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I've heard GW mention "the silent majority" before, when trying to dismiss all the negative feedback from the web. They are held up as a set of loyal GW customers who accept everything that GW does. They are supposed to understand that GW isn't ripping them off and that the changes & price increases are valid. They like to point out that it's the vocal minority on the web that likes to moan and shout.

Is this really the case? Are "the silent majority" really a valid group? Could it be that they're vocal for other reasons, like time & effort? Could they be silent because they don't see the point in saying anything? Are they silent, but actually do make a protest by just simply not buying so much. I know from time to time I've started to moan on a forum, but stopped halfway through as I'm not able to articulate my response in the way I want. So I end up not posting, but I'm still annoyed.

I expect GW have done a fair bit of market research and understand their core target groups and demographics. As much as we like to think we are important, there is a significant portion of GW customers who don't frequent online gaming websites - this is backed up by the amount of newcomers to Dakka who express surprise that such a community or resource exists.

TLDR - Are there GW customers offline? More than you think.

filbert wrote:I expect GW have done a fair bit of market research and understand their core target groups and demographics. As much as we like to think we are important, there is a significant portion of GW customers who don't frequent online gaming websites - this is backed up by the amount of newcomers to Dakka who express surprise that such a community or resource exists.

TLDR - Are there GW customers offline? More than you think.

Which begs the question as to why they are classed as "quiet". Are they not really bothered either way, happy with everything, can't be bothered to say anything or don't have accees to or know how to use forums?

Well in my expirience anyone who dissagree with the negativeity round here are quickly shouted down, dismissed as "apologists" or "fanboy", or just ignored all together. There are probably allot of people on Dakka who don't have a problem and don't complain because they know its not worth it as it won't change anyones mind.

It's been my experience that most people who play 40K accept that it is far from perfect, and try to adapt their way of thinking to the game. And also lots of them play other games such as Warmachine, Malifaux and Dystopian Wars on the side. I think that is the secret, not being stuck with one system when you get frustrated.

Wolfstan wrote:

filbert wrote:I expect GW have done a fair bit of market research and understand their core target groups and demographics. As much as we like to think we are important, there is a significant portion of GW customers who don't frequent online gaming websites - this is backed up by the amount of newcomers to Dakka who express surprise that such a community or resource exists.

TLDR - Are there GW customers offline? More than you think.

Which begs the question as to why they are classed as "quite". Are they not really bothered either way, happy with everything, can't be bothered to say anything or don't have accees to or know how to use forums?

I think for the vast majority, is because they simply don't know that forums like Dakka exist. Thus the GW party line becomes the accepted view; they aren't exposed to contrary opinions.

Oh there are most certainly a vast majority that have no real issue with GW - to be honest it's swinging pendilums. Dakka is most definately on one far extreme of the spectrum, what with us being a community that has declared that we've quit 40k about 5 times over.

Most people just see new marketing strategies as an interesting twist; Australian prices something that 1) is something Australia is seeing across the board and not just GW (or they aren't Australian); Finecast as better then metal when they either get the kinks out; and general prices something that is a fact about hobbying in general - i.e. funnily enough, a metal Malifaux figure costs the same as a metal GW figure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

filbert wrote:
I think for the vast majority, is because they simply don't know that forums like Dakka exist. Thus the GW party line becomes the accepted view; they aren't exposed to contrary opinions.

Actually I think that this attitude is what keeps many away from Dakka Dakka; that if you actually don't have a huge problem with GW, then you're obviously wrong/a fanboi/sheep etc..

I do believe that there is a slient majority, mainly because I'm willing to bet most of GW's market either: a) doesn't know that communities like dakka exist, or b) just don't care. They pay for their plastic army men, and play the game. Maybe they'll grumble about the prices once in a while, but they just don't care enough to do anything else.

I'm pretty sure that those that hate GW equal or outnumber those that love GW, but that those that love and those that hate GW are vastly outnumbered by those don't care, mostly because they don't know.

So it's a vocal minority, a silent minority, and an ignorant majority.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

So it's a vocal minority, a silent minority, and an ignorant majority.

Rather suspect this is the case. The kids at our group are blissfully unaware of the issues, though they do notice the pain to the parents' wallets.
But not as much as the parents notice. afaik they have limited knowledge of other games and are vaguely aware of forums but do not participate in online discussions.
Realise this is not a scientific sample, but suspect it is not untypical.

Paul, I can onderstand your point of view. Reflex criticism is unfair.
The problem I have with the reflex support of GW is that it flies in the face of what GW do and represent.
The excuses made on GW's behalf are very often unconvincing.

The silent customer is the customer that GW fantasizes about when they sleep during board meetings.

The myth is developed and perpetuated by the sheltered gamer and the uninformed gamer

There are some people in the UK who wouldn't have a clue what it's really like in the rest of the world... only in relation to gaming with GW.

Those people have led a very sheltered GW gaming life under the assumption that what they have access to compared to what the rest of the world has... is fair.

Of course, we, the rest of the world, are our own worst enemy... because we join in on the mainline, worldwide, complaint from ALL gamers... it's too expensive.

There are only two real issues to comment about... (1) the way that GW treats its existing customers (not the newbies), and (2) how they have ignored the internet and how the www operates.

In other words... (1) They entice and excite the ignorant children (to the reality of a unique high end niche hobby) into the front door of the GW wonderland and then kick them out the back door into the gutter as disgruntled vets.

And (2) The www is not just having a mail order shop on the internet instead of the phone... it is the global reality of show and tell... instantly. When you do business utilising the web, you link EVERYONE in the world with your practicies, prices, and mistakes... again, instantly.

You can go on and on and on about rules, packaging, materials, and prices... but at any tick of the clock, you could be describing one company then another... they are all the same... at some time.

But, the above 2 issues are more unique to GW and worthy of comment than the other issues and in truth, can not be passed over as "ranting".

We, the customers in the rest of the world, did not create the www, we did not tell GW to set up shop all over the world (unlike Forgeworld - the same price and conditions no matter where you live), and we didn't invent global internet commerce.

All we did was buy into the GW product line.

We didn't sign up for corporate abuse, lack of customer service (this does not relate to returns or delivery issues), or idiotic business decisions that stiffle product news and product direction.

But we do demand equality with how the customer is treated wether a newcomer, a regular, or a veteran.

If GW had stayed next door to Forgeworld and not expanded (shop wise) globaly, then the rest of the world would have no issue at all.

If they wanted to play globally... then they should operate their business using the correct 'global' rules... like all the other successful international enterprises.

Mik

filbert wrote:I expect GW have done a fair bit of market research and understand their core target groups and demographics. As much as we like to think we are important, there is a significant portion of GW customers who don't frequent online gaming websites - this is backed up by the amount of newcomers to Dakka who express surprise that such a community or resource exists.

TLDR - Are there GW customers offline? More than you think.

Actually, no. GW has never performed any form of market research. They have no idea whatsoever who buys their stuff.

Rather suspect this is the case. The kids at our group are blissfully unaware of the issues, though they do notice the pain to the parents' wallets.
But not as much as the parents notice. afaik they have limited knowledge of other games and are vaguely aware of forums but do not participate in online discussions.
Realise this is not a scientific sample, but suspect it is not untypical.

I think that this is probably a big wedge of the silent majority. Mum & Dad just buy the stuff for the kids, they don't have any real interest in the GW universe. All they do if they aren't happy is cut back on what they buy for the kids, they don't join boards to moan about it. The kids have a grumble at their parents and move onto something else. Not really representative of a "content" customer base is it?

ChrisWWII wrote:b) just don't care. They pay for their plastic army men, and play the game. Maybe they'll grumble about the prices once in a while, but they just don't care enough to do anything else.

This. Nearly.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are happy with the game.

Seriously, is no one here happy with Games Workshop games?

My mates and I are all pretty happy with Games Workshop games.

At the extremes of opinion there is reflex criticism on both sides. The arguments from people nearer the middle of the spectrum are more reasonable.

Anyway, GW's sales have been dropping every year since the end of the LoTR bubble.

Who knows whether the missing customers are fed-up vets or people who would previously have been happy newbies but are put off by the prices? Probably a bit of both.

In general, though, people complain because they care. GW should worry if the volume of complaints dies down; it means that keen players are losing interest in GW and moving to other pursuits.

Korraz wrote:

filbert wrote:I expect GW have done a fair bit of market research and understand their core target groups and demographics. As much as we like to think we are important, there is a significant portion of GW customers who don't frequent online gaming websites - this is backed up by the amount of newcomers to Dakka who express surprise that such a community or resource exists.

TLDR - Are there GW customers offline? More than you think.

Actually, no. GW has never performed any form of market research. They have no idea whatsoever who buys their stuff.

So they are just blindly fumbling around in the dark? Come on - I dislike GW's business practices as much as the next man but let's not pretend they are absolute, dribbling morons with little or no business sense.

And just FYI, they used to run an annual questionnaire in WD - the winner would get a copy of every GW blister and box in production, so actually they have performed market research. I suspect it takes a different form these days though.

Vis. market research. Well, they certainly perform observation of the bigger sites in the online community, like BoLS and Warseer, for example. I've seen bona fide posts for GW employees (always ended badly) on both those two. The probably look at Dakka a bit too. They could be watching riiiight noooow!

By silent majority, then may not mean people who don't post online, but rather people who don't write to them and complain.

The same as allot of times in life the majority are happy enough to just go along with everyone else solong as they do not have to deal with any hassle.

For example, most people will moan about the government but turnout never reaches even near half the total electorate.

Apathy and the easy life rules, so long as there is food on the table and new space marines to paint they will be contented.

Also allot of GWs customers are young or new. They do not know the history or do not have comparable experience to draw on to be that bothered that a boxset now costs a couple of quid more than last month.

filbert wrote:I suspect it takes a different form these days though.

Every piece of each kit contains a small audio/visual pickup, GPS locator (to ensure that stock is not being sold outside designated areas), battery pack and transmitter to monitor and otherwise observe customers and ensure that they are enjoying the GW hobby properly. This is why GW kits cost so much...

Maybe this is the real reason for the switch to resin Silver.
The metal was interfering with the transmission of customer brain waves.

Warning: Please wear tin foil on head when working/playing with non metal GW products!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

So it's a vocal minority, a silent minority, and an ignorant majority.

Rather suspect this is the case. The kids at our group are blissfully unaware of the issues, though they do notice the pain to the parents' wallets.
But not as much as the parents notice. afaik they have limited knowledge of other games and are vaguely aware of forums but do not participate in online discussions.
Realise this is not a scientific sample, but suspect it is not untypical.

Paul, I can onderstand your point of view. Reflex criticism is unfair.
The problem I have with the reflex support of GW is that it flies in the face of what GW do and represent.
The excuses made on GW's behalf are very often unconvincing.

What issues. This is a game of toy soldiers, glorified over monopoly only in being more expensive and having much, much worse rules. most kids rightfully treat it as such. Its only in the land of crazed gamers that any of this matters. Your average geeky little Bobby only cares until he discovers Girlllz.

Well blow me down and cover me in milk shake
Nothing is wrong with the way GW treats its customers and all is well with the world

The silent majority is something that has been shrinking in the last 8 years.

They're a lot easier to miss or not notice because they leave with no fanfare or explosion (like posting on a forum); they just sort of fade away.

Wolfstan wrote:I've heard GW mention "the silent majority" before, when trying to dismiss all the negative feedback from the web. They are held up as a set of loyal GW customers who accept everything that GW does. They are supposed to understand that GW isn't ripping them off and that the changes & price increases are valid. They like to point out that it's the vocal minority on the web that likes to moan and shout.

Is this really the case? Are "the silent majority" really a valid group? Could it be that they're vocal for other reasons, like time & effort? Could they be silent because they don't see the point in saying anything? Are they silent, but actually do make a protest by just simply not buying so much. I know from time to time I've started to moan on a forum, but stopped halfway through as I'm not able to articulate my response in the way I want. So I end up not posting, but I'm still annoyed.

I'll take the group(s) I game with as an example. It consists of about 30 people playing 40K and other games. I'm the only one that posts regularly on any fora. Sure, some of them read forums (We had a pretty funny discussion about Dakka-personalities last week). Some might have thoughts of the price hikes and the way GW handles business. It's not what we talk about when we see each other though. Everyone has the "GW hate" in one way or another though. I guess that's impossible not to get when you start this hobby. But is it so much that everyone turns into HBMC? No.

It's not just GW mentioning the silent majority. This is a case Blizzard argued for as well concerning World of Warcraft vs. Forum-whines.

LOL.

I work in customer service for a household name and one of our core beliefs in addressing customers with complaints is that for every one person calling in or posting online about a problem, there are another 100 that have the same problem or complaint but don't have the gumption or verbal skills to speak up. That's the silent majority.

Gavin Thorne wrote:LOL.

I work in customer service for a household name and one of our core beliefs in addressing customers with complaints is that for every one person calling in or posting online about a problem, there are another 100 that have the same problem or complaint but don't have the gumption or verbal skills to speak up. That's the silent majority.

That's my own feeling about it as well. GW like to come out with smug comments that places like Dakka are a small vocal minority and the silent majority are ok with everything. I don't think that's true at all.

Wolfstan wrote:

Gavin Thorne wrote:LOL.

I work in customer service for a household name and one of our core beliefs in addressing customers with complaints is that for every one person calling in or posting online about a problem, there are another 100 that have the same problem or complaint but don't have the gumption or verbal skills to speak up. That's the silent majority.

That's my own feeling about it as well. GW like to come out with smug comments that places like Dakka are a small vocal minority and the silent majority are ok with everything. I don't think that's true at all.

Me neither. It's one of those buzz words that are almost always used by a company to justify it's shoddiness. Most people aren't emotionally invested enough to make a comment to customer services. They'll vote with their wallets instead. That's when companies like GW are forced to take notice.

filbert wrote:I expect GW have done a fair bit of market research and understand their core target groups and demographics.

Certainly explains the why sales fall every year If I am honestly I have no idea if I am in the minorty or what, I know I have been told a few times I am by someone who likes GW, I just find it interesting that GW fanboys who seem to enjoy being taken for a ride automatically assume they are not in the minorty.

Frazzled wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

So it's a vocal minority, a silent minority, and an ignorant majority.

Rather suspect this is the case. The kids at our group are blissfully unaware of the issues, though they do notice the pain to the parents' wallets.
But not as much as the parents notice. afaik they have limited knowledge of other games and are vaguely aware of forums but do not participate in online discussions.
Realise this is not a scientific sample, but suspect it is not untypical.

Paul, I can onderstand your point of view. Reflex criticism is unfair.
The problem I have with the reflex support of GW is that it flies in the face of what GW do and represent.
The excuses made on GW's behalf are very often unconvincing.

What issues. This is a game of toy soldiers, glorified over monopoly only in being more expensive and having much, much worse rules. most kids rightfully treat it as such. Its only in the land of crazed gamers that any of this matters. Your average geeky little Bobby only cares until he discovers Girlllz.

+1
It some radical attempt to keep the lights on and maybe even turn a profit a global toy maker make decisions to continuously evolve and create new army books and rules sets to keep the models flowing out the door. hmmm. Can't be.

Whats the end state of the hate? See GW close?

To some its "in" to hate GW right now and if you don't, you get flamed. The whole thing is stupid.

Now work out that army list and get your models painted.

Paul wrote:Well in my expirience anyone who dissagree with the negativeity round here are quickly shouted down, dismissed as "apologists" or "fanboy", or just ignored all together. There are probably allot of people on Dakka who don't have a problem and don't complain because they know its not worth it as it won't change anyones mind.

Erm...if they don't have a problem in the first place, why would they even consider complaining?!?

I've found the polar opposite on some forums that I won't mention; no matter how reasonable a post that has an issue with GW may be the poster is quickly shouted down by other users screaming that they "don't have to buy GW stuff" and "have it in for GW" before an overzealous moderator shuts the thread down.

In contrast I've found that there are users around here who fall on both sides of the issue and seem to be able to make their points pretty well.

The customer has a right to an opinion and GW have a right to ignore them, but at the end of the day the relationship comes down to the former being willing to hand over cash for the product that the latter is selling and like it or not that does mean that the latter should at least have an interest in the experience and feelings of the former towards that product.

If GW do indeed have a "silent majority" on which they can rely to buy from them and they think that they are keeping happy then good luck to them, because if not then they're only fooling themselves and everyone involved in their hobby product will suffer when the truth comes back to bite them.