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brush_slip wrote:I dont know if this was previously stated, but, consider the fact that historical models. World War 2 models to be exact, are entirely accurate representations of the SS, Nazi, and even Hitler. These companies produce these not only in an effort to resemble historical figures and times, but to be painted and displayed. I love doing German armor from time to time, have quite a lot of tanks. I was always a bit hesitant of doing a nazi flag to hand over some, but it is HISTORICALLY accurate.

In my opinion Warhammer is no different, especially if your not doing any Nazi symbolism.

Some may be offended, but then they would have to be offended by entire corporations for producing the real german officers and nazi regime in 1/35 scale. Companies like Verlinden, Tamyia, Dragon, jaguar. HUGE corporations that have been around longer than even GW.

There are NO minis of Hitler his top echelon or his cronies amongst the work of the companies you mention.

Wermacht and SS vehicles and units, yes (But no SS Sonder Kommandos). The architects of Sobibor, Treblinka, Auschwitz? no.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Very few if any companies will actually produce kits with swastikas afaik. Certainly don't for aircraft. One of the main reasons being export to Europe. In Germany the display of that cross is illegal unless in a specifically historical context. iirc, for some reason, display on models doesn't count as histoical context.

I don't think it can be displayed on minis. Game sites based out of Germany ask that images of minis/artworks with the Swastika and other associated imagery be edited to remove them.

Jaguar models Here, hitler and his right hand man.

Verlinden DOES have one as well.

brush_slip wrote:Jaguar models Here, hitler and his right hand man.

Verlinden DOES have one as well.

Bloody hell! I apologise.

I have never really had cause to to look for these before.

Its ok, you find a lot when you get into military modeling.

Taking this further then could people have a problem with my Imperial Guard Marauder painted up in sort of RAF Night bomber scheme, it has the typival black underside with dark green and dark brown upper surfaces and the vertical fins are yellow. Bomber command commited its own atrocities, just look at the fire bombing of Dresden.

I also have a Thunderbolt done up in a highly polished silver finish with a blue nose area like a famous WWII Mustang unit.

Hi Brush Slip

Interestingly a quick google shows Hitler had the arm band on his unifrom, but this has been ommited.

Goering obviously thought the armband would clash with the colour of his coat.

Aye up Ollie! Are you saying the IG's have B-26's and P-47's?!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Aye up Ollie! Are you saying the IG's have B-26's and P-47's?!

Nope Lancasters and P51s.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Hi Brush Slip

Interestingly a quick google shows Hitler had the arm band on his unifrom, but this has been ommited.

Probably so that they can display the web page in Germany.

Same reason a lot of PC games omit the Swastika, which, ironically, is actually a Hindi symbol. Guess any German Hindus will have to get by without it.

brush_slip wrote:Jaguar models Here, hitler and his right hand man.

Verlinden DOES have one as well.

I think I've just found some objective markers..

The swastika is older than Hinduism
by a very long way

Only unPC games have swastikas

JohnHwangDD wrote:@OP: they're your minis, and you can do what you like.

That said, IMO, you're deliberately, and unnecessarily, treading on Nazi ground with your color and scheme choices as described in your post.

To my mind, it seems what you're really asking is whether people would be cool if you were to field a Early War Nazi German homage army.

At tabletop distances, those armbands are going to look *exactly* like Nazi swastika armbands, and you know it. If I have to get right up to the model to see that the rank insignia is actually a Neo-Nazi pseudo-swastika, that's simply not cool.

...

If you don't need to field Nazis, then a palette swap is in order. Bright yellow or orange armbands are just as effectively eye-catching on grey. Or you can swap the uniform from grey to olive drab green. Or, you can move away from Nazi-style armbands to use contrasting shoulderpads or helmets, like most IG players do.

The color scheme was chosen for an urban camo. And I'm pretty sure the symbol on the sample armband I provided was that of a US Army Sergeant, not some neo-nazi symbology. The symbol would correspond with RANK of the figure, so would change a lot through the army.

And again, the army is not nazi themed.

But thank you for the mention of orange. I had not even thought about using it and I do believe you're right in that it will also do a fine job standing out. I'll give it a try as well, because should give me the effect I want without stepping on anyone's toes.

darkdm wrote:But thank you for the mention of orange. I had not even thought about using it and I do believe you're right in that it will also do a fine job standing out. I'll give it a try as well, because should give me the effect I want without stepping on anyone's toes.

Well, you might anger Nazi-lovers then, as Orange was the colour of the armbands worn by Dutch Resistance

All kidding aside, I just want to see some pictures!

I don't see the big deal. I mean, the Imperial Guard already resembles the Red Army of that time period and we all know that Stalin was not exactly a nice guy. Also, I'd find it ironic for someone to hate on an army that somewhat resembles nazis when everyone loves the DKoK models... hell, you can even PLAY as nazis in FoW. All in all, any intelligent gamer would probably be perfectly fine with it.

Seriously people, is the problem the colours or people wanting to claim a direct personal tie to something that I doubt anybody who currently plays experienced personally?

So no problem when I make a bright pink Nazi army with the swastikas then. Right?(Got the idea ftom the Hello kitty comment from the other page.)

SamplesoWoopass wrote:All in all, any intelligent gamer would probably be perfectly fine with it.

The problem we're having is that there are plenty of un-intelligent gamers that wouldn't be fine with it. It's too bad Natural Selection can only kill off so many idiots every year. Methinks the world would be a much happier place without folks being over-sensitive about everything under the sun.

RiTides wrote:I guess they're not as infamous, focusedfire- history is not my strong suit, but I'd never heard of them, so it didn't affect me as I had no idea what they are!

Soviet atrocities are no where near as infamous because they were a part of the winning side during the war. We all know that history is written in the perspective of the winners. The bottom line is that the Soviets under Stalin killed at least 20 million in their camps, which is as much as 8 million more than the Nazis. The Chinese under Mao put between 40-60 million to death.

I would have no problem facing an army painted like any of these big three badies of modern history, so long as my opponent was spouting off racist rhetoric whichever fascist empire his troops were representing.

A friend of mine did his steel legion IG army in the style of the Confederate States of America. He is a history buff and is a huge fan of General Robert E. Lee. His army contains 3 squads of rough riders to represent Lee's cavalry. They were beautiful conversions made from empire outriders. He has a fantastic tattered banner painted up like the stars and bars. In certain contexts some people can be offended by seeing the confederate flag, but not really at the game table. It's a really nice looking historically inspired army that is a pleasure to look at across the table.

I've heard tell, second-hand, of an Empire army that used all halfling models painted black and modified a bit, carrying around banners that were a big white-teeth/black-lips image on a watermelon. 'Pygmies'.

Too far?

SamplesoWoopass wrote:I don't see the big deal. I mean, the Imperial Guard already resembles the Red Army of that time period and we all know that Stalin was not exactly a nice guy. Also, I'd find it ironic for someone to hate on an army that somewhat resembles nazis when everyone loves the DKoK models... hell, you can even PLAY as nazis in FoW. All in all, any intelligent gamer would probably be perfectly fine with it.

Lolwut?

Death Korps of Krieg are modeled after WW1 French forces, with a touch of the Kaiser's troops in there. There's no "Nazi" influence in there.

And how in the hell do the Imperial Guard in any way, shape, or form resemble the Red Army? They both use masses of troops.

My God, stop the presses. It's almost like there's no armies in the world that have massive numbers of troops.

For me I could care less if someone does a Space Nazi's conversion comeplete with swastikas and a Hitler company comander...as long as it's done well On the other hand if they come in with a vanilla Ultramarines army, but are sporting Brotherhood tats I'll probably elect not to play them. For me it's about the player, not the minis.

I dont care As long as there re no swasticas or ss badges everyone should be cool

Somewhat related: GW specifically prohibits the use of any models in their store or tournies that display any sort of Nazi symbolism. Yes, this even includes the old Ork Stormboys with the SS symbol-looking "lightning bolts" on their hats.

I can't help but remember that Simpsons episode with Sideshow Bob printing out the 'Die Bart Die' license plates and when being quizzed on it, he says, 'No, that was just, The Bart, The!'

No one that speaks german could be bad!

Mr. Burning wrote:

brush_slip wrote:I dont know if this was previously stated, but, consider the fact that historical models. World War 2 models to be exact, are entirely accurate representations of the SS, Nazi, and even Hitler. These companies produce these not only in an effort to resemble historical figures and times, but to be painted and displayed. I love doing German armor from time to time, have quite a lot of tanks. I was always a bit hesitant of doing a nazi flag to hand over some, but it is HISTORICALLY accurate.

In my opinion Warhammer is no different, especially if your not doing any Nazi symbolism.

Some may be offended, but then they would have to be offended by entire corporations for producing the real german officers and nazi regime in 1/35 scale. Companies like Verlinden, Tamyia, Dragon, jaguar. HUGE corporations that have been around longer than even GW.

There are NO minis of Hitler his top echelon or his cronies amongst the work of the companies you mention.

Wermacht and SS vehicles and units, yes (But no SS Sonder Kommandos). The architects of Sobibor, Treblinka, Auschwitz? no.

Guten Tag!

Kanluwen wrote:Death Korps of Krieg are modeled after WW1 German forces, with a touch of the Kaiser's troops in there. There's no "Nazi" influence in there.

Fix'd for ya

But yes, no "Nazi" amongst the Kreig. The M35 tyle helmet was adopted around the midpoint of the first world war. I think that's where folks are confusing Kreig with Nazis. Suprisingly, most folks still think that WWI German Troops used the Kaiser Helmet as standard iss right up to the end of the war. Fact is, it was pretty much confined to parade grounds when the new design came out

hungryp wrote:Somewhat related: GW specifically prohibits the use of any models in their store or tournies that display any sort of Nazi symbolism. Yes, this even includes the old Ork Stormboys with the SS symbol-looking "lightning bolts" on their hats.

This is all the motivation that most of us need to make just such an army.


What do you guys think, "Pink Hello Kitty Nazis or Raindow Care Bear Nazis?

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I've heard tell, second-hand, of an Empire army that used all halfling models painted black and modified a bit, carrying around banners that were a big white-teeth/black-lips image on a watermelon. 'Pygmies'.

You sure those weren't the OOP Citadel Pygmies from way back when?

But yeah, it's gratuitous.

I'd love to see what happens after the event if he gets paired up with the right opponent.

I think there's a difference between having models looking a bit like nazis and actually painting swastikas on your imperial guard. Having vaguely nazi like symbolism is ok, hell a fair bit of imperial stuff is like that before you start painting it. But why would someone specifically choose to paint swastikas on their models? It's far too fluff breaking and would always look like it was done to shock rather than anything else. There's no kind of clever inspiration going on, it's not particularly insightful, it's just trying to be controversial for the sake of it. Not cool. I think there's a clear difference between having an army that reflects WW2 german styles and one which the person has painted swastikas on it. In science fiction the bad guys often look like nazis because they are a shorthand for evil, but they don't actually wear swastikas it should be more thoughtful than that. Someone painting swastikas straight onto their figures for a reaction from other players is deeply childish, like the kid that smirks at his own farts as he inflicts them upon others.

Mr. Burning wrote:

brush_slip wrote:Jaguar models Here, hitler and his right hand man.

Verlinden DOES have one as well.

Bloody hell! I apologise.

I have never really had cause to to look for these before.

I though Tamiya did do one in plastic in a pack with some other figures, he was wearing a trench coat as though he's visiting troops in the field.

Also...

Andrea Miniatures do an Adolph Hitler

Hasegawa did Hitler in his car in 1/72nd, still available now but they don't include the swastikas.
http://gregers.7.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=11245&sid=1db4959e9849303daddd29010090074e

I also have this old and rare kit in 1/35th.
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/tilt/kit_tilt_merc.shtml

And, though not a plastic kit, I also had a box of Atlantic toy soldiers for a Nuremberg rally!!! No really, look about half way down the page after Mussolini's black shirts but before Chairman Mao...
http://www.toysoldier.freeuk.com/revolt.htm

And finally, West Wind Miniatures do a Hitler.

Mini's are easy, if someone is offended...they don't have to play you!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I've heard tell, second-hand, of an Empire army that used all halfling models painted black and modified a bit, carrying around banners that were a big white-teeth/black-lips image on a watermelon. 'Pygmies'.

You sure those weren't the OOP Citadel Pygmies from way back when?

But yeah, it's gratuitous.

I'd love to see what happens after the event if he gets paired up with the right opponent.

I am not, in fact, sure. Searched around, saw models of those. Might've been them.

Not that it matters too much either way, heh.