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When is started the hobby, I hated metal models. In the last couple years I have been working with a lot of the oop Rackham Confrontation metals and I must say that the durability of metal outweighs the extra effort needed when working with it. I want my figures to last a lifetime and I spend considerably more time in the prep stage to ensure they will. Resin is crap in terms of durability.

That being said, the resin GW will be using is apparently quite different from the brittle horrorshow we are already all too familiar with. I think that this new resin may surprise a lot of people...that is if I if I believed GW to be capable of instituting positive change, which I'm fairly certain it is not.

Alternatively, the new resin might be so crappy that GW hopes to boost sales through replacement items once your model has shattered after a small tumble. Look and their paint pot designs vs. the pots from the mid 90's. CHA-CHING!

There's so very much I hate about working with metals, mostly the time, effort and frustration of putting them together, one small knock and then having to file/green stuff/glue, if you chip the paint it's a nightmare BUT i feild 4 obliterator cults, they are big, ugly and when you pick them up their weight seems to fit, and dam does a well painted meatl look good. Both these things outweigh the bad, but only just!

I'll keep an open mind about the resin, nut if it's naff I have a great and playable chaos army I'll use, scrap my future GW plans and find other modelling to do.

Metal HQ Characters, thats it

I will miss the heft and feel of something solid that doesn't fall over when someone bumps the table, and of course I'm all about the nostalgia, but really I have been a huge fan of the plastics. Especially for ease of construction, ease of conversions, ease of transport, and ease of repair if something ever does happen.

I hate resin for anything but scenery. I'm holding out to see what happens, but if the naysayers are right I'll be fielding an entirely OOP army in a few years.

I won't miss metal for much, but the heft on my Ghazghkull Thraka model was pretty satisfying.

Metal is hard as heck to repair when it snaps, and its annoying to glue together where you cant pin it.

Metal has a nice weight to it, that wont let the model tip easy, but it loses this one benefit if the model is awkward, top heavy, and ill-balanced to begin with.

I'm split. I think I will miss metal, because it is one of those things you CAN buy second hand, and guarantee you can restore to within 90% or better of pre-painted condition, assuming it wasn't vandalised by the previous owner/s.

I think I would like to see GW or some other manufactuerer come out with weighted bases, just so the models spend more time staying up-right.

poda_t wrote:Metal is hard as heck to repair when it snaps, and its annoying to glue together where you cant pin it.

Agreed.

poda_t wrote:Metal has a nice weight to it, that wont let the model tip easy, but it loses this one benefit if the model is awkward, top heavy, and ill-balanced to begin with.

I'm looking at you Chaos Raptors.

poda_t wrote:I'm split. I think I will miss metal, because it is one of those things you CAN buy second hand, and guarantee you can restore to within 90% or better of pre-painted condition, assuming it wasn't vandalised by the previous owner/s.

I also have to agree with you on this too. I love that buying second hand pewter is almost always a guaranteed clean build; unless someone is glue crazy.

poda_t wrote:
I'm split. I think I will miss metal, because it is one of those things you CAN buy second hand, and guarantee you can restore to within 90% or better of pre-painted condition, assuming it wasn't vandalised by the previous owner/s.

This is really true. I've never bought a metal miniature that I couldn't get back to nearly new condition, though sometimes I don't bother getting the paint out of the depest crevases. I've stripped and rehabed alot of plastic figs as well, but as someone who buys alot of old and used miniatures, metal is a surefire way to know you are buying a completely re-usable figure.

poda_t wrote:
I think I would like to see GW or some other manufactuerer come out with weighted bases, just so the models spend more time staying up-right.

There are actually a few companies that make metal bases. Googling "Metal Miniature bases" brings up quite a few. They aren't cheap, but heft is nice. Here's one: http://1-48combat.com/extras.htm

As another option, I have had really good luck with fishing weights. Break them in half (they come already nearly in halves), squeze with a pliers to fllatten a bit (if you bought the big ones) and glue to the inside of the slotta. They also have the benefit of being really cheap.

thanks mad4mini/themoclaw for presenting the other side of the argument.

I have built some FW stuff so far and have been careful just to use a modelling knife not to file @ all. ( I only begun working with resin earlier this year AT ALL)

but should feel a little more confident doing so now


yeah it is pretty off-putting reading all the doom/gloom >.<

One other thing I thought of was that GW is the gateway drug for many gamers. Many gamers will now enter the hobby without -at first- even seeing metal models as part of the landscape. That just seems wierd.

redeyed wrote:thanks mad4mini/themoclaw for presenting the other side of the argument...

...yeah it is pretty off-putting reading all the doom/gloom >.<

You're more than welcome to express your opinion, but I hope you weren't surprised to see mostly "gloom" in a thread that calls itself "a commiseration thread" in the very first sentence.

There is something tangible about the heft and feel of a metal model that suggests you are quite literally getting your money's worth (and that is quite important given the current state of affairs with GW).

The modeller in me loathes metal - too many bad experiences with fiddly kits that refuse to glue. If I were a converter, I think I would also be glad to see metal go - plastic/resin is just easier to work with.

With all that said, there's a distinct element of nostalgia though with metal's demise.

it was more about working with resin Eilif rather than doom/gloom about GW swapping to Resin/price hikes.

I can DEFINATELY understand doom/gloom about the pricing!

I also have a preference for metal >.<

Gottcha, Redeyed.

Two more questions for discussion....

1) For those missing metal, how many of you will make some effort to weigh down your bases to add some heft?

2) For those not concerned about GW prices, but preferring metal, will you seek out used or NOS versions of the miniatures that are being converted to Finecast or just buy the Finecast version?

Every single plastic mini I have gets a washer glued into the base for a little bit of weight.

Well Eilif, to answer your first question, I like the stability that a little extra weight in the right places adds, so I weight my bases on the plastic minis.

And as for your second question, I am concerned about GWs prices and business practices in general, but I will still be getting my HQ (CSM Daemon Prince and a Iron Warriors WarSmith) choices in metal... even if through eBay or some other source.

Just something I like about metal for HQs, probably a combination of the weight and stability, and the way that they take paint and are cool to the touch. And now more than ever... the nostalgia of metal pieces.

Hell, I might even have to get a squad of metal Chaos Terminators AND old Tons"o"Fun himself.. the metal (and ugly as sin) Chaos Dreadnought.

redeyed wrote:thanks mad4mini/themoclaw for presenting the other side of the argument.

Let me clarify my position: I prefer metal, but resin is not asbestos. If you work with it carefully, you can do so relatively safely. Just don't do it indoors.

moonshine wrote:This might sound stupid but, are all metal models going to be made into resin ? I am most concerned about ghazghkull, the sag mek and the de range

A lot of GW's range is changing.

Other manufacturers will still have a fine range of quality white metal and lead army men to go round.

Finecast might be good. Other companies make great detailed resin stuff. The detail on these is much better than the gw plastic sprue. http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=62. Maybe the new Finecsat will look that good

moonshine wrote:...Other companies make great detailed resin stuff. The detail on these is much better than the gw plastic sprue...

No, not really. About the same, see.

versus


Resin is a lower quality option, the lowest of the three, Metal, Plastic and Resin, regardless of detail of the pieces in question, because of it's physical properties.

Plastic can be chemically glued to a better fused bond.
Plastic is flexible, resin is brittle.
Plastic is also softer and easier to drill, file and shave.
Plastic is inert, for health concerns.
Injection molded models seldom have the production irregularities in strait and square ended peices you see in resin warping.
Injection molded plastic never has air bubbles or incomplete cure problems.
The density of plastic being the lightest of the mediums, allows models to survive falls better.
Resin models, like plastic, can't be easily stripped.

Resin models are a downgrade from essentially all perspectives, people are justified in being upset to see this coupled with a price increase. If anything, it should be cheaper, because the resin is a cheaper medium than metal and because they should be able to get a shipping savings based on weight, especially en mass.

I think that the maxi mini heads are better but anyway, they do not make everything out of plastic to keep cost down and I think they are stopping using metal because the price of metal is going up, i think they use tin in there alloys and the price of tin is going up.

themocaw wrote:

redeyed wrote:thanks mad4mini/themoclaw for presenting the other side of the argument.

Let me clarify my position: I prefer metal, but resin is not asbestos. If you work with it carefully, you can do so relatively safely. Just don't do it indoors.

unless of course you dont sand/file then there isnt an issue indoors I presume!!

I'm going to miss the very distinctive sound of someone dropping their metal miniature on the floor and everyone in the room craning their heads and saying, 'oooooohhhhhh'.

redeyed wrote:

themocaw wrote:

redeyed wrote:thanks mad4mini/themoclaw for presenting the other side of the argument.

Let me clarify my position: I prefer metal, but resin is not asbestos. If you work with it carefully, you can do so relatively safely. Just don't do it indoors.

unless of course you dont sand/file then there isnt an issue indoors I presume!!

Yup.

I'll miss the weight of it. I enjoy how heavy it is, reminds me of a chess piece.

I will miss the ability to easily strip paint from crippled minis.

Simple Green and alternatives still do not work incredibly well and the effort to strip plastic/resins is almost worth throwing them out and replacing them with New.

Personally I won't miss metal because I have large amounts of painted and unpainted metal figures in many genres and scales.

Also, I do not believe that metal will disappear as the casting medium of choice for small companies for years to come, if ever.

I don't believe that resin will become viable as a material for smaller models (15mm and below) until its mechanical properties are greatly improved.

I have an old BA captain made from lead. If he isn't already 20 years old, then he can't be far off. I acquired him through trade when I was at elementary school and he already had a half inch of enamel paint on him even then. Since then he must have been stripped a dozen times in all manner of chemicals, and spent at least 10 years rattling around loose in a box with other metal miniatures. This past week he has been stripped 4 times, as I have been using him as a guinea pig to practice different paint schemes for my plastic sanguinary guard (not so easy to strip if done wrong).

Despite his hard life, he still looked as clean and shiny as the day he was cast when I airbrushed on his last undercoat. Soon he will (at long last) get the paint job he deserves, and take pride of place in my painting cabinet. A relic from my childhood.

I'm sure that won't be the end of his story. Who knows where he might end up in years to come. Perhaps he will pass to my children or grandchildren. Or be sold on ebay after my death and end up getting stripped again by someone else, or spending another 10 years rattling around in someone else's attack, before he is throw out, found, lost, found again, and then buried in soft peat for 3 centuries. Maybe one day a thousand years from now his worn out old remains will sit in a museum or a private collection somewhere, a relic from the 20th century.

I'm not saying it will happen, but metal can potentially last for millennia. Resin isn't going to last like that, it's gonna chip and fracture at the first sign of rough treatment.

Part of me thinks that GW wants this. They have always attributed drops in sales on 'market saturation' (Though everyone I ever met who stopped buying GW has clearly stated their reason as "too expensive/rip off"). Games Workshop don't want you stripping and reusing your old miniatures for decades and selling them on ebay. They want your miniatures to break and snap and for you to buy replacements as soon as possible.

I view any move towards resin with extreme cynicism. I won't be buying any stupid resin from GW at their magic inflating prices, they can go to hell.

RIP Annoying white powder oh how I LOVED to clean it All jokes aside I loved metal because of their sturdiness and resistance to breaking when PROPERLY pinned

feth yeah! I find it a huge hassle to put models in the dishwasher, too.

Although I'm by no means a fan of metal models, having just recently worked with my first resin model I can't see how it's a good substitute for metal. I know that when I first played 40k (at the age of 12) I wouldn't have had the patience to do all the prep work required for resin and I don't think the way I treated my models would have left them in a particularly good state (I didn't throw them around or anything but I was certainly a lot clumsier). Considering that impatient 12 year olds will make up a fair slice of their consumer base it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

But what do I know? Maybe, as it's been said, the resin they're using is very different to the stuff we get from the likes of Forgeworld.