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I was going to interject into this conversation, but it's apparently harder to get national certified college graduation rates beyond 2002 than I thought it would be. I hit my limit of five minutes of wandering around google. I found plenty of individual schools, but no aggregate comparisons by state that weren't just comparing sports program graduation rates.

Frazzled wrote:Then you failed.

According to the 2000 census the South had the lowest rate of high school graduation, the lowest rate of partial college completion, the lowest rate of advanced degree completion, and the 2nd lowest rate of Bachelors degree completion (behind the Midwest by .2%) Of course, the only statistically significant differences are between the most educated region, and the least educated region(s).

Frazzled wrote:Because you don't imbreed your degrees with similar schools?

Your mastery of statistics and examples is...interesting.

Wait UNC Chapel Hill/ Who the hell cares about UNC Chapel Hill. Is that even an accredited school?

If frazzled was correct then we would expect to see many southern Ph.Ds on the faculty in NE universities. This is not the case. Why, then, are Ph.Ds from the south less competitive? Is it because the Scopes trial resulted in an aversion to teaching modern science? Who knows?

olympia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Because you don't imbreed your degrees with similar schools?

Your mastery of statistics and examples is...interesting.

Wait UNC Chapel Hill/ Who the hell cares about UNC Chapel Hill. Is that even an accredited school?

If frazzled was correct then we would expect to see many southern Ph.Ds on the faculty in NE universities. This is not the case. Why, then, are Ph.Ds from the south less competitive? Is it because the Scopes trial resulted in an aversion to teaching modern science? Who knows?

Methinks you have issues.

Guitardian wrote:I think voting with idiocracy mindset is probably very prevalent in less-than-educated communities.

Like inner city dwellers and low income type voting for the politicians that give them the biggest handouts? Check.

Guitardian wrote: It just so happens that some of the Republican platforms stances appeal to the lower echelon of the gene pool. That's where this 'tea party movement' comes from. Dumb people who don't know squat about what they are yelling about but just want to be heard anyway.

Biased much? I'd be glad to go toe to toe on the IQ meter with you any day of the week.

Could it be, just maybe, that the Tea Party goers know exactly what they are yelling about, and that's why they want to be heard? Because they are tired of getting every last dime wrung out of them by the Fed? They are tired of Bureaucrats using their money to solicit votes for themselves?

Like inner city dwellers and low income type voting for the politicians that give them the biggest handouts? Check.

Those checks go to your trailer parks just as much as his projects.

Biased much? I'd be glad to go toe to toe on the IQ meter with you any day of the week.

I'll stand in for him!

Could it be, just maybe, that the Tea Party goers know exactly what they are yelling about, and that's why they want to be heard? Because they are tired of getting every last dime wrung out of them by the Fed? They are tired of Bureaucrats using their money to solicit votes for themselves?

Nah, they're just idiots.

Nah, Git.

Liberals are edumacated peeples and so we dum rednek conservatives only yell to be herd, wee half no idea what the Constitution means because apparently we can't read nor right so we only yell about tings because we are tired of slappin' around our girlfriends who also happen to be our sisters.

As to inner cities taking on entire states themselves them guys don't even know how to shoot. Only in rap videos do you hold a gun sideways and shoot it. Oh wait, they aren't really shooting that gun, it's all for show. fethers probably can't even aim to save their lives.

Send the mean streets of Chicago to Northern Minnesota and they'd be running back home like the Redcoats did when we whooped their asses 200+ years ago.

http://www.nowhampshire.com/2010/04/14/source-state-dems-scrambling-to-deploy-tea-party-%E2%80%98crashers%E2%80%99/


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Fateweaver wrote:Nah, Git.

Liberals are edumacated peeples and so we dum rednek conservatives only yell to be herd, wee half no idea what the Constitution means because apparently we can't read nor right so we only yell about tings because we are tired of slappin' around our girlfriends who also happen to be our sisters.

As to inner cities taking on entire states themselves them guys don't even know how to shoot. Only in rap videos do you hold a gun sideways and shoot it. Oh wait, they aren't really shooting that gun, it's all for show. fethers probably can't even aim to save their lives.

Send the mean streets of Chicago to Northern Minnesota and they'd be running back home like the Redcoats did when we whooped their asses 200+ years ago.

I think sending people to northern Minnesota is awar crime or something. When Alaskans say "no way that place is too cold" you know something's wrong.

Frazzled wrote:http://www.nowhampshire.com/2010/04/14/source-state-dems-scrambling-to-deploy-tea-party-%E2%80%98crashers%E2%80%99/

Your right fraz! Maybe the guys bringing guns to presidential rallies were actually secret liberals!

Obama said He was going to concentrate in creating jobs. But it seems he is busy destroying the Tea Party Movement with illegal nasty Kenyan tricks.

Remember Obama’s dream is that American Patriots become violent, that will give Him the excuse to impose Martial Law and stay in power 20 yrs.

Obama is being guided by his cousin Odinga, the Kenyan mass murderer, who burns Christians alive for kicks.

Hell, they've already infiltrated the comments to that article!

ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:http://www.nowhampshire.com/2010/04/14/source-state-dems-scrambling-to-deploy-tea-party-%E2%80%98crashers%E2%80%99/

Your right fraz! Maybe the guys bringing guns to presidential rallies were actually secret liberals!

Hell, they've already infiltrated the comments to that article!

Er, what? those weren't tea party protests. You're confusing rallies again.*
*they were nuts though, but not secret liberals. We all know secret liberals would never touch a firearm, or even a water gun because its not nurturing. Its just too icky and would besmirch their birkenstocks.

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:http://www.nowhampshire.com/2010/04/14/source-state-dems-scrambling-to-deploy-tea-party-%E2%80%98crashers%E2%80%99/

Your right fraz! Maybe the guys bringing guns to presidential rallies were actually secret liberals!

Hell, they've already infiltrated the comments to that article!

Er, what? those weren't tea party protests. You're confusing rallies again.*
*they were nuts though, but not secret liberals. We all know secret liberals would never touch a firearm, or even a water gun because its not nurturing. Its just too icky and would besmirch their birkenstocks.

I was under the impression that they were tea party parishioners. Didn't they reference the tea parties typical standing platforms of constitutional rights, socialism, and general flying rodent gak conspiracy insanity when they were interviewed? I suppose they can't really be proven as such without someone scrounging up an interview where they identify themselves as such. I suppose they're just going to have to occupy the same category of people as the tea partiers without actually being teapartiers for now.

No. Are you talking about the guys just in, pardon the pun, rifle distance of Obama pre election? Those were 2nd Amendment/right to carry advocates/nutjobs.

I do believe this is one of the events where I was called a commie pinko on another thread...

Frazzled wrote:No. Are you talking about the guys just in, pardon the pun, rifle distance of Obama pre election? Those were 2nd Amendment/right to carry advocates/nutjobs.

I do believe this is one of the events where I was called a commie pinko on another thread...

Yeah, thos're the one. The way I understood it a few of them were vanguards for the fledgeling teaprties. Not the initial guys, but once it became slightly more commonplace and more wackjobs started to think it was a good idea.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Frazzled wrote:No. Are you talking about the guys just in, pardon the pun, rifle distance of Obama pre election? Those were 2nd Amendment/right to carry advocates/nutjobs.

I do believe this is one of the events where I was called a commie pinko on another thread...

Yeah, thos're the one. The way I understood it a few of them were vanguards for the fledgeling teaprties. Not the initial guys, but once it became slightly more commonplace.

No there may have been other protesters about, but this guy was specifically a RTC dude. It is Arizona. They are too close to the sun and too far from sweet tea.

Frazzled wrote:No. Are you talking about the guys just in, pardon the pun, rifle distance of Obama pre election? Those were 2nd Amendment/right to carry advocates/nutjobs.

You must be talking about this racist Right Wing Extremist visible about 20 seconds in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syx26QtQIM&feature=related

Now watch this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI

Notice what they did for the article about "Angry White People"? They slipped in the Brother and EDITED OUT HIS RACE.

Yea I didn't get past the whole taking a rifle thing to where a presidential Candidate was going to show up* (not including NRA rallies of course). Really. Really?

Well yeah... he was asking for it.

Frankly I'd have expected the front line news to be "Bi-racial outrage at government grows" rather than "Angry rifle toting White boys".

The Green Git wrote:

Frazzled wrote:No. Are you talking about the guys just in, pardon the pun, rifle distance of Obama pre election? Those were 2nd Amendment/right to carry advocates/nutjobs.

You must be talking about this racist Right Wing Extremist visible about 20 seconds in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syx26QtQIM&feature=related

Now watch this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI

Notice what they did for the article about "Angry White People"? They slipped in the Brother and EDITED OUT HIS RACE.

Wow. That is friggin' wack. Unsurprising, but still wack, and completely irresponsible....unfortunately media dishonesty isn't really anything new.

I'd have thought it would read "secret service shoots idiot 427 times."

The Green Git wrote:Well yeah... he was asking for it.

Frankly I'd have expected the front line news to be "Bi-racial outrage at government grows" rather than "Angry rifle toting White boys".

Yeah, but that wouldn't help their ratings as much. It's all about the money.

I love Tea. Why do they have to ruin it for tea lovers everywhere?

The Green Git wrote:Well yeah... he was asking for it.

Frankly I'd have expected the front line news to be "Bi-racial outrage at government grows" rather than "Angry rifle toting White boys".

I don't remember it being angry guntoting whiteboys at the time, though I also don't get my news from youtube or the talking head idiots on msnbc at 3pm.

The Green Git wrote:

Guitardian wrote:I think voting with idiocracy mindset is probably very prevalent in less-than-educated communities.

Like inner city dwellers and low income type voting for the politicians that give them the biggest handouts? Check.

Guitardian wrote: It just so happens that some of the Republican platforms stances appeal to the lower echelon of the gene pool. That's where this 'tea party movement' comes from. Dumb people who don't know squat about what they are yelling about but just want to be heard anyway.

Biased much? I'd be glad to go toe to toe on the IQ meter with you any day of the week.

Could it be, just maybe, that the Tea Party goers know exactly what they are yelling about, and that's why they want to be heard? Because they are tired of getting every last dime wrung out of them by the Fed? They are tired of Bureaucrats using their money to solicit votes for themselves?

Oh please. Personal attacks and challenges aside, I suppose I shall explain my point of view further. (by the way, I'm not sure exactly how one goes about going 'toe to toe' on an IQ test anyways...)

The Civil War was about trade regulation, that helped the northern industrial economy and hurt the southern raw-materials economy. They tacked on slavery later to make it into a 'noble' bout of idiocy. That is essentially the difference between cities and country nowadays. Country has the cornfields and wheat fields, cities have wall street, communication centers, and factories. The difference between then and now is technology. Of course nobody would want to go to northern Minnesota (I did, but I stuck to Minneapolis and thought it was a pretty cool town, even in the dead of winter) in an invading army travelling on foot... but OH YEAH THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO MARCH THROUGH IT ON FOOT ANY MORE WOULD THEY?. The National Guard has access to all the military technology as the regular armed forces. And they are usually located around state capitals and population centers, not near uncle Jebs moonshine shed. That is what I meant about cities having the power.

I am not biased against the country except by my own observation. Having lived in both environments (and currently in a country one) I can say that I had never heard stuff like " I won't vote for Obama because my pastor says that if a muslim gets in the White House, the end times are upon us..." or other utter nonsense like that until I got out here. (yes I actually heard someone say that to me as a democratic minority meeting up here in Podunk OH.)

The origional concept of the right to bear arms was to stand up against a tyrannical government should the need arise. Those days are long gone. Nobody is going to take their little militia firearms from podunk nowhere against the National Guard's Stykers, Helicopters, trained soldiers, communications, satelite access, and general technologically superior capability. It is simply that gun owners love their guns. Perhaps its compensating for something.

Whatever the reason for it, it definitely wont make a whiff of a difference to the National Guard if farmer Joe and his AK decide to start the second Civil War with their completely underpowered little militia groups that get together on weekends because they like drinking beers and shooting cans, and want to feel like that makes a difference, or it's "patriotic" or something. Owning a gun for 'patriotism' is just a dumb idea nowadays. Owning a handgun for personal protection, or a rifle for hunting is one thing, but pretending its your patriotic duty is just delusional.

The tea party movement scares the hell out of me, but stereotyping them as stupid or regressive or whatever is just going to drive people into it. People would do better to respond with reason.

Also, please keep in mind the tea party movement is not what the right to bear arms is about. What I worry is that a few extremists are going to affect the rights of more moderate people. I realize I'm one of the few gun enthusiasts that sympathizes with leftist ideas, but still.


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Guitardian wrote:

The Green Git wrote:

Guitardian wrote:I think voting with idiocracy mindset is probably very prevalent in less-than-educated communities.

Like inner city dwellers and low income type voting for the politicians that give them the biggest handouts? Check.

Guitardian wrote: It just so happens that some of the Republican platforms stances appeal to the lower echelon of the gene pool. That's where this 'tea party movement' comes from. Dumb people who don't know squat about what they are yelling about but just want to be heard anyway.

Biased much? I'd be glad to go toe to toe on the IQ meter with you any day of the week.

Could it be, just maybe, that the Tea Party goers know exactly what they are yelling about, and that's why they want to be heard? Because they are tired of getting every last dime wrung out of them by the Fed? They are tired of Bureaucrats using their money to solicit votes for themselves?

Oh please. Personal attacks and challenges aside, I suppose I shall explain my point of view further. (by the way, I'm not sure exactly how one goes about going 'toe to toe' on an IQ test anyways...)

The Civil War was about trade regulation, that helped the northern industrial economy and hurt the southern raw-materials economy. They tacked on slavery later to make it into a 'noble' bout of idiocy. That is essentially the difference between cities and country nowadays. Country has the cornfields and wheat fields, cities have wall street, communication centers, and factories. The difference between then and now is technology. Of course nobody would want to go to northern Minnesota (I did, but I stuck to Minneapolis and thought it was a pretty cool town, even in the dead of winter) in an invading army travelling on foot... but OH YEAH THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO MARCH THROUGH IT ON FOOT ANY MORE WOULD THEY?. The National Guard has access to all the military technology as the regular armed forces. And they are usually located around state capitals and population centers, not near uncle Jebs moonshine shed. That is what I meant about cities having the power.

I am not biased against the country except by my own observation. Having lived in both environments (and currently in a country one) I can say that I had never heard stuff like " I won't vote for Obama because my pastor says that if a muslim gets in the White House, the end times are upon us..." or other utter nonsense like that until I got out here. (yes I actually heard someone say that to me as a democratic minority meeting up here in Podunk OH.)

The origional concept of the right to bear arms was to stand up against a tyrannical government should the need arise. Those days are long gone. Nobody is going to take their little militia firearms from podunk nowhere against the National Guard's Stykers, Helicopters, trained soldiers, communications, satelite access, and general technologically superior capability. It is simply that gun owners love their guns. Perhaps its compensating for something.

Whatever the reason for it, it definitely wont make a whiff of a difference to the National Guard if farmer Joe and his AK decide to start the second Civil War with their completely underpowered little militia groups that get together on weekends because they like drinking beers and shooting cans, and want to feel like that makes a difference, or it's "patriotic" or something. Owning a gun for 'patriotism' is just a dumb idea nowadays. Owning a handgun for personal protection, or a rifle for hunting is one thing, but pretending its your patriotic duty is just delusional.

I really don't want to get started in this, but keep in mind terrain can make effective force multipliers. Also look at the history of partisans in WWII and how they could be quite effective in certain circumstances. Or just look at Vietnam. It is also worth noting that guerrilla or partisan warfare is a horrific, ugly, nasty form of warfare. I don't think the tea party folks would really consider something like this, I think they're making a lot of noise.

Perhaps I'm projecting my own views on others, but I would assume most gun enthusiasts look at it as an engaging hobby, like myself, or are hunters or what not.

Just to chime in on the civil war issue: widespread ownership of firearms would absolutely make a difference in the government's ability to keep control of the country. All of the logistics and technology the military relies on comes under question during a civil war; the loyalty of the military itself comes under question. Combat would be even less conventional than it currently is in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the problems we have there would be compounded immensely. You can't occupy territory with missiles and gunships, and hunting rifles and hand guns distributed among much of the population will certainly be a threat to the under-equipped, demoralized, thinly spread forces that would be attempting to combat them.

Of course, as Grignard said, the concept of a real civil war in the United States is quite ridiculous at the present. Any talk of it is bluster, or a half-baked plan to to form a roving gang that will get themselves shot within the first week of their crusade. If the right to bear arms is a protection of liberties in the United States, we wouldn't see any fruit from it unless things were to get much, much worse.

Grignard wrote:The tea party movement scares the hell out of me, but stereotyping them as stupid or regressive or whatever is just going to drive people into it. People would do better to respond with reason.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. There are a lot of factors driving people into the tea parties, but a considered review of the state of the nation is just not one of them. This thread was started by people talking about starting a militia to resist healthcare reform - we're miles away from reason.

Fortunately, when reasons are deeply felt and poorly realised they tend to burn themselves out fairly quickly. The biggest issue would be if the GOP decides to lurch further into the realm of the crazy right to pick up tea party votes, that could end up affecting policy for a while to come. But if they're left to their own devices they'll slowly wander back towards reality.

Frazzled wrote: Whats interesting is that I have been to all the locations on the list except the Florida and NJ ones. Coincidence?

So, what you are saying is.. its all your fault?

Or I like to hang out in bad areas.

I think the Tea-Tards are proof that DEVO was right, and that we are indeed de-evolving...

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here's a thousand-word essay in support of that thesis:



Nice smirk, Tea-Tard.

I like the hat.


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Yes its a good think only the right wing has wackjobs. Oh wait....

MMM duelling pictures!