Do you think Games Workshop should add more female miniatures to their existing 40K lines?

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**Doctor Optimal**

I wouldn't have a problem with including more positive female role models and characters, but I have little patience for the Chain Mail Bikini models that are the usual result of this sort of thing.

Look at pictures of soliders in Iraq. Real women don't have 36DD's popping through body armor, nor do their cuirasses (heh, breast plate, heh) have Liefeld-style tits cast into them. They might be a little shorter than dudes and have thinner faces (and fewer beards), but a grunt is a grunt is a grunt.

That's sort of the point of uniforms, to make you look, you know, uniform.

**-Loki-**

Doctor Optimal wrote:Look at pictures of soliders in Iraq. Real women don't have 36DD's popping through body armor, nor do their cuirasses (heh, breast plate, heh) have Liefeld-style tits cast into them. They might be a little shorter than dudes and have thinner faces (and fewerbeards), but a grunt is a grunt is a grunt.

That's the problem with exaggerated miniatures like GW stuff. They're exaggerated male miniatures. Technically, for a female Cadian, just having a more femenine face should be the only real difference, but that's going to be one butch woman. You need to exaggerate the feminine qualities to make it stand out as a female miniature, which means watermelon sized tits and asses and long, impractical hair if they are wearing armour.

**BaronIveagh**

I might point to the god-awful female catachan as an example of one of GW's attempts at female form....

**Cannibal**

-Loki- has a valid point about exageration. Just compare Catachans to modern soldiers and tell me exageration is only done on females. Catachans don't wear armor either, just instead of showing off large breasts they're displaying their Mr. Universe meat slabs. Female guard Will have to be exagerated to stand out, they just don't necessarily need to be sexualized.

**BaronIveagh**

Personally I liked the Phoenix Club's female Cadian armor torsos. Wasn't TOO far from 40k, but also they were visibly female.

**Jayce_The_Ace**

I think they should add more female models where appropriate (eg. IG), which is why I voted for the first option.

There is a lot of GW/BL fluff about female IG, female pilots, female commisars, female officers, etc, and yet there are very few models, if any, to represent them.

I know we have the SoB, but as bit more variety would be nice.

**ChocolateGork**

With entirely female and half half regiments. It makes sense the guard should have ladies.

**Brother Heinrich**

BaronIveagh wrote:
The Dreadnote wrote:I think it's a good idea in principle. What I doubt is GW's capability to make decent female minis.

Amen.

Achem: on the issue of femarines.

Personally, I see no reason why not, and before someone screams 'fluff!!!!' and tries to smack me with a printed out copy of lexicanum bound into a bible, hear me out:

Let's look at the real reason that, previously, there have been no female space marines. No, I'm not talking about the extra genetic improbabilities on top the already impossible biology of space marines, I'm talking about grimdark. Female space marines are not grimdark.

Why?

Because it, equality among the super ass kickers, would be a positive thing. Positive things do not exist in 40k (to the degree that one wonders how electricity works) and Space Marines are asexual super soldier psychopaths who have absolutely no recognizable human emotions whatsoever besides rage and the need to kill in the name of their god. They represent the very worst parts of humanity from it's very grimmest period, weaponized.

But, wait, you say, that's changed since x edition! Look at all those nice novels about how honorable and human the space marines are!

Yes, and that brings me to my next point: things have changed. Previously, and this was correct, many people claimed that femarines would undermine how space marines are in fluff. However, thanks to writers such as McNeill, this is no longer the case. Space Marines are now supposed to be noble knights, as seen through the rose tinted soft focus view we all have of chivalry. They are now no longer the asexual inhuman killing machines that they used to be. (And very much not asexual in the case of Space Wolves).

So, you say, what of it? So space marines are now moral and positive beings? And?

Female space marines existing would have 0 impact on this. In fact, it might help it a bit, where the Inquisition and Soroitas (who are still screaming hateful religious fanatics, so far) do not.

But Space marines are supposed to be knight monastic orders and such you say. Where were those in the source material (ie history)?

Historically, all female knightly orders existed, and some where even martial (read: combat oriented) orders.

But fluff says....

Fluff gets re-written by GW on an hourly basis (even when it's not passed off to subcontractors such as FFG). If they figured that they would sell more space marines if they had greenstuff boobs on there, you bet your ass that you'd see femarines on every storeshelf. Saying 'well fluff says' is about as effective against GW editorial fiat as flak armor is against a demolisher cannon. Look at Grey Knights. Or Lamentors. Remember when the Emperor was just some guy, and still alive? Back when squats roamed the the universe?

This. GW is Tzeentch, the lord of change, and they are legion. get used to it. in the Decade I've been playing this game I've seen space vikings start riding wolves, space vampires start dropping tanks out of the sky, and now space marines wearing tactical dreadnaught armor wearing dreadknight armor. your best hope is to go ostrich mode.

and as for the topic, option 1. More females in Guard/Tau. SoB, DE, and Eldar......yourdoingitright. BH out.

**Leigen_Zero**

I will agree on this thread, although try and keep to reasonable fluff adherence

C:SM, SM, Orks, 'crons, etc do not need female models, fluff is already well established that they are male only.

Eldar need to be brought in line with the DE, in that they really don't care for gender. All IG need are some alternative legs and heads, and all tau need are some alternative bare heads (AFAIK, female tau don't have human-like busts).

nids - GTFO!

Although on a positive side, we don't really have to worry too much about 'anime nipple armour syndrome', I think they scupltors used up the entire supply on the recent BA line!

**Howard A Treesong**

Wow, half way through page two and no one has posted the Orc Cheerleader...

I think the problem with GW and female figures is based on two things; historically their female sculpts have been of very variable quality and secondly their core market of younger players are mainly into 'kewl' stuff with lots of crash-bang-whallop with tough dudes in big armour and guns and moar-dakka, they are not interested in female figures, their inclusion into the range either bores or embarrasses them.

**BaronIveagh**

Howard A Treesong wrote:Wow, half way through page two and no one has posted the Orc Cheerleader...

I think the problem with GW and female figures is based on two things; historically their female sculpts have been of very variable quality and secondly their core market of younger players are mainly into 'kewl' stuff with lots of crash-bang-whallop with tough dudes in big armour and guns and moar-dakka, they are not interested in female figures, their inclusion into the range either bores or embarrasses them.

The problem there is the demographic of that core market is changing. Locally, we've seen more and more of these strange creatures entering the game stores. They have oddly shaped bodies and smell of soap and water.

I would suggest that tastefully done female minis would sell quite well to this emerging demographic. Particularly the ones that have me sculpting/modding them one by one anyway. (Since I know nothing of resin molding)

**Ascalam**

'C:SM, SM, Orks, 'crons, etc do not need female models, fluff is already well established that they are male only. '

SM and CSM i might agree on, though i see no reason why (besides some very dodgy fluff) you couldn't have female marines. They're not necessary, but neither are they outlawed, in my book.

Orks are gender-neutral, not male (though they do act very laddish.

Necrontyr were male or female , before their conversion into cybermen (erm i mean necrons

) The whoe race was converted, so both genders were made into Necrons.

All are now gender neutral physically, being metal skeletons, and most are mindless automata.

Some, however, retain their minds, and i see no reason why that wouldn't include a sense of gender. One of my two destroyer lords is/was a Necrontyr noblewoman pre-conversion.

Nids are a tougher one. Hormagaunts can breed, so some must therefore be female, and the tervigon and dominatrix definitely are. The others? Hard to tell

' I need a volunteer to check the gender of that Trygon'

'Are you fething crazy?... Sir...'

**cyrax777**

Nids breeding cold just be some sort of asexual breeding like a plant. I would like to see more female models thu just for variety.

Chaos could get cultists SM.

As for female space marines I dont know my fluff so i am completly lost when people state no female space marines it is simply a case of women not getting geneseed implants or are they is geneseed implant not taking do to the lack of the y chromosome?

**Howard A Treesong**

BaronIveagh wrote:I would suggest that tastefully done female minis would sell quite well to this emerging demographic. Particularly the ones that have me sculpting/modding them one by one anyway. (Since I know nothing of resin molding)

There are quite a few female modellers and gamers out there but their interests tend to differ to that of the average teenage boy. My wife likes Reaper and Hasslefree Miniatures particularly for their female characters. GW do very little to target a female market, it's not deliberate as such, I think they just overlook them.

**Lord Scythican**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:I would suggest that tastefully done female minis would sell quite well to this emerging demographic. Particularly the ones that have me sculpting/modding them one by one anyway. (Since I know nothing of resin molding)

There are quite a few female modellers and gamers out there but their interests tend to differ to that of the average teenage boy. My wife likes Reaper and Hasslefree Miniatures particularly for their female characters. GW do very little to target a female market, it's not deliberate as such, I think they just overlook them.

Depending on what the new Sisters of Battle look like, my wife may actually start playing Warhammer 40K. She was halfway tempted to when Dark Eldar came out, but thought it would be too much of a hassle to trade out male parts for female parts.

**Kanluwen**

Lord Scythican wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:I would suggest that tastefully done female minis would sell quite well to this emerging demographic. Particularly the ones that have me sculpting/modding them one by one anyway. (Since I know nothing of resin molding)

There are quite a few female modellers and gamers out there but their interests tend to differ to that of the average teenage boy. My wife likes Reaper and Hasslefree Miniatures particularly for their female characters. GW do very little to target a female market, it's not deliberate as such, I think they just overlook them.

Depending on what the new Sisters of Battle look like, my wife may actually start playing Warhammer 40K. She was halfway tempted to when Dark Eldar came out, but thought it would be too much of a hassle to trade out male parts for female parts.

Funny, my reason for not doing a Dark Eldar force is how much of a hassle it would be trading the female bits for male ones

**bigmek35**

I say Put female only where they need to be, in like gaurd or tau, But not in like orks, nids or MEQ.

another thing if GW can sucesfully sculpt nice Female models that dont look like pornstars but still can identifide as female.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

I've long been an advocate of more female models, especially in the Imperial Guard range.

On a brief side note, to me thats probably one of the more painful loses associated with Specialist Games. As by now Necromunda gangs would probably be plastic, and Escher would allow for all kinds of conversions.

Getting back to the subject though, most of the races should have a higher female percentage. (obviously not Orks or Marines as it stands, although I do remember the female Orc Blood Bowl Cheerleader fondly.

) I think at the moment only Dark Eldar are close enough to accurate numbers.

Hell I think it can go both ways as well, I want a male Howling Banshee, the fluff says they exist, I'd love to see one, but perhaps thats just me.

Getting back to my rambling, I do think that sadly the main reason this is not the case, is up until this point, no one at GW has had the confidence to sulpt female models to any degree.
Juan Diaz is the best at the moment, he needs to be doing more in my book, Chris Fitzpatrick was good before him.
Other than those two, most of the other sculpters have seemed to seriously struggle with the female form.

I hope it changes, I'd love to see a plastic 'female' Guard kit one day, even if it was based on Cadians, just to have more options.
However, the female gangers of the Spiders, or the amazon regiment in the old Guard book would be better.

So yes, I would like more female models in GW's range.

**ColdSadHungry**

Only if they make them look really hot and allow it so you can take their clothes off.

And make pregnant models and the next vehicle they bring out should be a mobile battlefield employment tribunal so that said pregnant models can take their employer to court for not giving them maternity leave.

GW should also make gay marines and marines in wheelchairs and all vehicles and buildings should have wheelchair access. GW should also make protestor models who can stand at the side of the battlefield protesting against war.

And there should be an independent body set up to inquire into the war and see how cost effective it is and whether the geneva convention rules have been contravened in any way. This body should be represented by a new line of models by GW.

Seriously, though, especially with marines, you could just say they are women if you wanted to since it's unlikely that SM armour would be moulded into a female shape - men and women would just wear the same armour. That being the case, if GW wanted to make a concerted effort to give Space Marines a female presence, then you would have to model some feminine looking armour in which case, look at the picture that loki posted. That's how female marines should look and if they did make them, I would buy some because, under THAT armour, you just know she's hot! Because really, that's what it boils down to.

**Ascalam**

Dreads are Marines in wheelchairs

Also, you're either very immature or deliberatly being insulting

I've seen female marine armies that aren't pink with greenstuffed breastplates. There is no reason to change the look of marines to make them girly (i agree with you there).

You should be able to tell from the faces (if they don't have a helmet on) but GW seems only able to do angry and bald or butch with a pageboy haircut...

There's so much tech and padding between the flesh and the outside of a marine suit that it wouldn't be hard to fit a woman in it just as easily, and since the hip proportions on the models would leave a male screaming in agony if they were real wider hips would be a plus

Most gamers with female-marines i've run into paint them in the same colours as the rest. The split on fem-marine players is about 50/50 male/female that i've encounted, and none of them feel obligated to model them barefoot and pregnant, or with handbags and pink armour...

Pink necrons with hello kitty OTOH .. what's with that

A few female characters (with fluff that says they're female, but doesn't insult femininity doing it) would be a good way to include female marines. Have them just as badass as the men (female soldiers are, at least the ones i've met ) and don't try to get cute with rules like 'red rage' or so on.

Basically not acting like a 13 year old when writing fluff or rules (looking at you Ward)

Women are out there. Some play this game too. Not insulting them means they might just stick around ...

**ColdSadHungry**

Nah, I was just trying to have a laugh. Personally, it wouldn't make any difference to me if they had female marines in girly shaped armour - look at howling banshees, I think they look cool. In fact, I quite like that svelte, delicate look and if they did produce female marines that looked like the picture loki posted, I'd probably buy some to add variety. I wouldn't replace loads of my troops with them, though and I certainly wouldn't buy an army just because they were female.

**Grey Templar**

No Female marines as the fluff forbids it.

that said, Guard having female heads would be nice.

the same ratio as in the DE range would be fitting.

all it would require would be a slight redesign of the Guard sprue to make maybe 1/3 of the heads female.

the rest of the body could be identicle. perhaps some slightly slimmer torsos(barely noticible)

**Ouze**

Well, here's my feeling. I'd like to see females of every race that has both males and females, include Space Marines. "The fluff forbids it" is pretty weak sauce, imo, since the fluff is malleable. Every single codex rewrites fluff. It's not like the fluff was laid down from on high never to be altered. I also kinda doubt GWS could do a good job with it, though, but who knows; I'd like to see. My vision of this would be, essentially, female heads. No giant boob chestplates. For IG, essentially the same thing for cadians. For catachans tank tops and wifebeaters make a little more sense since the males also wear little to no torso clothing.

I'd probably skip female Orks, since Orks technically aren't male, anyway. Same for Nids, Necrons, etc. Ascalaon hit the nail on the head regarding Necrons; in that many of them technicially are female already.

**Guitardian**

No. 40k is not meant for pushup bras and makeup and form fitting thigh hugging power armor, it is meant for dudes.. ugly... muscley... dudes. stupid warmongering oafs with veins popping out of their heads and guns with barrels as wide as their fists. The avon lady would not fit in, nor the victorias secret skank. laughed at, raped, cast aside, because in the grim darkness of the future that girls, as a whole, are not made to argue about feminism and equality in mud and blood soaked trenches with drooling madmen.

I will accept 'girls in the 40k universe' as a premise when said girls are big, fat, and butch as hell instead of musculature-showing ab models with enhanced boobs in skimpy outfits and thigh high dominatrix boots that for some reason confer the same save as hulking armor plates the size of a car hood.

**Grey Templar**

Geneseed is consistantly stated as being matched to the Y chromosome, meaning it would be impossable to have a female space marine.

the Geneseed would simply fail to activate, or the unfortunante girl would begin to basically change her sex. if the hormone influx didn't kill her first.

**BaronIveagh**

Guitardian wrote:No. 40k is not meant for pushup bras and makeup and form fitting thigh hugging power armor, it is meant for dudes.. ugly... muscley... dudes. stupid warmongering oafs with veins popping out of their heads and guns with barrels as wide as their fists. The avon lady would not fit in, nor the victorias secret skank. laughed at, raped, cast aside, because in the grim darkness of the future that girls, as a whole, are not made to argue about feminism and equality in mud and blood soaked trenches with drooling madmen.

I will accept 'girls in the 40k universe' as a premise when said girls are big, fat, and butch as hell instead of musculature-showing ab models with enhanced boobs in skimpy outfits and thigh high dominatrix boots that for some reason confer the same save as hulking armor plates the size of a car hood.

I might point out that according to fluff Colonel Regina Kasteen of the Valhallen 597th is not only a excellent officer, but has a nice ass. This is stated as fact. In fluff. And actually she does that 'argue about feminism and equality in mud and blood soaked trenches with drooling madmen' thing. Against orks, necrons, chaos, and genestealers. In Fluff. Put that in your 40k chauvinism and smoke it.

Grey Templar wrote:Geneseed is consistantly stated as being matched to the Y chromosome, meaning it would be impossable to have a female space marine.

the Geneseed would simply fail to activate, or the unfortunante girl would begin to basically change her sex. if the hormone influx didn't kill her first.

Incorrect. The geneseed is *not* match to the y chromosome in fluff, but rather to the more vague 'male tissue types'. The fluff makes vague references to hormones and prepubescent males, but if this neophyte is prepubescent, I'm a frakking ork:

So frankly one should take anything to do with the geneseed in fluff with a grain of salt.

**Obsidian**

No one has yet mentioned the Echer Gangers from necromunda.

I think more ladies could be present. It is entirely possable that whole regiments of Female IG exist under the Echer senario. There could be a planet with kind of 'abhuman' mutation where males are born inherently weaker then their female counterparts. On the subject of Abhumans what about female Ogryns and Ratlings.

Craft world eldar should have a more or less 50/50 mix like the Dark Eldar.

Tau, do we even know if the Tau have mammary glands? The only diffrence that we know of is their face is slightly rounder. So essentially any number of Fire Warriors could be Female under those helmets.

**PresidentOfAsia**

My friends who is obsessed with hentai and porn would say yes to female space marines cause they need to be horny while playing(but he doesn't even play, he doesn't even know crap about the fluff but he acts like he does which really pisses me off, he even said the models were a waste of money compared to gundam models)

all in all, NO to female space marines

and an absolute NO to that infamous carmella dance space marine anime girl

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:Well, here's my feeling. I'd like to see females of every race that has both males and females, include Space Marines. "The fluff forbids it" is pretty weak sauce, imo, since the fluff is malleable. Every single codex rewrites fluff. It's not like the fluff was laid down from on high never to be altered. I also kinda doubt GWS could do a good job with it, though, but who knows; I'd like to see. My vision of this would be, essentially, female heads. No giant boob chestplates. For IG, essentially the same thing for cadians. For catachans tank tops and wifebeaters make a little more sense since the males also wear little to no torso clothing.

I'd probably skip female Orks, since Orks technically aren't male, anyway. Same for Nids, Necrons, etc. Ascalaon hit the nail on the head regarding Necrons; in that many of them technicially are female already.

There are some things in the fluff that are not malleable(for example grey knights cannot go chaos) and if females are given a male gene seed, wouldn't that make them transvestites

**Leigen_Zero**

Ascalam wrote:'C:SM, SM, Orks, 'crons, etc do not need female models, fluff is already well established that they are male only. '

SM and CSM i might agree on, though i see no reason why (besides some very dodgy fluff) you couldn't have female marines. They're not necessary, but neither are they outlawed, in my book.

Orks are gender-neutral, not male (though they do act very laddish.

Necrontyr were male or female , before their conversion into cybermen (erm i mean necrons ) The whoe race was converted, so both genders were made into Necrons.

All are now gender neutral physically, being metal skeletons, and most are mindless automata.

Some, however, retain their minds, and i see no reason why that wouldn't include a sense of gender. One of my two destroyer lords is/was a Necrontyr noblewoman pre-conversion.

Nids are a tougher one. Hormagaunts can breed, so some must therefore be female, and the tervigon and dominatrix definitely are. The others? Hard to tell

' I need a volunteer to check the gender of that Trygon'

'Are you fething crazy?... Sir...'

Nids are more-or-less gender neutral, they do reproduce (more or less) naturally with uterus-like growing vats/cocoons aboard the hive ships pre-invasion, but I don't think they actually 'do it like on the discovery channel', it's more 'here is a bunch of DNA, shove it in that cocoon over there, ooh look a broodlord!

'Crons, personality and mannerisms possibly, but physically no, I think star gods have better things to do with their time to create conversion kits for their armies of robots so the female soulless automata can feel more feminine

'Yes soldier, just go over there, pull it's legs apart and hang it upside-down, like an iguana!'

**The Dreadnote**

It really shouldn't come as this much of a surprise to me that when someone asks "should there be female models for imperial guard and tau?" you immediately get a crowd of people shouting "no female space marines!"