Ok, what the heck is going at Wayland Games re: ROW

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**Kilkrazy**

Ozymandias wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:That would seem to be breaking the spirit of the rules.

Hey man, RAW is a bitch.

Wayland say they are working within the spirit of the rules as well as the letter.

**Kirasu**

As far as I know, at least in the US GW can just cancel your trade contract and it doesnt matter whos third party distributor you go through

Wayland games sure is taking a massive gamble and it makes me think that a very small percentage of their sales are actually in the UK so they have to break the rules or shut down. This wouldnt surprise me since GW was the cause of the destruction of all the british local game stores from what I hear, why not destroy the online ones too?

**cosmid**

vonjankmon wrote:GW would have to do something like hire a private investigator to find out...

All GW would have to do is mark the product they send to the suspected partners and then make an order from wayland and find the mark. Make it a new, but low volume model so they don't have to mark much. A finecast tau space pope perhaps.

**AgeOfEgos**

cosmid wrote:
vonjankmon wrote:GW would have to do something like hire a private investigator to find out...

All GW would have to do is mark the product they send to the suspected partners and then make an order from wayland and find the mark. Make it a new, but low volume model so they don't have to mark much. A finecast tau space pope perhaps.

Well, each model has a sku associated with it (I'm pretty sure GW uses SKU markers)....

**Kirasu**

I think GW is gonna treat them pretty harshly.. if they want to restrict world sales then they're going to make wayland an example. If I were the evil empire that's what i would do..

**MagickalMemories**

DaNewBoy wrote:58.91 for an Ork BW w/shipping! I can by from England cheaper then driving to my FLGS...

I think we should be careful about this though... my FLGS won't be able to compete with these prices and could lose some business and perhaps their whole store.

You can buy from Miniaturemarket for even cheaper (25% off US MSRP). Your FLGS won't lose any more business to them that it would have already. If anything, they'll fare better against Wayland's higher prices.
Many people would rather pick the item up *when they want it* for the extra $7ish than wait for Wayland to get it to them. Especially since they'll be helping their FLGS (Mini Mkt *is* my FLGS).

Eric

**AesSedai**

Filbert wrote:

I have had an order waiting with them for two weeks now and nary a squeak - still processing apparently

You too? By the way, where did you get that info? I have been really patient with them and will continue to be patient but I wonder how long it'll take?

**Grundz**

Flashman wrote:I am intrigued to know how they're doing this. Pity I can't order ROW stock to see what the difference is.

they have a sub-store/shipping location inside the different "realms" allowed by gw, fairly simple.

**filbert**

AesSedai wrote:
Filbert wrote:

I have had an order waiting with them for two weeks now and nary a squeak - still processing apparently

You too? By the way, where did you get that info? I have been really patient with them and will continue to be patient but I wonder how long it'll take?

It's on their front page, under the heading 'Citadel Finecast Delays'

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/

To be honest, I swore I wouldn't order from them again; last time I shopped with them my order took ~2 weeks or so but I thought I would give them another shot. Not sure when stuff will ship this time - all it says is 'processing'. According to their shipping FAQ:

Maelstrom FAQ wrote:Orders placed before noon will be processed and (stock willing) sent out the same day; orders placed after noon will be processed and sent the day after. Quite obviously, we do not send items on weekends (we would like some time off!), so if you place your order between noon on Friday and before noon on Monday morning, it will be processed on Monday.

However, it is inevitable that some items could be out of stock when you place your order. In such cases we will order your item from the relevant manufacturer on the same day, which will usually take 2-3 working days to fulfil - so beware bank holidays!

**Mithrax**

Wayland may have found a loophole for now, but it'll be closed as soon as GW can figure out how to close it.

**AesSedai**

Filbert wrote:

Not sure when stuff will ship this time - all it says is 'processing'.

Got you beat there, mine has been "packing" for about a week. Sigh.

I think even if Wayland gets away with ROW sales, Japan might be really steep shipping. Free shipping is was drew me too Maelstrom originally.

**Vermillion**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Vermillion wrote:Average salaries mean nothing all honesty as that includes the higher earning ones, lets go for the majority.
Minimum wage in the UK £5.93
Minimum wage in Aus $15 which is £9.85 roughly according to a currency converter.

So after checking places to live I would be paying roughly the same on rent for better accomodation, after hitting the grocery sites and comparing I'm saving £30 a week on food. Leaves bills really, with that extra income depending on energy and telecommunication bill charges I'd be better off overall.
Now lets factor in averages again. Two adults on that wage, 40 hours a week with 2 kids, one gamer in the house. Sorry but still looks as if currently with costs compared the Australians have it better off with more disposable income. Factor in that the GW products which are the centre of this debate are shipped there and sold by people GW are paying in their stores 50% more I can see why prices would be higher there. I can see why GW costs there are so high given these additional costs and while currency strength might be a factor in pricing abroad these aren't really being looked at and thats before shop rental costs come into it, it's not just a straight conversion which should be looked at.

And rereading this I should add the orkmoticon

Disclaimer: This isn't a troll, or a rant, just me calling it as I see it after seeing page after page on this subject and think people should stop to think of this. I also think people should start a rally against energy companies which is an essential expenditure, not a luxury like a hobby, check your bills for those and see how much that cost has went up. Lets discuss those in off topic perhaps and compare and see who is the eviler company, gw or the energy providers

Of course, GW prices were 50% more expensive than the UK when the Aussie Dollar was worth far less than what it is now, and if wages had anything to do with the cost of GW models, there would be places in the world where you could buy for far, far, less than UK/US does.

But you said it yourself:

"Average salaries mean nothing..."

Damn right Vermillion.

It's just GW using a favourable exchange rate to reap as much return off of our market as possible ie. another short-term goal. If they were serious about this embargo, they wouldn't sell to Australian gamers via their UK web store. Except they do. So they're a bunch of hypocrites.

I prefer to think of them as something else which would get my post deleted myself

. Just wondering what hasbro or a similar company will be doing with the warhammer games and specialist games when the GW board decide they've nearly made enough and now it is time for a single space marine to be £25 not a full squad after they buy the company for sod all when shares are worthless.

I'm still curious about how Wayland managed this, perhaps they showed just how much less stock they would be buying coupled with how many ROW customers wont buy anymore

. Like I said GW are not just hypocrites but will "do anything for some fast cash", possibly even on a street corner

**frozenwastes**

It's also funny that people think that because the AUD went up, average salaries have gone up in other currencies, that they should pay more.

The opposite is the case.

The whole point of having a valuable currency is that it means people are buying what you're selling. In Australia & Canada's case, it's natural resources. So if a country is selling stuff, then why shouldn't they be able to take that purchasing power and turn around and buy things with it?

Charging them a premium on stuff they import is basically stealing money from what you paid them when they export.

Citizens of countries with strong currencies should enjoy the purchasing power of their currency as a natural result of the economic activity of that country.

**rich1231**

We will still be subsidising shipping as we do now. The shipping costs will not be going up.

You can see how little it costs to ship around the world by adding items to your basket and clicking "view basket" and using the shipping estimator.

On another note, and this is in defense of all retailers caught in the same boat so to speak. The price rise and terms changes led to a huge and monumental surge in order volumes with no reasonble notice given to us to allocate or recruit extra resources. And as such we all have backlogs still.

AesSedai wrote:
Filbert wrote:

Not sure when stuff will ship this time - all it says is 'processing'.

Got you beat there, mine has been "packing" for about a week. Sigh.

I think even if Wayland gets away with ROW sales, Japan might be really steep shipping. Free shipping is was drew me too Maelstrom originally.

**H.B.M.C.**

filbert wrote:According to their shipping FAQ...

And they've already explained how GW differs from that FAQ (1 order a week and, now, max 3 of any Finecost miniature). When Maelstrom have sales on GW products things slow down. This is normal. Everyone should expect this. When sales are on they do around 5000 orders a week, and they're only allowed to order from GW once a week because GW are a bunch of asshats.

Now factor in the sales embargo and the huge level of sales that would generate - is it any surprise things are taking this long? I'm still waiting for my order, and I made mine relatively early in this process. I'm still waiting for my Wayland order as well BTW - that hasn't even shipped yet.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

As it always been this ridiculous at GW?
Why don't they just sell from a little cubby hole in Games Workshop World if they wish nobody else to sell their products.

**Dysartes**

The first half of my Maelstrom order placed on May 28th turned up on Thurs or Fri last week - but I've only been able to collect it today. THey split my order due to a PP fig being out of stock at the distributor.

Not sure if that helps you with your timing, and there was only one Finecast miniature in there (a Lord Commissar - ordered before I was aware of the date when Finecast was launching).

I'm going to spend a little time tomorrow and Friday, and do a "My first Finecast" post on my blog.

**candy.man**

I placed an order with wayland a few weeks back and I haven’t heard anything from them either. It’s kind of ridiculous that a handful of very bad decisions from GW can have such a massive flow on effect.

**Grot 6**

DaNewBoy wrote:
derek wrote:
DaNewBoy wrote:
I think we should be careful about this though... my FLGS won't be able to compete with these prices and could lose some business and perhaps their whole store.

I'm going to stick my neck out and pretend this was a serious post.

Honestly people have been saying the same thing since that crazy fad called the internet showed up. I'm sure any day now the hobby will die along with all of those stores that have been successful for the previous years and years that the internet has allowed consumers a choice in where they spend their currency. After all, we know that Games Workshops new European Sales terms, and the US internet sales terms before those, were the magic band aids that erased the internet retailers from existence and made it safe for the FLGS to "compete" in Jervistopia, erasing any and all problems they faced since the big bad internet forced them into new ways of doing business.

For a more serious reply, when I decide where to spend my money, I take into account what my FLGS offers me as a consumer. For example, two of my local stores provide a 15% discount on GW product, a place to play, very nice tables and terrain to play on, and events where I can play with my toy soldiers with others. I don't often feel the need to shop overseas other than during vouchers because I see the everyday savings offset by what I'm getting from my local store. I do however want the choice to be there for me to do so. Just like I want the choice to order from across the state at Miniature Market, and save 25% off retail when I'm making a big order.

The fact is, the guy who runs my FLGS is not running a very successful business. The demand is there, but to maintain his brick and mortar store he has to mark up prices slightly. He has another job besides the his store he works to pay the bills and I bet without that job the store wouldn't survive. He has a regular crowd of about 15 a day that come in and play games, but that in and of itself isn't generating revenue. Sure they'll by a glue here or some candy there, but in general retail space to just play games is a losing business.

He already has closed the store Mondays and Tuesdays because he can't afford to keep it open everyday of the week anymore. I know this is a capitalist market and the week must die so the strong survive, but if the store goes, I don't have anywhere to play anymore. I am already living paycheck to paycheck myself and I have to save every month to afford a new box of lootas or a meganob.

I know I could probably add you not caring to my list of woes, and I completely understand. I just thought it was worth mentioning that there are stores like my FLGS that this wouldn't be the best news for.

Youe compairing completly different subjects here, dude.

And not only sound foolish, your making excuses about things you don't know anything about.

He has a store with a bunch of clientel that he sells to. Whatever the issues, the bottom line point here is that he could go out on a limb, and.. you know... make himself appealable to his people by being a little more of a business and not just sit there like a jerk and wait for people to put the money in his pocket for him.

Its called running a business for a reason.

I'm sitting here thinking WTF about the subject, though. I mean seriouslly, we're talking about SELLING miniatures, for feths sake, not weapons or chemicals, or some other gak.
Toy figures, and some game stuff, so lets jump through hoops and do some tricks.

GW is a joke.

**Pacific**

RiTides wrote:Good news, let's hope it pans out!

As to ordering Finecast from them- I'm sticking to getting Finecast locally, with all the issues it's had- not sure how easy it would be to get a replacement if ordering it online... plus, it seems the wait time is really long.

By George, I think he's got it!

Make the quality of Finecast so dubious, that purchasers are unwilling to take the risk of shopping online - thus reducing sales from online retailers, and forcing customes back into stores to buy at full RRP. I knew there was logic in all of this somewhere

**Ouze**

Why doesn't GWS convert themselves to 100% direct only? It's clearly where they want to be, so why not just nad up and do it. All these loopholes they are making their business partners jump through are just stupid. What's next - with every order, you have to submit a haiku about how good looking Jervis is?

**Guildsman**

There are only 2 reasons I can see that keep them from going entirely direct-only. The first is that they cannot ignore how good for business physical stores are. Most of their money probably still comes from brick and mortar stores, and those are also the places that kids are first introduced to the hobby, for the most part. The second reason is that, as has been stated a million times before, GW seems to hate the internet, and going direct only would require them to embrace internet business, which they seem determined to avoid for as long as possible.

**candy.man**

Ouze wrote:What's next - with every order, you have to submit a haiku about how good looking Jervis is?

Stop giving them more ideas lol

**nosferatu1001**

Losing the retail stores would kill the size of the industry. GW are the gateway plasticrack drug dealers.

PP know this, mantic know this, etc.

So if you have a premise that internet only doesnt grow the hobby (it doesnt in the majority of cases) then encouraging

As was pointed out the first time round: instrument makers did this, as they saw the value of having actual stores with real knowledgable people. Not JUST company A sending to consumer B halfway round the world.

Not defending GW, as the way they handled it (little notice) was far from ideal.

**filbert**

Ouze wrote:Why doesn't GWS convert themselves to 100% direct only? It's clearly where they want to be, so why not just nad up and do it. All these loopholes they are making their business partners jump through are just stupid. What's next - with every order, you have to submit a haiku about how good looking Jervis is?

Ponytailed rules chimp
Forced to write White Dwarf nonsense
Give back Blood Bowl aid

**Asuron**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
filbert wrote:According to their shipping FAQ...

And they've already explained how GW differs from that FAQ (1 order a week and, now, max 3 of any Finecost miniature). When Maelstrom have sales on GW products things slow down. This is normal. Everyone should expect this. When sales are on they do around 5000 orders a week, and they're only allowed to order from GW once a week because GW are a bunch of asshats.

Now factor in the sales embargo and the huge level of sales that would generate - is it any surprise things are taking this long? I'm still waiting for my order, and I made mine relatively early in this process. I'm still waiting for my Wayland order as well BTW - that hasn't even shipped yet.

Odd, I made mine two days before the embargo and i've received two of three orders from them, with one more on the way and I assume itll be in any day now
great job there Wayland

Rich I really gotta ask though, aren't you worried if they find out they'll just stop supplying completely?
I mean they showed no concern about shutting retailers out all over the world with the embargo, why wouldnt they stop allowing you to sell products if they find out about this?

**H.B.M.C.**

It mightn't be legal. We don't know the details.

I mean, personally speaking, I don't see how they can be obeying the spirit of the trade agreement if they're doing the complete opposite of what the trade agreement allows, but I guess we'll see when Wayland gives us more information.

**Orlanth**

When Weyland opens up direct trade beyond Europe GW is in its right to cease trading with them. Such an act is entirely within their 'profile'. Weyland must have seen this.

Therefore either the sale to 'RoW' is to be done by a third party, or a third party will be needed to stock Weyland Games. Weyland is opting for the latter which will require active ongoing deception. The DTI might have something to say about that.

What Weyland Games and GW are doing in itself is perfectly legal, I'm not so sure about the third party, as they will need to conceal business records in order to remain veiled.

**notprop**

Rich said it was legal, that'll do for me.

Presumably the sale agreement doesn't limit Wayland from purchasing from other sources, since this would be restrictive on other businesses.

**rich1231**

Orlanth wrote:When Weyland opens up direct trade beyond Europe GW is in its right to cease trading with them. Such an act is entirely within their 'profile'. Weyland must have seen this.

Therefore either the sale to 'RoW' is to be done by a third party, or a third party will be needed to stock Weyland Games. Weyland is opting for the latter which will require active ongoing deception. The DTI might have something to say about that.

What Weyland Games and GW are doing in itself is perfectly legal, I'm not so sure about the third party, as they will need to conceal business records in order to remain veiled.

Please reconsider your post. As we have already stated, what we are doing is fully and completely legal and abides by all trade terms and conditions of sale we purchase stock under.

And the name is Wayland

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry for extra post.. just want to post this as its also posted on another fora.

Guys and girls, a few times we have seen mention of why don't GW just cut us off or that we must be doing something untoward to achieve our solution.

I can assure you as already stated we are not breaching any terms or conditions of sale. And what we are doing is also legal in every way that we can test.

We are well aware of the commercial risks. However, we have traditionally had a great relationship with GW and I know deep down they are aware and appreciate our efforts to get their product "out there" to a wider audience. Of course, there are a whole host of legal issues involved in the major market player discontinuing supply which I am sure GW are aware of. However, that aside, we at Wayland genuinely believe there to be a commercial solution which we can agree with GW which is good for them, good for us and good for all our customers wherever they may live!