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Not sure what the point is in arguing such an obvious tactical fallacy.. but im bored so!

If you dont use rhinos you'll get assaulted first and die by those who do use transports. Foot slogging hasn't been very good for a long time and there is a reason. More movement > less movement. If youre talking about jump pack BA thats something different but it seems that we arent

With all of my armies I love see no transport army as all it says is that they'll be too slow to react.. and generally will just die

of course rhinoes are great!

When I play my gunline marines, it takes me a turn of shooting to usually pop most of the transports, saving the guys inside from being all shot up.

as my mech marines, transports make it hard to put my templates on people.

and as my DE, I got to be much more careful when going forward, for a botched lance shot could leave one of my extremely fragile units in the open.

when i see foot marines, I know I already won.

The OP obviously doesn't play sm. The rhino is the pasta course of the sm buffet, a solid base to get you started.

Wow... this means I'll have scrap all my trukks and go full greentide... :(

Yeah... please field those landraiders, my deffrollas and klaws would like a piece of that

Calling all trasports minus a LR useless...
I smell something...troll scented...

ChocolateGork wrote:
1 in three games only.

And in tournaments that tends to be a figure more in favour of the rhino.

They can contest quite well.

They are nearly immune to most small arms fire.

They can tank shock units off of/ away from objectives and your units.

They can block off potential routes the enemy could take.

They can make low LD units cheese it

They cost as much as two marines

There storm bolters while unimpressive can do some damage.

They are very good for target saturation.

They can provide cover for non transport capable units.

They can sit themselves in front of enemy heavy weapons or just a squad of infantry and force them to destroy it/ try to destroy it or waste movement going around it.
This works very well with putting several rhinos in a line in front of an enemy unit making them waste time and turns before they can do something except kill your cheap tanks.

Thank you, this is what I wanted. Reading so much crap people posted started to become really depressing, thank you very much.

Kilkrazy wrote:It is very interesting that here is a thread about how crappy Rhinos are, while in 40K General Discussion there is a thread about 6th edition, and most people are saying vehicles are too good and need to be toned down.

Funny how the internet works, right Mr. Killkrazy?

Its still Christmas here, so merry Christmas!

phantommaster wrote:I find large amounts of Razorbacks very helpful. They enemy can survive against BA when you have 4 or 5 TL Assault Cannons on fast vehicles, and thats without my Baal Predators.

Yes! Is much happy for win that makes old army better them not so big win as other which done yet instead. Is like 5 or 6 of ha ha LOL myself not so much goody them good happy make Baal Predators like ninja in deployment!

think something got lost in translation there

...oh... sorry. You meant 'can't survive' . What a shock, a Blood Angel player who just takes on assumption that everything in his army is bigger, faster, better, and more threatening than everything he surveys. Codex like that always draw the finest minds.

The Assault Cannon Razor thing can seem nasty when you consider that they are like rhinos that bite, but they are also twice as expensive, just as fragile, and DEFINITELY fall under the target priority category.

General rules for target priority:

Can it hurt you and is easy to kill? #1 kill it!!! (razor)
Can it hurt you and is hard to kill? #2 kill it when you can, otherwise try to stay away from it (land raider)
does it not hurt much but is easy to kill? #3 kill it when you get the chance (rhino)
does it not hurt much but hard to kill? #4 just stay away from it and worry about more potentially dangerous threats (footsloggers).

On a point for point basis land raiders are far more fragile than rhinos.

How many melta gun shots does it take to destroy 1 land raider?

How many melta gun shots does it take to destroy 7 rhinos?

7 rhinos cost less than 1 barebones land raider.

darkmarine wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:
1 in three games only.

And in tournaments that tends to be a figure more in favour of the rhino.

They can contest quite well.

They are nearly immune to most small arms fire.

They can tank shock units off of/ away from objectives and your units.

They can block off potential routes the enemy could take.

They can make low LD units cheese it

They cost as much as two marines

There storm bolters while unimpressive can do some damage.

They are very good for target saturation.

They can provide cover for non transport capable units.

They can sit themselves in front of enemy heavy weapons or just a squad of infantry and force them to destroy it/ try to destroy it or waste movement going around it.
This works very well with putting several rhinos in a line in front of an enemy unit making them waste time and turns before they can do something except kill your cheap tanks.

Thank you, this is what I wanted. Reading so much crap people posted started to become really depressing, thank you very much.

NoP OP (Im so funny)

They are useful (sadly near mandatory in a competitive environment). But it would still be fun to run a list without them. You would just have a harder time, but save yourself a lot of money (In aus they cost more dollars than they cost in points) and feel more fulfilled if you won. without them.

schadenfreude wrote:On a point for point basis land raiders are far more fragile than rhinos.

How many melta gun shots does it take to destroy 1 land raider?

How many melta gun shots does it take to destroy 7 rhinos?

7 rhinos cost less than 1 barebones land raider.

On the other hand, how many missile launcher, autocannon, deffgun, battle cannon or similar shots does it take to kill a rhino compared to a land raider?

But when that rhino goes, you....hop into another rhino!

Look we all know they're a liability in killpoint missions, so drop them off at the back edge of the board and march forward.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:On a point for point basis land raiders are far more fragile than rhinos.

How many melta gun shots does it take to destroy 1 land raider?

How many melta gun shots does it take to destroy 7 rhinos?

7 rhinos cost less than 1 barebones land raider.

On the other hand, how many missile launcher, autocannon, deffgun, battle cannon or similar shots does it take to kill a rhino compared to a land raider?

Land raiders are immune to S7 shtos, but that doesn't make them tougher on a point for point basis. That's a lot like saying rhinos are more durable than th/ss termies when fighting ig bewcause the rhino is completely immune to the dreaded ig flashlight. We all know what the ugly truth is, other players will use whatever weapon is ideal foe the target in question. Rhinos will eat krak and/or ac while land raiders get meltad.

I stand by my point.

How many turns will it take a pack of long fangs or a mob of lootas to destroy 7 rhinos?

How many turns will it take a squad of fire dragons or a quad melta ccs to destroy a land raider?

REALLY? Don't cry about Rhinos.

ive gotten to the point where i dont even bother with transport tanks anymore. i simply deepstrike whatever needs to be moved forward, or run it up behind my advancing armor. granted i play guard, and in guard, life is cheap.... extremely cheap. where as marines cannot usually afford to take several turns of shooting.

i think rhinos while effective to a point are more or less the first thing any good player will target with high strength weaponry. therefore, drop pods would seem the better choice. they dont really scatter, put your units where you want almost on demand, and provide an extra target for the enemy once they're set.

in my experience of playing as, and against marines is as follows: if you make a marine player footslog, and disable his heavies (especially his tank killers), you can more or less chew him up quite easily. however, if he deepstrikes, and chooses his targets wisely, it's pretty hard to beat him back.

i've been playing this game for 10 years, and one fo the MAIN reasons i quit playing marines is because rhinos were not worth it, however their speed was. my only thing is i'd rather my units not have to save on every model if the enemy gets one single good shot and pops my transport.

darkmarine wrote:Maybe I have just had really bad personal experience with them, but anytime I go to tourneys (at least at my local place) they require you to carry th same list throughout the tournament, this said, when facing multiple opponents with the same list, theres a good chance that you'll play a few, if not one, games of annihilation. I dont want to risk getting taken out the last rounds because of a few rhinos that do nothig for me. It is not worth doubling the speed of a few of my troops if it means I will lose 1/3 of the games because of it. Rhinos would be great if it wasnt for being worth a kill point, but they are, and not worth it to me. I would rather have my troops get there in three turns after taking fire from a few flashlights then hopping in a rhino, moving for one turn, get pinned, then get there in the same amount of timee and lose a kill point, but like I said, just my view.
To recap:
Shield and speed for troops=good
a whole kp designated in armor11=bad and hinders your ability to win 1/3 of games.

If you're losing games based soley on the fact that your rhinos give up too many points, you may want to reconsider your list instead of knocking an entire unit. Rhinos play an essential strategy in almost every SM list I have either used or played against. That being said, of course they will be easy KPs, they're only 35 base points. You essentially dislike a unit that seems to be such a key part of your army, because you give up so many KPs with them, because of one game type. That's the fun of the game, strategizing when the unknown happens. However next time you play a KP game I suggest you not take rhinos and see how it turns up. Unless you drastically change your list I promise you it will end poorly. Or, try and save yourself a few headaches and play with strategy in where your rhinos end up/are going once they drop their cargo off.

If he thinks Rhinos suck, then Drop Pods must really suck.

Stormrider wrote:If he thinks Rhinos suck, then Drop Pods must really suck.

No way man, they are armor 12! which is better than AV11. Who moves their guys anyways?

Honestly I think the OP is A: trolling B: not very good at the game. Or C: needs to find an army to fit his playstyle (which sounds like a static shooting one, maybe guard?)

I like rhinos for the sheer "Annoying" factor. Being a total pest to my oppponent by putting a wall of boxes between me and him can be funny. While I don't like excessive use of rhinos/mech, they often will be a necessity in your marine lists.

Guard isnt as static as people make it out to be. In fifth edition guard has taken on whole new forms of play. some things are still pretty static but for the most part. Besides, who moves a leman russ 12" anyways.

movement has come to guard in a big way.

Dice_Junkie wrote:Guard isnt as static as people make it out to be. In fifth edition guard has taken on whole new forms of play. some things are still pretty static but for the most part. Besides, who moves a leman russ 12" anyways.

movement has come to guard in a big way.

I've only waited two editions for it

And on the day that the troll spaketh Dakka bit and bit 3 pages worth.

Meh.

I think that for newer players this ie actually worthwhile reading.

Monster Rain wrote:Meh.

I think that for newer players this ie actually worthwhile reading.

If only so that they are disabused of the notion that rhinos and drop pods, the most common way that a marine army gets mobility, are a bad choice.

Lord PoPo wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Meh.

I think that for newer players this ie actually worthwhile reading.

If only so that they are disabused of the notion that rhinos and drop pods, the most common way that a marine army gets mobility, are a bad choice.

Exactly!

People gave so many examples to the contrary that I think this was a pretty decent tactica, all in all.

Which made me wonder about what armies they field. And, perhaps more importantly, what armies their friends field that allow them to get away with a relative lack of mobility.

I said to myself that I will not post on this, but hell...

When I started playing wh40k, I had few footslugging marines, termies and captain... And I must say that my tacticals were the most useless unit in the whole 40k universe then... Never managed to flame those damn boyz before they charged me, never was in 12'' to rapid fire, nothing... Never managed to assault anything and they were just so damn expensive...
And then, the amazing thing happened! My first rhinos... Bought two at the same time, and boy did my army started to be better... Suddenly, I was able to use flamer EVERY time and counter assault mostly anything... Drive, disembark and rapid fire... Tank shock that stupid little squads off the table, stay within 6'' of the fall back unit so that it runs more and more, block los to my squads so that they don't die... And all that for 35pts and kill pts... And tell you what... It's totally worth it

So Darkmarine, I remember your threads and your models... As I mentioned, you have not a single rhino... Well, get some and try them out yourself and you'll be the first one to praise one of the best transports in the whole 40k universe