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shogun wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Look i told you how the rule works RAW. If you dont wanna play it that way then thats fine. Just run it by any TO's on their own interpretation if you go to a competitive event.

It is not written, you just assume that you can decide to deal the mortal wounds spore mine after spore mine. I can understand that you want to play it this way but that doesn't make it right.

I'm in love with this subject, but I have a question and I promise I'm not trying to be rude or mean to anyone when I ask. Would anyone reading this play with someone trying to suggest mines can hit something 48 inches away because of this likely oversight? I've been guilty of slight raw abuse like many but I don't even know how you'd justify that making sense in practicality.

The honest reason I'm asking is not to berate anyone, but I've never experienced someone trying to stretch the rules up to a point like this. I'm curious on other peoples experiences and how they deal with it.

On my end, i tend to play it like was suggested.

I dont auto blow all the spores. I pop them one by one till there are no models within 3" since that makes the most sense.

I was only arguing the RAW of the rule previously. It's not even the first time a rule like this has popped up in the tyranid stuff. Pyrovores used to explode and hit stuff across the board as well.

There is no range limitation printed on the spores ability so thats why this is an issue.


However, due to the fact that you are in fact supposed to resolve weapons one at a time (and we only fast roll to save time), I actually play it by detonating each spore, one at a time, starting with the closest, until there are no longer any models within 3" of the spores.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Pyrovores used to explode and hit stuff across the board as well.

And what if a bunch of spore mines kill a unit of 3 pyrovores within 3 inch at the end of the charge phase? How do the ALL explode?

In such a case, you would have to use sequencing since the pyrovores explode on death (when you roll a 4+). However since pyrovores only deal 1 mortal wound at a time when they die, they wouldnt kill the 2 wound mieotic spores before the hurt spore would in turn explode anyway.


It would be a funny scene however. Like chucking dynamite sticks at claymores.

I didn't even know there was a Ripper in the Ravener kit.

Hello tactically minded Tyranid friends!

I have put together two recent battle reports of my Tyranids in 9th edition. Hopefully these will spark some ideas or conversation for you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/ixfhri/tyranids_vs_iron_hands_9th_edition_battle_report/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/isi6as/tyranids_vs_custodes_9th_edition_battle_report/


For the Hive Mind! How are you all finding ways to win right now?

I keep losing to Death Guard. The covid-19 relic plus 'social distancing' stratagem means things are decided before I can even show up to play.

Sadly we do not have the Tyranids BS immune system that laughs at Nurgle.

Also played a game with my tyrant deathstar and learned a lot. First time I played the new edition so still new to the mission rules and i underestimated the objectives and the opponent. Going to give this a try:

Battalion (kraken):

HQ: flying hive with 2x twin linked devourers
HQ: flying hive with 2x twin linked devourers
HQ: flying hive with 2x M talons, adrenal glance and toxin sacs. (Warlord)

TR: 3 rippers
TR: 3 rippers
TR: 3 rippers

EL: maleceptor
EL: 5 tyrant guard
EL: 5 tyrant guard
EL: 1 lictor
EL: 1 lictor
EL: 1 lictor

Patrol (kraken)

HQ: Malanthrope
HQ: Swarmlord

TR: 3 rippers

EL: 1 pyrovore
EL: 1 pyrovore

Tyrant guards get ignore -1 and -2 ap and warlord flying hive gets -1 to hit (kraken relic) and the 'extra move if you kill a character in close combat' warlord trait.

The maleceptor and malanthrope gives the whole bubble -1 to hit and -1 strength against ranged attacks and together with the tyrant gaurd protecting the hive tyrants it is a tough nut to crack.

I actually want to give the devourer hive tyrants another try because I like to use the +1 damage stratagem on them making them better at killing 2 wound marines and horde at the same time.
I got one talon flying hive that could kill a character and move back towards the bubble (warlord trait) and at the same time the swarmlord can do the same with a specific stratagem (move after killing a unit). Both could use the reroll to wound stratagem or fight again stratagem if needed.

The lictors and pyrovores give me options to score secondary objectives.

I want this army to sit on 3 objectives and force the opponent to come forward with the option to move very fast myself if needed.

Question: I believe it is possible to pull a reinforcement unit out of the 'outflanking' reserves and drop it next to a lictor with a specific stratagem. I believe you can use it that way, right?

Yes, strategic reserves can be pheromone trailed (but units in a specific place (like inside a tyrannocyte) cannot. The creation of strategic reserves has had the side effect of making lictors and this strategem really, really useful. I use it on small hit squads of stealers or devourergaunts.

Edit:spelling.

i like the initial concept, but that list looks all over the place. Whats the point in wings if you've dedicated all those points into 4 different defensive bubbles that they want to be sitting in? Max devourers on Flyrants? Basically means you've completely wasted all the CC stats that you are paying for. And the only one with a CC weapon and Warlord trait too, you gave the -1 to be SHOT relic, when he will be the only one who should be spending time in CC.

If you want to put a defensive wall in the middle of the table and make stuff come to you, you need more wounds. You have essentially 5 MC's and none are shooting back. Scoring is more important than ever, but this list will utterly lose an attrition war in no time even if you do manage hold the midtable for first turn or even two - which I wouldn't even say is a given. I would strongly consider losing the unnecessary upgrades and trimming a couple of things, to thicken it out with a pair of Exocrine's, or something especially since you have all that defense in place for them.

One more battle report you all can enjoy and hopefully learn from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/iztbu8/tyranids_vs_knights_and_admech_9th_edition_battle/

Very nice write up!

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
i like the initial concept, but that list looks all over the place. Whats the point in wings if you've dedicated all those points into 4 different defensive bubbles that they want to be sitting in? Max devourers on Flyrants? Basically means you've completely wasted all the CC stats that you are paying for. And the only one with a CC weapon and Warlord trait too, you gave the -1 to be SHOT relic, when he will be the only one who should be spending time in CC.

If you want to put a defensive wall in the middle of the table and make stuff come to you, you need more wounds. You have essentially 5 MC's and none are shooting back. Scoring is more important than ever, but this list will utterly lose an attrition war in no time even if you do manage hold the midtable for first turn or even two - which I wouldn't even say is a given. I would strongly consider losing the unnecessary upgrades and trimming a couple of things, to thicken it out with a pair of Exocrine's, or something especially since you have all that defense in place for them.

I was just reading the general rulebook and apparently you cannot cast psychic powers after you ' fall back'. Thats a big deal-breaker for a flying hive tyrant, so I just might drop the whole idea anyway.

I find the use of meiotic spore bombs amusing and intriguing, so would like to try this armylist:

KRAKEN BATTALION

HQ: Neurothrope (synaptic lure)
HQ: Flying hive with venom cannon, M-rending claws and adrenal glands (onslaught and catalyst) **-1 to hit relic**

TR: 3 rippers
TR: 3 rippers
TR: 5 rippers

EL: Lictor
EL: Lictor
EL: Lictor

FA: 3 meiotic spores
FA: 9 meiotic spores
FA: 9 meiotic spores

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT (KRONOS)

HQ: Neurothrope (symbio storm)

HS: 6 hive guard (ADAPT PHY: ignore -1 and -2 ap)
HS: exocrine (ADAPT PHY: 5+ inv save)
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores
HS: 3 biovores

2 options:

Option 1:
Deploy the meiotic close to the enemies frontline behind cover (outside 9 inch if possible) and if you get first turn move the first big unit (9 bombs) forward and use metabolic overdrive if needed... Second unit also moves forward and if needed I can cast onslaught on them to help them assault. Assault moves are not limited (have to move closer to the...) so the spores could assault a small unit that has been shot to pieces and use the assault move to simply move within 3 inch of another juicy unit.

The unit with 3 meiotic spores can be deployed on an objective if I really want to make sure it does not get claimed by scouts and the like.. Or I can assault a small unit and try to kill it and remove it from the objective.

If the enemy is not able to target the spore mines behind cover then even if the get first turn, the will be a great threat.

Option 2:
Facing a very fast army or an army with lots of anti-infantry indirect shooting I could put the two big units of meiotic spores in reserves and let them drop in with the lictor (stratagem). Cast synaptic lure on an enemy unit and try to get the spore mines an extra d6 for assault with the blood of baal stratagems. I need the flying hive to assault the same target of shoot down a single model with the venom cannon. Lictor can also use a stratagem for an extra +1 assault and no overwatch. This way I could lock a unit in close combat and prevent the enemy unit from overwatching the spore mines.


I might drop the flying hive and get more bodies for objective grabbing but I first got to test this... Really like the Kraken and Kronos combi but I could also go full kraken brigade and get another 4 command points....

shogun wrote:

Option 2:
Facing a very fast army or an army with lots of anti-infantry indirect shooting I could put the two big units of meiotic spores in reserves and let them drop in with the lictor (stratagem). Cast synaptic lure on an enemy unit and try to get the spore mines an extra d6 for assault with the blood of baal stratagems. I need the flying hive to assault the same target of shoot down a single model with the venom cannon. Lictor can also use a stratagem for an extra +1 assault and no overwatch. This way I could lock a unit in close combat and prevent the enemy unit from overwatching the spore mines.

Can't use pheromone trail on spore mines to drop them next to a lictor. It only works on infantry, which spore mines are not.
My personal experience is that meiotic spores are great for screening out infiltrators, like vanguard space marines. However treat them managing to blow up as a reward for getting first turn. If you go second, they aren't going to survive, barring very favourable terrain placement.

Arson Fire wrote:

shogun wrote:

Option 2:
Facing a very fast army or an army with lots of anti-infantry indirect shooting I could put the two big units of meiotic spores in reserves and let them drop in with the lictor (stratagem). Cast synaptic lure on an enemy unit and try to get the spore mines an extra d6 for assault with the blood of baal stratagems. I need the flying hive to assault the same target of shoot down a single model with the venom cannon. Lictor can also use a stratagem for an extra +1 assault and no overwatch. This way I could lock a unit in close combat and prevent the enemy unit from overwatching the spore mines.

Can't use pheromone trail on spore mines to drop them next to a lictor. It only works on infantry, which spore mines are not.
My personal experience is that meiotic spores are great for screening out infiltrators, like vanguard space marines. However treat them managing to blow up as a reward for getting first turn. If you go second, they aren't going to survive, barring very favourable terrain placement.

Ah damn, I thought it was tyranid unit... but you are right..

Huge changes in the FW compendium book.


I can finally use my Barbed Heirodules again !!!

They nerfed mieotic spores a bit by limiting the unit size to 6 instead of 9. Fair enough.

Dimacheron is in a nice spot.

Malanthrope went back up in points but his -1 to hit bubble is extended to 6" and he's better in combat.

Where's a good spot for that info? I'm lazy and don't want to dig through all the reviews.

This is my summary of FW changes:

Malantrope:
Meiotic Spores:

Sky-Slasher Swarms:

Dimachaeron:

Stone Crusher Carnifex:

Barbed Hierodule

Scythed Hierodule:

Harridan:

Hierophant:

 Tyran wrote:
This is my summary of FW changes:

Malantrope:

Spoiler:

Only 1 model per unit, and thus lost Monstrous Brood.

Grasping tail: S +1, flat 2 damage and can re-roll wound rolls. So an improvement.

Enhanced Toxic Miasma: fixed to work in Engagement Range, deals D3 mortal wounds.

Shrouding Spores: buffed to 6", but does not protect Titanic units.

Prey Adaptation: buffed to activating on 3", but nerfed to only working within 6" and now affects wound rolls instead of hit rolls.

+1 Power and +15 points.

Meiotic Spores:

Spoiler:

Max 6 models

Float Down (Spore Mine's deep strike) replaced Outriders of the Swarm.

Floating Death: on a 2-3 D3 mortal wounds, on a 4+ 3 mortal wounds (a 13% increase).

Sky-Slasher Swarms:

Spoiler:

Gained Swooping Assault (Gargoyles' deep strike).

Dimachaeron:

Spoiler:

+4 W, -2 ld

Degradation is now M/WS/BS(instead of A) and BS it is irrelevant, as no ranged weapons. A buff as A no longer degrades.

Weapons completely reworked:

Massive scything sickle-talons: S +1, Ap -3, D D3+3 and can re-roll hit rolls. A massive improvement.

Scything tail: S user, Ap -3, D 2, one (and only one) additional attack[/list]

Leaper-killer: gained a 5+ invulnerable save and can move across enemy models (even when it charges) but it lost the free vertical movement.

Gained Death Throes, standard one (on a 6 everyone in 3" suffers D3 mortal wounds.

Thorax Spine-maw: After attacks but before consolidation, select an enemy model within Engagement range. Enemy rolls a D6 and add that model's S characteristic. If the roll is equal or less than Dimachaeron S, that model's unit suffers D6 mortal wounds.

Digestion Spine: If a model is destroyed by the Thorax Spine-maw, at the end of the turn the Dimachaeron gains a 5+ fnp until the end of the game.

+1 Power and +20 points.

Stone Crusher Carnifex:

Spoiler:

Only 1 model per unit, and thus lost Monstrous Brood.

+1 Strenght.

Seems to have a typo with base one having two bio-fails that can be upgraded to wrecker claws.

It lost any other wargear option.

Bio-fails reworked to making 2 hit rolls per attack.

Wrecker claws reworked to D 3 but becoming D 5 against Vehicles and Monsters. Two wrecker claws still can re-roll to hit, even against other targets that are not Vehicles.

Caparace Chitin Rams buffed to dealing D3 mortal wounds and D6 against Vehicles and Monsters. Also got the +1 to hit rolls if it charged.

+5 points for wrecker claws upgrade.

Barbed Hierodule

Spoiler:

Now a Heavy Support.

-4 M, +1 BS, -2 S, -5 W, -1 A, -2 Ld, +1 Sv

Degradation is now M/WS/BS.

Bio-cannons are flat D 2.

Hierodule Scythint talons: S+2, Ap -3, D D3+3, reroll hit rolls of 1 (it no longer gives an additional attack for two pairs).

Lost Agile and Titanic Monster.

Death Throes on 6 but inflicts 3 mortal wounds.

Lost Titanic keyword.

-9 Power and -185 points.

Scythed Hierodule:

Spoiler:

Mostly as above, except M and Sv are unchanged. Also M degradation more forgiving, 3" per step.

Bio-acid spray: D6 more shots, Range +10", D 1.

-9 power and -175 points.

Harridan:

Spoiler:

Gained minimum Move of 20" and +15" max move, +1 S, +1 T, +4 W, -1 Ld. Less degradation steps.

Gargantuan scything talons: S +2, Ap -3, D 6, re-roll hit rolls of 1.

Dire bio-cannons: 2 more shots, Ap improved by 1, Damage is flat 3.

Frenzied Metabolism now gives +1 to wound rolls to ranged attacks.

Gained aircraft rules (Airborne, Hover, Supersonic, Hard to Hit).

Lost Sky attack.

Death Throes: On a 6, range 2D6", D6 mortal wounds.

Gained Aircraft keyword.

-3 Power and -60 points.

Hierophant:

Spoiler:

-2" M, -2 S, -16 W, -1 LD. Degradation is now M/WS/BS and has less steps.

Bio-plasma torrent: +4" Range, is Assault, +2 S, Ap improved by 1.

Dire bio-cannons and gargantuan scything talons as above.

Laswhip pods: S5, -1 D, 10 (and only 10)
additional attacks.

Frenzied Metabolism and Death Throes as Harridan above.

Gained Hypertoxic Poison Cloud: At the end of the fight phase, roll a D6 for each enemy model in Engagement Range, on a 5+ that model's unit suffers a mortal wound.

Transport is now 20 Infantry, and models with W of 2 or more take 2 spaces instead of 1.

-57 Power and -1210 points.

Thanks! It Looks like these dudes might be medium useful again. I am sure that is good news for anybody who owns one (or more )

I'm mildly optimistic that the stonefex going up in strenght means the same for the standard fex in the codex.

Wow, much better than I thought. I did get the reprinted Anphelion project a few years ago (love the story in it) but never quite managed to pull the trigger on buying a Dimy even though its one of my favorite FW models. Time may have come now it seems.

This has even made me look seriously at a scythed 'dule for my kraken nids.

If the dule's are heavy support now, does that mean they will benefit from the hive fleet rules ( for me that would be the 3d6 pick highest advance and fall back and charge.. ie does it have the <hive fleet>?) ? If so, that is definitely tempting too.

Barbed Hierodule is best points/profile ratio atm, we're probably going to see 2x/3x of them as Jormugandr or Leviathan for 1+/6+++ with T8 and 2+ to boost (and definitely a Malanthrope for -1 to hit and if you want to go bonkers another Maleceptors for -1 Strenght to all weapons that hit these bad boyz)

I am very interested in running a pair of scythe-dules as gorgon. Finally having a hard hitting, fast moving monster is a godsend. I might actually bite the bullet on a pair of these finally. With murderous size they threaten KEQ big time. Sad to waste the strength buff, but 6 s11 ap4 d4+d3 attacks is gonna mulch through most things they touch.

Wow, in the last 3 posts we've had kraken, gorgon, jormangandr and leviathan all mentioned. I've said it before and ill say it again... We have the best range of playstyle options of any army in 40k (yeah marine players... we actually have to THINK about our game plan

Wait a min... I just typed Gorgon! Really? Awesome! Can I ask what your thinking is behind this? Its so rare I hear anyone mention them (please don't take this as condescending in any way, I am genuinely interested).

Ok, all we need now is for someone to pop up with a cool idea for Hydra

I'll mention gorgon again!

I'm liking the idea of a pair of Gorgon Scythed Heirodules more and more. I've been racking my brain on how to deal with gravis marines, and now FW has dropped the answer in my lap. I'm thinking the smart choice will be to take two with dermic symbiosis for that sweet sweet 5++. On it's own, it'll be throwing down 6 attacks, hitting on 3+, rerolling 1s from the talons, then wounding gravis on 2+ rerolling 1 from gorgon. That to me sounds like a dead heavy intercessor squad, or a very dead eradicators. They are even almost cost effective at it!! I'm... I'm stunned. We got a nice thing. That is good at hurting marines IN MELEE If I really want a thing dead though, I just make sure to pop Poison Influence on their nearby tyrant/malaceptor for ap4 on all those attacks. These even threaten knights! I CAN FIGHT KNIGHTS IN MELEE AHAHAHHAHAHA

Another nice thing is losing titanic. Being able to hide these for a turn or two could help them survive turn 1.

They cannot really hide, 18 wounds remember.

Also wouldn't the Barbed be better at killing Primaris? I mean, 12 BS 3+ S8 AP-2 D 2 shoots a turn plus 4 melee attacks is IMHO way better output, with the downside of considerable increased cost.

StarHunter25 wrote:
I'll mention gorgon again!

I'm liking the idea of a pair of Gorgon Scythed Heirodules more and more. I've been racking my brain on how to deal with gravis marines, and now FW has dropped the answer in my lap. I'm thinking the smart choice will be to take two with dermic symbiosis for that sweet sweet 5++. On it's own, it'll be throwing down 6 attacks, hitting on 3+, rerolling 1s from the talons, then wounding gravis on 2+ rerolling 1 from gorgon. That to me sounds like a dead heavy intercessor squad, or a very dead eradicators. They are even almost cost effective at it!! I'm... I'm stunned. We got a nice thing. That is good at hurting marines IN MELEE If I really want a thing dead though, I just make sure to pop Poison Influence on their nearby tyrant/malaceptor for ap4 on all those attacks. These even threaten knights! I CAN FIGHT KNIGHTS IN MELEE AHAHAHHAHAHA

Another nice thing is losing titanic. Being able to hide these for a turn or two could help them survive turn 1.

That is certainly a tempting thing to try, I hadn't even considered the loss of Titanic,although number of wounds might be an issue with hiding.

However, despite my lack of playing an actual game of 9th, all my friends tell me that fast moving cc units are decently threatening on the smaller board sizes so providing you can get enough bodies in to follow up and hold cleared objectives this could well be a good approach.

I'm not all that worried about marines tbh (eradicators exempted of course) but more by the smaller, harder to target but still offensively dangerous units like harlequins and custodes. I think if you are gonna run 'dules' its gonna be at least a pair or don't bother. Still. its nice to finally be able to consider the forgeworld stuff.

9th edition has amped up the power level of the slow melee threats.
You can see it in the bladeguard veterans, the new terminators, the skhorpek destroyers and c'thans.

I was wondering where this would leave the nid monster concept. If for GW the meleedule is a 235 point beast, then I expect great things from the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyran wrote:
They cannot really hide, 18 wounds remember.

Also wouldn't the Barbed be better at killing Primaris? I mean, 12 BS 3+ S8 AP-2 D 2 shoots a turn plus 4 melee attacks is IMHO way better output, with the downside of considerable increased cost.

If the profile has 5 less wounds, then it lands perfectly at 17 and you can hide.