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Yeah, Terra is insanely defended. It has an entire Batlefleet assigned to it, the largest in the Imperium, in addition to a PDF fleet.

Terra is surrounded by thousands of defense stations, Luna itself is a Battlestation and docking yard.

Then there is the Fleet of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Then the Saturnian Fleet(the best ship commanders in the Imperium are Saturnians)

Terra has an entire Titan legion defending it, the Custodes, and the Terran PDF.


This is just the Permanant Defenses, there would also be hundreds of Marine Chapters and other Battlefleets that would come to Terra's aid.

Anything can get through a defense. Hell we had insurgents penetrate the wire into our FoB's in Afghanistan a few times. It doesn't have to be the Vong piloting the coral ship just some Imperial "volunteers" doing it with a instruction book to operate the basal. Just cause the books say the solar system is heavily defended and think all approaches are covered doesn't mean someone can think outside the box to penetrate the defense grid. Bet you Wedge Antilles and Wraith Sqaudron can do it

You really don't understand.

every ship that enters the system is boarded multiple times and is scanned both psychically and physically. a psychic scan is going to pick up the Vong signiture, namely because they don't have psykers and as such can't have any defense. any abnormalities will result in a swift end.

just cause some Insurgents can penetrate the wire in a modern conflict doesn't mean you can do this. its not even close in comparison.

If we are just grabbing things out of the SW universe to blow up Terra with, I'll take the Sun Crusher, please.

I don't even need to be in your Segmentum to blow up your local star, and the incoming missile is untouchable until it drops out of hyperspace nearly on top of its target.

Yeah, but this just devolves into SW vs everything 40k. and 40k has Chaos.

Chaos is bigger then any silly Suncrusher.

The Chaos Cult that Ragnar Blackmane found that was operating for awhile went undetected on Earth? Whats the actual number of capital ships defending the system? Fighter aircraft? The number of battlestations? (Are they stationary?) defense platforms? Are you thinking an attack horizontal with the solar system? Why not vertical? Highly doubt the GE would go in with no intell on system defense. If they do it would be at the weakest point. If Thrawn lead the attack would you think he might actually pull it off? Reinforcement takes time to get there. Lets go with whats actually there. Problem though is no one knows the actual placement of fleets, battlestations, defense platforms and other defense points in the solar system. Lets not include ground force lol the idea is getting a nukes in. As for not knowing where to drop it well....be a glaze attempt

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Jihadin wrote:well...first one by trusting in the force and when to apply the 5lbs trigger squeeze to launch a photon torpedo. 2nd one was design flaw. If planning the defense of the 2nd DeathStar I and the rest you all would not leave tunnels with a straight shot into the core undefended or open. As far advance as GE I'm sure they make small enough to get into a tie fighter. Over saturation of targets if a full court press into the solar system. something will get through. Of course that could be a diversion while a team of Yuuzhan Vong in a coral ship plant a dovin basal on earth surface to pull the moon from orbit to collide into earth. Since Tyranids are hard to detect untill its to late and the Vong has the same bio concept I see them being hard to detect and getting away with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That was IoM vs Earth.

The entire debate is based around the IoM versus the GE, the Vong aren't part of this. If the GE get the Vong, then we add the Chaos Gods or the Necrons to the equation and giggle. And no, "something" isn't going to get through, Terra is unbelieveably well-defended.

QFT, if you add other SW factions, then you should be able to add other 40k factions, then we know what would happen.

Jihadin wrote:The Chaos Cult that Ragnar Blackmane found that was operating for awhile went undetected on Earth? Whats the actual number of capital ships defending the system? Fighter aircraft? The number of battlestations? (Are they stationary?) defense platforms? Are you thinking an attack horizontal with the solar system? Why not vertical? Highly doubt the GE would go in with no intell on system defense. If they do it would be at the weakest point. If Thrawn lead the attack would you think he might actually pull it off? Reinforcement takes time to get there. Lets go with whats actually there. Problem though is no one knows the actual placement of fleets, battlestations, defense platforms and other defense points in the solar system. Lets not include ground force lol the idea is getting a nukes in. As for not knowing where to drop it well....be a glaze attempt

The defenses are in all directions, not just a horizontal plane. and yes the orbital platforms can move.


Chaos Cults are slightly different, they can get in simply by one individual giving into dispair and then the chaos gods offer him power. they basically start on their own, some cults may have existed in the underbelly of the Planet City since the Heresy.

Humans trying to sabotage the system could get to Terra, but they wouldn't be able to smuggle equipment in. they would have to start from scratch with what they could find.

And why are Nukes the supposed weapon of choice here? Radiation is hardly the worst thing you can throw at the IoM. You can be sure that there are massive safety measures to defend against radiation.


Attacking Terra is attacking the stronghold of a mighty god. the Emperor does mostly keep daemons from entering realspace, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do anything. he is quite capable of effecting the material realm. Heck, he might allow daemons to board GE ships attacking Terra.

Grey Templar wrote:
Attacking Terra is attacking the stronghold of a mighty god. the Emperor does mostly keep daemons from entering realspace, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do anything. he is quite capable of effecting the material realm. Heck, he might allow daemons to board GE ships attacking Terra.

He can do that? Since when?

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, but this just devolves into SW vs everything 40k. and 40k has Chaos.

Chaos is bigger then any silly Suncrusher.

The Sun-Crusher is still a GE weapon, though, just not Ep- 4-6 era.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
Attacking Terra is attacking the stronghold of a mighty god. the Emperor does mostly keep daemons from entering realspace, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do anything. he is quite capable of effecting the material realm. Heck, he might allow daemons to board GE ships attacking Terra.

He can do that? Since when?

Since he got plugged in.

What the Emperor does sitting up on the Golden Throne is hold the daemons back so they can't enter the physical universe at will. they have to enter through the body of a psyker or a warp rift and even then its a difficult transition.

Now the Emperor could decide to loosen his hold in specific spots, and those spots could just happen to be inside the GE ships attacking Terra. As a result the daemons eat the GE crew, the IoM can then come back later and blast the hulks to clean the daemonic taint.

course..probaly just at that crucial moment...someone trips over the power cord that leads to the golden throne....murphy's law....GE doesn't have geller fields so I can see it happening. guess getting a nuke to earth is out the window......give me a minute to think of another attempt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
propaganda. I try propaganda just to get the IoM population to rebel.

Grey Templar wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
Attacking Terra is attacking the stronghold of a mighty god. the Emperor does mostly keep daemons from entering realspace, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do anything. he is quite capable of effecting the material realm. Heck, he might allow daemons to board GE ships attacking Terra.

He can do that? Since when?

Since he got plugged in.

What the Emperor does sitting up on the Golden Throne is hold the daemons back so they can't enter the physical universe at will. they have to enter through the body of a psyker or a warp rift and even then its a difficult transition.

Now the Emperor could decide to loosen his hold in specific spots, and those spots could just happen to be inside the GE ships attacking Terra. As a result the daemons eat the GE crew, the IoM can then come back later and blast the hulks to clean the daemonic taint.

That's imperial propaganda. The only thing we can say for sure is that the carriongod somehow keeps his failed (thanks to Magnus) webway portal shut. While this is most certainly an impressive feat it is by no means a singular one. There have been documented cases of Eldar Farseers doing the same/ permanently sealing a webway portal.

The problem with the GE vs IoM argument is that we have some ideas about the general powerlevels of GE ships ( http://stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html ) but very little about those of imperial ships.
If we assume that both have a comparable amount of firepower ( which i honestly doubt, after all why develop exterminatus class weaponry when a single frigate is enough to perform a base delta zero/exterminatus equivalent? ) then the imperium has an advantage.

It all comes down to which side has what and what amount is each side is willing to commit to presecute a war on each other. IoM has quite a few fronts going on while GE has rebels to contend with. Is IoM willing to strip capital ships and assets from other fronts to prosecute a war with GE at once or lincoln log their way at GE. All depends on how much intelligence is gathered from opposing forces and how fast each side can react to them.

Why would they be fighting in the first place?

Greed and all the free beer they can drink afterwards

KingDeath wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
Attacking Terra is attacking the stronghold of a mighty god. the Emperor does mostly keep daemons from entering realspace, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do anything. he is quite capable of effecting the material realm. Heck, he might allow daemons to board GE ships attacking Terra.

He can do that? Since when?

Since he got plugged in.

What the Emperor does sitting up on the Golden Throne is hold the daemons back so they can't enter the physical universe at will. they have to enter through the body of a psyker or a warp rift and even then its a difficult transition.

Now the Emperor could decide to loosen his hold in specific spots, and those spots could just happen to be inside the GE ships attacking Terra. As a result the daemons eat the GE crew, the IoM can then come back later and blast the hulks to clean the daemonic taint.

That's imperial propaganda. The only thing we can say for sure is that the carriongod somehow keeps his failed (thanks to Magnus) webway portal shut. While this is most certainly an impressive feat it is by no means a singular one. There have been documented cases of Eldar Farseers doing the same/ permanently sealing a webway portal.

It's in the rulebook fluff, presented to us as the omniscient reader. I'd hardly call that "propaganda".

xxmatt85 wrote:Oh great it's this tread again .

Like we didn't beat them in almst every other scifi thread......


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, but this just devolves into SW vs everything 40k. and 40k has Chaos.

Chaos is bigger then any silly Suncrusher.

This. Even if we count SW vs. 40k. Star Wars don't have anything that can counter Chaos and we all know that magic>>>>>technology.
And + Star Wars primary race are Humans, who say they are not corruptible?

And further to show mu opinion:

Tempted to ask a Mod to sticky these types of threads.
Talk about a glut of them recently. Ho hum.

Surely the Imperium has enough virus bombs to murder the Empire? And what would the Empire do if they were hit by some daemons?

Durza wrote:And what would the Empire do if they were hit by some daemons?

Grey Templar wrote:The Ad mech could design a computer Virus to take them down if it really can to it

Computer virus? Really? Considering that the Ad Mech's idea of maintenance can basically be summed up by "annointing the machine spirit with sacred ungents while chanting the litany of restoration"... surely you jest! Against a droid army the Ad Mech would light sacred insense and then sit in a circle singing Kum By Ya while sliently weeping that the machine spirit has forsaken them.

keezus wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The Ad mech could design a computer Virus to take them down if it really can to it

Computer virus? Really? Considering that the Ad Mech's idea of maintenance can basically be summed up by "annointing the machine spirit with sacred ungents while chanting the litany of restoration"... surely you jest! Against a droid army the Ad Mech would light sacred insense and then sit in a circle singing Kum By Ya while sliently weeping that the machine spirit has forsaken them.

No actually. They would see the use of droids as heresy, and begin a crusade to destroy every last one of them. Any form of advanced AI is considered heretical by the IoM. Think the society in Dune, but only slightly more tolerant.

McNinja wrote:I doubt a squad of ten Jedi would have much trouble defeating hundreds of Guardsmen, or even Space Marines.

My friend, you are off your rocker
No-name mook Jedi are total garbage. Multiple "squads" of Jedi experienced great difficulty against a bunch of Mandalorians. Four Jedi were defeated by an unarmed, outnumbered Jango Fett...

(I do recall there being lightsaber proof armor, which would probably equate to power-sword-proof armor).

That's a big assumption...
Lightsabres are heat-based, burning through stuff. Power weapon fields "disrupt matter". Not quite the same.

Also, the basic soldier weapons of the SW universe are a heck of a lot more powerful than the weapons of the Imperial Guards lasgun.

Are you comparing SW blasters to 40K lasguns. If you are, I fail to see how blasters are so much more powerful then lasguns...BTW, I'm going by the SW movies.

Anytime someone starts to w@nk Jedi, I point to this:











if you watch from 1:10, the Jedi is Ki Adi Mundi (a Jedi council member)...he's only able to a block a few rapid-fire blaster shots before the clone troopers mow him down

I would like to interject that from my readings of Star Wars fluff nearly every type of projectile weapon (barring Verpine shatter weapons which are basically hand-held railguns) are practically looked down upon as primitive because they are just so *not* effective against shields... Yes the Imperium has trillions of men and 1 tank to every 100 men makes billions of tanks, but if the meager Rebel Alliance on some backwater planet with a single generator can shield an entire planet so well that the Empire had no weapons to pierce it even though they could camp outside and blast it for months with the entire fleet, I think that the Empire may be able to hold out if nothing else against the Imperium. Yes the Imperium has laser and plasma technology and I do love it so, but when a lascannons are rather few and far in between except on some vehicles and the occasional heavy weapons squad and plasma weapons have a 16.3% or so chance of vaporizing the user while the Empire fields 65+ massive turbolasers able to individually level a city block (or somewhere around there) on a ship only 1.6 klom long with individualized deflector shielding... And don't forget that AT-ATs had armor "too strong for blasters" which are quite the equivalent of lascannons and ground forces such as that... I'm not sure how lasguns would compare to blasters, they are probably better, but oh well. And superweapon-wise the Empire had plenty of superweapons. The Death Star was a failure in technological design but take a look at the Sun Crusher. Armor that wouldn't get scratched by plowing straight through a Star Destroyer, torpedoes which can cause suns to SUPERNOVA and destroy entire systems, and not to mention it got literally thrown into a sun and pulled back out weeks to months later and was able to be used perfectly right off the bat...

In extended warfare I'd say it'd be pretty dang close. The Empire (in my eyes) has a good edge due to superior tech (yes they have superior tech otherwise the Imperium wouldn't be using ballistics anymore. Deal with it) but the Imperium's sheer size... I shudder to think of the space battles (in a good way)

Go ahead tear it apart

KingDeath wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:
/thread

And yet the tiny Stardestroyer seems to have comparable or even more firepower than the much larger battleship.

The history has shown that super-heavy ships are not as effective as lots of small ones (remember two German Bismarck-class battleships which sunk in the WWII). And in the case of spaceships, it'll be much easier and less costly to construct ships of the proper size - how large and powerful should be the engines carrying Warhammer starships? And why do Imperials decorate their ships as cathedrals - they simply spend resources on that. What do you think about of the amount of stone or metal spent on that grimdark Gothic angel at the top of that ship?
I like both SW and WH40k but I think that SW Star Destroyer is more proper for space battles than WH40k Imperial starships.

Farseer Petriel wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:
/thread

And yet the tiny Stardestroyer seems to have comparable or even more firepower than the much larger battleship.

The history has shown that super-heavy ships are not as effective as lots of small ones (remember two German Bismarck-class battleships which sunk in the WWII). And in the case of spaceships, it'll be much easier and less costly to construct ships of the proper size - how large and powerful should be the engines carrying Warhammer starships? And why do Imperials decorate their ships as cathedrals - they simply spend resources on that. What do you think about of the amount of stone or metal spent on that grimdark Gothic angel at the top of that ship?
I like both SW and WH40k but I think that SW Star Destroyer is more proper for space battles than WH40k Imperial starships.

Considering that many Imperial Ships have been in service for thousands of years, your view appears to be false.

Don't mistake the size and power of Imperial ships for them lacking numbers. A Cobra escort(same size as an ISD) can be constructed in a day at the proper facilties(Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Port Maw, any Forge World with a shipyard)

Cruisers and Battleships are rarer, but they are hardly uncommon. Gothic Class cruisers are present nearly everywhere.

Star Destroyers arn't exactly coming out of the GE's ears either.

Grey Templar wrote:Now the Emperor could decide to loosen his hold in specific spots, and those spots could just happen to be inside the GE ships attacking Terra. As a result the daemons eat the GE crew, the IoM can then come back later and blast the hulks to clean the daemonic taint.

I'll back 40K over SW any day of the week, but your argument relies too much on speculation
why hasn't the Emperor "loosened his hold on specific spots" against the Tyranids, Tau, Orks, etc.

I don't think tactics that have never been seen in the fluff before should be brought up in a vs. thread

Imperium of man would absolutely stomp the Galactic empire. No ifs and no buts. Id like to see a lightsaber stop a bolter round. HA take that, werent expecting exploding bullets now were you?

And im not even a Star wars hater, I like the series. So I dont think im particularly biased.

IoM
50-75 ships assigned to a sector, 200 sectors in the Imperium 65 as an average 13000 up to several squadrons of frigates/destroyers assigned to a fleet
cobra class is a torpedo boat
Grand Crusier 5KM
Chapter fllets are assorted sizes



GE
24 Star Destroyers, up 2,400 ships Sector fleet
Way to many sectors
Peaked over 25K Imperial Class Star Destroyer
Super Star Destroyers were 3.8 KM estimated like 800 were bult of assorted classes


well..tried to make the attempt on the actual size of both navy's. I had to stop since it wasn't really making sense for either side