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Yeqah but you are in the minority here as alot of people think its overpowered. I agree that they are not If you are a good player you can beet them.

I always heard that Iron warriors were overpowered. At the tournies I have played at the guy who won with his Iron warriors I played earlier and got a draw against him. I always heard they were so overpowered that that used to meen even before I played them I had decided I was going to lose. When I got that out of my head I got a draw agaisnt a really good player. Not to mention lots of wins against rubbish IW players.

All I have to do now is get over my fear of zilla Nids

"Most of the rest of those only have one or two items/units/equipment that even make it argueable that they are overpowered."

Well that is what I was trying to say. If the DC is the only broken unit that BA have and it goes against power gaming tactica to field terminators with this army then really how hard is it to beat one unit?

- Greenie

Its not that hard if you know how to play well. I can beat them as I have played against my brother DC since 3rd edition, Hell Ba were tougher then with rhino rush as you also had assualt squads being cheaper to put in Rhino's than with jump packs and he had the las/plas razorbacks to.

People who complain have just not figured out how to beat them or worse have listened to other people viewpoints on "balance" "chease" "overpowered" and go into the game thinking "Oh no DC, I am going to lose" then they play like crap thinking that its a forgone conclusion they will lose.

IW have the most firepower in the game.  This will always make them a topic when discussing what is overpowered. (who remembers the hype around Tau when they first came out in 3rd?  Course, unlike Tau, IW are not pushovers) 

I find it difficult to classify them as overpowered simply because they do nothing aburd or uncounterable in nature.  (unlike say like dropping 30 wyches in your lines, with no possible chance of being shot first)  Additionally, most of the other firepower based lists (like SAFH marines) still compete well with IW because of other advantages. (In this case, model count) The CC lists do alright as well, provided the board has a decent amount of terrain. 

Actually, if you notice the recent lists on dakka, you can tell IW have moved to the back of peoples minds. (6 months ago, dakka was harping on how powerful pods/mech tau/IW were, now its zilla nids/mech eldar) The groundpounder Eldar lists are a great example of this.  People are taking wraithlords over warwalkers, and mixed dire avengers/guardians instead of pure guardians and still expect to outshoot firepower armies. 

That being said, IW are easily the most powerful chaos list.  The list has a solid win percentage, and will easily crush any list not prepared for them.  This deserves to make them a item of continued debate about their power level.  (and really any balance discussions should involve lists that carry the most vehicles/firepower/CC ability.)

The top BA army at UKGT was 20th. You aren't seeing every cheese monkey player taking BA to the GT because they are not as overpowering as the top lists e.i Godzilla, IW, Demon Bomb and Mech Eldar.

Take all comer Marines generally suck compared to the above lists, BA are only slightly better. BA being overpowering is not being proven out by their results at major competitions.

Are Godzilla 'Nids really considered 'over-powered'? I thought they were the only viable way to field 'Nids with the new 'Dex.

BYE

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 03/18/2007 10:49 PM

Are Godzilla 'Nids really considered 'over-powered'? I thought they were the only viable way to field 'Nids with the new 'Dex.

BYE

No, what I've seen work well is warriors and gaunts flooding the table as well....

Some people say Zilla Nidz are overpowered. I have not played against them enough to comment on them from experience.

- Greenie

Posted By Green Bloater on 03/19/2007 7:16 AM
Some people say Zilla Nidz are overpowered. I have not played against them enough to comment on them from experience.

- Greenie

Stop by Sci-Fi sometimes, we now have two Godzilla Nids players (one uses the Choir and a shooty Tyrant, the other perfers the straight 6 Carnifexs and a CC Tyrant).

We had a Godzilla Nid team in our recent team tournament, and they almost walked away with full Battle Points through-out the whole tournament.Even then, they where still only 4 points away from the overall, and won best tactitian (most battle points). My team won the Over-all, but we gots 3 wins, but not full battle points, and essentially we where sure that they would walk away with the overall dispite the few points down they where in the last round. Going back over the numbers, they where only 4 points shy of the overall (factoring soft scores, etc.)

Needless to say, hands down the Godzilla Nids is the most competitve army availible. I have yet to see it loose (though I have drawn against them twice with a pretty competitve Chaos Army).

Rumors on the upcoming changes.

Blood Angels death company won't have power weapons or the sort aymore..
instead, they get rending....

And the tac squads will be split similar to the combat squads of DA.

Also Furious charge will be gone...now anyone with in 12" of the High Priest gets FC...

Rhinos come with overcharged engines...

Those sound good to me!

- Greenie

Carmachu, What is your source?

I don't have any problems with any of those changes, but I will miss furious charge. What's the point of over charged engines if we don't have FC anymore?

Just have to put them near the priest.

Interesting changes. I think I like em so far.

Already much better than anything DA got IMO.

- Greenie

I think its a little early to feel superior to the DA. The WD list could end up anywhere on the power scale and I'm sure that rending DC will cause some whining.

Posted By Crimson Devil on 03/19/2007 10:05 AM
What's the point of over charged engines if we don't have FC anymore?

Well, since you couldn't get assault the same turn you get out, FC is moot there.  As for the benefits:  Greater ability to grab an objective at the 11th hour, or zip between points of cover. 

What I hope is they get rid of the brutally slowed rule of the rhino blowing up on snake eyes.  I don't mind the chance of breaking down, but blowing up?  Please.  The chapter has techmarines after all.

No pw/pf in the DC keep the veterans alive so I like that.  I also like giving the SHP more flavor.

Any idea of when this will hit the US shelves?

If you block line of sightwith a rhino like you would with a drop pod it works okay. I was thinking more about the need to appproach the enemy at all. If we lose FC why not stand back and shoot?

Whats the source??

A lot of BA do play stand and shoot armies... lots of min/max squads with naked veteran sergeants... you know where I am going.

- Greenie

I guess I play differently.

Me too.

- Greenie

I hope they don't take away Furious Charge from everybody and leave the running ahead penalty of Black Rage. That doesn't seem fair. It never seemed totally balanced that everyone always had free Furious Charge in exchange for lurching ahead in one out of six rounds. But to take away the benefit and leave the penalty isn't fair either. Not that charging ahead is a pure penalty, there are many times where it's a good thing, but it's chaotic and can easily toss a monkeywrench into your plans.

Sure is. That is why 'zerks suck.

Which always got me- compare BAs to Khorne WEs. 'Zerkers are well nigh useless (charge that vehicle RARRR!) and more expensive than DC. They actually have to pay for Vet Skills.

I really don't get why they don't just move DC to an Elite choice or retinue. Pick how many guys go emo. Then pay for them. No random rolling stupidity.(Roughly) Balance the unit cost with their usefulness and BLAM! problem solved. And give assault armies assault ramp rhinos. That way they can have expensive coffins to shoot forwad in :-)

BR is a real mixed bag. It's great for your assaulters and scouts; basically anyone who wants to get into HTH. Although with no Furious Charge, then assaulting will be less effective than before. It's still better than the Khorne Bezerkers as the BA must move toward the enemy, but not the closest one.  They just have to be closer to the enemy than they were at the start of the turn.

However for shooting it's miserable as your support fire goes crazy, and your vehicles lurch forward into difficult terrain sometimes immobilizing themselves.

Taking FC away opens up another question: will BA be able to buy other skills for units that could take them in the codex? Tank Hunters? Infiltrate? Etc... Could they double up if those units got close to the SHP? Interesting...

I hope that DC is still randomly determined with a cap limit depending on how many points you are playing. It fits the fluff well but they could change that.

- Greenie

The question of overpowering isnt the skills they BAs get, its the FREE POINTS in every list they get. In an 1850 point BA list currently, you get around 300 points of free skills.

50 Marines with FC would cost 150 points for anyone else. Noone can even argue this at all.

Then there is the DC, of course they arent all FREE marines, but the ones you get have the Feel No Pain rule, and roughly half of them will be free.

Consider the free jump packs as well, and you have a ton of free points in the BA army list.


I dont think they are overpowered, but they should pay for their skills. When that happens, BA players will be saddened, and the rest of us will figure they got whats been coming to them for a while now.


Clay

Were you responding to my post? If so you missed the point. I don't mind paying for the skills, I want to make sure I can take the full range of skills that they couldn't before- thank hunter, counter charge, et.

Posted By jmurph on 03/19/2007 4:10 PM
Sure is. That is why 'zerks suck.

word.

Posted By Maximillion1 on 03/08/2007 1:08 PM
Man do I hope they nerf Death Company!!!!!!!

The Death Company is a darling of GW.  Nerfing the Death Company would be a genuine surprise.  Besides, the BA players would riot.

<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="4" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="afpostbody" colspan="2"> Of course, they whined like little girls when I put the whoop down on them using Chapter approved Sisters lists and DE, but thats another story....</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="afpostattach" colspan="2"> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Talk about a backhanded compliment... ")