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Besides, if Guardsmen were somehow made to be worth 7 points, that feels about right to me as they are portrayed in the fluff. They're may be trillions upon trillions of guardsmen, but the galaxy is too big a place for them to wasted as Orks or Tyranids do, and a quick look through the Uplifting Primer's medical and equipment section, and the Munitorum Manual makes it clear guardsmen are a lot less expendable than they are made out to be. They are well trained, well equipped and well armed, and they would, for the most part, beat the snot out of any modern army. Their fatigues are as tough as kevlar vests for crying out loud! I stand by my opinion that the individual infantrymen of the Guard need a boost in something.

A good start would be getting rid of thier flashlights/lasguns and going with assault rifles. Never made sense to me that they would field weak lasguns over cheap ammo throwing rifles down the field. If you invade a planet with no electricity how are you supposed to recharge your battery packs?

Lemartes wrote:A good start would be getting rid of thier flashlights/lasguns and going with assault rifles. Never made sense to me that they would field weak lasguns over cheap ammo throwing rifles down the field. If you invade a planet with no electricity how are you supposed to recharge your battery packs?

Actually, according to the fluff, there's a variety of ways you can recharge your lasgun clip, not least of which is using a solar recharger or tossing it in an open fire (although this method, while one of the faster methods, is notorious for reducing the number of times you can recharge the clip and the total amount you can recharge). And for better or for worse, assault rifles - or autoguns in the 40k 'verse - have the same profile as lasguns, so you can change out flashlights for autoguns all you want. All you'll get is a different looking gun.

Lemartes wrote:A good start would be getting rid of thier flashlights/lasguns and going with assault rifles.

Because it's easier to make gunpowder and cast bullets?

Regardless, any assault rifles (Stubbers / Autogus) that the IG deemed suitable for regular use would end up having the following stats: R24" S3 AP- Rapid Fire.

I think that the strength should at least be 4, strength 3 is quite pathetic.

Guardsmen are pathetic, so it fits.

They just need to be priced correctly to represent their patheticness.

BYE

So high that no one dare buy them?

Well it is important to say Guardsmen are varying degrees of pathetic. I think the shear quantity of armies superior in physical prowess to an average humans some how make people forget that the average guardsman is armed and equipped comparably to a modern soldier. That it isn't as much about them being pathetic as it is that everything else is just that much better than a human.

IG are a smidgen overpriced so I'm not going to be surprised if they get some small additional base line rule. When I heard the rumors of some the new IG vehicles I really doubted it, but with all the new toys for SM I'm starting to believe it.

IGkid wrote:I think that the strength should at least be 4, strength 3 is quite pathetic.

Strength 4 is what you get when a bolter round explodes inside you, reducing your torso to a fine mist. Or hundreds of monomolecular discs shred you beyond recognition in a fraction of a second. The weapon described as much like a modern heavy machine gtun is S4 Ap6. The weapon described as an assault rifle analogue has the stats 24" rapid fire S3 Ap-, and in context that is exactly what it should be.

Autoguns, and lasguns have identical profiles in Necromunda and 2nd ed. 40k. The only difference is that lasguns are actually more reliable as reflected in their ammo roll in Necromunda.

They did have different profiles.

Lasguns were (ironically) better at punching through armour.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:They did have different profiles.

Lasguns were (ironically) better at punching through armour.

BYE

Really? I didn't recall lasguns as having an armor save modifier. In any case, the point remains. In 40k land GW has consistently envisioned slug-thrower small arms as equal or worse to similar laser weaponry.

IGkid wrote:I think that the strength should at least be 4, strength 3 is quite pathetic.

I could see (and recommend) S4 Hellguns as standard kit for Stormtroopers.

Lasguns are the AK 47's of the 40k verse, Gav said it himself and Jes designed a lasgun variant that looks an awful lot like an AK. I mean, just like the AK you can toss it, dip it in a swamp, use it like a club, run over it with a truck, give it very low maintenance and it will still work. Plus power cells are lighter to carry and contain more shots, depending on the actual model of lasgun.

40k still has autoguns, but they are high-calibre caseless rifles with insane blowback on full auto. GW has a model of the autogun that looks like the M4 with a "grenade launcher" under the barrel, but in reality that thing is a heavy counter weight to hold the gun down a little when you fire it. (source: IA 5)

Now the storm bolters of Space Hulk, just like the first series of M16 rifles, jammed a lot for no real reason and made you want an enemy weapon instead or just make do with your power fist instead.

Fluff-nutting aside, part of me hopes for really good new stuff rule wise, but on the other hand I feel that we don't need a crapton of new rules and crap like the marines. I'd rather see the really old models replaced by new ones (priests and Rough Riders), that promised Valkyrie and fingers crossed, a new plastic regiment.

Look at =][= rules. Only in a system as detailed as that can you see the difference. Another thing I forgot to mention was that the codex is going to come out next year, probably near the beginning.
On a lighter note, on a thread on dysartes.com, called 'what would you like to see in the next guard codex' or something, someone said 'bring back the imperial beatmen!'.

The beat? I doubt the High Lords could dig that

BrookM wrote:
Fluff-nutting aside, part of me hopes for really good new stuff rule wise, but on the other hand I feel that we don't need a crapton of new rules and crap like the marines. I'd rather see the really old models replaced by new ones (priests and Rough Riders), that promised Valkyrie and fingers crossed, a new plastic regiment.

Yeah I know what you mean, and I'm alco counting on it. I would like to see al leman russ varants in one box , and plastic valkiries and also DKOK Hope we'll se it soon.
Regards.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm betting Jervis simply cannot wait to put the 'glancing = penetrating' rule back in for Hellhounds.

I think he just salivates in general about all the Codices he can make revert back to their original 3rd Ed versions.

BYE

Heh heh heh heh heh he.... I wonder if the Tau will magically turn into space dwarves...

Chances of FW turning over their Death Korps goldmine to GW are slim to nothing and I'd rather have the FW version over the concepts of GW that look horrible in comparison, I mean WTF! Why does GW always give them pickelhauben!

GW and FW are the same company. If GW wants to do plastic Krieg, they'll do plastic Krieg.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:GW and FW are the same company. If GW wants to do plastic Krieg, they'll do plastic Krieg.

BYE

Yes I know that. But I heard form my colleauge that with new IG codex will appear a plastic DKOK.
That would be very nice ]:->

I still think they'll leave DKOK to FW. It is their gold mine after all, as BrookM stated.
If GW are getting the money from FW sales. I'm sure they'll want to keep that coming.

They may however decide that adding to that range by offering cheaper plastic infantry may boost sales. Who knows. I doubt it.

Isn't that what they do? Like the Skyray, Piranha, Vindicator, and Baneblade, they basically just steal FW's design and make 'em in plastic.

Guess it makes it far more accessible, able to be sold in shops in pretty boxes to kids who don't even know what a Forge World is. I can see the reasoning there.

But I'm fully confident FW won't 'discontinue' their Resin DKOK. Which is very good, because I'm not buying a bunch of under-detailed plastic wannabes!

BrookM wrote:40k still has autoguns, but they are high-calibre caseless rifles with insane blowback on full auto. GW has a model of the autogun that looks like the M4 with a "grenade launcher" under the barrel, but in reality that thing is a heavy counter weight to hold the gun down a little when you fire it. (source: IA 5)

You're talking about the Vraksian Renegade Militiamen's autoguns, right BrookM?

A new plastic regiment sounds nice, but I want to see the Codex fixed first, meaning all units and options in the Codex worth taking and multiple ways to use the Guard effectively, rather than the one basic way we've got now.

"Course, that'd be overkill, but it'd be nice if they did that in such a way that it'd cut down on IG kill points."

Huh, I always figured they would simply make the entire platoon worth one kill point or half the platoon or something similar.

As for the AC, the thing I really want to see is a "Patton" -esque special character that had its own tank and allowed Russ Squadrons as troops with attached chimeras for the mechanised infantry....

Just to throw my two cents in:

Was at Canadian GW HQ yesterday, speaking with some of the head office staff (was kind of cool, was playing a 2 player 20k point Apoc game, and all kinds of the staff from HQ were coming over to see if it was true).

From what I was told:

Codex should be around may of 2009.
There will be "22 tanks" in the codex, not just including Forgeworld variants.
Beyond that, nothing that hasn't been said before.


Now, with personal speculation I'm gussing that "22 tank" variants would include things with the Chimera chassis as well as the Leman Russ chassis as well. I just hope they throw the damn Griffon back into the game.

Edited to add the nationality of the GW HQ

It said in the 2nd latest WD in the sneak preview that there would be ALOT more tanks, mithrax just pretty much backed that up

Cheers,
Gutteridge

Mithrax wrote:Codex should be around may of 2009.
There will be "22 tanks" in the codex, not just including Forgeworld variants.

Yay. IG are getting something sooner than later.

22 Tanks? That's quite a few compared to the 5 we've got now:
- Chimera
- Hellhound
- Basilisk
- Leman Russ
- Demolisher

Return the OOP Classic models, and we're up to 7:
+ Griffon
+ Exterminator

15 to go, so we dig into FW!
+ Vanquisher
+ Conquerer
+ Executioner
+ Annihilator
+ Bombard
+ Destroyer
+ Thunderer
+ Atlas ARV

+Salamander
+Medusa
+Hydra
+Manticore
+Trojan

+Centaur

Hmm... FW can fill the gap without requiring any superheavies. That's very convenient. Let's just hope we don't have the old nonsense of charging more for things like Conqueror compared to standard Russes.

AlexCage wrote:Isn't that what they do? Like the Skyray, Piranha, Vindicator, and Baneblade, they basically just steal FW's design and make 'em in plastic.

Guess it makes it far more accessible, able to be sold in shops in pretty boxes to kids who don't even know what a Forge World is. I can see the reasoning there.

But I'm fully confident FW won't 'discontinue' their Resin DKOK. Which is very good, because I'm not buying a bunch of under-detailed plastic wannabes!

What's to steal? It's GW property and they're letting FW make a kit that VEts would bye, seeing which ones are popular enough to make profit if made in plastic and then giving their customer base the bit of what they want that isn't a huge risk.

I think it's a great way for them to find out what's popular enough to put into plastic production. I.E. plastic DKOK, with less detail of course, and a fantastic resin range to back it up.

Plastic Kasrkin would be fantastic, hopefully they don't oversize them though. They're not Space Marines in Carapace, they should be the same size as normal guard in height but only with more padding. The conversion possibilities that plastic stormtroopers opens up already have me wishing for the new year. Even if doctrines are gone as has been highly speculated, hopefully a Carapaced regiment still makes it in.