OKLAHOMA CITY – Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.

Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.

"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"

Thus far, the discussions have been exploratory. Even the proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates. Critics also asserted that the force could inflame extremism, and that the National Guard already provides for the state's military needs.

"Have they heard of the Oklahoma City bombing?" said Joseph Thai, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oklahoma. The state observes the 15th anniversary of the anti-government attack on Monday. Such actions could "throw fuel in the fire of radicals," he said.

But the militia talks reflect the frustration of some grass roots groups seeking new ways of fighting recent federal initiatives, such as the health reform plan, which requires all citizens to have health insurance. Over the last year, tea party groups across the country have staged rallies and pressured politicians to protest big government and demand reduced public spending.

In strongly conservative states like Oklahoma, some legislators have also discussed further action to fight federal policies, such as state legislation and lawsuits.

State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a Republican candidate for governor who has appealed for tea party support, said supporters of a state militia have talked to him, and that he believes the citizen unit would be authorized under the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

The founding fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."

Another lawmaker, state Rep. Charles Key, R-Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance of introducing legislation for a state-authorized militia next year.

Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets."

"It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."

State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.

Some conservative legislators in Oklahoma say talk of a militia, which would be privately recruited, armed and trained, goes too far.

"If the intent is to create a militia for disaster relief, we have the National Guard," said Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City, a retired Army lieutenant colonel. "Anything beyond that purpose should be viewed with great concern and caution."

Democratic Gov. Brad Henry's communications director Paul Sund also discounted the militia discussion, saying the National Guard handles state emergencies and security.

Federal authorities say that radical militia groups have not emerged in Oklahoma, unlike many other states, in part because of the legacy of the Oklahoma City bombing. On April 19, 1995, an anti-government conspiracy led by Army veteran Tim McVeigh exploded a truckbomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people.

Last month, FBI agents conducted a raid on the Hutaree militia group in southern Michigan and accused members of plotting to kill law enforcement officers.

JACKSON, Miss. – Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour drew criticism for proclaiming April as Confederate Heritage Month without mentioning slavery, the second governor this month to come under fire for the omission.

Rep. Robert Johnson, D-Natchez, who is black, said Monday that people need to learn about the "abhorrent, violent, depraved actions of slavery."

Virginia's Republican governor, Bob McDonnell, also named April as Confederate History Month but his original proclamation didn't mention slavery. After coming under national criticism, McDonnell last week revised it to denounce slavery as "evil and inhumane."

Barbour, also a Republican who helped campaign for McDonnell last year, said Sunday on CNN that slavery was bad but a fuss over McDonnell's original proclamation "doesn't amount to diddly."

Barbour's office on Monday did not respond to a request by The Associated Press for a copy of his 2010 Confederate Heritage Month proclamation. The Rev. Cecil Fayard, chaplain in chief for the national Sons of Confederate Veterans, faxed a copy to AP.

The proclamation, signed March 15, said it is "important for all Americans to reflect upon our nation's past to gain insight from our mistakes and successes."

Fayard said he agrees with Barbour's proclamation, which called on Sons of Confederate Veterans and other groups to publicize the "rich heritage" of the Confederacy.

"The War Between the States was fought for the same reasons that the tea party movement today is voicing their opinion. And that is that you have large government that's not listening to the people, there's going to be heavy taxation," Fayard said Monday from his home in Duck Hill, Miss. "And the primary cause of the war was not slavery, although slavery was interwoven into the cause, but it was not the cause for the War Between the States."

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I may be wrong (and I usually am!) but I was under the impression that you lot could only form militias if the British were attacking.

Frazzled wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I may be wrong (and I usually am!) but I was under the impression that you lot could only form militias if the British were attacking.

That is incorrect. Here's the complete list found in the Texas Constitution, to wit militias may be formed to protect against:
*Dern Fereners
*Tribbles
*Leichtensteinians
*Damnyankees (see Dern Fereners)
*Revenuers
*Santa Anna
*Microsoft
*Daleks
*Tom Cruise
*Picante sauce made by Damnyankees
*Vegetarians
*Al Gore

KingCracker wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I may be wrong (and I usually am!) but I was under the impression that you lot could only form militias if the British were attacking.

That is incorrect. Here's the complete list found in the Texas Constitution, to wit militias may be formed to protect against:
*Dern Fereners
*Tribbles
*Leichtensteinians
*Damnyankees (see Dern Fereners)
*Revenuers
*Santa Anna
*Microsoft
*Daleks
*Tom Cruise
*Picante sauce made by Damnyankees
*Vegetarians
*Al Gore

Damn yankees?!

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Opponents of the fiscally conservative tea party movement say they plan to infiltrate and dismantle the political group by trying to make its members appear to be racist, homophobic and moronic.
Jason Levin, creator of http://www.crashtheteaparty.org, said Monday the group has 65 leaders in major cities across the country who are trying to recruit members to infiltrate tea party events for April 15—tax filing day, when tea party groups across the country are planning to gather and protest high taxes.

"Every time we have someone on camera saying that Barack Obama isn't an American citizen, we want someone sitting next to him saying, 'That's right, he's an alien from outer space!'" Levin said.

Tea party members said the backlash comes from ignorance.

"They can't actually debate our message and that's their problem," said Bob MacGuffie, a Connecticut organizer for Right Principles, a tea party group that also has members in New York and New Jersey.

The tea party movement generally unites on the fiscally conservative principles of small government, lower taxes and less spending. Beyond that the ideology of the people involved tends to vary dramatically.

Levin says they want to exaggerate the group's least appealing qualities, further distance the tea party from mainstream America and damage the public's opinion of them.

"Do I think every member of the tea party is a homophobe, racist or a moron? No, absolutely not," Levin said. "Do I think most of them are homophobes, racists or morons? Absolutely."

The site manifesto says they want to dismantle the Tea Party by nonviolent means. "We have already sat quietly in their meetings, and observed their rallies," the site said.

Another tea party organizer said the attempt to destroy the movement was evidence its message is resonating.

"We've been ignored, we've been ridiculed. Well, now they're coming after us," said Judy Pepenella, a co-coordinator for the New York State Tea Party. "Gandhi's quote is one we understand: 'First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.'"

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I may be wrong (and I usually am!) but I was under the impression that you lot could only form militias if the British were attacking.

Frazzled wrote:
Them to, but anyone born north of Waco......

Kilkrazy wrote:This was tried in 1861-5 with results that were not necessarily strongly in favour of the States' Rights supporters.

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Opponents of the fiscally conservative tea party movement say they plan to infiltrate and dismantle the political group by trying to make its members appear to be racist, homophobic and moronic.
Jason Levin, creator of http://www.crashtheteaparty.org, said Monday the group has 65 leaders in major cities across the country who are trying to recruit members to infiltrate tea party events for April 15—tax filing day, when tea party groups across the country are planning to gather and protest high taxes.

"Every time we have someone on camera saying that Barack Obama isn't an American citizen, we want someone sitting next to him saying, 'That's right, he's an alien from outer space!'" Levin said.

Tea party members said the backlash comes from ignorance.

"They can't actually debate our message and that's their problem," said Bob MacGuffie, a Connecticut organizer for Right Principles, a tea party group that also has members in New York and New Jersey.

The tea party movement generally unites on the fiscally conservative principles of small government, lower taxes and less spending. Beyond that the ideology of the people involved tends to vary dramatically.

Levin says they want to exaggerate the group's least appealing qualities, further distance the tea party from mainstream America and damage the public's opinion of them.

"Do I think every member of the tea party is a homophobe, racist or a moron? No, absolutely not," Levin said. "Do I think most of them are homophobes, racists or morons? Absolutely."

The site manifesto says they want to dismantle the Tea Party by nonviolent means. "We have already sat quietly in their meetings, and observed their rallies," the site said.

Another tea party organizer said the attempt to destroy the movement was evidence its message is resonating.

"We've been ignored, we've been ridiculed. Well, now they're coming after us," said Judy Pepenella, a co-coordinator for the New York State Tea Party. "Gandhi's quote is one we understand: 'First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.'"

olympia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:This was tried in 1861-5 with results that were not necessarily strongly in favour of the States' Rights supporters.

Ah yes, but this time the liberals in north that generate the vast majority of wealth for the country will cut the southerners loose without a fight. Biggest mistake in U.S. history was waging a war to keep rednecks part of the country.

Frazzled wrote:

olympia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:This was tried in 1861-5 with results that were not necessarily strongly in favour of the States' Rights supporters.

Ah yes, but this time the liberals in north that generate the vast majority of wealth for the country will cut the southerners loose without a fight. Biggest mistake in U.S. history was waging a war to keep rednecks part of the country.

True statement except that every facet of it is...wrong.
I'll put Texas's 8.2% unemployment against any Yankee state anytime. How's that Rust Belt working out for you?

Frazzled wrote:No point made. You included California. Last I saw California didn't fight for either the stars and bars or the Union flag.

Further, lets compare unemployment rates. Texas superior, yankeeland inferior.

ShumaGorath wrote:This conversation is stupid.

olympia wrote:Texas has two in the top ten on this list!

Ten Places of 100,000 or More Population With the Highest Percentage of People 25 and Over With Less Than
a High School Diploma: 2000
(Data based on sample. For information on confidentiality protection, sampling error, nonsampling error,
and definitions, see www.census.gov/prod/cen2000/doc/sf3.pdf)

East Los Angeles, CA*. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43,452
Santa Ana, CA.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 101,475
El Monte, CA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34,813
Hialeah, FL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78,059
Brownsville, TX. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36,762
Miami, FL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 119,435
Laredo, TX . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42,426
Pomona, CA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35,529
Salinas, CA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37,185
Newark, NJ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69,135

"They can't actually debate our message and that's their problem," said Bob MacGuffie

ShumaGorath wrote:This conversation is stupid.

Frazzled wrote:No point made. You included California. Last I saw California didn't fight for either the stars and bars or the Union flag.

Frazzled wrote:How's that Rust Belt working out for you?

ShumaGorath wrote:

olympia wrote:Texas has two in the top ten on this list!

Ten Places of 100,000 or More Population With the Highest Percentage of People 25 and Over With Less Than
a High School Diploma: 2000
(Data based on sample. For information on confidentiality protection, sampling error, nonsampling error,
and definitions, see www.census.gov/prod/cen2000/doc/sf3.pdf)

East Los Angeles, CA*. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43,452
Santa Ana, CA.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 101,475
El Monte, CA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34,813
Hialeah, FL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78,059
Brownsville, TX. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36,762
Miami, FL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 119,435
Laredo, TX . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42,426
Pomona, CA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35,529
Salinas, CA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37,185
Newark, NJ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69,135

In fairness immigration rates and minority graduation issues kind of skew that.