Finished with the GW beast

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**girgam**

Goddard wrote:
gr1m_dan wrote:All hail Infinity.

That is all...

In all seriousness though guys I am a fairly new gamer (Just got in to 40k BEFORE the huge derailment, early 2000s) so I was never in their "golden age" when all seemed fun and fair at GW HQ (Which was ironically about a 5 minute walk from my house in Eastwood).

To be honest I am not sure why some of you really REALLY seem to care that much about what they are doing? It's like they have taken away your family and demand you play their game or else. We don't need to moan about them as it doesn't solve anything, just go play another system for feths sake.

I play Infinity, FoW, Malifaux but still enjoy 40k for what it is. Saying that...I want a new god damn Tau codex.

I don't really understand that logic.

Suppose you loved to play basketball. Suppose the prices of basket balls and related gear suddenly skyrocketed to 400% of their original price. Do you quit and start playing soccer?

well the OP actually did say basically that, he did say stop the GW hate and just move on, its kinda near the bottom of his post.

its kind of funny that a post that said he's getting away from the beast and to stop the GW hate has generated so much GW hate and so many arguments back and forth.

I personally still play GW games, i like them still, i may also be clinically insane, but we all have our flaws, hopefully everyone can find a hobby they enjoy.

**Goddard**

Well, people can do whatever they wish with their money, but don't tell me to stop hating on GW just because.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

girgam wrote:I personally still play GW games, i like them still, i may also be clinically insane, but we all have our flaws, hopefully everyone can find a hobby they enjoy.

Amen.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

A lot of GW hate is not actually hate.

I may be critical of GW's management, but spleen is very much absent from my feelings.
No red mist of anger either.

Suspect the same goes for others accussed of excessive emotional outpourings.
So easy to bandy such words around the forum with no real thought if they are actually appropriate or not.

Criticism is not a synonym for anger or hatred.

**girgam**

Goddard wrote:Well, people can do whatever they wish with their money, but don't tell me to stop hating on GW just because.

far as im concerned you can hate whatever you want, for whatever reason you want, or even if you have no reason

i just think its a pity that so much of these discussions have broken down into hate in the last few days/weeks.

Anyway, carry on.....3 2 1 fight or whatever

edit: i may interpret hate a bit to much, i took that more from the OP's post, but as always its hard to tell peoples emotions on the interwebernets

**Goddard**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:A lot of GW hate is not actually hate.

I may be critical of GW's management, but spleen is very much absent from my feelings.
No red mist of anger either.

Suspect the same goes for others accussed of excessive emotional outpourings.
So easy to bandy such words around the forum with no real thought if they are actually appropriate or not.

Criticism is not a synonym for anger or hatred.

Thank you!

**gr1m_dan**

If the price of the football matches I go to went up 400% then yes I would stop going. You would be stupid to carry on going.

However GW is still affordable to me as are loads of other gaming systems which I play. At the moment I am playing less 40k and more FoW and Infinity.

I'm just saying - if you don't like the prices - don't play it. Moaning about it will not change the price for you mate. Voting with your wallet, will. (in due time)

**Bullockist**

I don't hate GW.
I just find their pricing ridiculous.
I remember when i thought (7.50 Australian) was harsh for specialist orks.
If i buy GW minis, i buy em off ebay, and never look at the GW stores. Why am i penalised for using a horde army?
However looking into warmachine i am pleasantly surprised i can get an ARMY for $200 or so and even more pleasantly surprised that in infinity it is even cheaper.
Why am i so excited by these prices? well to get a 2000 point army on ebay (orks) i have spent $300 au, and there is quite a bit of converting to go. As much as i relish the chance for modelling, the chance for a game or two where i don't HAVE to do any of that, and its CHEAPER!.
YES, CHEAPER.
200-250 for warmachine, and maybe $130 for infinity.
and for what i can get one army for 40k off EBAY, i can buy 2 armies for two different game systems with no conversions for the same price.
For me, the newer companies aRE leading the way. They know it's about gaming, not strangling your mother with her purse strings.
BTW if it was my kid starting 40k i'd say " you can use my army!...what, you want marines??...no fething way you are spending a grand on that!....go play football

**Pael**

Bullockist wrote:I don't hate GW.
I just find their pricing ridiculous.
I remember when i thought (7.50 Australian) was harsh for specialist orks.
If i buy GW minis, i buy em off ebay, and never look at the GW stores. Why am i penalised for using a horde army?
However looking into warmachine i am pleasantly surprised i can get an ARMY for $200 or so and even more pleasantly surprised that in infinity it is even cheaper.
Why am i so excited by these prices? well to get a 2000 point army on ebay (orks) i have spent $300 au, and there is quite a bit of converting to go. As much as i relish the chance for modelling, the chance for a game or two where i don't HAVE to do any of that, and its CHEAPER!.
YES, CHEAPER.
200-250 for warmachine, and maybe $130 for infinity.
and for what i can get one army for 40k off EBAY, i can buy 2 armies for two different game systems with no conversions for the same price.
For me, the newer companies aRE leading the way. They know it's about gaming, not strangling your mother with her purse strings.
BTW if it was my kid starting 40k i'd say " you can use my army!...what, you want marines??...no fething way you are spending a grand on that!....go play football

Thank you for this. This is exactly what I was preaching in the OP. For $430 dollars you can get at least 2 full armies of your choice in 2 other game systems. For that amount you could pinch and squeeze, and strech the dollar and settle for an army you are half interested in for a GW game. Let alone trying to keep up with the newest releases at GW.

I used to play all of GW games but now I play 4 other systems and still have some funds left to expand into other armies. I am still paying the same amount I would for GW but getting at least 4 x as much stuff.

I am not complaining about GW prices, I am just comparing them to other options. So all you guys who are tired of us whining about the cost think about what I am saying. In ALL other areas of commerce this happens ALL of the time. The times when people don't comparison shop is when they want brand names because they trust those brands, yet most conscious consumers will look for deals on getting those brands for cheaper.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

I'm just saying - if you don't like the prices - don't play it

This comment I always find pointless.
Even more so on a thread titled, "Finished With the Beast".

Furthermore there are plenty of comments to the effect of "I love the game but no longer willing to buy GW"
People seem savvy enough to make up their own minds as to what to do whilst not buying from GW.

Again, why would any sane person want to spend more on their hobby. Do you as someone who can still afford it really not mind having to pay more?
Surely a 100 SM's for a £100 is better than 50 SM's for a ton, however much cash you have to lollop around with?

And you are also excluding a lot of players from the game who don't like the prices but are reluctant to give up a game they enjoy.
Should they also take you at your word?

**H.B.M.C.**

Then there's the strange notion that not liking prices somehow means I should stop playing. Eh? How does that work.

Playing =/= buying. I play BattleTech, I haven't bought a model for it in almost 3 years. And speaking of BattleTech...

For $800 I got more BattleTech stuff than is sane. I spent less on BTech than I ever have on GW stuff, and yet there are models in my BTech collection that I've not even got close to using yet. And I don't need it all. I could have more than enough with $200, and there's no GW army out there that I could get for that.

reds8n wrote:But comments like " aww. you mad " really don't help or add anything to a discussion. So please avoid posting their like in the future. Ta.

Aww... you mad red?

Sorry, sorry. Couldn't resist.

**Goddard**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
reds8n wrote:But comments like " aww. you mad " really don't help or add anything to a discussion. So please avoid posting their like in the future. Ta.

Aww... you mad red?

Sorry, sorry. Couldn't resist.

You and your shenanigans

**RatBot**

<Captain O'Hanagan>

I swear to God, I'll pistol-whip the next guy who says "shenanigans"!

</Captain O'Hanagan>

**oni**

augustus5 wrote:As serious and as well thought-out as the OP's viewpoint may be, this is a topic that is rehashed constantly.

Yup, and we play their games and will continue to play their games never the less because we can always find an opponent.

**ArbeitsSchu**

Anybody else old enough to remember when GW shops sold ""Other Games"tm and were staffed by beardy long-hairs who put Cannibal Corpse on the shop sound-system? Now THAT was "hobby".

**Alvar**

Kanluwen wrote:
RatBot wrote:
Is it a logical reasoning or really worth celebrating? Who knows. It generates a stereotypical elitism, seemingly, that is no different than the stereotype of a well-known electronics company that has their own brand of shops.

It doesn't make it a unique hobby unto itself. Any FLGS worth its salt will provide the same things that a GW store will, albeit often informally. The only difference there is the GW store will only inform you about GW product. The FLGS will usually help you with any product you're interested in.

You haven't explained what the difference is, even though you said there was a difference, and then said yourself in your next post that it's just a gimmick to prevent you from being informed about other options.

In fact, this is the Games Workshop hobby, according to their "about us" site:

"Someone who is involved in the Games Workshop Hobby collects large numbers of miniatures, paints them, modifies them, builds terrain and war games with them in our imaginary universe"

That's their own words. How is this different from any other wargaming manufacturer out there?

You missed the key part on there.

Games Workshop wrote:The Hobby

Investors and potential investors in Games Workshop need to understand what we mean by the Hobby.

A hobby is something people make time for. It is not a pass-time and therefore not usually analogous to watching TV or playing computer games. In our case, as with most hobbies, it involves commitment, collection, craft or manual skills and imagination. Someone who is involved in the Games Workshop Hobby collects large numbers of miniatures, paints them, modifies them, builds terrain and war games with them in our imaginary universe. This involves huge amounts of time.

Games Workshop Hobbyists play war games with large numbers of metal or plastic miniatures they have carefully chosen and, usually, painstakingly painted, on a table top face to face with their friends. It is a social and convivial activity loved by Hobbyists the world over.

Our job therefore revolves around our ability to recruit new gamers (of all ages) and keep them in the Hobby.

We publish many games systems giving potential Hobbyists a range to choose from and alternate systems for experienced gamers. We categorise these systems as 'core' (Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000) or 'specialist' (Warmaster, Mordheim, Necromunda and similar). New Hobbyists are likely to start with core systems or The Lord of The Rings Strategy Battle Game, which as well as a being a challenging adventure is also an excellent introductory game.

"Someone who is involved in the Privateer Press Hobby collects large numbers of miniatures, paints them, modifies them, builds terrain, and war games with them in our universe."
"Someone who is involved in the Spartan Games Hobby collects large numbers of miniatures, paints them, modifies them, builds terrain, and war games with them in our universe."
"Someone who is involved in the Corvus Belli Hobby collects large numbers of miniatures, paints them, modifies them, builds terrain, and war games with them in our universe."
"Someone who is involved in the wargaming hobby collects large numbers of miniatures, paints them, modifies them, builds terrain, and war games with them."
Again, the only thing in that sentence is the "our universe" bit which can be applied to myriad game companies.
It'd be like if Nintendo said "People in the Nintendo Hobby enjoy our Audio-Visual Interactive Experiences (TM) on our Nintendo Hardware" and opened "Nintendo Centers" where they carry only Nintendo Hardware and Software and started producing their own Nintendo brand Televisions and sound systems to play these games on in an attempt to make "Nintendo" something distinct from "video games", and then claimed that because they're the only providers of Nintendo products, they have no competition.
But I don't want to detract from my main point: You said there is a difference between the HHHobby and the wargaming hobby. What is it?

That's the difference, RatBot.

The entirety is that they attempt to be self-perpetuating. They don't rely on other companies shooting themselves in the foot to get mass exoduses of players who are "tired of the other games", or anything of that nature.

Your point about the FLGS isn't bad, but the FLGS isn't promoting their own product. That's GW's twisted brand of thinking into how they have "The GW Hobby".

The FLGS'(which REALLY is a bad term for this discussion, since GW shops can be FLGSes or any number of oddities such as that. It's why I prefer to say independents whenever possible) goal is to get your money based on whatever your interest is. The GW shop's goal is to get you involved hook, line, and sinker in "The GW Hobby".

I think you can get my point a bit better, but I don't know.

And branding their games as "The GW Hobby" is in any way differant then any other marketing ploy. A few of you read way too much into what companies say. And of course they want you hook, line, and sinker. ANY company wants you to buy thier product and thier product only. It's the nature of running a business.

I work for a cable company. We offer video, phone and internet, why wouldnt my company market the total paskage as an "Experance" or any other catchy term. It would be stupid to offer one product and not mention the rest. And are thier other companies offering the same thing? Of course. Do i even mention them EVER? No. And as far as i'm concern, when i'm with a customer, they don't exist...AT ALL! GW is no differant.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pael wrote:
Bullockist wrote:I don't hate GW.
I just find their pricing ridiculous.
I remember when i thought (7.50 Australian) was harsh for specialist orks.
If i buy GW minis, i buy em off ebay, and never look at the GW stores. Why am i penalised for using a horde army?
However looking into warmachine i am pleasantly surprised i can get an ARMY for $200 or so and even more pleasantly surprised that in infinity it is even cheaper.
Why am i so excited by these prices? well to get a 2000 point army on ebay (orks) i have spent $300 au, and there is quite a bit of converting to go. As much as i relish the chance for modelling, the chance for a game or two where i don't HAVE to do any of that, and its CHEAPER!.
YES, CHEAPER.
200-250 for warmachine, and maybe $130 for infinity.
and for what i can get one army for 40k off EBAY, i can buy 2 armies for two different game systems with no conversions for the same price.
For me, the newer companies aRE leading the way. They know it's about gaming, not strangling your mother with her purse strings.
BTW if it was my kid starting 40k i'd say " you can use my army!...what, you want marines??...no fething way you are spending a grand on that!....go play football

Thank you for this. This is exactly what I was preaching in the OP. For $430 dollars you can get at least 2 full armies of your choice in 2 other game systems. For that amount you could pinch and squeeze, and strech the dollar and settle for an army you are half interested in for a GW game. Let alone trying to keep up with the newest releases at GW.

I used to play all of GW games but now I play 4 other systems and still have some funds left to expand into other armies. I am still paying the same amount I would for GW but getting at least 4 x as much stuff.

I am not complaining about GW prices, I am just comparing them to other options. So all you guys who are tired of us whining about the cost think about what I am saying. In ALL other areas of commerce this happens ALL of the time. The times when people don't comparison shop is when they want brand names because they trust those brands, yet most conscious consumers will look for deals on getting those brands for cheaper.

So you just like playing games? Doesn't matter what game you play then? So when another company you buy figs for raises prices you complain as much then?

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Thank you for the blue wall
for six lines

Go back and read the thread
answer is already in the post

**RutgerMan**

I think GW's prices are indeed too high (22.75€ for a Ork boyz box?!) yet I still keep buying the products in my FLGS, why? I love the hobby, I truly love it, from the sprue to finished ork boy. I have looked at other Wargames, but they all aren't as cool looking as a great part of the GW range IMHO, They have this awesome aura around all they make which I cannot resist. I've actually started collecting Orks for that very reason! (and also a bit because crons got a little boring) My FLGS store has a system which consist that if you bought a number of products 10 times you get 10% of the total of all that money to spend freely into the shop. Last Time this came down to 43€ for me to spend freely, so that's also a reason why I still buy GW products. One more reason is that my FLGS also has a bunch of terrain and gaming boards which I can use, one last why I still buy GW products there, they alow me to play in their building.

I wan't to state one last thing, I'm not here to say "No you guys, GW is good!" and all. Because I still think they are messing around there. But maybe one day... one day... *stares into the far distance*

**Grot 6**

This swill about some sort of "GW Hobby" is propaganda in its truest form. Sales generating doubletalk designed to make you think you are getting into something different then miniature wargaming.

I was going to post a whole bunch of Gobbels Propaganda Principles, but it is part in parcel of any product your trying to sell. At this point in the conversation, you can go look them up and read them for yourself. The point here being, that this talk about "GW HOBBY" is just them spouting off about how great and different they are.

Honestly, your trying to move product. Smokes, drugs, and weapons companies have it down, as well as foodwater, or any other product that wants to sell makes it a point to try to be different from the herd.

It's friggen minis. nothing more, nothing less.

You can buy into the BS if you want to, but don't get mad when people start busting your chops for being a kool-aid swiller.

Price maybe? The GW HOBBY is all about how much you can pay for thier minis?

So then thier hobby is really about how much money you can throw down.

Great hobby.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Am long used to model kit manufacturers saying things like
"Building the Drean" or "Like the Real Thing!"
Typical publicity tags.

Thing is they are on these strange forms of communication called [fingerpostrophies]Adverts[/fingerpostrophies] taken out in modelling and aviation magazines.

It is one thing to want to promote your brand and make claims for its excellence, it is another to claim you are the be all and end all of a pastime.

When the statement is made in your own waffle on the internet or wherever it was stated, it is not publicity but arrogant bluster.

**H.B.M.C.**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It is one thing to want to promote your brand and make claims for its excellence, it is another to claim you are the be all and end all of a pastime.

And it's another thing altogether when you start to believe your own marketing waffle. Just look at the Failcost release to see that, all that blather about the finest miniatures ever made, the most detail in miniatures ever, and the greatest revolution in human history since (to borrow from AvatarForm) breathing oxygen!

Such utter tripe.

**Adam LongWalker**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Then there's the strange notion that not liking prices somehow means I should stop playing. Eh? How does that work.

Playing =/= buying. I play BattleTech, I haven't bought a model for it in almost 3 years. And speaking of BattleTech...

For $800 I got more BattleTech stuff than is sane. I spent less on BTech than I ever have on GW stuff, and yet there are models in my BTech collection that I've not even got close to using yet. And I don't need it all. I could have more than enough with $200, and there's no GW army out there that I could get for that.

Old Skool Battle Tech player. Hardcore probably more so than with GW. 112 wins 3 years running in my region(early 90's). Friends with the people who wrote the Indy Magazine "Battle Technology" in the late 80's. Custom built my own battle pod when I played Mech Warrior 1 thru 4 on the PC. A battle pod is like a flight simulator bty.

And I still have 108 metal models for my regiment. Those were good times when they happened. Good times.

**djphranq**

I don't believe I'll ever be done with GW... they're designs give me a warm and fuzzy feeling... mostly...

But I concur with embracing other games too. There is some really cool stuff out there. Malifaux, Hell Dorado, Dark Age, the Mantic stuff, Warmahordes, Dystopian Wars... tons of great stuff out there.

**Worglock**

djphranq wrote:I don't believe I'll ever be done with GW... they're designs give me a warm and fuzzy feeling... mostly...

And all the guys crying all over every forum about GW won't ever be done with them either. Which is part of the problem. If they didn't have GW to hate, they wouldn't have anything.

**FITZZ**

Worglock wrote:
djphranq wrote:I don't believe I'll ever be done with GW... they're designs give me a warm and fuzzy feeling... mostly...

And all the guys crying all over every forum about GW won't ever be done with them either. Which is part of the problem. If they didn't have GW to hate, they wouldn't have anything.

It must be a truly wonderful feeling to have reached a station in life where you can predict everyone's actions and understand their motives better then they themselves do...

**H.B.M.C.**

I keep trying to will him out of existance, but nothing's working.

**infinite_array**

Worglock wrote:
djphranq wrote:I don't believe I'll ever be done with GW... they're designs give me a warm and fuzzy feeling... mostly...

And all the guys crying all over every forum about GW won't ever be done with them either. Which is part of the problem. If they didn't have GW to hate, they wouldn't have anything.

Is it so wrong to enjoy the Universe so much, that we dislike the company and games that ruin it?

I'm getting rid of my 40k stuff to start up Epic. Not only is it a superior game system, but the models are cheaper, and everything can easily be found easily by second hand dealers.

**AvatarForm**

H.B.M.C. wrote:I keep trying to will him out of existance, but nothing's working.

Maybe if we all join hands in a circle, and simultaneously press the Triangle of Friendship?

**Stella Cadente**

Worglock wrote:No. DnD and WoW are -not- what GW should be doing.

You are a terrible person for even suggesting that.

agreed. GW should not become as popular as DnD or even the pathetic WoW, they should just die as a company and deserve it, then make room on the market for decent companies loved by the fans

**Worglock**

Stella Cadente wrote:
Worglock wrote:No. DnD and WoW are -not- what GW should be doing.

You are a terrible person for even suggesting that.

agreed. GW should not become as popular as DnD or even the pathetic WoW, they should just die as a company and deserve it, then make room on the market for decent companies loved by the fans

I know right? They should totally take the patch concept from WoW and every 3 months have -every- army change radically. Because it works so well for Death Knights.

Or maybe they could put out hundreds of sourcebooks like DnD and then do a hard reboot because they were "too many sourcebooks" before putting out another 800 source books. Because, well, who wouldn't want to have to buy 5 new books every month?

Space Marines should be Half-angel, Dragonkin Warforged Paladins anyway, right?

**Delephont**

H.B.M.C. wrote:I keep trying to will him out of existance, but nothing's working.

I don't see why. He just has a different opinion to you. It's unlikely you will suddenly change your mind about GW because of an anonymous internet poster. Just hit ignore and move on.