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Aduro wrote:

Eidolon wrote:I hope its not templars for fleet based marines. We already have too many no brainer hand to hand armies in the game.

That is an interesting point I think. They did Wolves, are doing Blood Angels, and if they do Templars after, that's three melee oriented Marines in a row, and with `Nids being the confirmed Xenos at the moment, even more melee goodness.

Given that SM & DA are the "shooty" Marines, and were released one after the other, of course the remaining fighty Marines will have to release one after another.

Given that the armies have lifetimes measured in years, I hardly see how this really makes any difference.

It wrote:I thought the 'BA are only half the story' thing would mean they are releasing the other chapter at the same time... but oh well. Another hope down the drain...

Not necessarily, we're still rumour mongering here, remember

I still maintain an Inquisitor HQ entry in the Guard codex would have been entirely appropriate, especially if it made Stormtroopers become a Troops choice.

yeah,
But GW isn't in the business of making sense. PlagueMarines with no access to PlagueBearers etc...
I think H.B.M.C. has a valid reason to be worried about his kind of army remaining valid in the future.
I expect he'll lose out and have to adjust his army to make it fit the new codex.

But you can't stop progress... I'd love to see a all in one codex witches daemons and xenos.
I just hope they make it flexible so that exisiting builds can still be constructed.
With the eldar codex they did a ok job of incorporating quirky lists into the codex, e.g. 10 x wraithguard count as troops to help out Iyanden lists.
They need that kind of approach, look at the existing builds and make sure that 90% of these can still be built with the new codex.

Panic...

It amazes me how many wild conclusions people can come to from "And thats only half the story".

"Codex BA have X, Y and Z units and N fluff, and thats only half the story".
See? Could mean that there is more interesting/surpricing fluff and strange units WITHIN the BA codex...

Wonder if the "nice stuff winging its way" that Harry talked about is a Thunderhawk. It's shaping up to be a two SM codex year, so it could fit in that sense.

Although my understanding is that the kit would occupy virtually every bit of capacity their machines have. And it seems like a fairly busy year between the codex and army book releases around a new edition of a core game. So maybe it doesn't fit from a manufacturing sense, I dunno.

Blood Angels were in Space Hulk, so the "other half of the story" could well be DA. i.e. Deathwing.

Still, its BoLS so Caveat emptor.

DE is on an infinitely looping developmental circle.
Necrons is another story.
I'd be glad to see them being redone.

gorgon wrote:Wonder if the "nice stuff winging its way" that Harry talked about is a Thunderhawk. It's shaping up to be a two SM codex year, so it could fit in that sense.

Although my understanding is that the kit would occupy virtually every bit of capacity their machines have. And it seems like a fairly busy year between the codex and army book releases around a new edition of a core game. So maybe it doesn't fit from a manufacturing sense, I dunno.

Thunderhawk? That's something I'd completely forgotten about. Theme-wise, the Thunderhawk would fit with BA Deep Striking, and BT being fleet-based, so it'd definitely cap the year off nicely.

With 40k being a down year (BA & BT in Q2 & Q4 being relatively low-profile army releases), the Thunderhawk could be the big release at Holiday 2010. As neither BA nor BT need a lot of new plastic, there actually would be production capacity for this kit. Q1 & Q2 are gearing up for WFB8 releasing Q3 (hence the minor 40k army releases - like SW, BA & BT take approximately ZERO production capacity). That frees up Q3 and Q4 to run the machines full-bore and stock up Thunderhawk kits for a massive Holiday release.

I think the Thunderhawk fits better in 2010 than anywhere else in the schedule. Especially moving BA & BT to SW mega bitz-type upgrade sprues.

Deep in the development cycle eh?

You heard it here first! Dark Eldar and Necrons are the hot new armies for 2011 (or maybe 2012).

George Spiggott wrote:Deep in the development cycle eh?

You heard it here first! Dark Eldar and Necrons are the hot new armies for 2011 (or maybe 2012).

The thing that we've known about Dark Eldar, and the main thing forestalling the release?

Jes Goodwin. Doing. Practically. A. Whole. Line. Solo.

That's a perfectly good reason for a delay.

According to the various rumors dating back to October, 2008, Jes has been working on the new DE line for well over a year now, and the DE Codex (by Phil Kelly, no less) has been finished for at least 6 months.

Wait, are we talking about a plastic thunderhawk, ala Valkyrie.

Yesh, we're talking about a plastic Thunderhawk being hinted for a 2010 release.

But a Thawk is way bigger than a Valk. More than twice the size, IIRC.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Your SoB fanboyism knows no bounds DD. You also seem to forget that GW is very good at just inventing units out of thin air to fill up a Codex (Storm, Ironclad, Thunderfire, Van/Sternguard) - but you dislike the idea of a GK army so much that you refuse to see it.

Of course they can expand GK's to an army. They already expanded them from a single squad into a major part of an army. They can just invent more units.

Easy enough.

While I agree with the majority of your posts, GW can do that, your pushing it when you say major part of an army. A pair more special weapons makes a heavy support and deepstriking to another does not make it a major part in any way. Its just the curly shuffle. GW could of course make major changes.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm not saying that that's a bad idea, I just like my Archo-Flagellents, my Daemonhosts, my Death Cultists and all the other crazy things I have that suck, but are fun to use.

So say we all.

Plastic thunderhawk would be baller, so long as they dont let it be fielded in normal play

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yesh, we're talking about a plastic Thunderhawk being hinted for a 2010 release.

As much as I would like that, it's quite a stretch from a fragmentry quote reading "very nice stuff winging its way in our direction".

Honestly, a plastic Thawk at this stage would not be that far. We have plastic Super Heavies and a Plastic Stompa (which never even saw a FW model.)

I know I would gladly grab 4 Thawks if they are released, one for every PA army I play.

JohnHwangDD wrote:According to the various rumors dating back to October, 2008, Jes has been working on the new DE line for well over a year now, and the DE Codex (by Phil Kelly, no less) has been finished for at least 6 months.

Yeah, and the codex come out after the 6th ed rule book.
Merry Christmas.

Maybe the 'other half of the story' will be that they just do the DA book and a few metal characters rather than a full list to bring it in line with the other marines? i mean its not like they need any more plastic minis.

Its no fun having models go to the back of the cabnit, to await a codex that allows them back ina edition or 2. still there isnt any reason you cant play the old codex. GW is always fixing up its codexes, some for keeping up with new rules versions, or fixing rules that were unbalanced, etc. not such a bad thing actually, except for your pocket of course.
On topic: if there will be a new marien codex. please let it be something fresh, and not another reright of a chapter thats already been done. heck id settle for rainbow warriors codex before i'll look at another DA, BA, or SW codex again, so long as its fresh and different.

I would love to see every non space marine codex updated before another marine anything.

jp400 wrote:I would love to see every non space marine codex updated before another marine anything.

I'd like to win the lottery.

Guess which of us has a better chance of getting their way?

jp400 wrote:I would love to see every non space marine codex updated before another marine anything.

Never heard that one before.

fleet based, winging, other half implies DA but I'm not feeling it, BT maybe if only to get the troops/vehicle costs and wargear rules consistent across the marine line. I can't imagine they're happy with that as it presumably puts new players off starting a BT army.

At this stage I actually think Necrons need the new codex more than DE do since they're virtually unplayable in 5th edition. In contrast DE just seem to get better with every rule change. I'd still love to see them get a redone codex (and models, obviously) if only because it would be nice to have more than one viable army build.

Oh and a Tau hint it seems? Well Necrons still need the update more than anyone but Tau are pretty deserving too. I can live with that.

We're getting new missions in March with marine kits so my bet is the t-hawk drops then.

As for the Inquisition forces moving Witchunters to a more SOB focused book would do wonders for that army but not as much as plastic sisters would. Presently they have great rules and fantastic fluff, are a blast to play with and against and have wonderful models tey just cost more to collect than any other army in the game. My wishlist is plastics, keep faith, vehicles/wargear drops to bring them in line with the rest of the Imperials, bring back older choices (zealots, frteris milita, arbites), keep the weird stuff and make it useful, expand the sisters options a little (a new fast vehicle/unit maybe they actually have everything they need already) and you'd have a cracking book.

GK can get a similar treatment but you need to maintain the feel of them being elite so a lot of their choices can be filled by IG units with the rules printed in the book rather than "allies". Some expansion (a decent fast attack choice and more vehicles) and make the crappy stuff worthwhile (daemonhosts) and they'd be good to go.

Regarding the "weird" or "circus" units that everyone is worried will be dropped I think all this talk of focusing on the chamber militant rather than the wird suff will be more present in tone, art, name, etc . I can't see any of the circus units disappearing entirely purely because GW makes kits for them and since 3rd ed (bar the somewhat disastrous late 3rd IG codex that upset lots of exterminator owners and some IC's) GW has not totally removed from the game a unit that they make a kit for. We might see it dropped from one army but retained in another (i.e. exterminators no longer for wolves) but I doubt penitent engines or archoflagellants will simply be written out of the game.

Regarding allies I like the present rules but they cause no end of headaches for designers. I don't have a problem with the main units straying from allies (i.e. sisters battle squads, GK termies) but Inquisitors and assassins need to stay as allies in some shape or form. That just makes sense business wise, design wise and fluff wise. It feels right that we can add an Inquisitor to a massive guard army or lend a lone assassin to a SM strikeforce, that is appropriate to how they should be fielded. They are not exclusively used by the Sisters and GK's. Plus plenty of people have a lone Assassin or Inquisitor in their army. Now the usual GW spiel in that situation is that we have an excuse to start a new force. Whilst that's patronising bs at the best of times it is much easier to swallow if you have a couple of sisters squads then if you have 2 guys!

Grey knights do need a update imho. Way to point costing for what they do. They either should get a power boost or a point reduction. The following should hopefuly be done:

- Redesign the majority of the deamonhunter powers. About 70% of them are just plain useless these days.
- Improve the statline of the grey knights in general instead of a point reduction.
- Update the equipment section with 5th editon items (ie, ss th combos, etc) along with a few new additions
- Fix up some of the units
- Improve the options for heavy support and fast attack for the love of the emperor! Having little choice in either of those can make GK's rather dry, but nether the less still fun. Orbital bombardments are a good idea, easy to use but dangerous to both sides

Well... 2010 rumors come and go, but lets just wait til next year before we start them, hey?

Superscope wrote:
- Improve the statline of the grey knights in general instead of a point reduction.

This. I want to see this so much. I dont ever want to see someone with 50 grey knights on the field, they are the most elite of the elite. But if they got some kind of power update they would be ballin. Maybe give them all artificer armor, justicar included in the squad, cheaper guns. Not all three but just throwing out ideas.

Another neat idea would be for them to get one of say 4 squad upgrade psychic powers to use at the start of each turn. They have to take a test, but the whole squad benefits from it. Test could work on a fantasy system, more powerful abilities take up more power dice, limited power dice pool dependant on number of grey knights in army. Powers could be stuff like-
improved holocaust ability
power weapons
Fire an extra shot/twice
Armor save boost
gain a 4+ invuln.

Im not thinking about balance, I just like the idea of very elite grey knights.

I think that the grey knights should be unbalanced they are the best of the bests best!

Yeah...no. You start thinking like that and then every army will be unbalanced.

Kanluwen wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:Deep in the development cycle eh?

You heard it here first! Dark Eldar and Necrons are the hot new armies for 2011 (or maybe 2012).

The thing that we've known about Dark Eldar, and the main thing forestalling the release?

Jes Goodwin. Doing. Practically. A. Whole. Line. Solo.

That's a perfectly good reason for a delay.

Hear hear. This right here- as well as the rumored compatibility with existing Craftworld plastics- is worth another year or so of suck in the meantime. If jetbikes are a possible dual-army kit, we're looking at a whole new era of kitbashing for the best-looking models in 40K.