing AG/TS on to Termagants, terms took a massive hit. Getting both of those biomorphs doubles the cost of a termagant. The "destroy what I spawned" radius also doubled.

Re: Hive Guard. They may not be AS dependent on Synapse, but their cost went UP and their BS went DOWN.

Re: Zoanthropes. They actually get to use LESS powers than the previous version. They previously were all ML1, so each could use a psychic power. Now, they are ML2 as a brood. Warp Blast is WC2, so your brood of 3 Zoanthropes can use EITHER Warp Blast (for both of their WC), OR their other power (leaving them with 1WC, which isn't enough for Warp Blast). I would call that a nerf.

Re: Venomthropes. Yes, you will probably see these. For about a turn. And "really nasty" in CC? They get 2 WS3 attacks, which are nice at Poisoned(2+), but still 2 WS3 attacks. Oooh, once per game I can pop toxic miasma at I1 (assuming the Venomthrope survived that long) for a S3 AP- hit. Wooooooo. *finger twirl*

Re: Crone. It is straight up awful. It's main weapon can't be used against other flyers. It's 4 Tentaclids are One Use Only, and with BS3 you're likely to miss with 2 of them. So that's 2 HPs you might strip off a flyer, assuming your T5 4+ armor flyer doesn't get shot to death first. Quad guns are twin linked, wound on 2s and ignore your armor save. So it has S8 vector strike, BFD. With the way flyers and swooping FMCs move, it is insanely easy to keep your flyers away from a Crone.

So your "Crown Jewels"? Looks like they're made of Cubic Zirconium.

Galanur wrote:
btw old one eye gets a bit cheesy with hammer of wrath, his berserk rage only dont apply to his tail, they didn´t mentioned about his hammer wraths so you can actually double the amount of wounds you take from his D3

Actually, it's addressed in his rule just fine. Because the HoW doesn't roll to hit, you can't succeed and get another roll out of it.

Sorry my bad

 Mulletdude wrote:

Galanur wrote:
btw old one eye gets a bit cheesy with hammer of wrath, his berserk rage only dont apply to his tail, they didn´t mentioned about his hammer wraths so you can actually double the amount of wounds you take from his D3

Actually, it's addressed in his rule just fine. Because the HoW doesn't roll to hit, you can't succeed and get another roll out of it.

HoW says it makes an additional attack that hits automatically at the model´s unmodified S with an Ap-
Living battering ram says the model with this rule makes D3 HoW instead of 1
The berserk rampage says on every sucessfull to hit roll that old one eye makes in close combat(excluding those from his thresher scythe), it may immediately make one additional attack against the same unit, these additional attacks do not confer extra attacks. the rule mention the tail can´t benefit, nothing says about HoW, and HoW despite being auto hit, its still a sucessfull hit sooo