I have a wonder

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**AnomanderRake**

Does anyone else ever wonder how the Imperial Guard handles the cliche movie scene where a soldier under interrogation responds to any questions with name, rank, and serial number when best-case we're talking about sixteen or seventeen-digit serial numbers? It seems like it would rapidly stop being dramatic and start being funny. (Estimates based on twenty-five to thirty million Guardsmen average raised from about ten percent of theoretically habitable worlds in the galaxy and assuming they do recycle numbers, since if they didn't the number would be way further out of control)

**calamarialldayerrday**

I thought Guardsmen numbered in trillions.

**TheCustomLime**

ID numbers are most likely issued on a regiment basis.

And your estimate is off unless each world in the Imperium only has 250 people on average. Actually, that would explain a lot about the figures GW gives us.

**jhe90**

Given 99.9% die in guard at some point. Recycling is safe.

I imagine krieg 5847378378383884

**AnomanderRake**

TheCustomLime wrote:
ID numbers are most likely issued on a regiment basis.

And your estimate is off unless each world in the Imperium only has 250 people on average. Actually, that would explain a lot about the figures GW gives us.

Estimate based on forty billion theoretically habitable worlds in the galaxy known to modern astronomers, ten percent of which are of the sort that raise substantial Guard regiments (discounting underpopulated worlds, forge worlds, agri-worlds with a tithe in food rather than manpower, non-Imperial worlds, worlds eaten by Tyranids or the Eye of Terror, et cetera), each planet raising on average a force about the size of all active-duty military personnel on Earth today, which comes out to 1x10^17. This doesn't include PDF garrison troops and other local militias, mind.

**Ashiraya**

The Imperium is said to include a million worlds.

**TheCustomLime**

There are about 1 million worlds in the Imperium. You said that you are basing your question of the assumption that there are 25 million guardsmen raised from this pool.

Unless you meant raised from each which is better but still low for the "We have more manpower than we know what to do with" Imperium.

**Grey Templar**

If they have a serial number it is likely based on a pattern.

Something like the first 3 numbers represent their world and regiment, then a platoon number, then a squad number, and finally member number. Letters could also be mixed up in it too.

You might end up with duplications, but the probability of a duplicated serial number causing any issues would be very small.

**Psienesis**

On Krieg, their serial numbers are probably also their names, and since you can have two (or more) people named John, Matt, Mary, Lisa, whatever... it's probably not that big a deal.

**Melissia**

AnomanderRake wrote:
Does anyone else ever wonder how the Imperial Guard handles the cliche movie scene where a soldier under interrogation responds to any questions with name, rank, and serial number

Yes.

"Better dead than caught alive."

**jhe90**

Dark eldar don't,t ask for names

Just for the fun of touture and pain.

**Flinty**

Surely divulging their service number and ID info is a gross dereliction of duty by providing secure information to the enemy. People have been executed for less!

**Smokeydubbs**

Melissia wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:
Does anyone else ever wonder how the Imperial Guard handles the cliche movie scene where a soldier under interrogation responds to any questions with name, rank, and serial number
Yes.

"Better dead than caught alive."

This. If they don't kill themselves, someone else will. I'm sure many of the last standing guardsmen in fights are Commissars. They will not go down alive.

**TheCustomLime**

I'd imagine their ID numbers goes by the last three digits of their regiment, company number, platoon number, squad number and squad position.

Actually, there are probably two numbers associated with a Guardsman. There is the Regiment level number that is used for quartermasters to mark their gear and Munitorum level numbers that are a bit longer and includes a shortened version of the planet name and the full regiment number.

So, Guardsman Klink of the 39030 regiment, 10th Company, 3rd Platoon, 5th squad and 2nd infantryman would be 03010352. 8 numbers isn't too unreasonable to remember. Say he was Cadian he would be CAD3903010352 on the Departmento records.

**Peregrine**

AnomanderRake wrote:
Does anyone else ever wonder how the Imperial Guard handles the cliche movie scene where a soldier under interrogation responds to any questions with name, rank, and serial number when best-case we're talking about sixteen or seventeen-digit serial numbers?

By torturing them until they give up useful information. And then executing them.

**Selym**

calamarialldayerrday wrote:
I thought Guardsmen numbered in trillions.

I can't remember where, but someone worked out that the IG by reasonable estimations number over 4 quadrillion. Because overpopulation.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheCustomLime wrote:

So, Guardsman Klink of the 39030 regiment, 10th Company, 3rd Platoon, 5th squad and 2nd infantryman would be 03010352. 8 numbers isn't too unreasonable to remember. Say he was Cadian he would be CAD3903010352 on the Departmento records.

Considering I memorize over 10 digits for my passwords, and that some people memorize up to 50 digits of Pi, any number below 20 is reasonable, with repetition.

**rabidguineapig**

Flinty wrote:
Surely divulging their service number and ID info is a gross dereliction of duty by providing secure information to the enemy. People have been executed for less!

I can just picture a Guardsman being tortured, and when he finally cracks and starts spilling info...

Spoiler:

**Deadshot**

I don't think they would bother with that. Either the guardsman would say "Feth you, heretic!" If it were a traitor Guardsmen/Space Marine, or "Feth you Xenos Scum" if it were Eldar or Tau.

If it were Orks or Necrons or Nids there would be no interrogation.

Either that or they give up the information and beg for their miserable heretic lives.

**varl**

I would think that they'd branch out into alphanumeric ids rather than strictly numerics. your id might look like an md5 checksum (which would still make for a comical scene per the OP), but it gives you a lot more assignable values to play with

**Selym**

Deadshot wrote:
I don't think they would bother with that. Either the guardsman would say "Feth you, heretic!" If it were a traitor Guardsmen/Space Marine, or "Feth you Xenos Scum" if it were Eldar or Tau.

If it were Orks or Necrons or Nids there would be no interrogation.

Either that or they give up the information and beg for their miserable heretic lives.

Some orks are smart enough to interrogate. Though they are rare. And Necrons are now rather likely to for more info.

Both of these races are known to speak with humans on occasion.

**clively**

A guardsman's life on the battelfield is measured in seconds. It's highly likely that many are killed so soon after joining that the central bean counters never even know of them, much less take a moment to give them the next available number.

So, no, there's unlikely to be a serial number on a galactic scale identifying Fred.

Now, within a given regiment a guardsman *might* have an ID number. Of course, it's probably printed on the lasgun he was issued. Right under the blood smear from the previous owner.

All of that aside, what makes you think that a guardsman will have any information at all worth the bother of interrogating them?
=============================

"What is your general's plan?"
"Uh, you're kidding right?"
**scream**

"Please answer the question."
"I don't know!"
**scream**

"I can do this all day, answer the question."
"Listen, I'm not entirely sure how I even got here. I was standing in line for rations in the Hive and *bam* next thing I know the door closes behind me. A few days later they put a gun in my hand and told me to run 'that way'."
**scream**

"Again, what is the plan?"
"Dude, I. Don't. Know... Can you call my mom? I have to let her know when I'll be late."
**scream**

"What is the plan?"
"Okay, okay. The General said that we should point our guns in your direction and keep pulling the trigger until it didn't work anymore. Then we were supposed to run at you. I didn't understand what we were supposed to do after that, he was mumbling."
**scream**

"That's not a plan."
"Well, it's the only one we have and the commissar told me it usually works."
....

"You might have a point."

**squidhills**

Flinty wrote:
Surely divulging their service number and ID info is a gross dereliction of duty by providing secure information to the enemy. People have been executed for less!

Doesn't the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer say this exactly?

**ansacs**

Uh, I don't think that is how they interrogate people in 40K for the most part.

If you want the information there are a myriad of devices, psykers, brain parasites, and bizarrities that can just get the info out without actual questioning.

Some of the factions also want the pain or consider torture a game. I doubt they care what your name, rank, and number is though.

Also from the Krieg stories I believe their ID is something like Krieg Trooper #### Regiment #### etc. I also would doubt that Catachans, Attilan Rough Riders, Ogryn, etc. know or even care what their number is. Also the AM doesn't even keep track of the exact composition of regiments. A regiment is raised to reflect a certain battle strength and so regiments range from 1,000 to 100,000 troops so I doubt that there is a numbering system tracking individual troops at the IoM level.

**TheCustomLime**

clively wrote:
A guardsman's life on the battelfield is measured in seconds. It's highly likely that many are killed so soon after joining that the central bean counters never even know of them, much less take a moment to give them the next available number.

So, no, there's unlikely to be a serial number on a galactic scale identifying Fred.

Now, within a given regiment a guardsman *might* have an ID number. Of course, it's probably printed on the lasgun he was issued. Right under the blood smear from the previous owner.

All of that aside, what makes you think that a guardsman will have any information at all worth the bother of interrogating them?
=============================

"What is your general's plan?"
"Uh, you're kidding right?"
**scream**

"Please answer the question."
"I don't know!"
**scream**

"I can do this all day, answer the question."
"Listen, I'm not entirely sure how I even got here. I was standing in line for rations in the Hive and *bam* next thing I know the door closes behind me. A few days later they put a gun in my hand and told me to run 'that way'."
**scream**

"Again, what is the plan?"
"Dude, I. Don't. Know... Can you call my mom? I have to let her know when I'll be late."
**scream**

"What is the plan?"
"Okay, okay. The General said that we should point our guns in your direction and keep pulling the trigger until it didn't work anymore. Then we were supposed to run at you. I didn't understand what we were supposed to do after that, he was mumbling."
**scream**

"That's not a plan."
"Well, it's the only one we have and the commissar told me it usually works."
....

"You might have a point."

Actually, that is a common misconception. The expected lifespan of a Guardsman during a campaign is around a couple of weeks IIRC. Still not very good but not that bad.

**Selym**

TheCustomLime wrote:
clively wrote:
A guardsman's life on the battelfield is measured in seconds. It's highly likely that many are killed so soon after joining that the central bean counters never even know of them, much less take a moment to give them the next available number.

So, no, there's unlikely to be a serial number on a galactic scale identifying Fred.

Now, within a given regiment a guardsman *might* have an ID number. Of course, it's probably printed on the lasgun he was issued. Right under the blood smear from the previous owner.

All of that aside, what makes you think that a guardsman will have any information at all worth the bother of interrogating them?
=============================

"What is your general's plan?"
"Uh, you're kidding right?"
**scream**

"Please answer the question."
"I don't know!"
**scream**

"I can do this all day, answer the question."
"Listen, I'm not entirely sure how I even got here. I was standing in line for rations in the Hive and *bam* next thing I know the door closes behind me. A few days later they put a gun in my hand and told me to run 'that way'."
**scream**

"Again, what is the plan?"
"Dude, I. Don't. Know... Can you call my mom? I have to let her know when I'll be late."
**scream**

"What is the plan?"
"Okay, okay. The General said that we should point our guns in your direction and keep pulling the trigger until it didn't work anymore. Then we were supposed to run at you. I didn't understand what we were supposed to do after that, he was mumbling."
**scream**

"That's not a plan."
"Well, it's the only one we have and the commissar told me it usually works."
....

"You might have a point."

Actually, that is a common misconception. The expected lifespan of a Guardsman during a campaign is around a couple of weeks IIRC. Still not very good but not that bad.

It's the average life expectancy of a conscript in a full-blown battle that gets numbered in seconds. Because D-weapons.

But yeah, a guardsman does not just run at bullets for no reason. He'll be trained to survive and kill more than he's worth, they wouldn't receive any training if they were expected to die instantly, as it would be a waste of time.