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Made in us
Araqiel





Florida

 Eihnlazer wrote:

The smaller table size makes the meiotic spores so good. They either kill 33% of your opponents army on first turn, or block their movement and make them waste their first turn killing them. Either way is such an advantage.


How are they killing 33% of the army first turn? They have to be deployed 12" away from enemy models, only have a 3" move and only explode when within 3" of enemy models in the charge phase.

I play:
40K: Daemons, Thousand Sons
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Gremlins,Neverborn
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains 
   
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 D6Damager wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:

The smaller table size makes the meiotic spores so good. They either kill 33% of your opponents army on first turn, or block their movement and make them waste their first turn killing them. Either way is such an advantage.


How are they killing 33% of the army first turn? They have to be deployed 12" away from enemy models, only have a 3" move and only explode when within 3" of enemy models in the charge phase.


Move+Run x2 mostly, but you need a full unit to take advantage of that
   
Made in ca
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





British Columbia

KurtAngle2 wrote:
 D6Damager wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:

The smaller table size makes the meiotic spores so good. They either kill 33% of your opponents army on first turn, or block their movement and make them waste their first turn killing them. Either way is such an advantage.


How are they killing 33% of the army first turn? They have to be deployed 12" away from enemy models, only have a 3" move and only explode when within 3" of enemy models in the charge phase.


Move+Run x2 mostly, but you need a full unit to take advantage of that
Run twice? Or doubled?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 21:04:51


 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






kraken advance gets you 7-9" of movement on average.

They actually start 9" away from deployment zone, not 12". im looking at the Outriders of the Swarm ability right now.

Your opponent cant deploy back away from the edge, but thats still playing in your favor.


And you can always metabolic overdrive one unit for a second advance move, deep into their deployment zone.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
kraken advance gets you 7-9" of movement on average.

They actually start 9" away from deployment zone, not 12". im looking at the Outriders of the Swarm ability right now.

Your opponent cant deploy back away from the edge, but thats still playing in your favor.


And you can always metabolic overdrive one unit for a second advance move, deep into their deployment zone.


Yes, it's in the FAQ.

But I think you are really overselling this. It is not hard to remove these myotic spore bombs. And once they're removed you only got the hive guard that actually do a decent amount of damage. Mortal wound Spore bombs can really take a enemy player out of his comfort-zone but if the play it smart than the would know it actually comes with great benefits. Spore bombs hurt the closest target and you simply need to sacrifice a small unit or cheap transport to take all the wounds. This goes against most players nature because the don't want to do this. But assaulting spore bombs actually gives the enemy more movement as long as the make sure the closest unit can take all the wounds.

And anything with fly or aircraft gives you a hard time..
   
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British Columbia

shogun wrote:


And anything with fly or aircraft gives you a hard time..

Why?
   
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 Eldarain wrote:
shogun wrote:


And anything with fly or aircraft gives you a hard time..

Why?


Because the got the speed and the ability to ignore the biovore spore mines and smoke out the hive guard. Myotic spore bombs might force the opponent to deploy defensively but fast flying units can really take back that advantage. And a smart player doesn't need to deploy defensively, the just make sure that the bombs can only target the closest model/unit.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Not saying that i play it this way, but i'll mention on the Mieotic spores explosion ability the mortal wounds travel to the closest unit, not just the unit they exploded near.

So techniqually, even if they all blow up on a single model, they still deal their damage, one by one, to the nearest unit, even if its 24" away.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Not saying that i play it this way, but i'll mention on the Mieotic spores explosion ability the mortal wounds travel to the closest unit, not just the unit they exploded near.

So techniqually, even if they all blow up on a single model, they still deal their damage, one by one, to the nearest unit, even if its 24" away.


The blow up individually and wound the closest model/unit and you can indeed put the mortal wound wherever you want (in that unit). But if you got 9 myotic spore bombs and the enemy assault's them with 2 scout models and also with a rhino at the flank, as long as the scouts are the closest unit (base to base) and the rhino is not (within 1 inch but not base to base) then the 2 scout models get all the blasts in their face and the rhino is unscratched, but get's an extra assault move.
   
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No thats not correct. You roll each spore one by one and they deal damage. If the first spore kills the scouts, then the second hits the next closest thing (which would be the rhino) and so on until you have resolved all 9 spores. That's RAW how the rule works.

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Eihn is right, that’s how it works.
   
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 Eihnlazer wrote:
No thats not correct. You roll each spore one by one and they deal damage. If the first spore kills the scouts, then the second hits the next closest thing (which would be the rhino) and so on until you have resolved all 9 spores. That's RAW how the rule works.


Indeed, I guess because every single spore bomb explodes and not the whole unit at the end of the assault phase. It is always weird with these kind of ' at the end of the phase' rules in combination with single model effects. If it is the enemies turn could he decide which spore bomb explodes first? Because all these effects happen at the same time (enemy unit within 3 inch at the end of the assault phase) or are the all separate effects/models? And if the enemy model dies because of one spore bomb the rest of the bombs doesn't have an enemy unit within 3 inch at the end of the phase?
   
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It is strange, but the rule is parsed out pretty well.

You check range at the end of the charge phase. Any spores within 3" of a model explode, but you must roll them one by one.


If 2 scouts run up, and get within 3" of 6 spores, all the spores explode. Roll for what they do, one by one. on a 1 they do nothing, on a 2-5 they do D3 mortal wounds to the closest enemy, on a 6 they do D6 mortals to the closest enemy.

If the first spore rolls a 3, the scouts take D3 mortal wounds. Then the second spore rolls a 1 and does nothing, then the third rolls a 6 and does D6 mortals to the next closest enemy and so on, until all 6 have resolved.

The models that take the mortal wounds do not have to be within 3", just the next closest.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
It is strange, but the rule is parsed out pretty well.

You check range at the end of the charge phase. Any spores within 3" of a model explode, but you must roll them one by one.


Where does it say that? You are not shooting with a weapon so you could just as well argue that the all explode at the same time and you deal the mortal wounds all at once against the closest enemy model from each spore bomb. End of the assault phase doesn't really have a ' to wound' phase. You could just as well argue that if this happens in the enemies turn, he can decide which model explodes/deals damage first.

Personally I don't really care because it is not a big deal, and you need to shoot the buggers before the reach you anyway...
   
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Germany

A spore mine can deal MW to a unit which is 48" away, if thats the closest enemy unit when it explodes. There is no range limit in the floating death rule.
   
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 p5freak wrote:
A spore mine can deal MW to a unit which is 48" away, if thats the closest enemy unit when it explodes. There is no range limit in the floating death rule.


If you really are going down that "RAW-road" then why are you allowed to deal damage separate for each bomb? Does the ' end of the assault phase' got a model after model to wound phase I'am not aware about? Maybe I'am wrong and I'am missing something, but then please show me the rules..
   
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Germany

shogun wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A spore mine can deal MW to a unit which is 48" away, if thats the closest enemy unit when it explodes. There is no range limit in the floating death rule.


If you really are going down that "RAW-road" then why are you allowed to deal damage separate for each bomb? Does the ' end of the assault phase' got a model after model to wound phase I'am not aware about? Maybe I'am wrong and I'am missing something, but then please show me the rules..


There is no such thing as assault phase. Read the MW rule.

Unlike damage inflicted by normal attacks, excess damage from mortal wounds is not lost.


When a unit is wiped out, and there are still MW left, they hit the nearest enemy unit, even if that is 48" away.
   
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This should be moved to the Rules Discussion, but here's my take:

Tyranid Codex:
Floating Death: A Spore Mine explodes if it is within 3" of any enemy units at the end of any Charge phase. Each time a Spore Mine explodes, roll a D6: on a 1 it fails to inflict any harm, on a 2-5 it inflicts 1 mortal wound on the nearest enemy unit, and on a 6 it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on that unit. The Spore Mine is then destroyed.


Core Rules:
SEQUENCING: While playing Warhammer 40,000, you'll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time - e.g. 'at the start of the battle round' or 'at the end of the Fight phase'. When this happens during the battle, the player whose turn it is chooses the order.


Hmmmm... Shogun may have a point, but for the wrong reason. It very much looks like these happen one at a time, like in the 2 Scouts within range of 3 Mines thing. If you resolve one at a time, and the first 2 Mines exploding kills the Scouts, then there is no longer a model within 3" of a Spore Mine by the time the last one in sequence comes up. Right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 13:50:45


 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
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Germany

Sequencing only comes into play when two units of spore mine explode. Then its two or more rules that are resolved at the same time. If its one unit, then its only one rule to resolve.
   
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 p5freak wrote:
Sequencing only comes into play when two units of spore mine explode. Then its two or more rules that are resolved at the same time. If its one unit, then its only one rule to resolve.

I hate to say it, but I copied the rules verbatim. No rules I am aware of make special exception to having rules that affect units or rules that affect models happening in different timings. The rule for the explosion is on a Spore Mine by Spore Mine basis, and says nothing at all about the unit that Spore Mine is in.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 13:51:06


 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
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The best way to imagine it for the FW mines is that they are each a separate 2wound psycher that can cast smite, but once they cast it they die. And in order to cast it, they must be within 3" of an enemy at the end of the charge phase.

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Yarium wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Sequencing only comes into play when two units of spore mine explode. Then its two or more rules that are resolved at the same time. If its one unit, then its only one rule to resolve.

I hate to say it, but I copied the rules verbatim. No rules I am aware of make special exception to having rules that affect units or rules that affect models happening in different timings. The rule for the explosion is on a Spore Mine by Spore Mine basis, and says nothing at all about the unit that Spore Mine is in.


The fact that every single spore mine explodes at the end of the charge phase doesn't automatically means that you get to allocate these mortal wounds spore mine after spore mine. You can also read it that every single spore mine only explodes if there is an enemy unit within 3 inch but doesn't say anything about allocating mortal wounds and how you can choose to do so, only that you need to do this against the closest unit for each spore mine. It is all happening at the end of the charge phase.

Eihnlazer wrote:The best way to imagine it for the FW mines is that they are each a separate 2wound psycher that can cast smite, but once they cast it they die. And in order to cast it, they must be within 3" of an enemy at the end of the charge phase.


Like I wrote above, it is not the same because it is not a psychic power that gets cast by different units. It is one unit with single models dealing mortal wounds and you simply decide that you can you choose to let them explode one by one regarding dealing mortal wounds. If you use this argument then you are talking about a separate single model ' end of the phase' effect and then the enemy can choose which bomb explodes first if it is his turn. If the next bomb doesn't have an enemy model within 3 inch anymore, after the first one exploded, then it stops there.


For some reason most of you argue that there is indeed a single moment at the end of the charge phase in which every spore mine that is within 3 inch of an enemy unit get's triggered, but after that you get to decide which spore mine ' explodes' first. I don't think you can have it both ways.

   
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Look i told you how the rule works RAW. If you dont wanna play it that way then thats fine. Just run it by any TO's on their own interpretation if you go to a competitive event.



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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Look i told you how the rule works RAW. If you dont wanna play it that way then thats fine. Just run it by any TO's on their own interpretation if you go to a competitive event.


It is not written, you just assume that you can decide to deal the mortal wounds spore mine after spore mine. I can understand that you want to play it this way but that doesn't make it right.
   
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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Look i told you how the rule works RAW. If you dont wanna play it that way then thats fine. Just run it by any TO's on their own interpretation if you go to a competitive event.


You told us your INTERPRETATION of how the rule works RAW. It is not entirely clear.

Personally, I feel that if the mines explode all at once then the MWs will be dealt all at once. If the MWs are dealt one mine at a time it is because the explosion is triggered one at a time. I doubt it is RAW, and it certainly is not RAI that one could mix-and-match interpretations to get Schrodinger's spore mines!

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
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Timing for YMDC I think
   
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Upstate, New York

Ripper question:

Where are they lurking? When putting together my SC box, I was surprised to find some in with the genestealers. I know the are also on the termagaunt/weapon sprues.

Anywhere else?

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 Nevelon wrote:
Ripper question:

Where are they lurking? When putting together my SC box, I was surprised to find some in with the genestealers. I know the are also on the termagaunt/weapon sprues.

Anywhere else?


Spinemaw Rippers are in the Genestealer kit, regular Rippers are in the Termagant kit, Hornagaunt kit(?) and Ravener kit. The old Warrior kit used to have one but it was removed when they were resculpted.

Barring that Forge World also has some Rippers, though being a pile they aren’t as easy to hide and they are pretty pricey (nice sculpts though).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 00:37:17


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Auckland, NZ

 Nevelon wrote:
Ripper question:

Where are they lurking? When putting together my SC box, I was surprised to find some in with the genestealers. I know the are also on the termagaunt/weapon sprues.

Anywhere else?

Here's a visual guide to where they're hiding that I put together a while back.
Some of these sprues are no longer in production. The best source is the termagant kit, as each box of 12 termagants comes with 7 ripper models, which is enough for 2 bases if you stick to 3 models per base.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 01:14:46


 
   
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Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

That pic is incredibly helpful. (as are the other responses)

So for in production plastics:
7 per termagaunt box (3 from the gaunt spures, 4 from the weapon sprues)
2 per genestealer box (one per sprue, 2 in a box)
1 from the ravener kit

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 01:40:14


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