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Blade - no, youre not stating what the book states. If you'd read a bit more, you would find:

1) Infantry do NOT have 360 degree line of sight. Proof? The book never says they DO, which means they dont

2) Infantry MUST turn to face what they are shooting at, and THEN you trace LOS, furhter proof that Infantry do not have 360 degree LOS

So this leads us inexorably to:

C1) Walkers not only do NOT have 360 degree LOS, they actually have a 45 degree arc of sight (please, not "site") from each weapon

C2) Walkers facing away from the portal are immune
C3) Nemesor cannot help unit behind him, as he does not have LOS to them

Worst rule in the dex. It's like a little kid shutting his eyes real tight and covering his head with a blanket so the bogeyman won't get him at night...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Blade - no, youre not stating what the book states. If you'd read a bit more, you would find:

1) Infantry do NOT have 360 degree line of sight. Proof? The book never says they DO, which means they dont

2) Infantry MUST turn to face what they are shooting at, and THEN you trace LOS, furhter proof that Infantry do not have 360 degree LOS

So this leads us inexorably to:

C1) Walkers not only do NOT have 360 degree LOS, they actually have a 45 degree arc of sight (please, not "site") from each weapon

C2) Walkers facing away from the portal are immune
C3) Nemesor cannot help unit behind him, as he does not have LOS to them

Ok if we go by what you are saying then yes that's all true. I just figured infantry had a 360 LoS because it sounds stupid to say you don't have LoS because you aren't facing them when all he has to do is turn his head. Do they really have to write that in the book or can we just use our brains little?
Also walkers have a 180 LoS if we are going by what you say just not when they are shooting.

It's not what "I'm" saying, its what the rules say.

This game is an abstraction, one of which is that Infantry do not have 360 LOS. So please dont throw insults of "using our brains little" - you're playing an IGOUGO game about space elves and GM xenophobic facist knights. Realism is not exactly high on the list of topics....

Also - where did you get the Walkers have a 180 degree LOS? They have NO LOS, technically, outside of shooting - as that is the only time their LOS is mentioned

I'm done with this bro. I don't care to argue any more. If you want to play to the rules to that level of detail then fine play that way. The game shop I play and and most other game shops I've been to would just laugh and say really. But by wording of the book you are right. It's just dumb in my opinion to say that Nemesor can't give a unit the special ability becuause he's not facing them. When really its just a turn of the head. Just because the book doesn't say they it doesn't mean they don't because it doesn't say they don't either. Like I said before the rule is really there just so people can't suck thing through walls or other impassable terrain. There you go I'm done with fourm. Also from the eyes perspective do you have a 45 angle LoS? Because I don't and I don't think our models would either. Another thing is that you only check LoS when it shoots its shooting. Any other in instance you should go off the head where the guy is operating it from giving him a 180 view like infantry models. They are treated like infantry for other range purposes.

@Maelstrom I think a better example would be throwing a towel over your head when confronted by a ravenous bugblatter beast of traal (who then will simply assume that since you do not have LOS to it, it does not have LOS to you).
@Nos, does this mean Wraithguard/lords are also immune to Portal of Exile since they technically cannot draw LOS on anything? (jk)

blade - fair enough, ragequit if you need to. You appear to not realise that this isnt an actual game, but a forum dedicated to talking about the actual rules of the game.

As for the whole 180 degree LOS thing - no, walkers do not have 180 degree LOS, because you cannot find a rule saying they do The entire game is permission base, and the only LOS permission you have for ANY walker ANYWHERE is in shooting.

Again, you are making up that infantry have a 180 degree LOS. That is a complete and utter fabrication not based anywhere in rules.

Happy - yep, theyre immune to it, but sadly cannot fire as they cannot draw LOS

Thats Ok, I don't use Wraithguard, and my Wraithlords are bullet sponges/CC monsters anyway, so I don't need LOS heh heh.

nosferatu1001 wrote:blade - fair enough, ragequit if you need to. You appear to not realise that this isnt an actual game, but a forum dedicated to talking about the actual rules of the game.

As for the whole 180 degree LOS thing - no, walkers do not have 180 degree LOS, because you cannot find a rule saying they do The entire game is permission base, and the only LOS permission you have for ANY walker ANYWHERE is in shooting.

Again, you are making up that infantry have a 180 degree LOS. That is a complete and utter fabrication not based anywhere in rules.

Happy - yep, theyre immune to it, but sadly cannot fire as they cannot draw LOS

Ok let's go Nosferatu. There is nothing in the book that states that any models have a 180 degree LoS. You can't find it because it's not there. Can you find the rule saying that they don't? You won't because its not there either. Ok on to my earlier point. LoS is only measured from the guns of a walker on it's shooting phase. Now if something makes you check for that out of phase like the Monolith could. Then you would have to check from the models head where the operator of the walker is since the walker is not shooting. You treat the walk as you would an infantry model as stated on page 72 unless shooting its own weapons. Since the rules don't tell us what do other we have to treat it like infantry and measure from where ever the head of the operator is. On a Dredn. this would be the head of it. Now when you measure line of sight you view it from the models eyes. Now you mean to tell me when you are looking at from a models viewpoint you would only be able to see right in front of it or 180 degrees of it's front. The models eyes should be able to see everything in front of it and to it's sides. So it's not written but when you view from the model guess what it sees everything within an X range of a 180 radius of it. You can't tell me that a Monolith gets within 1" or an enemy unit. The Monolith is on the east side of the unit and all the models facing North. You are trying to say that the models can't see the monolith which would be directly right of the unit withing 1" because they are facing forward or North as stated?
If so then you have a very very very messed up way of playing this game. I mean come one man they shouldn't have to write every single thing in the book down because some of it is common sense. From the models eyes would be like looking through your own eyes and unless you only have one or no eyes at all then you see everything that in front of you within a 180 radius. That's all things that aren't hidden of course.

bladedragon03 wrote:Ok let's go Nosferatu. There is nothing in the book that states that any models have a 180 degree LoS. You can't find it because it's not there. Can you find the rule saying that they don't? You won't because its not there either.

Stop. You've already failed. It's a permissive rules set - if there isn't a rule allowing it, it isn't allowed.

edit: also, use the enter key. It makes things far more readable.

No you failed to read on. Becuase the rule is the eyes of the model. When if you are looking then it is 180 degree radius of the front of the model. Just because it's not written doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Look at the wording and common sense tells you on well from the eye of the model would be anything within a 180 degree of the front of the models facing. At least answer the question. In no part of the rule book does it say that the models LoS can't see to the left or right of their front facing. It doesn't say anything about an angle for LoS either. So according to how you read the BRB how do the models see what would be the angle of LoS?

Blade - "let's go"? What are you, 12?

The game is permissive. That means unless the rules say you CAN do something, you CANNOT do it.

This means you CANNOT measure LOS for a dreadnought WITHOUT referencing their weapons, as this is the ONLY allowance they have for measuring LOS.

You also still apparently dont understand the point of this forum, or apparently what the return key does

nosferatu1001 wrote:Blade - "let's go"? What are you, 12?

The game is permissive. That means unless the rules say you CAN do something, you CANNOT do it.

This means you CANNOT measure LOS for a dreadnought WITHOUT referencing their weapons, as this is the ONLY allowance they have for measuring LOS.

You also still apparently dont understand the point of this forum, or apparently what the return key does

No I understand it quite well. I just don't care. Yeah I am 12. so what about it? The only reason that rule isn't there is because this is the first time something has ever called for something to have LoS to it out of its own phase. This is way after the rule book was made. So to follow it up you should go back to a earlier rule. This isn't risk the rules change as new codexs come out. Let's just leave the dred out. Infantry is have a 180 vision of LoS.

bladedragon03 wrote:Infantry is have a 180 vision of LoS.

Please cite the rule.

""Infantry is have a 180 vision of LoS. "

Wrong, they do not.

While it is possible, that 6th ed will come out and say that infantry have 360 degree LOS (or something), in the meantime they can only see what you see if you put your head down at their level behind their head. And as was pointed out (jokingly) since some models don't have "eyes" they will be unaffected by the Portal, but cannot shoot.

Ok so what I made a typo. I'm writing all this from my phone. Yes they do have a LoS of a 180 degrees. The rule is you look as though you are looking through the models eyes. Well the models eye sight would be 180 degrees like ours unless you are blind or only have one eye. Let's say a monolith were to deep strike next to a unit and try to suck them up through the door. Are you all saying no the models can't see to their left or right?

Most people have approximately 180 degrees LOS. Some people actually have approximately 240 degree arc, depending on how good their peripheral vision is. Since LOS is checked by "seeing what your models can see" this means most models will have 180 degree LOS. UNFORTUNATELY this is all based off of real world applications which goes against rule 3 of YMDC (more or less).

blade- again you are posting "rules" which do not exist, against the tenets of the forum

They said they chose LoS because they wanted it to feel like you were in a movie. To make the game feel more real. They didn't put something so obvious in because they figure everyone has common sense to know.

No one is answering my question. I think this is because the answer to my question proves that they would have 180 LoS.

No I'm not adding rules. I'm just stating what should be obvious to anyone. You guys are just being way to specific and detailed about the rules.

Tell me what page it is on that says that an infantry models LoS is prohibited to. Because the way I read it the models eyes can see a lot more then what most of you are saying they can. Like everything that's not hidden that's in front of them and to their sides.

So, what youre trying to say is: there arent actually ANY rules supporting my position, so I'm going to continue to whitter on ignoring the tenets of the forum by throwing out "common sense" and "it doesnt say they cant"

When firing an infantry model, the *only time their LOS is defined* you are told to point them directly at the enemy. Not to the side. Not 90 degrees left, but directly at them.

I have shown the page which defines their LOS; you need to find a rule that actually supports your view, or quit posting contrary to the tenets of this forum

Seems to me that the following quote clears up troops and LOS.

"Line of Sight literally represents your warriors view of the enemy - they must be able to see their foe through, under or over the tangle of terrain and other fighters on the battlefield"

Use this in conjunction with the models true LOS.

IMO it reads that the model does indeed have a 180 degree los. If the model can't see it, it can't shoot.

If a model is behind a unit they can't see it. Just because you, as the general have a total oversight of the board does not mean that your models have that same advantage.

nosferatu1001 wrote:So, what youre trying to say is: there arent actually ANY rules supporting my position, so I'm going to continue to whitter on ignoring the tenets of the forum by throwing out "common sense" and "it doesnt say they cant"

When firing an infantry model, the *only time their LOS is defined* you are told to point them directly at the enemy. Not to the side. Not 90 degrees left, but directly at them.

I have shown the page which defines their LOS; you need to find a rule that actually supports your view, or quit posting contrary to the tenets of this forum

Page 11. Quote "As you move the models in a unit, they can turn to face in any direction, with out affecting the distance they are able to cover. Infantry models can also be turned to face their targets in the shooting phase, [u]SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHICH WAY THEY ARE POINTING AT THE END OF THE MOVEMENT PHASE."

I believe this poves that the models can judge their line of sight from and direction. Which would actually give them a 360 degrees LoS. If you combine this with the fact that the BRB states that walker are treated like infantry except when they are shooting their own weapons in their shooting phase, then the dred. would still be able to get sucked in. Is that proof enough for you all. Thank you have a nice day.

Learn to use bold, instead of CAPS. One is shouting, the other is emphasis

I also love that you entirely ignored the first bit - "Infantry models can also be turned to face their targets in the shooting phase"

Almost like they need to be turned to face in order to shoot, because thats how their LOS is determined.

You have no rules, you are simply wrong on this. live with it.

bladedragon03 wrote:Which would actually give them a 360 degrees LoS.

No. If they had a 360 degree LoS you wouldn't have to turn the models in the direction they're going to shoot.

As pointed out - the one really clear rule, explaining that you DO turn them to face in the shooting phase, was ignored. Instead the poster took one line about not worrying about where they are facing, in context about SHOOTING, and making up that models have a 360 degree LOS

You are the one ignoring the fact that it says don't worry about which way they are pointing at the end of the movement phase. Can you just not admit that you are wrong. I know when I'm wrong but not about this.

Besides it says you can not have to. Doesn't mean that if you didn't turn then they can't shoot.

Also on Pg.11 ( Although dramatically facing off against their foes is traditional.) Not a have to.

bladedragon03 wrote:You are the one ignoring the fact that it says don't worry about which way they are pointing at the end of the movement phase. Can you just not admit that you are wrong. I know when I'm wrong but not about this.

Besides it says you can not have to. Doesn't mean that if you didn't turn then they can't shoot.

It says don't worry about how they're facing at the end of the movement phase because they can turn during the shooting phase. You have to read the entire sentence.
And yes - if they're already pointing at their target they don't have to turn.

It say you can turn them to shoot not have to turn them to shoot. Just like you can reroll some dice but you don't have to reroll them.

So they can be turned in the shooting phase. Well the Monolith does that attack in the shooting phase. So the models that are effected would have to turn and look at the monolith for LoS.

You are wrong on this, for all the reaosns given already that you purposefully choose to ignore.

You have no rules support for your argument. None at all. See the box out, page 16. Guess what - you have to be able to see from their eyes, otherwise you dont have LOS. If your model is not turned towards them you dont have LOS.

End. Of.

Oh, and before you raise the "can" - you are not forced to shoot, and are not forced to have LOS. Of course, youre not shooting if you dont fulfil both of those, but THAT is why they have "can" in there.