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Cryonicleech wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:The silent majority of gamers are happy with the stuff.

Of course when you go into your FLGS and see that the shelves of GW stuff are shrinking, while PP, Malfaux, and FOW are pushing them to the back of the shop?

well...


That "silent majority" comment is just another propaganda talking point by a team of pencil pushing bean counters that have imbibed in too much Kool-Aid for thier own good.

When you talk to a redshirt on thier turf- GW is the dogs! They can do no wrong! People LOVE the big brother mentality, and they shell out thier cash like mindless drones.

Outside of thier bubble of groupthink?

People play the game, and if something else comes along thats better? People drop it and move on. The majority of people have limited time to dwell on this BS and don't really care. Don't believe me? Check out the swap section, or Feebay.

The serious point here is that people really don't care at the end of the day, and they leaveif things get rough. "40K? Oh, I tried that, it got expensive, so I left that stuff to my brother.... friends... kid.

Shops I've been in in the past two month are cheesed off about the finecrap pricegouge. The rules skewared to the FOTM armies, and the cheesehead plays of the company of the last month or two. That finecraop got a whopping five to ten models on the shelf, and MORE choices of gaming is showing itself up there. FF games, and some more board games are pushing the minis, as well as the reemergence of the old school stuff, such as Battletech, the old starfleet battles stuff, shadowrun, the new HERO system stuff, etc. As well as peoples resells. ( for some odd reason people are trading in thier 40K stuff.)

Prices are the biggest thing so far, and it is getting worse.


The "real" silent majority just leave after about a month or two, or whenever they see thorugh the smokescreen that is the GW "Hobby", then move on to other game systems. They don't have anything invested but a couple of bucks and some time. When they start talking about prices, it then becomes appearent whats going to happen next.
Then they drop thier GW "fix" and move on.

They then get out before they get caught in the rat trap. FOW, PP, Malfaux, and other systems are getting thier money instead.

Erm... no?

I'll admit, PP and Malifaux are certainly rising in popularity where I am situated, but the GW shelves are hardly "shrinking", and believe it or not there are people who enjoy the games and don't really take the business decisions of the company to heart. Not to say that GW is correct in their decisions, but for some people it's just not important. Is that a bit backward, sure. But the "silent majority" do exist, believe it or not. You see them in the P&M forums with their brand new GW projects, you see them at GW tournaments every so often, you see them in the stores and even those basement gamers who don't have an FLGS to go to. It's ridiculous to suggest that people who buy GW products are "Slaves to the monopoly". There's a reason GW hasn't sunk yet, believe it or not. Sure, people love the big brother mentality, but people also love the underdog mentality. It's easy to say that other companies are the gems hidden behind GW's smokescreen, but it's easy to criticize GW for being at the top.

And while other companies have great games, that doesn't necessarily mean their communities are great. A fair amount (Not all, but some) of the people who play WM/H or Malifaux keep bringing up their baggage against GW wherever they go, going to the point of flat out insulting people who still support GW. Now, I get that there's an intense hate for them going on right now, but seriously, just leave it at home. The elitist bullcrap that comes from some people who hate GW is just getting annoying and rude. I don't bash you for playing WM, so quit bashing me for playing WHFB or whatever (Not that I have personally, but friends of mine have.) If I went into the Discussions forum and talked about how I dislike anything about PP/Wyrd or whatever, people defending it wouldn't be apologists or fanboys, but when you try to defend GW you are?

Some people (not you Grot 6, I just quoted you as an example) really just need to stop getting butthurt about everything GW and just move on.

\


LOL, whatever.

you want to go see the swap forum here? check Feebay. it's alive and well and full.

LOOK back over my post. chief. The silent majority is alive and well, and they play what they want that they enjoy. If they don't have fun with it, they move on...

As for moving on? I'm a card carrying member of Cermudgions incorperated. I liked it so much that I am the president and founding father of the company.

I don't have to suck down the kool aid there because I'm !@#$ing sick of thier BS. I'm past being mad over dumb stuff. As a matter off act, sounds a lot more like YOU are the one with the issues there, skippy.

I'm sitting on more stuff then you'll ever see in three lifetimes because I can. I have a stake in the game more then most people, and I will say what I want, when I want, and if you don't like it, stick it.

I have a hard core contingent of EX gw players that say you don't know what your talking about either. Butthurt? LOL, whatever dude.

Where did that come out of left field, anyway? Why don't you try reading first before calling me out there chief.

GW is losing ground in four different stores in three different states that I've seen so far. Virginia is up in the mid atlantic, NC is south of there( 2 stores there), and I saw some stuff here in FL thats looking a little meh, as well. I'm not even LOOKING, or trying to find out the decrease in sales, that I saw before I left. FINEcrap didn't do any favors, and people are in between WTF and MEH.

when GW talks about the "so called" silent majority, they are talking crap. When YOU and I are talking about it, we're talking about those 5-10 other players you see in your local shop, that are fine and having a good time playing what they want. when the breaking point comes... and it does come sooner or later.... people MOVE ON and play something else.

I know how my area sits, hows YOURS?

If I criticise GW, it's because they earned it. I'm not the one banging the cat here, GW did that when they overstepped themselves and declared the war on us.

I'd like to toss in my two cents about the 'silent majority' that make up the bulk of GW's customers. I'm absolutely certain that they exist, and as I said just before, they're the ones who put most of the money into GW"s coffers - not us, the haters, apologists, the I-don't-give-a-damn-ers, the vocal minority.

But here's the thing - I believe that GW is the only major wargaming producer today that has a 'silent majority'. And why is that?

They lack any real communication with their customer base. Any by 'real communication', I mean forums.

Think about it. I can give you a list of companies that support their own forums:

Privateer Press
Wyrd
Spartan Games
Baccus 6mm
Warlord Games
Battlefront
Corvus Belli
Mantic
Slitherine

All of the above companies have forums that are actively run by the company themselves, and are frequently mentioned during advertising campaigns. On these forums, you can find actual employees responding to questions and complaints, or offering their own advice. New customers and veterans alike are encouraged to come join the forums.

GW's lack of any sort of company supported forum is a major factor in this 'silent majority'. Imagine if, around the world, posters were hung in Games Workshop stores and FLGSs alike, telling customers to come join the official 'GW' forums - run by a team of strict, but fair, moderators. We wouldn't have to waste our time yelling back at forth at each other through text on whether or not people are actually disgruntled with GW (which the majority seems to be, due to a decrease in overall sales) because we could actually find out!

Cryonicleech wrote: (not you Grot 6, I just quoted you as an example)

That's... kind of important here.

First off, I have no idea what Cermudgions is/are. Not being sarcastic here.

Secondly, no one's saying "drink the Kool-Aid". You don't even have to tolerate GW, hate them all you'd like. You're absolutely right, you can say what you want, seeing as how you're mostly likely a veteran, who has spent much money and effort into the "GW hobby". All I'm trying to convey here is that while you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, there's certainly another side who sees it otherwise, and it's a larger group than most people expect.

Sure, people move on. Tons of people in my FLGS already have. I do happen to know how my area sits, and there's a healthy collection of new/veteran GW players there. The assumption that everyone agrees that GW is a terrible company is a mistake that is all too common here on Dakka, and even out in the real world.

Seriously, no one's calling you out. GW has made crap decisions. Again, all I'm saying is that while tons of people ARE leaving GW, there is another good amount also who are staying/entering.

Yeah, there is a silent majority, and while I don't think I'm necessarily representative of them, I more or less include myself in that category. I read here, and occasionally post, but if you judge the post count to join date, it's pretty low. That's not due to not visiting frequently. In fact, I check the site fairly frequently, and have more or less since I joined. However, outside of the P&M Blogs I really just check rumors and try and sift through the bile. I post occasionally, but have found that any opinion that's not in direct line with the vocal minority is either shouted down, ignored, or name calling ensues. If something is incredibly off base, I sometimes feel the need to post in response, but more and more I find it's not worth the time.

To be completely honest, I'm more put off by alot of the uninformed, abrasive posters I see than I am by any of GW's decisions, as much I might disagree with those decisions. It's really hard to continue to take things seriously when people posting realistic assessments of GW's policies are accused of being GW plants or other such conspiracy nonsense. It's laughable, and frankly, I think most people are like me and don't bother responding because there's no point arguing with someone who is set in their ways and willing to direct their frustration at you for disagreeing.

Keep up the pressure. The arguments are becoming razor sharp. People are listening. Change is not instant. You have to keep speaking out to create change. The silent majority do not exist.

infinite_array wrote:I'd like to toss in my two cents about the 'silent majority' that make up the bulk of GW's customers. I'm absolutely certain that they exist, and as I said just before, they're the ones who put most of the money into GW"s coffers - not us, the haters, apologists, the I-don't-give-a-damn-ers, the vocal minority.

But here's the thing - I believe that GW is the only major wargaming producer today that has a 'silent majority'. And why is that?

They lack any real communication with their customer base. Any by 'real communication', I mean forums.

Think about it. I can give you a list of companies that support their own forums:

Privateer Press
Wyrd
Spartan Games
Baccus 6mm
Warlord Games
Battlefront
Corvus Belli
Mantic
Slitherine

All of the above companies have forums that are actively run by the company themselves, and are frequently mentioned during advertising campaigns. On these forums, you can find actual employees responding to questions and complaints, or offering their own advice. New customers and veterans alike are encouraged to come join the forums.

GW's lack of any sort of company supported forum is a major factor in this 'silent majority'. Imagine if, around the world, posters were hung in Games Workshop stores and FLGSs alike, telling customers to come join the official 'GW' forums - run by a team of strict, but fair, moderators. We wouldn't have to waste our time yelling back at forth at each other through text on whether or not people are actually disgruntled with GW (which the majority seems to be, due to a decrease in overall sales) because we could actually find out!

This I still dont understand how such a major corp. Can be missing out on this free market reasearch. I have only been playing 40k for about a year and when I first started I went to GW's website and was shocked to not see a forum. In reality that's what brought me to dakka in the first place.

It takes a lot of time/money to properly run a forum. The amount of demographic data you get from running one isn't always that great either, unless you spend even more time & money, which could be spent in better ways if you want proper market research. "Silent majority" and all that.

And IIRC GW shut down their forum due to the amount of "haters" posting, together with restructuring (removal of Black Gobbo etc)?

pixelpusher wrote:It takes a lot of time/money to properly run a forum. The amount of demographic data you get from running one isn't always that great either, unless you spend even more time & money, which could be spent in better ways if you want proper market research. "Silent majority" and all that.

And IIRC GW shut down their forum due to the amount of "haters" posting, together with restructuring (removal of Black Gobbo etc)?

I don't know that the reason GW shut down their forums was due to "negative" post, but I do recall lots of threads getting locked (quickly) at the slightest utterance that perhaps..just maybe...GW might be less than perfect.
Which is of course the best way to handle questions/criticism from your customer base...ignore it and it'll all go away.

Or you just don't have the time to handle a/the snowball effect, and a directive from higher up to remove stuff that's considered "bad". I dunno, it was during my GW-hiatus and I've only read second hand reports.

Having worked with clients that considered using, or used, forums for two-way communication it's seldom been a great solution for the company. There is, unfortunately, the case of a majority of negative comments being voiced. "Happy users" stay happy and don't talk about it as much as the unhappy ones. Which then in turn makes the company get bad PR since "it's only complaints" on their forum. Etc. etc.

I used to post on the EoT forums. They had very good moderators. There was a high noise-to-signal ratio thanks to the number of junior and newby members posting.

Certain topics were taboo. Any thread that mentioned Squats would be closed immediately. I don't remember if they were sensitive about price complaints and so on.

They had the usual rules about swearing and politeness, similar to DakkaDakka.

I don't recall the forums being very negative. If anything, there was a baseline level of positivism because they were the official forums.

I thought they were well run and it was a pity they got shut down. It may have been a cost-cutting effort as much as anything else.

I only went there a few times but I found GWs forums to be full of drivel, to the point where I never really looked at any forums again until finding Dakka a few years ago.

Other than that like KK intemated, what pay for something where you/your staff get abused frequently (other than the shops ).

How does anyone know what the silent majority think? Cause they are silent right.

The silent can be used to justify anything you like as there is know way to quantify them.

GW are a company that seem to have no interest in what their customers concerns are.

If people are mad ignore them and they will go away. Really? is that a good way to be successful in a business?

People get angry about stuff cause it upsets them and they vent. Telling them that they don't matter cause there a minority is poor business.

They need to grow the hobby not shrink it and charge more for it to stay on an even footing.

Sometimes silence is deafening.

If a squat dies in the woods and noone is there to see it. Is the squat dead?

You usually do market research, and if that does or doesn't correlate with the usually vocal minority is a whole other matter.

The general rule is that there is a higher percentage complaining than satisfied users telling people that they're satisfied. Especially since most "pretty satisfied" to "it could be better but I'm OK" users usually get shouted at by the angry, non-content, users who in some form feel they've been wronged by the company and need to tell / convince everyone about it.

I would probably fall into this "silent majority" in a way.

I buy GW stuff, but I dont buy enough of it for the price rises to discourage me. Sure, I would love it if it was cheaper, but current prices arent a deal breaker for me.

I dont play 40k, so the wonky rules have little effect on me. When a new version comes out Ill give it a look.

I haven't bought an issue of White Dwarf since around 2000, but I used to really like it. Im disappointed to hear its gone to junk. If they bring it back up to par Ill give it a chance again.

I think its a damned shame what they are pulling on the southern hem folks, but doesnt have any direct effect on me.

Overall Im a small customer for GW...but if they got a better set of rules for 40k and good content in WD, I would step up my spending on their products quite a bit.

Mad4Minis wrote:I would probably fall into this "silent majority" in a way.

I buy GW stuff, but I dont buy enough of it for the price rises to discourage me. Sure, I would love it if it was cheaper, but current prices arent a deal breaker for me.

I dont play 40k, so the wonky rules have little effect on me. When a new version comes out Ill give it a look.

I haven't bought an issue of White Dwarf since around 2000, but I used to really like it. Im disappointed to hear its gone to junk. If they bring it back up to par Ill give it a chance again.

I think its a damned shame what they are pulling on the southern hem folks, but doesnt have any direct effect on me.

Overall Im a small customer for GW...but if they got a better set of rules for 40k and good content in WD, I would step up my spending on their products quite a bit.

Well said and gets to the point of what I was driving at above I think it great that the Northern Hem folk are okay, just saying the hobby has seen better years down south.

Love to see some market research data on Oz or anywhere for that matter. I'm sure they do it but it can be subjective.

pixelpusher wrote:If a squat dies in the woods and noone is there to see it. Is the squat dead?

You usually do market research, and if that does or doesn't correlate with the usually vocal minority is a whole other matter.

The general rule is that there is a higher percentage complaining than satisfied users telling people that they're satisfied. Especially since most "pretty satisfied" to "it could be better but I'm OK" users usually get shouted at by the angry, non-content, users who in some form feel they've been wronged by the company and need to tell / convince everyone about it.

You know, again, I believe we really only see this with GW.

I'm on the PP forums quite often, and I don't see really anyone complaining. I do see the occasional 'Trenchers, whats up with that?' thread over on the Cygnar community (with answers ranging from 'Yup, they suck' to near-essay length responses on how to get the most out of them), but I haven't seen the amount of bile that gets spewed on those threads that I have on Dakka, from both sides.

The same goes for the Spartan Games forums, the Wyrd forums, the Baccus forums, etc.

And i"d really like to see how GW actually conducts market research. I had head that they do some sort of poll through White Dwarf, but if that's their version of 'market research' then they might as well just pat themselves on the back and just ignore their costumers.

Thats great for PP. "My" experiences have been a bit less than satisfactory with clients and forums. Not to mention all the endless seminars about two-way communication and "social media" I've attended.

But I guess PP really embraces the media a bit more than GW can (or want to?) do and probably enforces a good culture on their forum via moderation and posters. Which takes time and effort.

A pretty good example of what I was talking about was (Is still? There was a long time since I was there and clients have stopped talking about forums ever since Facebook came around) is the World of Warcraft forums. Parts of them. Especiallt concerning bugs, pricing and "balance" could be a cesspit of whine about the most slowed things. Blizzard has a huge userbase though, and from what I've heard and read, the signal to noise ratio increases exponentially. With a bunch of profilic posters being driving forces.

I'd also like to see the results of Games Workshops market research. Together with a bunch of the financial reports and memos. Oh, and the memo concerning why they don't appear at non GW-conventions.

Rick Priestley mentioned on the latest 40K-episode that GW still felt they were "top dogs" and other games we're a bit of non existant. So perhaps they don't feel like doing any market resarch at all. Who knows?

EDIT: I really have to learn how to maek English readable

pixelpusher wrote:Thats great for PP. "My" experiences have been a bit less than satisfactory with clients and forums. Not to mention all the endless seminars about two-way communication and "social media" I've attended.

But I guess PP really embraces the media a bit more than GW can (or want to?) do and probably enforces a good culture on their forum via moderation and posters. Which takes time and effort.

A pretty good example of what I was talking about was (Is still? There was a long time since I was there and clients have stopped talking about forums ever since Facebook came around) is the World of Warcraft forums. Parts of them. Especiallt concerning bugs, pricing and "balance" could be a cesspit of whine about the most slowed things. Blizzard has a huge userbase though, and from what I've heard and read, the signal to noise ratio increases exponentially. With a bunch of profilic posters being driving forces.

I'd also like to see the results of Games Workshops market research. Together with a bunch of the financial reports and memos. Oh, and the memo concerning why they don't appear at non GW-conventions.

Rick Priestley mentioned on the latest 40K-episode that GW still felt they were "top dogs" and other games we're a bit of non existant. So perhaps they don't feel like doing any market resarch at all. Who knows?

EDIT: I really have to learn how to maek English readable

I'm going to say it's a case of GW not wanting to embrace the media, since (no matter how much we may talk them down) the company is still the biggest wargame producer out there. They would most certainly have the money to do something.

As for your example... *shudder*. I always avoided the WoW forums when I used to play, especially after hearing the horror stories associated with them. I do think they're a good example , except on 2 parts. Since WoW is a computer game, patches are always available to re-balance any problems that may crop up, whether it's buffing or nerfing a class (look at me, with mah nerd-lingo and whatsits!). GW can't do that, unless they want to start messing with unit entries and equipment costs whenever they release an FAQ/errata sheet for an army. 2nd, you're correct, they do have a large user base. Videos games are, after all, much easier to start playing than wargames. And you don't have to have even the tiniest bit of social skills to play games like WoW, since most of your time is spent sitting in front of a computer screen, instead of an actual opponent. This means that you can get massive waves of bile coming out of people, some of which puts even the worst people on the Dakka forums to shame.

Your market research remark: agree on all points. Especially the non-GW convention bit. Well, I can kind of see why. Imagine if Kirby decided to show his face at Adepticon. I'd bet the guy would be pinned to a hastily erected Chaos star in a matter of moments.

And as for your English? Well, just try asking around and seeing how many of us Americans can speak Swedish.

pixelpusher wrote:
I'd also like to see the results of Games Workshops market research. Together with a bunch of the financial reports and memos. Oh, and the memo concerning why they don't appear at non GW-conventions.

Easy enough:

http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalFullYearReport.pdf

FINANCIAL HIGHLIGHTS 2010 2009 Revenue £126.5m £125.7m Revenue at constant currency* £121.8m £125.7m Operating profit - pre-royalties £13.0m £5.5m Royalties receivable £3.1m £3.5m Operating profit £16.1m £9.0m Pre-tax profit £16.1m £7.5m Year end net funds/(borrowings) £17.1m £(1.6)m Earnings per share 48.4p 17.6p

Phew. Formatting that was a chore. Enjoy.

Ummm...

I could be reading that wrong but it looks like they increased their profit from 2009 to 2010.

If I'm mistaken, please tell me.

Yeah, that's their end year report? I want to see the marketing/economics-reports correlated with demographics and spending behaviours. What you presented is "just numbers".

We're getting a little off topic now though.

Monster Rain wrote:Ummm...

I could be reading that wrong but it looks like they increased their profit from 2009 to 2010.

If I'm mistaken, please tell me.

They've increased their profits every year since 2006 IIRC, but their 2011 profits are down 6% which is being blamed on staff layoffs (moving to one-person stores I guess). I'll grab a link.

Overall sales declined in North America and Northern Europe, but apparently sales through independent retailers in those territories actually grew.

EDIT:

Yeah, they've increased profits every year since 2006. I think that was their worst year, where they took a real nosedive, but I'd have to look that up.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=GAW:LN

2007 2008 2009 2010 TOTAL REVENUES 109.5 110.3 125.7 126.5 GROSS PROFIT 77.8 77.4 89.8 95.8

pixelpusher wrote:Yeah, that's their end year report? I want to see the marketing/economics-reports correlated with demographics and spending behaviours. What you presented is "just numbers".

Does all that jibba jabba really matter when the end result is increased profit?

Perhaps a bit late, but better late then never...

I think I'm part of the silent majority.
I don't complain, don't write angry letter or moan about GW in general.
The reason why I don't do this is because it doesn't change a thing!
A single person cannot change GW, ten persons cannot change GW, a hundred persons cannot change GW, by writing angry letter or telling they are stupid on the internet.
I bet that my post will prbably be ignored and not read by a lot of people...

Now what I can change is myself, I can stop buying from GW and that is what I'm doing. I've stopped buying from GW, because I don't like the changes they make.
(I don't like resin and I don't like the prices.)

And with that, if there are more like me, we can change GW, because if a lot of us stop buying from them, we can hopefully make a change. Maybe not now, but maybe on the long shot.

Yet I still love the game. I really like my Imperial Guard and I really like the fluff. And I won't stop playing the game...
I really would like it to change my army, to add somethings and to remove some others, but I paid too much money for it, to just waste it...

And the sad part is, a lot of it was for nothing since a lot of people in the FLGS are moving to Dystopian wars...

Yes, if we want to know what kind of customer is the "silent majority", if it's still "kids" or if it's more adults. Hopefully you'd also see a trend of returning customers vs. new customers.

Or did I just miss a subtle joke?

No, my jokes are generally pretty unsubtle.

But I see what you're saying now. I just took the "silent majority" to mean the people that continue/begin to purchase GW products in similar/ever increasing numbers.

Kilkrazy wrote:At the extremes of opinion there is reflex criticism on both sides. The arguments from people nearer the middle of the spectrum are more reasonable.

Anyway, GW's sales have been dropping every year since the end of the LoTR bubble.

Who knows whether the missing customers are fed-up vets or people who would previously have been happy newbies but are put off by the prices? Probably a bit of both.

In general, though, people complain because they care. GW should worry if the volume of complaints dies down; it means that keen players are losing interest in GW and moving to other pursuits.

I am content to play GW games as GW games are the McDonalds of gaming. They are everywhere. That however does not mean that I don't shake my head at the apparent brazen attitude displayed by GW with their marketing or that I totally approve of the codex creep/codex-of-the-moment nature that seems to becoming the norm.

The core of my passion for GW is that I can invest in a GW product and find someone to play it. I have played many other systems and enjoyed them thoroughly though they had less of a following. So every move that GW makes to price out the new blood from joining the hobby or frustrating the players through codex creep or price creep makes me nervous that "McDonalds" is going to lose market share and thus interest and I will be sitting holding $1000s of dollars of stuff that no one wants to play.

Figure it this way - I started in 2nd edition and had my army for under $100. We went to 3rd edition and I had my 1500 point army for around $250 dollars. I played through 4th edition and now 5th edition
the standard army has crept up to 1850 - I bought a DE army and $618 later I have the core of my army with about $200 in options. Now certainly inflation should take the price up. Understandably the cost of the army went up as the number of figures required has gone up. The issue is the "little jimmies" have to hit mom & dad up for the money, now I know I could hit my parents up for maybe $50 a month for all things - entertainment, movies, stuff - but little Jimmie at $50 a month is going to be waiting a year before he can play my version of DE. How much you want to bet my version of DE is going to be viable in 12 months? Do you think that little Jimmie is going to be happy when he has $400 worth of DE stuff and everyone tells him it is now crap and he should be starting codex X as it has all the cool stuff that can beat anybody? Do you think Jimmie is going to start this $600 marathon again with codex X?

As I said before it is not the passionate gamer who complains that GW should be concerned with as much as the silent majority that just walks away from a hobby that continues to dissappoint. I would guess for every 5 passionate gamers out there who play 40k or WH, there are at least 5 others who have dropped or stopped participation. That is my concern.

There's 2 groups of 'Silent Majority,' in the UK, I think.

The first, and by far the largest is what my mates call the 'Little Timmys' - the kids you see at GW on weekend mornings, that swarm the place at half term. They're about 12-15, play the game for a few years, then leave. Funded by their parents at birthdays and Christmas entirely.

The next 'majority' which is significantly smaller I think, are probably the one most identifiable with the folk on here. - Finished uni/collage, got a job, possibly cleaning out some things from home and find a bunch of toy soldiers in the attic from when they were 'little Timmys'.

Basically, a decent amount of disposable income, some prediliction of geekiness, they find a club and start playing again.

Us forum posters, are likely a very small subgroup of that (I am, kind of).

This second group are mostly the folk I know at my gaming club, who do complain about the prices a lot, generally speaking, the latest price rise has stopped them buying things from GW and instead are either going to webstores or, more commonly, ebay. - Exhibit A, a recent facebook message to me: "Hey, err... I got a bit drunk last night and bought 2 Leman Russes for a tenner, wanna tell me a bit about Imperial Guard?"

So, they're losing that income, however.


It's the Little Timmy's that bring the money in for GW and, though they are likely decreasing with each price rise, the price rise probably masks that. To be honest, I think GW's going to get away with this current price rise due to the Little Timmy factor, despite losing the 20-somethings. But only just.

It's going to be a massive fall for GW, I think when the price gets 'too high' - as in, almost overnight. It'll simply get to a point where, Little Timmy comes in with his mother, wanting a look at the store, the mother will look at the price for a box, say 'frak that,' turn around and leave before a staffmember can even open his mouth to start the hard sell. Until then, as long as GW can get 2-3 years income out of sufficient Little Timmy's it won't see a reason at all to lift a finger.

pixelpusher wrote:Yeah, that's their end year report? I want to see the marketing/economics-reports correlated with demographics and spending behaviours. What you presented is "just numbers". .

Yeah... I wasn't really trying to answer your marketing question, but you also asked for their financials. Have you tried looking it up yourself?

I'm just responding to people who are saying GW sales have dropped every year since 2001 ( due to LotR ). They dropped to 2006, then have gained every year since. Some people are convinced GW is losing money. The numbers say otherwise.

I also bring this up to point out that the silent majority is throwing a hell of a lot of money at GW for toys, whether that fits with people's preconceptions or not. One area might be facing a backlash, but financially GW is doing better than ever. Just food for thought.


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loner wrote: Now what I can change is myself, I can stop buying from GW and that is what I'm doing. I've stopped buying from GW, because I don't like the changes they make.
(I don't like resin and I don't like the prices.)

Awesome. That's exactly the correct attitude. (no, I'm not being sarcastic). Have you tried Dystopian Wars yet? Hopefully you'll have fun with it, and still have some money left over.

Oh. Sorry if I came off a little tense. I thought it was directed at my post.

The reports I'm referring to is usually bound by a pretty strict NDA, so it's more of a pipe dream having a look at them. Unfortunately, since it would end a lot of assumptions and speculation.