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Huh...

Didn't realize GW was actually increasing in profits...

Thanks for the post, Mastiff.

pixelpusher wrote:Oh. Sorry if I came off a little tense. I thought it was directed at my post.

The reports I'm referring to is usually bound by a pretty strict NDA, so it's more of a pipe dream having a look at them. Unfortunately, since it would end a lot of assumptions and speculation.

No worries man

Try reading the Financial Reports. Not the whole reports, (pretty mind-numbing stuff) but the statements from the director. It won't directly answer your questions, but you'll get a good feel for where they are focussing their efforts. It may indicate whether they are targetting new markets or shoring up existing markets. I just read 2010 and some of 2009.

Cutting costs was their priority, and paying off their sizeable debt.

They put in more efficient systems for handling stock, and that has saved a bunch of money.

New plastic kits, especially packaged deals (starter armies I guess) are seen as their most profitable items.

Smaller stores with improved training and cheaper rent is mentioned.

That's just a snapshot from my inadequate memory, but it does show that marketing may not be the primary concern.

Cryonicleech wrote:Huh...

Didn't realize GW was actually increasing in profits...

Thanks for the post, Mastiff.

Well, Mastiff is correct in saying that GW profit's have been increasing (however little).

However, I have looked at their financial report. And it clearly states that while profits are up, the actual numbers of sales have gone down.

Think about it. The continual price rises? The cutting of staff from GW stores until they're only a one-man operation? That's all been to mask the fact that the actual amount of GW product being bought each year is decreasing.

We'll really see the affect of this when GW prices start getting to high for even the 'target consumers' of GW - that is, the kids who come in, buy a lot, and then sell it second hand - and even they stop buying. After all, why buy a kid a bunch of models he'll get bored with when you can get a nice Wiistation 360 for a lower price?

The "silent majority" is an overused concept in most of political (when I say that, I intend political in a wide meaning) debate, when you don't want to give legitimacy to your detractors ...

Mastiff wrote:

pixelpusher wrote:
I'd also like to see the results of Games Workshops market research. Together with a bunch of the financial reports and memos. Oh, and the memo concerning why they don't appear at non GW-conventions.

Easy enough:

http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalFullYearReport.pdf

FINANCIAL HIGHLIGHTS 2010 2009 Revenue £126.5m £125.7m Revenue at constant currency* £121.8m £125.7m Operating profit - pre-royalties £13.0m £5.5m Royalties receivable £3.1m £3.5m Operating profit £16.1m £9.0m Pre-tax profit £16.1m £7.5m Year end net funds/(borrowings) £17.1m £(1.6)m Earnings per share 48.4p 17.6p

Phew. Formatting that was a chore. Enjoy.

Okay, so sales are down in 2010 from 2009. The only reason that they are not down in reality is due to currency variations. In other words, the new southern embargo.
Expenses are down, so profit is up though. This seems the results of the price hikes. Less volume sold = less costs.

infinite_array wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:Didn't realize GW was actually increasing in profits...

Well, Mastiff is correct in saying that GW profit's have been increasing (however little).

I was looking at 2006 to 2010. Yes, profit increases slowed down in 2010, but made gains over the last five years. 2006 Was pretty dismal.

infinite_array wrote:
However, I have looked at their financial report. And it clearly states that while profits are up, the actual numbers of sales have gone down.

Think about it. The continual price rises? The cutting of staff from GW stores until they're only a one-man operation? That's all been to mask the fact that the actual amount of GW product being bought each year is decreasing.

You're probably right on all accounts. GW's priority seems to have been reducing debt and cutting costs. Profits for the first half of 2011 are down 6%, and this is being blamed on staff cuts. I'm wondering if that's because independent retailers are more valuable to them?

Mastiff wrote:

infinite_array wrote:
However, I have looked at their financial report. And it clearly states that while profits are up, the actual numbers of sales have gone down.

Think about it. The continual price rises? The cutting of staff from GW stores until they're only a one-man operation? That's all been to mask the fact that the actual amount of GW product being bought each year is decreasing.

You're probably right on all accounts. GW's priority seems to have been reducing debt and cutting costs. Profits for the first half of 2011 are down 6%, and this is being blamed on staff cuts. I'm wondering if that's because independent retailers are more valuable to them?

Ehhh...

I don't really know how 'valuable' Independent Retailers are. I think GW would much rather make sales through their own stores, since anything sold there gets GW 100% of the profit. And we have evidence of GW stores moving into areas with IRs, and then shipments to those IRs start coming late, or get lost, etc.

Wolfstan wrote:I've heard GW mention "the silent majority" before, when trying to dismiss all the negative feedback from the web. They are held up as a set of loyal GW customers who accept everything that GW does. They are supposed to understand that GW isn't ripping them off and that the changes & price increases are valid. They like to point out that it's the vocal minority on the web that likes to moan and shout.

Is this really the case? Are "the silent majority" really a valid group? Could it be that they're vocal for other reasons, like time & effort? Could they be silent because they don't see the point in saying anything? Are they silent, but actually do make a protest by just simply not buying so much. I know from time to time I've started to moan on a forum, but stopped halfway through as I'm not able to articulate my response in the way I want. So I end up not posting, but I'm still annoyed.

Yes. Contrary to popular opinion on the internet, MOST of GWs customers aren't even aware that communities like Dakkadakka and warseer exist, much less use them for the purposes that we do (ie, complaining, making our private lists available, showing off our knowledge of fluff).

There IS a very large "silent majority" among their customers. No doubt about it.

infinite_array wrote:
Ehhh...

I don't really know how 'valuable' Independent Retailers are. I think GW would much rather make sales through their own stores, since anything sold there gets GW 100% of the profit. And we have evidence of GW stores moving into areas with IRs, and then shipments to those IRs start coming late, or get lost, etc.

While I was looking for their financials I read that their sales in Europe and North America slipped last year, but their independent retailers improved.

In theory, yeah, they get 100% profit from their own stores, but that's after rent and training. It looks like 40% or so of their GW stores have moved to the single employee model, and they've closed or moved many stores to cheaper digs. Relying on independents allows them to cut costs even further (which seems to be a big part of their 5 year plan). Yeah, there's problems with that model too, so I think they're trying to find the right balance.

No idea which of us is right, but it's always fun to speculate based on the meager info we have.

Mastiff wrote:

infinite_array wrote:
Stuff.

While I was looking for their financials I read that their sales in Europe and North America slipped last year, but their independent retailers improved.

In theory, yeah, they get 100% profit from their own stores, but that's after rent and training. It looks like 40% or so of their GW stores have moved to the single employee model, and they've closed or moved many stores to cheaper digs. Relying on independents allows them to cut costs even further (which seems to be a big part of their 5 year plan). Yeah, there's problems with that model too, so I think they're trying to find the right balance.

No idea which of us is right, but it's always fun to speculate based on the meager info we have.

Yeah, I believe neither of us really have the full idea of what's going on with GW - but I think the financial report for 2011 and 2012 should tell us something. If they're par for the course, then people who doubt GW's business plan will have to admit they're doing alright. If there's a visible decrease, or some sort of 'smoke' to really prevent any notice of decreasing profit, then we'll know somethings going down.

I don't think I've ever been so excited to see a financial report before.

filbert wrote:I think for the vast majority, is because they simply don't know that forums like Dakka exist. Thus the GW party line becomes the accepted view; they aren't exposed to contrary opinions.

I would agree with this, back before my 'wargaming hiatus' when I was about 10 - 14 I was a complete GW fan, I didn't see any problems with them: sure it was expensive but I thought that was normal as I didn't know about any other systems so I had nothing to compare to. Also, I definitely didn't know about places like dakka so the only opinions I was ever gonna hear were in the local GW store.

Now however, I have found dakka and other wargamming prices... (although I don't quite hate GW as much as most seem to, and normally I keep that sort of thing quiet because I can't be bothered to argue, especially as I don't love them completely myself, but I'll be declared a heretic by some for not burning all my GW stuff and punching the staff in the eye).

Time and again a companies indulge in corporate group think

GW is going through such a phase at the moment.

Competition improves the breed ...often but not always drives producers to look harder at their system and their products. GW has no direct competition on the high st and is seeking to use its monopoly and intellectual property rights to extract every penny it can and dominate everything else it can.


This approach puts GW first and its customers second creating a rift between what the customer would like to see and what GW is willing to give.

I have been a member of dozens of forums , have i been never ever ever worried about Mercedes Benz , Honda , Sony , Pioneer , Electronic Arts , Sierra games or any other manufacturer suing me for discussing their products , uploading their manuals , writing detailed articles using numerous photographs extracts or other material that they have produced.

Games workshop is going through a bout of corporate paranoia that is entirely counter productive to their business...that's their problem , i get annoyed when they make it mine too.


Indeed on forums dedicated to other products , users are asked, expected & encouraged by other users and moderators to upload content / intellectual copyright material .
Doing so enables the newcomer to the product to solve problems , and make the most out of their purchase. While in the strictest sense this is not entirely legal no approach to these other forums has been made by these manufacturers. Why ? well part from he fact that the forums actively promote the community that uses products these other companies also understand that the forums act as free PR and help desk for their products. Work done by forumers equates to countless of 1000s of man hours of unpaid work. Here and their the odd person may decide not to purchase a manual or make a help desk call. The loss to the company is inconsequential...the value of that open, self helping community ...priceless.

GW is free to do what it like within the law ....but overreaching in this area is highly counter productive...a lesson that this particular company has yet to learn.




M$ is well aware that its market dominance is due in great part to the zillions of dodgy copies of windows products out there. They dont like it , and will purse any profiteer taking the biscuit but in general they let it pass as its A good for business and B cannot be justified in terms of PR or lawyers cost to pursue minor infringements.

Im not asking anyone to break the law , or encourage them to do so. I am merely pointing out the fact that 99% of the companies out their and 99% of the forums which support their products , many forums often blatantly abusing copyright law for the benefit of the community and are happy with the situation as it greatly benefits the companies and their related communities and creates a positive feedback loop.




GW current approach is appalling ....i even watched a youtube video of a manager of Miniatures Store (remian namles but many will know who it is this company buys a lot of their products ) do an open video pleading to GW to ease the restrictive practices it has in place.




If the moderators interest is in supporting their community, then it would be of great benefit to the community if an open letter was sent to GW by the Moderators and signed by forum users. To the effect that GW aggressive stance on copyright is hindering free and open discussion of their products and is a barrier to those who may wish to dip there toe in the waters of the GW universe....In short to highlight what to many is common sense as an internet user , and what is also common sense when it comes to good business practice.

Lets just get tis right....

GW plc are listening to the 'silent' part of thier customer base.Because the vocal part of thier custmoer base just critiques the way GW plc develops its games and markets its products.


GW plc.'We know what we are doing because some people are still buying product'.

Vocal customers ,'Who is that then?'

GW plc ,'The silent majority.'

Vocal customers, 'How do you know they are in the majority'.

GW plc ' Beacause sales volumes have not dropped below 50% yet, they are only 44% lower than they were .'

Vocal customers.'So when they get to 51% , will you listen to the vocal majority.'

GW plc ' God no, it will be far to late then!'

Mastiff wrote:

I'm just responding to people who are saying GW sales have dropped every year since 2001 ( due to LotR ). They dropped to 2006, then have gained every year since. Some people are convinced GW is losing money. The numbers say otherwise.

It's not losing money, but this blog post is worth reading, and a bit of an eye opener.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/help-kirby-is-eating-our-hobby.html

infinite_array wrote:

Mastiff wrote:

infinite_array wrote:
However, I have looked at their financial report. And it clearly states that while profits are up, the actual numbers of sales have gone down.

Think about it. The continual price rises? The cutting of staff from GW stores until they're only a one-man operation? That's all been to mask the fact that the actual amount of GW product being bought each year is decreasing.

You're probably right on all accounts. GW's priority seems to have been reducing debt and cutting costs. Profits for the first half of 2011 are down 6%, and this is being blamed on staff cuts. I'm wondering if that's because independent retailers are more valuable to them?

Ehhh...

I don't really know how 'valuable' Independent Retailers are. I think GW would much rather make sales through their own stores, since anything sold there gets GW 100% of the profit. And we have evidence of GW stores moving into areas with IRs, and then shipments to those IRs start coming late, or get lost, etc.

Actually selling to Indy stores is the most profitable for GW. Far less overheads involved, no?

Mastiff wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Ummm...

I could be reading that wrong but it looks like they increased their profit from 2009 to 2010.

If I'm mistaken, please tell me.

They've increased their profits every year since 2006 IIRC, but their 2011 profits are down 6% which is being blamed on staff layoffs (moving to one-person stores I guess). I'll grab a link.

Overall sales declined in North America and Northern Europe, but apparently sales through independent retailers in those territories actually grew.

EDIT:

Yeah, they've increased profits every year since 2006. I think that was their worst year, where they took a real nosedive, but I'd have to look that up.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=GAW:LN

2007 2008 2009 2010 TOTAL REVENUES 109.5 110.3 125.7 126.5 GROSS PROFIT 77.8 77.4 89.8 95.8

First of all let me post this. This was on top of the data sheet you have posted.
Financial Statements for GAMES WORKSHOP GROUP PLC (GAW)
Year over year, Games Workshop Group plc has been able to grow their bottom line from 5.5M GBp to 15.1M GBp despite relatively flat revenues.

The key word is Flat revenues.

Second of all there is nothing to the fact that about it's customer base. This data sheet only tells me that like many other companies are doing, they are cutting staff, Raising prices, etc, to make "their bottom line" so that it -looks puuuurty- to their investors.

As I have and many other people have stated on this site. People vote with their pocket books. IMHO the customer base which includes the Silent Majority is shrinking. The data posted here reflects that aspect as well as the financial papers posted by the GW site.

KillKrazy (and others) has been spot on their research.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:

Mastiff wrote:

I'm just responding to people who are saying GW sales have dropped every year since 2001 ( due to LotR ). They dropped to 2006, then have gained every year since. Some people are convinced GW is losing money. The numbers say otherwise.

It's not losing money, but this blog post is worth reading, and a bit of an eye opener.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/help-kirby-is-eating-our-hobby.html

Excellent blog site!!!

Mr Mystery wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

Mastiff wrote:

infinite_array wrote:
However, I have looked at their financial report. And it clearly states that while profits are up, the actual numbers of sales have gone down.

Think about it. The continual price rises? The cutting of staff from GW stores until they're only a one-man operation? That's all been to mask the fact that the actual amount of GW product being bought each year is decreasing.

You're probably right on all accounts. GW's priority seems to have been reducing debt and cutting costs. Profits for the first half of 2011 are down 6%, and this is being blamed on staff cuts. I'm wondering if that's because independent retailers are more valuable to them?

Ehhh...

I don't really know how 'valuable' Independent Retailers are. I think GW would much rather make sales through their own stores, since anything sold there gets GW 100% of the profit. And we have evidence of GW stores moving into areas with IRs, and then shipments to those IRs start coming late, or get lost, etc.

Actually selling to Indy stores is the most profitable for GW. Far less overheads involved, no?

You're absolutely correct! Not that that's what GW's been doing, but yes - they could make far more money if they encouraged more independent retailers.

It's not losing money, but this blog post is worth reading, and a bit of an eye opener.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/help-kirby-is-eating-our-hobby.html

Great article. It's nice to know that Kirby is actually taking GW for a ride.

When they say the silent majority, GW mean the 8 year olds who spend their weekly sweetie money on warhammer instead.

Article, or opinion? Because, you know, there is a lot of opinion, and a bit of a conclusion jump.

And tell me, what makes the most sense to getting your business properly back on it's feet again? Ensuring you are profitable with what you have, or trying to increase sales with current running costs? One has an immediate, palpable impact. The other, well, you could be flailing around for yonks and not really achieve anything.

Now the latter does of course have to happen, but the former is clearly a higher priority. It's like when you have your own place. Having not long moved into my own little flat, I can tell you that my main priority is learning to live within my immediate means. This means less take-out, investing in a freezer as it means cheaper food, turning the leccy off when I go out, that sort of thing. Having established what my means are, then I can worry about getting a higher disposable income.

Not saying the article is necessarily wrong (but once again, the writer seems genuinely surprised that GW is a business, out to make as much money as possible for it's owners. You know, like every other business in the world) but there is massive conclusion jump, used to prop up their own opinion. Interesting of course, that earlier in the year, following a particularly crappy winter, they issued a profits warning. Now, it's quite the opposite, namely 'cor lummee, we've made more than we expected'. Whilst price rises are of course at least partially responsible, it seems unlikely it is the sole causation, no?

filbert wrote:I expect GW have done a fair bit of market research and understand their core target groups and demographics. As much as we like to think we are important, there is a significant portion of GW customers who don't frequent online gaming websites - this is backed up by the amount of newcomers to Dakka who express surprise that such a community or resource exists.

TLDR - Are there GW customers offline? More than you think.

I have to question whether this market research this actually takes place.

Like I said in another thread, I am a resident gamer at WHW. I know no one who takes part in any market research so where is it happening? It used to be the case that locals were invited to take part in testing ect, that doesn't happen now.

looks like they made a loss in 2007

http://londonglossy.com/2011/01/games-workshop-hit-by-falling-sales/

Profits rising in small steps after a loss doesn't tell you much.

Ref
It's going to be a massive fall for GW, I think when the price gets 'too high' - as in, almost overnight. It'll simply get to a point where, Little Timmy comes in with his mother, wanting a look at the store, the mother will look at the price for a box, say 'frak that,' turn around and leave before a staffmember can even open his mouth to start the hard sell. Until then, as long as GW can get 2-3 years income out of sufficient Little Timmy's it won't see a reason at all to lift a finger.

I agree , a price hike will break the camels back at some stage.





I wont bore you with economic theory but i will say a couple of things.

1 economies of scale allow you to cut costs but beyond a certain size no more gains can be made. For very large companies , large size start to add extra costs.
2 pricing vs costs. its roughly like a bell curve , price too high and the volume of sales drops off even quicker resulting in less profit.

I think they are aiming for the right hand side of the curve , happy to shift a few less units but with a larger profit margin. ( like Apple computers, lots of PR but reasonable quality goods in shiny boxes to back it up )



Key is this

Buyer Inertia means that customers will continue purchasing at the higher price for a short while. This can cause the seller to believe their strat is working better than it actually is....they hike prices yet again, pushing even further to the right of the bell curve. Suddenly sales collapse, the short term boost from buyer inertia no longer their. New entrants scared off by the prices and the recent history of price rises that they will soon pick up on during their investigations.

The second hand market gets boosted , ebay , internet and high "buy new costs" . Negativity , and looking for ways to avoid handing over dosh to GW start to proliferate.

I was going to buy Telion and a Librarian, sod GW prices i said to myself 28quid for 5 terminators ? So a modded a couple of nilla marines and saved myself nearly 30quid.

Id love to run Battle Sisters or IG as well as SM But not at their prices. GW prices are 2 or 3 times higher than many other military miniatures. You see its not just the $$$ amount. Its the fact that i know im paying " way over the odds" that irks me. Miniatures have a high mark up in the first place so for me its a double insult.



Leadership & vision also play a key role. If this is lacking then shrinking the business and say focusing on selling to little timmy will give them a niche their heads can handle. A child is easier to please than an adult. Powerrangers cartoon or Shakespeare ? It takes wisdom to read the mind of an adult or compete across a diverse range of markets. Little Timmies of the world vs 7 billion souls of which a % could be sold too if they decided to go global. War & war gaming is a universal human activity & has been since the dawn of man.

Pacific wrote:
It's not losing money, but this blog post is worth reading, and a bit of an eye opener.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/help-kirby-is-eating-our-hobby.html

What a very depressing article!!

In every type of business there is a minority of consumer that verify their receipt, check all the prices, use coupons and sales. Those consumers are the one that keep the business honest for the rest of the consumer group. They are normally vocal and arer the one that complain to the business bureau, tv shows and review magazines. Business normally try to please that small group because they know that they will be in trouble if those consumers are getting out of controls. In the case of GW it looks like they try to ignore us.

Normally a company will talk about the silent majority to try to discredit them as zealous and extremists in front of the stakeholder and other consumers when the first complaints are heard. But that number grow and at some point they cannot ignore them anymore. Meamwhile that silent majority that the manager talk about continue to not express themselves. The tipping point where the criticism grow create a crisis in the manager that tried to ignore the vocal group. Often instead of making a reforms to please that group they will dismiss and distort points that get raised. A manager that act like that is going to be in deep trouble later.

There is a lot of reason that the silent majority won't express themselves from time to spend on forums, degree of involvment to just agree with a post to a point where there is nothing to add. In a restaurant a lot of people won't say how bad it was and not comeback instead of talking because they are afraid of what they could receive inside the meal if they complained. It is not because they are silent that they are in agreement with the company and their products. but here is some stat from the 2009 holiday shopping season:

60%+ of shoppers use search engines (eMarketer/RetailMeNot fall survey)
30% say social media influences their decisions (Comscore Q4 State of Retail Report)
13-50% say online ratings and reviews are important (eMarketer/Deloitte and Comscore Q4 SoR)
<10% suggest Facebook, Twitter or online videos influenced their shopping (Comscore, Shop.org eHoliday Study)

So even if we are a vocal minority we are the one that the silent majority hear about

Since we are on a war forum here is a link to the silent majority speech of Nixon that coin the term http://watergate.info/nixon/silent-majority-speech-1969.shtml
We all know how it finished

Tom Kirby base salary is £392,000

M N wells £ 250,000
K G Rowntree £ 150,000

You can dload the PDF and get a feel for what they are doing

http://investor.games-workshop.com/latest_results/default.aspx

The general trick is to float the company and give yourself a nice bonus / share options which you take/off load at the appropriate time

Owning 100 million quids of assets puts you at risk of losing it if it goes tits up

However just controlling 100 million quids of assets still gives you most of the benefits while minimizing your exposure to risk. You do have to file public reports and obey extra rules when you float a company and you are at risk from hostile takeovers.

Life is a game , 40k is a game and running GW is a game

It looks like they actually own the shops , if so this helps reduce outgoings and running costs. But it does make it ripe for asset striping should the biz be sold of in time of hardship




While no human can possibly be worth > 100k directly ( you only have one brain and a pair of hands ) modern communications allow a flat management pyramid , little need for middle management , their salaries and costs. Strong decisions can be taken quickly the + The downside is that middle management often added a lot of wisdom and extra hands on deck in difficult times. Group think & politics is more likely at the top of a flat pyramid , especially with all the jelly beans a mere arms reach away.

Monster Rain wrote:

pixelpusher wrote:Yeah, that's their end year report? I want to see the marketing/economics-reports correlated with demographics and spending behaviours. What you presented is "just numbers".

Does all that jibba jabba really matter when the end result is increased profit?

Nope. While it's nice to know where your profit came from, the fact that you made a profit, or increased it, is the main thing.

There are certainly cases where a big business is unprofitable, but seen as doing good, especially in a start up. (Amazon). Becoming profitable is the key to success. You can only lose money for so long.

And there are cases where a business is profitable for a number of years, but may not be sustainable. It's hard to catagorize GW this way, as much as some people want to, because the way they do business is changing and adapting. If they continue to be profitable, they are obviously doing something right.

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Yes. Contrary to popular opinion on the internet, MOST of GWs customers aren't even aware that communities like Dakkadakka and warseer exist, much less use them for the purposes that we do (ie, complaining, making our private lists available, showing off our knowledge of fluff).

Unless GW has somehow magically managed to tap into a vast underground network of people who refuse to do web searches, I have always found this to be a faulty premise. Search for "Warhammer" on google and Bell of Lost Souls show up on the first page. Search for "40k" and it shows up on the second page. I do not know how things work in the US, but over here in the cold (currently wet) european north, 10-year olds attend "how to sort the chaff from the gems on the internet" courses in school, because it is the primary way they access and search for information outside their schools. GW's primary customer group - children and young adults - are entirely capable of finding these sites by themselves.

"Silent majorities" are just (since the word ceased to mean "dead people") a political buzzword where the one who uses it attempts to make it seem as if he is on the side of those who so far have not taken any interest in the matters at hand. Sometimes it fools them. Sometimes it does not.

mikhaila.
My main concern over GW plc , is the fact they are continuing to loose sales volumes.
(Apparently at an ever increasing rate.)

And the amount of negative feed back appears to be escalating too.

Could you please let me know what GW plc are doing DIRECTLY to address these issues.(The reasons you feel confident in the company.)

Mr Wells stock responce seems to be the current course of action is being justified by the 'silent majority'.

If these people are silent, how does he know they approve of GW plc actions?
And how does he know they are in the majority?

The reality is GW's bottom line sales arn't as high as they used to be in the past and although they are remaining profitable there are good reasons for this.

Reducing staff numbers (from 4ish to one man stores) creates huge saving across many stores and affects there bottom line.

Closing stores affects there bottom line. Raising prices to compensate for the drop in volume affects the bottom line. There IP (books, computer games etc have generated money to fill in for sales).

The bottom line is the only thing share holders care about and often the last thing tabletop gamers care about.

The top brass in GW have stock options that mean they have a very real interest in ensuring that the share price goes up as the golden handshake is what matters most to them.

Cutting a company to the bone to raise the share price is not a new thing, they are not the first and will not be the last.

They do not sell resources they sell luxury items and this is a dangerous practice for the long term health of the company.

Don't get me wrong I want this company to do well as I love this hobby but I call BS on how they are running things at the moment.

I realize there are peoples livelihood that depends on this company doing well but the truth is they are shrinking as a company.

Looking at the forum people are not accepting and moving on, there is still a high level of unrest.

Maybe your neck of the woods is fine and that is great for you, however in my city (in Australia) all is not well.

I hear a lot that GW's main competitors are other miniature companies, however I firmly believe that computer games are their biggest threat. Instant gratification for much less money and effort.

What fully aware parent in their right mind would allow their child to take up this hobby at current pricing in Australia.

This is how I see the situation at the moment and I guess I should expect the regular crew of GW Fanboi's to step in and defend the company's honor and all I can say to you is we are all in the same boat but apparently you enjoy being treated this way.

The silent majority are an unquantified element and unless someone knows of actual credible market research conducted (I sure they do it, does cut it), remains a scapegoat to silence their detractors.

Lanrak wrote:
My main concern over GW plc , is the fact they are continuing to loose sales volumes.
...

As has been pointed out many times before, this is a company that is selling a completely unnecessary luxury good during the worst recession of any of our lifetimes. Do you really expect sales to grow during this period?

Repentance wrote:
The reality is GW's bottom line sales arn't as high as they used to be in the past and although they are remaining profitable there are good reasons for this.

You mean, they're remaining profitable because they're being managed intelligently. You're thinking like a hobbyist. Try thinking like an investor instead. I've checked several sites and GW's financial outlook is reported being good on all of them. You -think- that volume is falling off dangerously, but they're still in business, revenue is flat, perhaps a little down, but costs are also down and they're making a profit. That's not unhealthy, and you have to consider the economic climate.

Selling niche-market luxury toys at a time where many people are struggling to put food on the table or pay their bills is not a realistic time to expect your business to grow. You tighten your belt and do what you can until the economy turns around, as GW are doing. People are having their homes foreclosed on, and you think they'd still be buying their toy soldiers if they cost $10 less per box? I don't think so. I see no evidence to support the idea that masses of people are fleeing the company because of the costs. I see reasonable evidence to support the idea that people are leaving the company because they cannot afford it - but that's subtly different.

This is how I see the situation at the moment and I guess I should expect the regular crew of GW Fanboi's to step in and defend the company's honor and all I can say to you is we are all in the same boat but apparently you enjoy being treated this way.

First of all, insulting anyone who has a different opinion from you, calling them fanboi's or whatever, doesn't add to your credibility. Secondly, no we don't enjoy being treated this way. No one likes higher prices. Unfortunately, they're a fact of life. I'm paying more for gasoline, more for food, more for electricity, more for necessities. This is how the world works. I may not want to pay more for my toy soldiers, but I accept that prices rise, and do not find malice nor incompetence in the decisions that have led to the prices being raised. That's apparently where we differ.

Redbeard wrote:

Lanrak wrote:
My main concern over GW plc , is the fact they are continuing to loose sales volumes.
...

As has been pointed out many times before, this is a company that is selling a completely unnecessary luxury good during the worst recession of any of our lifetimes. Do you really expect sales to grow during this period?

Except unit volumes have been falling further back than the recession.

Repentance wrote:
The reality is GW's bottom line sales arn't as high as they used to be in the past and although they are remaining profitable there are good reasons for this.

You mean, they're remaining profitable because they're being managed intelligently. You're thinking like a hobbyist. Try thinking like an investor instead. I've checked several sites and GW's financial outlook is reported being good on all of them. You -think- that volume is falling off dangerously, but they're still in business, revenue is flat, perhaps a little down, but costs are also down and they're making a profit. That's not unhealthy, and you have to consider the economic climate.