Finished with the GW beast

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**FabricatorGeneralMike**

Oh no......., what did I start?

I forgot that paragraph's are your friends when posting online....sighs...

**brettz123**

Kanluwen wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Except WoW was actually considered its own thing for quite awhile.

By whom?

WoW has always been a MMO, not a special separate type of game that nothing else emulates. It came after many other MMO, and many MMO's have come after it. It is the most successful, but please don't equate 'successful' with 'separate entity'.

Early on I remember hearing reviewers say that WoW was considered to be the "new breed of MMO".

Whether or not it's true or hype because of how successful they predicted it to be or just Blizzard's typical BS?
Dunno.

I'm not sure why you keep drinking the GW cool-aid but just because a company hypes themselves as a separate hobby doesn't make it so. GW is simply just another miniature and gaming company. What they are not is a separate hobby. You buy miniatures, hopefully you paint them, and hopefully you play some games and have fun with them. No different then a multitude of other companies and certainly no different then any other part of the wargaming hobby......

**augustus5**

Who cares if GW hypes itself as it's own hobby. I don't know any players who feel that way. How did this repetitive thread devolve into something even worse?

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

I care

I care because GW provide a hobby from which a lot of people get a lot of pleasure

GW have been behaving rather erratically and imho part of the reason is they have come to believe their own hype

Also some fans believe this and fail to see beyond the GW message

Whatever the annual report is going to say GW is a bit messed up at the moment.

While it is fine and we move on to other games and enjoy the hobby through other companies, it is sad to see GW shooting itself in the foot so often it is peppered with more holes than a Finecast model

The situation won't change while GW has a fallacious self image of its place in the market.

**H.B.M.C.**

RatBot wrote:Welp, 30 seconds in and it's already pretty bad.

Well I never said it was a good cartoon. And speaking of TV shows.

Star Ship Troopers:
1 Novel
3 Movies
1 Television Series
1 Miniature War Game
1 RPG
2 video games (that I know of)

Hobby?

**snake**

n0t_u wrote:
FITZZ wrote:

" I don't care what anyone says...I think Finecast are fantastic!!!"

"Just look at the detail on this finely crafted Emperor's Champion"

/thread

/dakka

/40k

/world

**RatBot**

I agree with Chibi.

I may spew anger and venom, but it's only because I like GW's games and I really wish they'd get their heads out of their rears. I know that as a publicly traded company the highest priority is profit for their shareholders, but they should be attempting to do this without alienating their customers and at least pretend to appreciate them. I'm not saying they should bend over backward and kowtow and cater to us, but they should at least try to have some respect.

If nothing else they should consider their long term viability. Their plan to increase profits in the face of flagging sales seems to involve shutting down underperforming hobby centres, opening new ones seemingly at random, raising prices, and tightening control of distribution and the rumor mill.

Well, once they've closed down all the hobby centres they can, what then? Then all they can do is raise prices, which will reach a point where even the die-hard fans will stop paying, and I imagine, even as GW hangs up the "Gone Out of Business" sign, Mark Wells and the board will be scratching their heads, wondering how this happened. After all, their plan was brilliant.

Essentially, I like GWs games. I want to like GW. But they make it impossible.

**H.B.M.C.**

RatBot wrote:I agree with Chibi.

I may spew anger and venom, but it's only because I like GW's games and I really wish they'd get their heads out of their rears. I know that as a publicly traded company the highest priority is profit for their shareholders, but they should be attempting to do this without alienating their customers and at least pretend to appreciate them. I'm not saying they should bend over backward and kowtow and cater to us, but to at least try to have some respect.

If nothing else they should consider their long term viability. Their plan to increase profits in the face of flagging sales seems to involve shutting down underperforming hobby centres, opening new ones seemingly at random, raising prices, and tightening control of distribution and the rumor mill.

Well, once they've closed down all the hobby centres they can, what then? Then all they can do is raise prices, which will reach a point where even the die-hard fans will stop paying, and I imagine, even as GW hangs up the "Gone Out of Business" sign, Mark Wells and the board will be scratching their heads, wondering how this happened. After all, their plan was brilliant.

Couldn’t agree more (well, other than I’ve passed the point of wanting GW to get their heads out of their rear and just want them to fall over and die). There’s no other way to say it really.

However, for expressing this opinion I’ve actually been accused by someone here of having a mental disorder. Yeah. Pretty amazing right? My alternate personalities and my imaginary friends certainly thought so. I’ll have to bring that up with my therapist/parole officer next time I see him. I need scissors! 61!!!

*ahem*

RatBot wrote:Essentially, I like GWs games. I want to like GW. But they make it impossible.

About as succinct as one can get, and yet we still have people telling us that we’re ‘wrong’ to think the way we do. What’s wrong is blindly accepting whatever a company does without ever asking why or analysing the decisions behind it.

**-Loki-**

I think people are just tired of seeing the same posts over and over and over again. Even in threads not about how bad GW is. You just randomly show up and thread gak everywhere, the same thing. over and over. People get it already.

**Steelmage99**

I must say I find it rather relevant.

I believe we have had strong indications that GW, contrary to popular belief, actually acknowledges the existence of the internet in general and GW-related forums specifically.
This has, most tangibly, taken the form of inspiration for the content of their FAQs.

I believe it is important to show GW that they have reached an arguably all-time high in customer dissatisfaction.
This, I believe, should not take the form of one or two consolidated threads in which people are gathered and complain, thus making it easy for GW to ignore.

Rather it should take the form of individual statements presented in a mature and heartfelt way, like the OP.

I do realize that this might be seen as "cluttering up" the board with threads containing the same basic message. However I do believe it is what we need right now.

As is often suggested when it comes to other threads oft-repeated, simply ignore the ones with a subject that doesn't interest you and move along to more enjoyable endeavours.

**-Loki-**

Steelmage99 wrote:I do realize that this might be seen as "cluttering up" the board with threads containing the same basic message. However I do believe it is what we need right now.

As is often suggested when it comes to other threads oft-repeated, simply ignore the ones with a subject that doesn't interest you and move along to more enjoyable endeavours.

It would be easier to do that if the 'anti-GW' crowd didn't just thread gak in random threads.

**hungryp**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I care because GW provide a hobby from which a lot of people get a lot of pleasure

GW have been behaving rather erratically and imho part of the reason is they have come to believe their own hype

Too true! Consider how many times you've had one or more of these conversations:

"It's a role-playing game."
"Oh, like Dungeons and Dragons!"

"It's an online game."
"Oh, like World of Warcraft!"

"It's a wargame."
"Oh, like Warhammer!"

Unfortunately GW seem far too happy to go along with the opinion of the ignorant masses who only recognize the most popular example of any given fringe interest and have let it go entirely to their heads.

**infinite_array**

hungryp wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I care because GW provide a hobby from which a lot of people get a lot of pleasure

GW have been behaving rather erratically and imho part of the reason is they have come to believe their own hype

Too true! Consider how many times you've had one or more of these conversations:

"It's a role-playing game."
"Oh, like Dungeons and Dragons!"

"It's an online game."
"Oh, like World of Warcraft!"

"It's a wargame."
"Oh, like Warhammer!"

Unfortunately GW seem far too happy to go along with the opinion of the ignorant masses who only recognize the most popular example of any given fringe interest and have let it go entirely to their heads.

D&D and WoW are great examples of what GW should be doing.

Think about it. How many classes, feats and equipment can you find on the internet to bring into your games of D&D? How many various mods are available for WoW, thanks to Blizzard? And think of how responsive WoTC and Blizzard (especially) are to their fanbase.

But GW? It's their way, or the highway.

**Worglock**

Pael wrote:After a long hard think about a year or so now I have decided to give up the ghost on my Games Workshop stuff.

Here are my reasons.
1- Chaos Space Marines, it sadly was the start of the fall. I played the newest codex for two years but never could get hyped about it. My armies weren't as creative, my game play not as effective.
2- Recent garbage, I had pretty much shelved everything and had just started selling all of my 40k armies when the current news slop hit the band waves. I muddled through though. I thought I would play fantasy and hold out for a brighter 40k future but then the third reason appeared.
3- New games, there are so many new games I would rather support and spend chunks of money on instead of my GW fantasy gits(read this as miniatures).

Dystopian Wars has revitalized my imagination for tactics, strategy, and war gaming like no other. Let alone Hell Dorado, Dust Tactics, Infinity, Bushido, and many many others. I CAN NOT in good conscience continue support the machine that is GW. I must broaden my horizons and support these newcomers to ensure a brighter newer more competitive gaming culture that we have never yet before seen.

I remember when I first started war gaming. Company’s such as Fasa, Target and many others were in their prime and now we have finally come full circle. More companies are out there in the market plying there trade to provide their own interpretation of gaming fun and I finally feel like a kid again when I go to the game store, so much to choose from and not enough time.

I hereby proclaim that yes we should stop the GW hate, yes we should stop the bashing and the moaning. We should start forgetting about GW and start the praising of the new systems out there.

Let us leave behind these chains and walls that have been clasped to our wrists and built around our imaginations and take a full step out into the new open future that is waiting for us.

Can I have your stuff?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

infinite_array wrote:
hungryp wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

I care because GW provide a hobby from which a lot of people get a lot of pleasure

GW have been behaving rather erratically and imho part of the reason is they have come to believe their own hype

Too true! Consider how many times you've had one or more of these conversations:

"It's a role-playing game."
"Oh, like Dungeons and Dragons!"

"It's an online game."
"Oh, like World of Warcraft!"

"It's a wargame."
"Oh, like Warhammer!"

Unfortunately GW seem far too happy to go along with the opinion of the ignorant masses who only recognize the most popular example of any given fringe interest and have let it go entirely to their heads.

D&D and WoW are great examples of what GW should be doing.

Think about it. How many classes, feats and equipment can you find on the internet to bring into your games of D&D? How many various mods are available for WoW, thanks to Blizzard? And think of how responsive WoTC and Blizzard (especially) are to their fanbase.

But GW? It's their way, or the highway.

No. DnD and WoW are -not- what GW should be doing.

You are a terrible person for even suggesting that.

**Goddard**

Worglock wrote:No. DnD and WoW are -not- what GW should be doing.

...care to elaborate?

**Worglock**

-Loki- wrote:
Steelmage99 wrote:I do realize that this might be seen as "cluttering up" the board with threads containing the same basic message. However I do believe it is what we need right now.

As is often suggested when it comes to other threads oft-repeated, simply ignore the ones with a subject that doesn't interest you and move along to more enjoyable endeavours.

It would be easier to do that if the 'anti-GW' crowd didn't just thread gak in random threads.

It's pretty amazing how much they are allowed to do that, but then how quickly the moderators will come rushing to their defense when they get called out or get their feelings hurt.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

I don't know what "thread gak" means.

It would be easier to do that if the 'anti-GW' crowd didn't just thread gak in random threads.

It's pretty amazing how much they are allowed to do that, but then how quickly the moderators will come rushing to their defense when they get called out or get their feelings hurt.

Are these examples?
or should we maybe keep on topic and just assume it is trolling?

**Worglock**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I don't know what "thread gak" means.

It would be easier to do that if the 'anti-GW' crowd didn't just thread gak in random threads.

It's pretty amazing how much they are allowed to do that, but then how quickly the moderators will come rushing to their defense when they get called out or get their feelings hurt.

Are these examples?
or should we maybe keep on topic and just assume it is trolling?

aww. you mad.

**RatBot**

Look at Worglock's post history... a quick skim looks like he's just trolling. I like this gem:

It's because people like you are bad for the hobby and they want you to go play Warmafail.

He could at least try to make logical arguments. I may disagree with Kanluwen, but he does attempt back up his claims.

I actually haven't gone into any "happy with GW threads" and gakked all over them. If you don't like people being mean to poor widdle GW, Worglock, don't click these threads.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

We all stray from the path from time to time, it is the nature of discussions.
But keeping on topic is generally held to be "A Good Thing".

So unless the rules are also mad...
We can always ask the mods for their opinion on the matter.

**Bullockist**

I'd be pretty happy if kanluwen or worglock or hbmc, stopped turning up to threads and turning it into "i'm finally gonna win the on-running argument( Just look at me i just beat (person) in an argument)". We know your views, why keep derailing threads. If someone is quitting GW , why should they not post?
They should not have to justify it to you. I have no idea why you need to tell someone that they shouldn't open a new thread for this. It IS a new topic for them. Just because somehow you view that someone quitting GW and their reasons is an argument you need to refute, i don't know. They are their reasons....deal with it.
As for trying to justify "GW Hobby" gimme a break, Dunlop, now developing the driving hobby.
GW Hobby is nothing,it is a marketing term :/.
Perhaps Dakkadakka now developing the pointless argument hobby.

**reds8n**

Indeed.

Or there is also the useful "ignore feature" that users can implement too.

But comments like " aww. you mad " really don't help or add anything to a discussion. So please avoid posting their like in the future. Ta.

**infinite_array**

Edited out.

**RatBot**

Getting back to the topic at hand (and I do apologize for playing a role in the derailment, but I could let the "there's a difference between the wargaming hobby and the GW hobby" comment stand), GW's questionable policies could not have come at a better time for gamers. We have so many other options, it's almost overwhelming. Alas there are few 28mm sci-fi/fantasy mass combat games (Kings of War, Warpath, and Wargods of Aegyptus are the only ones I know of), but there's a veritable smorgasbord of other games... skirmish games in various settings, naval games, mech games, sci-fi and fantasy games in other scales (6-15mm seems to be the most common), not to mention the plethora of historicals available. Indeed, even as GW digs its own grave, the hobby is expanding and is constantly moving to a better place.

**Bullockist**

I want to hear more of posts like this. Without posts like this i would have no idea that the awesome sculpts of infinity existed, i would have no idea that quite a few smaller gaming systems existed. Personally i'm considering a move to warmachine or infinity so i like hearing of peoples diversification of games, and their experiences thereof. In regard to this type of thread , I WANT MoOOORE... IN SPAAACE!

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Well you have come to the right place

there is also a thread about a golden age of gaming where you can further express boundless joy to those celebrating all things gaming that is not GW

**gr1m_dan**

All hail Infinity.

That is all...

In all seriousness though guys I am a fairly new gamer (Just got in to 40k BEFORE the huge derailment, early 2000s) so I was never in their "golden age" when all seemed fun and fair at GW HQ (Which was ironically about a 5 minute walk from my house in Eastwood).

To be honest I am not sure why some of you really REALLY seem to care that much about what they are doing? It's like they have taken away your family and demand you play their game or else. We don't need to moan about them as it doesn't solve anything, just go play another system for feths sake.

I play Infinity, FoW, Malifaux but still enjoy 40k for what it is. Saying that...I want a new god damn Tau codex.

**Howard A Treesong**

GW stores have supplanted the independents over the last 20 years in the UK with their somewhat aggressive business expansionism. That is not good for the hobby, it's like if every regular car garage was replaced by a Ford main dealer. All you could buy or get repaired were Ford cars and all the garages would be horribly expensive and run by people who are salesmen first and mechanics second. That is what GW has done, that's the feeling I get when I go in their stores, it's like a main car dealer, it's corporate and single minded. A real hobby store is a wonderful place to explore and full of wonders as you can see all sorts of different games and models and other products. GW is more akin to McDonalds with it's aggressive corporate image, every store is the same in appearance an carries similar stock. I usually give GW a skip to avoid the sales patter and because I can see all the stuff online. Independent stores are a wonderful thing, don't let GW kill them off America.

**gr1m_dan**

If it wasn't for me walking past a GW in Nottingham when I was very young I would have never got into wargaming. Sad but true, I owe them that.

Still I cannot disagree with you that a good Indie store is a great place. Maelstrom is brilliant and I am really glad I have moved most of my gaming from Warhammer World to there. Although my wallet isn't so happy these days :(

**Goddard**

gr1m_dan wrote:All hail Infinity.

That is all...

In all seriousness though guys I am a fairly new gamer (Just got in to 40k BEFORE the huge derailment, early 2000s) so I was never in their "golden age" when all seemed fun and fair at GW HQ (Which was ironically about a 5 minute walk from my house in Eastwood).

To be honest I am not sure why some of you really REALLY seem to care that much about what they are doing? It's like they have taken away your family and demand you play their game or else. We don't need to moan about them as it doesn't solve anything, just go play another system for feths sake.

I play Infinity, FoW, Malifaux but still enjoy 40k for what it is. Saying that...I want a new god damn Tau codex.

I don't really understand that logic.

Suppose you loved to play basketball. Suppose the prices of basket balls and related gear suddenly skyrocketed to 400% of their original price. Do you quit and start playing soccer?