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I would be surprised to find that Forge World were resin casting in China. It is pretty much a cottage industry and productions runs are low. Quality control is important in resin casting and the Chinese have a problem with that.

So for Forge World KK. So do Forge World.

BYE

I for one still hold that PPP would be great for GW. I don't think it would push other productions out of the way at all, as most likely GW would just farm out the designs to other companies and have them make the minis.

It would be similiar to when hero quest was available on store shelves, that was a GW liscenced product but made by Milton Bradley (i believe), and that didn't affect GW at all.

The PPP would also allow GW to go more mainstream which is something i've always thought they should do.

I could easliy see GW making a ruleset for a simple game similiar to heroscape, but using 40k armies, that was available in Wal-marts. It would be the gateway drug to get kids into GW stores.

People always go to extremes....

Imagine GW doing both and you are on the right path.

Besides, Rackham and PP do get their plastics from China.

The problem with this talk of alternate lines and gateway games to 40K is that GW does not have a good history of accomplishing that. The last thing we need is for more of White Dwarf to be taken up with ads for some game none of us play that's supposed to get more people into 40K, but doesn't, because the people who buy that game buy it for different reasons than people who buy 40K do. So then GW is stuck having to support two fairly separate audiences that they don't really have the attention span to please adequately but they don't want to suffer the outcry if they drop either line to focus on giving a satisfactory product to the other.

Who´s talking of two different lines, you just produce standard troops prepainted and non-prepainted and that´s how most will be happy.

Ask Mongoose how that "Prepainted to a standard 90% better then average gamers" is doing for them. (It killed them as a serious gaming company.)

Rackim almost went under over the AT43 prepaints, and people can't give them away. It has its fans, as I'm sure, does Warzone. And how were these games as a release, by the way?( Both games, combined, made as much news as an underwater fart.)

Eggs in one basket have quality control. Putting wasted resources to prepaints leads to accepting substandard product. ( Collectables, Hero clix, Prepainted Star Wars, toys.)
Then people are then just as inclined to buy it just to say ,"Oh, I got the special edition prepainted space marine. He's green, instead of blue!"

Prepainted fugures are a cheese product. Every time this subject comes up it goes south.

Grot 6 wrote:Ask Mongoose how that "Prepainted to a standard 90% better then average gamers" is doing for them. (It killed them as a serious gaming company.)

But again, that wasn't because they were prepaints... it was because they were rubbish.

Eggs in one basket have quality control.

Mongoose had all their eggs in one basket, and still had no quality control. That was their entire problem.

GW markets this as a hobby... not a game. Hence why they don't fix the rules.

Rackham's are painted in China, as ell as cast there. hence the interminable wait for Wave 08 in the US.

And Mongoose flounders from day to day no matter WHAT it's selling. That company is run by monkeys.

insaniak wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:Ask Mongoose how that "Prepainted to a standard 90% better then average gamers" is doing for them. (It killed them as a serious gaming company.)

But again, that wasn't because they were prepaints... it was because they were rubbish.

Eggs in one basket have quality control.

Mongoose had all their eggs in one basket, and still had no quality control. That was their entire problem.

Point taken.

Thanks for the pool of urine under my chair now. Great example for my children, good job. That title made my mullet curl up in pheer!

Mattlov wrote:I don't think it would be a bad thng for for things like Guardsmen and very generic troops that won't hve a large variance.

Of course, I can't come up with anything that would work on other than Guardsmen...

You make the mistake that Guardsmen are simply 'horde' troops. They're not, if used correctly.

I'd say Tyranids, definately. Failing that, Necrons, simply because they are actually the same model, over and over.

~sA

smiling Assassin wrote:

Mattlov wrote:I don't think it would be a bad thng for for things like Guardsmen and very generic troops that won't hve a large variance.

Of course, I can't come up with anything that would work on other than Guardsmen...

You make the mistake that Guardsmen are simply 'horde' troops. They're not, if used correctly.

I'd say Tyranids, definately. Failing that, Necrons, simply because they are actually the same model, over and over.

~sA

Disagre... Nids are the same model over and over again as much as Guardsmen are.

smiling Assassin wrote:

Mattlov wrote:I don't think it would be a bad thng for for things like Guardsmen and very generic troops that won't hve a large variance.

Of course, I can't come up with anything that would work on other than Guardsmen...

You make the mistake that Guardsmen are simply 'horde' troops. They're not, if used correctly.

I'd say Tyranids, definately. Failing that, Necrons, simply because they are actually the same model, over and over.

~sA

But Tyranids come in such a variety of colors it is less feasible. Do they stick with one of the main hive fleet colors? Create a new one for prepaints?

Necrons would work pretty well for prepainted, but they are already super easy to get to a tabletop standard I'm not sure they are worth it.

Nids could be moulded in various colour plastic and detailed up with two more colours quickly enough.

People act like pre-painted figures are a new thing. They've been around for over a century. When toy soldiers became popular in Victorian times, all figures were pre-painted.

A note on them only looking good at a distance
EXAMPLE SCENARIO
Gamer 1: Hey man, ready for our game?
Gamer 2: Sure thing, let's get set up!

They prepare the table, unpack their minis and begin the game

Gamer 2: Whoah! Nicely painted army!
Gamer 1: I didn't paint it! A complete stranger did it for me!
Gamer 2: Awesome! anyway I'm gonna check line of sight to one of your dudes, seing as we're playing 5th I'll just bend down and have a look.

Gamer 2 looks closely at Gamer 1's models, he realises his mistake

Gamer 2: AAARGH! MY EYES!

moral: PPP minis are bad

P4NC4K3 wrote: seing as we're playing 5th I'll just bend down and have a look.

What does playing 5th have to do with it?

Gamer 2: AAARGH! MY EYES!

moral: PPP minis are bad

I've played against countless player-painted armies that would have had the same effect.

Ha ha.

Even so, the worst pre-painted figures are better than bare or primed unpainted figures.

FWIW.

insaniak wrote:What does playing 5th have to do with it?

TLOS and the "model's eye view" I imagine.

The Dreadnote wrote:

insaniak wrote:What does playing 5th have to do with it?

TLOS and the "model's eye view" I imagine.

And so the question again: What does playing 5th have to do with it?

Every edition of 40K so far has used the model's eye view as the core of the LOS rules.

No they have not. Only in 5th was it expressly stated that you used a models eye view. It was always base to base before, as now ratlings can shoot out of many buildings

And I will adamantly oppose any thought of Pre-painted minis.

If you don't want to paint the models, please find another hobby, we don't need Heroclix players here.

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:No they have not. Only in 5th was it expressly stated that you used a models eye view.

4th edition Rulebook, page 20:
"In some cases it might be difficult to tell if line of sight is blocked or not, so players might have to stoop over the table for a model's eye view"...


3rd edition Rulebook, page 45:
"Sometimes it may be hard to tell if a line of sight is blocked or not, so players must stoop over the table for a 'model's eye view'. ...


2nd edition Rulebook, page 26:
"However, in some cases it is difficult to tell if a line of sight is blocked or not, and players must stoop over the table for a 'model's eye view'. ...


I don't have the Rogue Trader book, but I'm told it says something similar.

It was always base to base before, as now ratlings can shoot out of many buildings

LOS has never been base to base.

If you don't want to paint the models, please find another hobby, we don't need Heroclix players here.

The 'hobby' for those who want prepainted miniatures, is 'wargaming'... If you have another hobby that involves painting your toy soldiers before you then use them in wargames, then that's great for you. But it's simply not what everyone wants from their wargaming hobby.

The level of scorn often shown by those who think that people who like prepaints are somehow debasing their hobby frankly amazes me. I wouldn't even think of looking down on someone because they want their miniatures already painted... any more than I would look down on someone playing monopoly with the pieces straight out of the box.

How you enjoy your hobby is your business. Let other people enjoy it their own way.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Who´s talking of two different lines, you just produce standard troops prepainted and non-prepainted and that´s how most will be happy.

Duncan

Products are sold, ordered and inventory by their sku. Each sku is a separate product with a fixed price. Every Space Marine tactical squad will have the same sku, which will be different from the combat squad, battle force etc. When a product is rung up, the entered sku will inform the register what the price should be, and then the customer is charged. If prepainted squads are offered in addition to unpainted marines, a new an unique sku will be needed for each separate product.

What does this mean for the retailer if marines are now available in PPP for the 4 main chapters (red, blue, green and gray)?

Suddenly, they have to stock 5 products for every marine sku, 5 kinds of tac squads, assault squads, bike squads, termie squads...

Let's say that no one likes gray marines, then that product sits on the shelf, when that space could be filled by other, hotter selling products. Which loses the retailer money.

Far better to sell a generic product that the user can customize. Unless you're suggesting that GW goes to the collectible route like PP did. And no thank you, please.

People always assume the worst. Chances of GW going the pre-painted route are slim to nil.

Valhallan42nd wrote:What does this mean for the retailer if marines are now available in PPP for the 4 main chapters (red, blue, green and gray)?

Suddenly, they have to stock 5 products for every marine sku, 5 kinds of tac squads, assault squads, bike squads, termie squads...

No they don't, any more than they have to stock every sku now.

Retailers make a choice as to how much of the range they want on the shelf. GW (at least here in Oz) even offers range packages designed to fit into different types and sizes of shops, with a range of product designed to fit into the available space while maximising sales.

There's also ways around it... adding new product doesn't necessarily mean increasing the range. Lines are periodically dropped off to make shelf space for newer boxes. And simply revising the box contents can remove the need for multiple boxes.

Let's say that no one likes gray marines, then that product sits on the shelf, when that space could be filled by other, hotter selling products. Which loses the retailer money.

Which is no different to what happens now... and is why GW will periodically review the range the retailer has sitting on the shelf, or offer to accept back non-selling items at given times... the actual procedure changes from time to time, but this is something that GW have been doing for at least 15 years now.

What's wrong with pre-paints sure they aren't as good but they are painted better than my figs and you can play with them straight out of the box

@Valhallan42nd

Actually I am working in the industry and do know how things are calculated.

All I am saying for now is: People will be surprised how companies are going to change their product lines in the coming two years.

Duncan

What part of the industry are you in? Are you a retailer, distrubutor, etc?

PPP is a viable sales tool if handled designed into the game the ground up, like in monsterpocalypse.

With such an extensive range, GW's lines are not ideal for PPP, unless it's for a secondary game like PP now has.

I don't see it happening in a way that will be a benefit for any party (GW, the retailer, or the player) in the long run.

If you want painted mini's bluetable and paintedfigs are there to help you get to that point. You'll be able to give them custom schemes, etc. They're just post painted.

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:

If you don't want to paint the models, please find another hobby, we don't need Heroclix players here.

Tad self-righteous don't you think? Who the heck are you to tell people what they want in a hobby? Jeez, some people ......