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Grey Templar wrote:


the Ad mech didn't take huge losses.

only a couple made it the surface and was promptly vaporized by 2 titan legions.

the fact the 1 ship that landed was VAPORIZED tells us something.

High cost in this case means that the Ad Mech lost more ships then is normal when destroying an enemy ship of that tonnage.

The fact is that Mars has orbital defenses comparable to Terra, and yet a mere 5 Necron ships managed to inflicted "fearfully high" casualties in a raid. It's rather telling.

but this is the Crons we are talking about.


the most advanced race that has ever existed.


the Nids dont even compare.

As for the "Emperor's just a vegetable" theory, freezing time itself while speaking to someone is part of the everyday life of a piece of broccoli?

Non-sapient predators tend to migrate to where prey has higher population density, and tend to target the weakest of prey when there are options available. Sapient predators tend to herd prey to maximise their takings, and tend to kill or tame alpha individuals so as to make predation safer. Both can end up overpredating and wiping out prey, or else reach an equilibrium state. The Tyranids have been observed to do all of these.

Scenario: the Tyranids learn that Terra is the lynchpin of their second most populous prey's ability to organise to defend itself, and launch an all-or-nothing attack

My predicted outcome: mutually assured destruction. The Tyranids could maybe pull various tricks - fly in when the planets are favourably aligned, blot out Sol with a fleet of unprecedented (by any race) size, silence the Astronomicon & disable psykers (including GK) & cause mass suicides with the biggest Shadow in the Warp ever seen, and have a fairly established Genestealer cult. In such a situation, they might be able to get enough gribblies past the defences to consume Terra. They would almost certainly not be able to farm enough biomass to replenish their losses sufficiently to deal with the retaliation of every latecoming Navy/Astates/etc fleet that managed to get there, and the Imperium almost certainly would not be able to survive in its present form with such a massive weakening of defences against other races this would bring about. And if the Star Child stuff happens, it might even bring about a new renaissance for humanity.

Scenario: the Tyranids learn that Terra is the lynchpin of their second most populous prey's ability to organise to defend itself, and set about bringing it down

They probably wouldn't go near Terra until they'd already inflicted death by a thousand cuts on the wider Imperial economy. If the Sol system lost its imports and countless vassal systems, and those instead had been converted into Tyranid biomass, it's simple numbers. You eventually run out of interplanetary nukes. (Note: this scenario would be very difficult to distinguish from the present observed situation.)

Scenario: Games Workshop want to indefinitely sell Space Marine and Tyranid kits to their customers

Every Hive Fleet that qualifies as 'major' will either get defeated in a Pyrrhic victory and replaced with a new 'major' Hive Fleet appearing elsewhere, or else end up reaching equilibrium with Orks/Kroot/deathworld fauna/etc.

I like secenario two.

That won`t happen anyway, since 40k will be stuck in M41Y999 for all eternity.

Necanor wrote:That won`t happen anyway, since 40k will be stuck in M41Y999 for all eternity.

lol... Didn't see that one coming!

On topic... First you are arguing over which plastic model would beat another plastic model over a fight for a galaxy that will forever be in the year 40k.

Second there are multiple flaws in this thread. First, Terra has been there for thousands of years, and would not be able to be knocked out in a single blow by any of the current fleets. They might be able to attach it, just fail miserably like nearly everything else in the Nid codex.

Second...I forgot my second point.

Third, why would GW want Terra to be destroyed? That would mean we would know the end of the game. Its like playing the last level in a video game, and then trying to beat the rest of it, or watching the last ten minutes of a movie.

Necanor wrote:That won`t happen anyway, since 40k will be stuck in M41Y999 for all eternity.

6th Edition fluff section is gonna have a loooot of trouble if that's the case

Necanor wrote:That won`t happen anyway, since 40k will be stuck in M41Y999 for all eternity.

Fun sucker.

Harriticus wrote:

Necanor wrote:That won`t happen anyway, since 40k will be stuck in M41Y999 for all eternity.

6th Edition fluff section is gonna have a loooot of trouble if that's the case

They'll just do what they did with 5th ed: add in more fluff that covers things that happened in the last 1000 years. The fluff hasn't advanced since Medusa V(4th ed).

I believe the "main Tyranid fleet" theory comes from the fact that EVERY fleet has the same creatures. The Tyranid are a hyper-evolving race.... so if each fleet was doing its own thing in different galaxies there would be a lot more variety in the different fleet's. Not to mention the multiple directions they approach from. THe image that always pops into my mind is the milky way surrounded by a thick sea of Tyranid's all around and the occasional small percentage being sent in to toy with its inhabitants.

Also I believe the Hive-mind is a very "curious" thing, hence all of these special 'nids we hear so much about. (old one eye, doom of Malontai, etc) these different fleets could just be pokes and prod's to see what hurts this galaxy the worst, as to be more effecient in the final assault.

The most recent Tyranid codex weakened them in fluff by making it clear that the fleets and their splinters are extremely hypermetabolic when in a state of war/consuming worlds and that by drawing the fleet into an extended war of attrition or doing what the eldar have been doing and wiping out all life on nearby worlds, they starve themselves into a state of exhaustion and can then be broken and eradicated.

This bothers me, because the distance between galaxies in unimaginably large. How can they survive the distance when they are so hyper-metabolic? I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying it is a mistake on GW's part. It says they are like this when they are in a state of war, however the hive-ships are ALWAYS awake including the narval. THese are Tyranid creatures as well and would also be hyper-metabolic. (all living things need sustenance).

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I believe the "main Tyranid fleet" theory comes from the fact that EVERY fleet has the same creatures. The Tyranid are a hyper-evolving race.... so if each fleet was doing its own thing in different galaxies there would be a lot more variety in the different fleet's. Not to mention the multiple directions they approach from. THe image that always pops into my mind is the milky way surrounded by a thick sea of Tyranid's all around and the occasional small percentage being sent in to toy with its inhabitants.

The main fleet theory comes from the fact that the 3rd edition Tyranid codex confirmed the main fleet theory: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Strategic_Collective. It's canon, not a theory.

This bothers me, because the distance between galaxies in unimaginably large. How can they survive the distance when they are so hyper-metabolic? I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying it is a mistake on GW's part. It says they are like this when they are in a state of war, however the hive-ships are ALWAYS awake including the narval. THese are Tyranid creatures as well and would also be hyper-metabolic. (all living things need sustenance)

The Tyranids remain in a state of hibernation in the Galactic void

I can see a major Nid hive fleet doing some serious damage to Terra, they beat the feth outtah Macargge, but outright destroy Terra? No, Its too damn important for the Imperium to afford to loose. The Imperium would throw everything at its disposal to destroy it. However, I can see the Imperium becoming so dstracted by an attack on Terra that Chaos could easily overtake many many many worlds and attack a weakened Terra and maybe overcome it.

Plus, If the Tyranids can make landfall, lots of civillians there. Lots of Biomass. The Tyranids could very easily launch a long and drawn out seige of Terra if they et a major landing force down.

The idea that the nids could use the shadow in the warp to surround Terra is bollocks. Sue it would block all coms to Teraa, but every one would run to Terra to see if everything was OK.

Also everyone seems to have forgotten the existance of the Custodians guarding the emprah.....

Besides id the imperium was slightly intelligent they would lift the 1,000,000 cap on marines and go sabbat(V:tM) tactics and mass charge the nids

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:The idea that the nids could use the shadow in the warp to surround Terra is bollocks. Sue it would block all coms to Teraa, but every one would run to Terra to see if everything was OK.

Also everyone seems to have forgotten the existance of the Custodians guarding the emprah.....

Besides id the imperium was slightly intelligent they would lift the 1,000,000 cap on marines and go sabbat(V:tM) tactics and mass charge the nids

You can't come and help if you cant use warp travel. Mars and maybe titan could come but they do not have faster then light travel so by the time they get there they be fethed (as no warp travel as SOTW)

the Astronomican that close to the source might actually overpower the SitW and still shine through(weaker then normal)

Tyranids could use a jackal technique like Jormungandr did. Surround the system and ambush anything that trries to break in or out.

They could also just leave Terra to last.

Harriticus wrote:
The main fleet theory comes from the fact that the 3rd edition Tyranid codex confirmed the main fleet theory: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Strategic_Collective. It's canon, not a theory.

That's an in-universe theory. It might not necessarily be true. The Inquisition and Magos Biologos are not always correct.

B455L1N3 wrote:You can't come and help if you cant use warp travel. Mars and maybe titan could come but they do not have faster then light travel so by the time they get there they be fethed (as no warp travel as SOTW)

They could use Warp travel to at least get near to Terra, unless the Hive Fleet is casting a Shadow sectors wide. Once, say, in the Sol system, an Imperial fleet would likely reach Terra fairly quickly even without faster than light travel. There's no way it's going to be an easy victory for the Tyranids, even if they could prevail.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I believe the "main Tyranid fleet" theory comes from the fact that EVERY fleet has the same creatures. The Tyranid are a hyper-evolving race....

They don't actually. Hive Fleet Colossus was a fleet of living ships grown from stone, and the creatures were all 'centaur-like', and communicated telepathically even with Imperial forces.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:They could use Warp travel to at least get near to Terra, unless the Hive Fleet is casting a Shadow sectors wide. Once, say, in the Sol system, an Imperial fleet would likely reach Terra fairly quickly even without faster than light travel. There's no way it's going to be an easy victory for the Tyranids, even if they could prevail.

The shadow in the warp blocks the astronomican. The astronimican is required for humans to use warp travel in any reliable way. If they surrounded Terra, the astronomican would be entirely shut down for the rest of the Imperium. No one would be turning up in any significant numbers to do much.

I imagine that Terra must have psychic safeguards as well as physical ones. Astropaths scanning the heavens, mystics divining the future. Constantly. The only ones who could pull off a surprise attack are the Chaos gods, because the psychic reverberations of the impending pitched battle would be impossible to mask.

Inconceivable!

the Astronomican is extreamly powerful that near to Terra. it would likely be able to penetrate the Shadow.

I mean, that's a cool statement to make, but have you got some fluff to back it up? All that's been said regarding the astronomican and the shadow in the warp is the shadow is strong enough to block it.

You guys might need to remember that there is the Saturine fleet, and the Admech would unveil their most powerful weapons, and the custodes would be called out.

-Loki- wrote:I mean, that's a cool statement to make, but have you got some fluff to back it up? All that's been said regarding the astronomican and the shadow in the warp is the shadow is strong enough to block it.

yes, the Shadow does block it, but thats at the far edges of the galaxy where its already pretty weak.


at the source the Astronomican glows extreamly brightly.

And the darkness at the centre of a hive fleet surrounding that bright light? Who knows...

We have nothing much to go on on relative strengths other than both are extremely potent. No reference or barchart of relative strength. The fluff is rarely totally consistent even between books for armies of the same faction, let aslone between races

A point to note on the Necrons landing on Mars. Why bother landing, knowing you will be destroyed, unless you plan on it.

What happens when you kill Necrons? They teleport to the nearest Tomb. Noctis Labarinthus is a Tomb

Just a thought...

Ascalam wrote:And the darkness at the centre of a hive fleet surrounding that bright light? Who knows...

We have nothing much to go on on relative strengths other than both are extremely potent. No reference or barchart of relative strength. The fluff is rarely totally consistent even between books for armies of the same faction, let aslone between races

A point to note on the Necrons landing on Mars. Why bother landing, knowing you will be destroyed, unless you plan on it.

What happens when you kill Necrons? They teleport to the nearest Tomb. Noctis Labarinthus is a Tomb

Just a thought...

No thats only if they phase out.
Necrons can die. But being obliterated by Titans would mean there is nothing left.

Any when 75% of the crew are killed what happens, hmm?

Necrons can Phase Out by choice in the fluff, and return to the nearest Tomb when they do so.

Res Orbs are also wonderful devices Also the Ships are pretty sturdy. I imagine they had more than a millisecond before the ship caved in

All necrons, including the dead ones, Monoliths and those that can't teleport in-game like Pariahs teleport out if beaten (or of they choose to ) . Necron remains also go with them, which is why Necron stuff is hard to come by for study ...

If hundreds of thousands of chaos marines couldn't do it a nid hive fleet can't.