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In the cain books he leads a mixed regiment and they join up with the remnants of a female armored regiment.

Cadians make sense as they wouldn't put that much manpower to waste on a fortress world. Although ive never seen or heard mention of a female cadian.

But i have never, ever heard mention of. Or seen a picture of a female catachan. And the thought is a bit disturbing.

Like I said before, there are two Space Marine legions that are missing and deleted from Imperial records. Who's to say they weren't all female? Honestly some of the female marine haters sound like people that would have deleted the records. Even in the 41st century they are still hating on female marines.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:I think it's a good idea in principle. What I doubt is GW's capability to make decent female minis.

My thoughts ran along the same lines upon seeing the title for this thread.

Have you seen the new Wyches? They've given me hope for some decent female models.

cyrax777 wrote:Nids breeding cold just be some sort of asexual breeding like a plant. I would like to see more female models thu just for variety.

Chaos could get cultists SM.

As for female space marines I dont know my fluff so i am completly lost when people state no female space marines it is simply a case of women not getting geneseed implants or are they is geneseed implant not taking do to the lack of the y chromosome?

Many plants have sexual reproduction.

The current fluff states that the geneseed implants are incompatible with female physiology.

Scientifically this is nonsense, of course. It is merely a convenient excuse not to make any female Space Marines.

The two missing Primarchs and the general nature of fluff mean that GW could introduce female SMs if they wanted to. However it would require the timeline to be advanced, which is unlikely to happen.

Kilkrazy wrote:
The current fluff states that the geneseed implants are incompatible with female physiology.

Deleted info from history could say differently...but just like you said, it is a convenient excuse.

Kilkrazy wrote:
The two missing Primarchs and the general nature of fluff mean that GW could introduce female SMs if they wanted to. However it would require the timeline to be advanced, which is unlikely to happen.

But that doesn't stop people from using the two missing legions in whatever way they choose right? There is enough room in the fluff to say there would be female marines. Just having information "deleted" is enough for me. Who's to say what that info was?

They have never provided a decent reason why they were deleted anyways. If it was because of chaos then they would have been along the lines of Death Guard, etc. Like I said before, the dislike of the mention of female marines sounds awfully similar to someone deleted info about the lost legions.

it would require a complete fluff overhaul for GW to introduce female marines.


Besides, in the HH books they do make reference to the missing primarchs and it is always as referring to a brother.

the only way you could get Female marines would be to have a Female Primarch so thats kinda out the window.




and why do people want female space marines anyway? it can't be for the looks because, unlike all those disgusting anime drawings, a Female that was genehanced and altered for war would probably end up looking like those female body builders(IE: no female physique or shape left)

Grey Templar wrote:a Female that was genehanced and altered for war would probably end up looking like those female body builders(IE: no female physique or shape left)

The 'Good'
The Bad
The you-gee-el-why, you ain't got no alibi...

Personally, I think GW completely Whiffed on the fluff for orks. They are basically mycota spores that turn into a living breathing organism? I have never read an ork codex, but someone is going to have to explain to me how a plant cell becomes and animal cell. And if they dont reproduce, why do they have nips? There is/was a key moment where GW could have incorporated more women models (those being orks) into their lineup, instead they opted for the worst background of any army. Spores...what a joke. I think they should leave it as it is. If they want to cater to people that want to field a female army option, they desperately need to update the SOB. When you think about it less than 1 out of every 10 players is female, so why would we need more than 10% of the army's to be of female orientation>? If you have interest in starting a female army you still have the choices of both eldar armys. This is not intended to be sexist in anyway (though im sure its about to be quoted and rebuttled several times on here), but wouldnt female IG in some way detract from the toughness of the army?

look up how Jellyfish reproduce. it's, different


as to orks,

Orks are a sentient fungus/plant organisim.

their body has both Plant and Fungal characteristics.


the orkoid species has many different biomorphs although all are members of the same species.

When an Orkoid dies, defacates, and at regular intervals, it's body releases spores.


these spores have the possability of containing the genetic potential to grow into any number of different orkoids(determined at time of shedding)

the spore could grow into simply the type of Fungus which forms the basis of the Orkoid food chain(orks are indeed canniblistic)

the Spore could grow into a Snotling, Grot, Squig, or an ork.

if it's an ork, it could inturn become any one of the subtypes of ork. it could be a normal ork(which leads to Warbosses and Nobs with growth), a Big Mek, a Painboy, or a Wierd boy.


think of these ork divisions as similer to the sex of a human child.

in any mixing of genes, there is a chance of the baby being male or female.

replace Male and Female with Fungus, Snotling, Grot, Squig, and Ork and you will be getting the picture.


Orks are similer to mushrooms, but not exactly.

Orks are their own species that is totally unrelated to any terran. it shares some similer characteristics to many terran species(and some combinations that don't appear on earth like a mobile plant that eats other organisims)


they are utterly alien in mind and form.

'Fear the Alien'

Personally I'd say yes to IG, Tau and both kinds of Eldar

But Orks would just be disturbing, I'm on the fence with fem-Marines though, on one side it would be against fluff, but on the other side I like the idea, and GW has no problem re-writing fluff anyway (see the Jokerao for further details on that)

And obviously female Kroot, Tyranids and Necrons are pretty much an impossibility given theirs very little gender distinction right there

But I still think GW would struggle to make good female models

BaronIveagh wrote:

I predict either A: a gay shower scene
or B: YMCA tribute band being formed

since its marines its probably 1.

Grey Templar wrote:
and why do people want female space marines anyway? it can't be for the looks because, unlike all those disgusting anime drawings, a Female that was genehanced and altered for war would probably end up looking like those female body builders(IE: no female physique or shape left)

I used to love watching American Gladiators when I was a kid. Those female body builders were hot!


Besides I would rather see a woman with muscles than a dude with muscles. That is why Iron Man Magazine has that 20 page spread in the back. Otherwise you would see nothing but a slong fest.

See that's the problem right there. If you include female warriors, the expectation for them is to be "hot". Well there's nothing grim and dark about chicks who need to look "hot". If the female guard were depicted in the same kind of slightly baggy uniforms as the males, they could be taken seriously. Pictures of dirty, ugly 3rd world women with AK47s come to mind for a woman in 40k, not models with form fitting outfits and unlikely proportions and long feminine hair. So one notable IG colonel has a "nice ass" in the books, thats a colonel, one person, an exception, not the rest of the walmart shoppers given guns that an all-female IG regiment would resemble. Why does the Calidus assassin still have a rack? With all the bio modification on assassins you'd think they would have removed them from getting in the way. But again, nerdy gamer guys expect a warrior girl to be hot, not to make sense.

@Grey Templar

Thanks for such an elaborate explanation about orks. It sort of puts things into perspective, even though having a collegiate background in biology, I still cant wrap my head around the whole sporation into animate being. Im still confused about the necessity of nipples on orks though I guess everything doesnt have to be completely logical, after all its only a game.

Guitardian wrote:See that's the problem right there. If you include female warriors, the expectation for them is to be "hot". Well there's nothing grim and dark about chicks who need to look "hot". If the female guard were depicted in the same kind of slightly baggy uniforms as the males, they could be taken seriously. Pictures of dirty, ugly 3rd world women with AK47s come to mind for a woman in 40k, not models with form fitting outfits and unlikely proportions and long feminine hair. So one notable IG colonel has a "nice ass" in the books, thats a colonel, one person, an exception, not the rest of the walmart shoppers given guns that an all-female IG regiment would resemble.

Its not a problem for me. People seem so touchy about their grim dark toy soldiers. You don't have to be ugly to be grim dark.

I would like to see more female eldar, as it fits with their background that eldar warriors are equally likely to be male as female. I always assumed that there were none (that I could see) because to outsiders they look fairly androgonous.

prefer no additional female models except where they already are.. like DE and sob

Somebody brought up an interesting point.. If we're going to have female space marines, then let's have gay ones.. These are dudes on the battlefield all by themselves.. there's probably lots of gay ones. By the way, if we're going to start representing women, how come there's no minority space marines? The facial structure doesn't look like any of the minority races to me.

New marine chapter: Gay Pride. All units have a lithp and ride unicorns into battle. (not meant to offend anyone).

Element206 wrote:@Grey Templar

Thanks for such an elaborate explanation about orks. It sort of puts things into perspective, even though having a collegiate background in biology, I still cant wrap my head around the whole sporation into animate being. Im still confused about the necessity of nipples on orks though I guess everything doesnt have to be completely logical, after all its only a game.

I still can't find the supposed ork nipples on any model.


We could chalk it up to those models being sculpted before GW finilized the current fluff.

Tinsil wrote:Somebody brought up an interesting point.. If we're going to have female space marines, then let's have gay ones.. These are dudes on the battlefield all by themselves.. there's probably lots of gay ones. By the way, if we're going to start representing women, how come there's no minority space marines? The facial structure doesn't look like any of the minority races to me.

One word.... eugenics....

(venturing into dangerous territory here )

But I've seen marines painted with different skin tones. I don't think GW models are details enough to show facial structure between various ethnicities.

Tinsil wrote:
Somebody brought up an interesting point.. If we're going to have female space marines, then let's have gay ones.. These are dudes on the battlefield all by themselves.. there's probably lots of gay ones. By the way, if we're going to start representing women, how come there's no minority space marines? The facial structure doesn't look like any of the minority races to me.

New marine chapter: Gay Pride. All units have a lithp and ride unicorns into battle. (not meant to offend anyone).

1st off, GW actually had a Chapter called the Rainbow Warriors back in the RT days.

the basic story was -[records deleted by the Inquisition]- and so they were purged and are no more.



Marines are genetically enhanced to be the perfect warriors.

they also have the genes of their primarch. Marines tend to look like their primarch.


Space Wolves are hairy, burly dudes.

Salamanders have the Onyx black(not dark brown, Black) skin of Vulkan(a result of the radiation levels on Nocturne)

Raven Guard have the pale skin and Dark Hair of Corax.

the Blood Angels have the fair complexion and obsession with perfection in all things that Sanguinious had.

the Ultramarines have the Pratrician features of Roboute.

and so on.



besides, in the 41st millenium, there arn't different races present in Mankind.

you are human, no one cares what your skin color is or how your face is shaped.


Stop mukking about and go kill some Xenos.

Tinsil wrote:prefer no additional female models except where they already are.. like DE and sob

Somebody brought up an interesting point.. If we're going to have female space marines, then let's have gay ones.. These are dudes on the battlefield all by themselves.. there's probably lots of gay ones. By the way, if we're going to start representing women, how come there's no minority space marines? The facial structure doesn't look like any of the minority races to me.

New marine chapter: Gay Pride. All units have a lithp and ride unicorns into battle. (not meant to offend anyone).

There are no minorities because in the future we will all be a part of one big Melting Pot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot

I dunno, what with the huge sprawling imperium, there's got be vast array of planets with different climates, and humans who have adapted to each individual one. I think in this future there would be more racial diversity, not less.

Nice explanation Grey Templar, although it sadly does not lesson my absolute disgust of that fluff ever since they changed it a couple of Codex's back.

I always thought the idea of a female Orc interesting, especially as she'd be able to pick up the average Guardsman and throw him back over the Leman Russ he'd charged around.

Although probably slightly over the top body shape wise, I am a big fan or the female Orcs in WoW.

'wouldnt female IG in some way detract from the toughness of the army? '

Women are tougher than men. It takes more work to buff up a woman, though many manage it, as the muscle groups are set up differently, but toughness is not buffness..

If every man tried to squeeze something the size of a melon through an opening the size of a lemon, accounting for it having to do a half-gainer part way through, for several hours, we'd get tless of these 'women are weak' kneejerk responses.

Also, this is a setting where Big E can heal a machine by touch and Marines can somehow come with more options than a swiss army knife, biologically. It's surely not beyond the realms of possbility to make a Black Carapace that workd with women (barring the inherent sexism the gamer culture is still hanging on to...)

We'd probably get more female gamers (about 50/50 where i play) if we didn't keep declaring that all races but pretty or spiky space elves are automatically male

As to orks, i'm ok with genered or gender-neutral,but at present fluff says they're gender neutral. Fluff changes, often for no reason. Squigs used to be tyranids too..

I think a unit of all female 'ard girlz might be fun though

I am not saying that some of the implants wouldn't work.


the black carapace would work, but the main issue is that its the Geneseed that makes a marine a marine.

the Geneseed, currently, doesn't work with a female host.


without the host being abe to accept geneseed there isn't the capability to create new organs.


Geneseed, when removed, is used to create 2 new sets of implants(including 2 new Progenoids)

without the ability to place Geneseed in a female, Space Marine chapters would be throwing away the ability to create new marines.




Space Marines are an ONLY male army. deal with it.


you don't hear people complaining about SoB being an all female army do you?


having female space marines would destroy the integrity of the game.

I'm fine with marines being male, by and large, but i'm also pro-choice on the idea of making female ones. If they can come up with the genetic tomfoolery to make marines, they can adapt it as easily. We'll agree to disagree on that.

My main objection on the point is the reaction as follows:

'but ..but.. but ... we already gave them the Eldar and Sisters...

Keep them away from my marines!'

(and yes, I have heard people claim that the Witch-hunters ought to be an all male list, and citing dodgy fluff and dodgier sexism to 'prove' it :(

Why, exactly, would having female Space Marines destroy the integrity of the game?

I think it all depends of if GW wants to add more females to their customer base.

I would love more female (well sculpted models)

BUT I prefer the Space Marines (also known as "battle brothers" - or am I remembering wrong?) to remain male.

I would prefer for the Sisters of Battle to remain female.
I think the models, while metal, still look both good and feminine. Unlike femarines, they would have a reason to retain their feminine shape in power armor (so in the dark of war, they could tell who their allies are).

I think if we had plastic SOB we would probably not have as much chatter about femarines.

I hate when they drastically change the fluff, space marines being battle brothers is something I hope they can stick too.

About orcs, I love their fungoid background, now my background is in zoology, not mycology, but I remember that some fungi are mildly mobile - I remember seeing an electron microscope image of a fungal organism that had caught a nematode (round worm) for eating. SO moble Fungoid creatures have some validity . . .(I'm stretching logic here, huh?)

Grey Templar wrote:and why do people want female space marines anyway?

This is a multipart answer.

1.) Because it's 2011, and the ratio of genders and skin tones in the game no longer jibes with reality. I enjoy my sci-fi best when it's grounded in reality. I am willing to suspend disbelief at some things - that the most elite troops in the future can tear open tanks with a sword coated in a force-field, for example - but that a faction wholly dedicated to solving problems by throwing warm bodies on it would not use 50% of their available resources because they don't have the right junk is a bridge too far for me. It simply doesn't make any freaking sense, at all. Most modern armies NOW have females fighting, and it seems unlikely that the vast majority of fighting forces on Terra will have females fighting in frontline combat in 100 years, let alone 40,000.

100 years ago, women won the vote. 3 years ago, a woman was considered to be a viable candidate for the president of the united states. I don't want to play a game that tells half of it's potential customers "Little girl, when you grow up, you can be anything you want, even president, if you try hard enough. But never, ever a space marine, even 40,000 years from now, because of fake science."

2.) Fluff is malleable. Saying a made-up organ that is poorly developed in a murky backstory that is a hair's breadth from "a wizard did it" prevents this is patently ridiculous in my opinion.

3.) Because the fact there are not females represented in 40k nearly at all forces you to wonder why, and the rationale that answers it best is, most likely, that it's because GWS sees it's core demographic as young boys who still find girls to be gross. When I see it that way, I'm a little embarrassed to play the game as a grown man.

4.) Because when I was a kid, one of the first action movies I ever saw was Aliens. Ripley, to me, was what a heroine should be. It resonated with me. I'd like to see more of that.

Grey Templar wrote:having female space marines would destroy the integrity of the game.

Wow. Maybe the question you should be asking is, why do YOU feel so threatened by the idea of female toy soldiers in a made up universe?

Ouze wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:and why do people want female space marines anyway?

This is a multipart answer.

1.) Because it's 2011, and the ratio of genders and skin tones in the game no longer jibes with reality. I enjoy my sci-fi best when it's grounded in reality. I am willing to suspend disbelief at some things - that the most elite troops in the future can tear open tanks with a sword coated in a force-field, for example - but that a faction wholly dedicated to solving problems by throwing warm bodies on it would not use 50% of their available resources because they don't have the right junk is a bridge too far for me. It simply doesn't make any freaking sense, at all. Most modern armies NOW have females fighting, and it seems unlikely that the vast majority of fighting forces on Terra will have females fighting in frontline combat in 100 years, let alone 40,000.

100 years ago, women won the vote. 3 years ago, a woman was considered to be a viable candidate for the president of the united states. I don't want to play a game that tells half of it's potential customers "Little girl, when you grow up, you can be anything you want, even president, if you try hard enough. But never, ever a space marine, even 40,000 years from now, because of fake science."

2.) Fluff is malleable. Saying a made-up organ that is poorly developed in a murky backstory that is a hair's breadth from "a wizard did it" prevents this is patently ridiculous in my opinion.

3.) Because the fact there are not females represented in 40k nearly at all forces you to wonder why, and the rationale that answers it best is, most likely, that it's because GWS sees it's core demographic as young boys who still find girls to be gross. When I see it that way, I'm a little embarrassed to play the game as a grown man.

4.) Because when I was a kid, one of the first action movies I ever saw was Aliens. Ripley, to me, was what a heroine should be. It resonated with me. I'd like to see more of that.

Grey Templar wrote:having female space marines would destroy the integrity of the game.

Wow. Maybe the question you should be asking is, why do YOU feel so threatened by the idea of female toy soldiers in a made up universe?

10 points to you, sir.

I've always thought the Space Marines are men argument to be dumb. If they can genetically mess with a human that much, you are telling me the sex of the subject really matters? A space marine isn't that human by the time they are done anyway.

....and if you had female marines maybe we would have less issue with the chaplains going on expeditions with scouts. Yep...I went there.