The Big-E's name?

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**Micromegas**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Martin Sue.

You're a baaaaad man.

**Laodamia**

Maybe the Emperor kept in a little diary the list of aaaaaall the names he had over his long life.

Maybe it is kept right under his throne...

That would be cool IMO.

I guess the High Lords keep the existence of this little diary secret because some of his names are ridiculous.

**EmilCrane**

In prospero burns its revealed that he has a name but no one gets to know it because names have power and revealing your name allows someone to control you.

**Laodamia**

EmilCrane wrote:In prospero burns its revealed that he has a name but no one gets to know it because names have power and revealing your name allows someone to control you.

Yes, I remember reading that.

But I simply consider it as really bad fluff writing from Abnett. It simply doesn't make any sense IMO.

**case013**

kind of puts an end to getting a true name for him

**EmilCrane**

Laodamia wrote:
EmilCrane wrote:In prospero burns its revealed that he has a name but no one gets to know it because names have power and revealing your name allows someone to control you.

Yes, I remember reading that.

But I simply consider it as really bad fluff writing from Abnett. It simply doesn't make any sense IMO.

I don't think its that bad, Abnett's portrayal of psyker power is a lot better than some

This power that we never get to know much about that can do horrible things to you, much better than choosing some random power from a list

**case013**

Laodamia wrote:
EmilCrane wrote:In prospero burns its revealed that he has a name but no one gets to know it because names have power and revealing your name allows someone to control you.

Yes, I remember reading that.

But I simply consider it as really bad fluff writing from Abnett. It simply doesn't make any sense IMO.

lets try to stay away from the whole bad fluff writing comments or before you know it we'll be knee deep in C.S. Goto and Matt Ward comments.

**Laodamia**

case013 wrote:
Laodamia wrote:
EmilCrane wrote:In prospero burns its revealed that he has a name but no one gets to know it because names have power and revealing your name allows someone to control you.

Yes, I remember reading that.

But I simply consider it as really bad fluff writing from Abnett. It simply doesn't make any sense IMO.

lets try to stay away from the whole bad fluff writing comments or before you know it we'll be knee deep in C.S. Goto and Matt Ward comments.

Agreed.

So, from what I had from all these comments. Big E had a name. But we don't know it any more.

Do you think he still knew it by M29? If yes, why would he keep it secret?

**case013**

i think once he realized what he was and who he was to become he just dropped his name realizing that it would not matter. i mean if he lived for so long and manipulated so much he probably had a million names and personas to fill in whatever roll he was playing at the moment. A great masked conspirator shaping everything for his rise to power.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

The emperor's name is ...Legion, for he has been many..

(creepy huh?

)

**case013**

AAAHHHH the horrible Ghost Rider movie popped into my head when you said that. get it out get it out *grabs a power drill*

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

that was a horrible movie..sorry ( applies advanced Tau nano-probe movie review bots to Case013's head to relieve the pain of yet another Nicholas Cage bomb. )

There I hope thats better.

**case013**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:that was a horrible movie..sorry ( applies advanced Tau nano-probe movie review bots to Case013's head to relieve the pain of yet another Nicholas Cage bomb. )

There I hope thats better.

yes much better thank you

havent liked that guy since face off and thats because John Travolta was a freaking awesome villain

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

his only good movie was "raising Arizona" that and the movie had the closest thing to a Ork biker I had seen

to get back on topic..

The emperor's real name is ....Bruce ( in all his iterations, Lee, Campbell, Willis, etc. )

**case013**

sweet jesus....i mean sweet bruce

**xXSir MontyXx**

his name is Mesuahases; A combination of Muhammed, buddah, jesus, and moses!

**Conservationist**

No wonder space marines change thier names when they actually become marines. So as to prevent controlling. Makes me wonder about Primarchs though.

I suppose the Emperor would be named after somebody not directly involved in the running of whatevertheyaresupposedtorun. It could be the wife of Jesus, or Muhammads wife, since behind every 'great' man there is a woman. For all you know with his great psychic powers, he could change sex as easily as he changes his underwear.

**case013**

Conservationist wrote:No wonder space marines change thier names when they actually become marines. So as to prevent controlling. Makes me wonder about Primarchs though.

I suppose the Emperor would be named after somebody not directly involved in the running of whatevertheyaresupposedtorun. It could be the wife of Jesus, or Muhammads wife, since behind every 'great' man there is a woman. For all you know with his great psychic powers, he could change sex as easily as he changes his underwear.

Wait but dont the SW in the book still get controlled even though they have changed their names from what they were before they became full battle brothers? Because if im not mistaken the daemon was using their SW names if Prospero Burns. I've heard about the whole not giving real name thing from other sources but cant remember at the moment. Plus not all chapters change their names either.

**Conservationist**

Then wouldnt space marines be easily controlled and all and defeat the purpose of '' The Imperium's Greatest Warriors''? This is weird... Chaos could just control every single one of them... I could say Marneus! Clean the floor! Dante! Wash the dishes and You! Logan! Stop staring into this air, you want me to whip you? Go and mow the lawn now!

**case013**

That's exactly what Im thinking. If all a daemon has to do is pull a name that's attached to that marine out of his mind then all of a sudden he's a meat puppet. The whole thing works great with daemons because it's so difficult to get their true name. But not so much vice versa on humans. you can summon a demon by it's false name but cant control it and be master unless you have it's true name. Hmm gotta put more thought into this. Sorry if it's a lil off topic

**BaronIveagh**

Brother Coa wrote:Nobody know's his name, like nobody knows the gods name today.
Christ is son and God is father and nobody knows his name. The same thing is with the Emperor.

Um, It's Joshua and YHVH respectively, as I recall. Christ is a title, and Jesus is a transliteration into Greek of the Hebrew name Joshua.

**Conservationist**

Now then, what is YHVH

**BaronIveagh**

Conservationist wrote:Now then, what is YHVH

Yahweh though the exact pronunciation is questionable. Formerly a minor Canaanite Storm god, his worship was common in the southern regions of the middle east, until he became the 'official' deity of the royal house of the kingdom of Judah. Originally sharing the kingdom with a pantheon of deities, the worship of these was banned shortly before the fall of Judah to Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

Micromegas wrote:@RandomEvilguy
Alright, I thought you were just pure trolling. I suppose I am a bit over-zealous at times about religion. Sorry for coming off ass-like. However, I still hold my stance that religion has enabled for horrible acts to take place.

Fair enough.

You may be correct, I don't think the Emperor was birthed as a human would be though. Perhaps, something akin to a Chaos god?

I don't know how he could have manifested though, especially considering his power.

case013 wrote:Wait but dont the SW in the book still get controlled even though they have changed their names from what they were before they became full battle brothers? Because if im not mistaken the daemon was using their SW names if Prospero Burns.

While I haven't read Prospero Burns, I would assume that very few daemons (is it possible for normal psykers to do it in the same manner?) have the ability to do it. Otherwise it doesn't really seem to make much sense, especially when you have Greater Daemon's that have grudges against specific Space Marines. Could it possibly have something to do with the relative power between the two? From what I've heard the daemon from Prospero Burns was supposed to be very powerful and able to cloak his presence exceptionally well.

**case013**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

case013 wrote:Wait but dont the SW in the book still get controlled even though they have changed their names from what they were before they became full battle brothers? Because if im not mistaken the daemon was using their SW names if Prospero Burns.

While I haven't read Prospero Burns, I would assume that very few daemons (is it possible for normal psykers to do it in the same manner?) have the ability to do it. Otherwise it doesn't really seem to make much sense, especially when you have Greater Daemon's that have grudges against specific Space Marines. Could it possibly have something to do with the relative power between the two? From what I've heard the daemon from Prospero Burns was supposed to be very powerful and able to cloak his presence exceptionally well.

Thanks for joining the discussion about that part. I really wanna work this out to a logical end and not have it just be fluff the author decided would be cool. maybe that is part of it that only a few are capable of it name sorcery, but to conflict that the whole story hints and pushes that a name is a powerful thing. like any "spirit" who knows your name has control over you. I completely agree with you because if all a daemon needed was a name then basically the whole 40k universe would come crashing down.

I do like the relative power idea. but the daemon they fight is very powerful and a master manipulator and

Spoiler:

I can feel a re-reading of that book coming on.

**Platuan4th**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Micromegas wrote:

You may be correct, I don't think the Emperor was birthed as a human would be though. Perhaps, something akin to a Chaos god?

I don't know how he could have manifested though, especially considering his power.

There's 2 theories.

1. That he was born like any other human

2. A large group of Shaman gathered and sacrificed themselves, their powers coalescing into a physical being with a culmination of their powers.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

case013 wrote:
Thanks for joining the discussion about that part.

You're welcome.

I completely agree with you because if all a daemon needed was a name then basically the whole 40k universe would come crashing down.

It certainly would.

I do like the relative power idea. but the daemon they fight is very powerful and a master manipulator and

Spoiler:

In the wide scope He is one of the daemons that have been helping Horus into manipulating the civil war. it's not that he has a certain grudge against the SW(or it doesnt seem that way from what he says) he just happened to be the one that is tasked with driving the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons to blows(and does he ever do a great job of that). He freely admits impersonating members of each to sow discord and mistrust and feeding their fear and mistrust of each other by showing them what that want to believe the other is. A warp tainted sorcerer and a barbarian with no use for knowledge but that on how to kill

Spoiler:

Platuan4th wrote:1. That he was born like any other human

Would this imply that the way any human is born is by the warp presence being first rather than created by the conception of the child, or would this necessitate the Emperor effectively killing a baby to replace it's soul in the womb?

2. A large group of Shaman gathered and sacrificed themselves, their powers coalescing into a physical being with a culmination of their powers.

I just don't understand how such a powerful force would be able to gain entry into the Materium in the first place. I mean, the Emperor seems unparalleled in psychic power - even the Eldar can't use their full potential for fear of Slaanesh, but the Emperor apparently does not fear the Chaos Gods in the same way.

Isn't there a third theory that he's an Old One? Or has that been disproved?

**SuperSonicDuke**

That would be a fantastic idea, Big E is an Old One, making Mankind in his own image?

**case013**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Spoiler:

Isn't there the implication that he was the Primordial Annihilator from Legion? Either that or presumably a daemon of Tzeentch (or possibly an unaffilated one?) Still, the power of the name doesn't seem consistent throughout the setting, so I think that (if we remove the whole author just putting it in angle) it must be present only in certain circumstances. Has the power of the name over mortals been mentioned in any other works?

The main possible explanations I can think of are either it's unique to this particular daemon (or theoretically, a minor Chaos God?) and possibly a few others, or the name only allows you to do it you have sufficient power anyway (as in, without the name a daemon might not be able to identify their soul (or something) and so be unable to take control of them).

Spoiler:

**Platuan4th**

SuperSonicDuke wrote:That would be a fantastic idea, Big E is an Old One, making Mankind in his own image?

Shhh! Not everyone takes a shine to the ideas put forth by Xenology.

Spoiler: