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The Swarm Lord in game and in fluff. Vect would kill him in game.

Movac wrote:The Swarm Lord in game and in fluff. Vect would kill him in game.

Are you sure? I just ran it, and with Vect Causing 1.75 unsaved wounds to the Swarmlord, going first, but then getting killed in their first round, assuming the Swarmlord has given himself Preferred enemy. The Main cause of this is, the Swarmlord causes an Average of 4 wounds to Vect, in which he has to reroll all successful invulnerable saves, amounting to making 8 saves. He should fail one of those, and then suffers ID. Perhaps someone else can check the math on this for me.

Avatar 720 wrote:Mephiston can kill some Orks...

Not just some orks, a band of Orks.

That is about 515 orks, all with weapons and armor and guns.

Sasori wrote:

Movac wrote:The Swarm Lord in game and in fluff. Vect would kill him in game.

Are you sure? I just ran it, and with Vect Causing 1.75 unsaved wounds to the Swarmlord, going first, but then getting killed in their first round, assuming the Swarmlord has given himself Preferred enemy. The Main cause of this is, the Swarmlord causes an Average of 4 wounds to Vect, in which he has to reroll all successful invulnerable saves, amounting to making 8 saves. He should fail one of those, and then suffers ID. Perhaps someone else can check the math on this for me.

I didn't mean those two fighting each other, I meant either of them fighting Mephiston.

DeathReaper wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Mephiston can kill some Orks...

Not just some orks, a band of Orks.

That is about 515 orks, all with weapons and armor and guns.

Since when? I'd love to know what orifice you pulled that number from

Guns ARE weapons- bit redundant there, and orks don't really wear anything that can be considered armour, as a whole..

It could as easily be 4 orks with guitars, on the way to a concert

In Game- My SAG Bigmek with PK turned him into a glove pupper, but that's not mathematically likely to re-occur.

A fussilade from Grot blastas can finish him off, let along anything bigger. Any decent sized shooting unit can put him down hard, as can all those groovy DE poisoned weapons I've seen him go down to a lone wych before.

Fluffwise- Too many to list, but any Greater Daemon has a decent chance either way, as they have power weapons, high strength, immunity to instakills and invulnerable saves in game.

Lelith Hesperax could take him, Urien certainly could (as fluffwise he has a blade that kills yo from the slightest scratch, thoug he doesn't have it in game), Vect would drop a burning imperial battleship on him just to see if he could get out from under it, then put him down like a rabid dog with splinterfire from his followers. (

Ghazzy can, and frequently does, own him hard.

He's honestly not that great, despite the fanwank about him (in game). In fluff he's a tad more uber, but also well on his way to daemonhood ;0)

Sasori wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Now find me someone who can go alone trough entire Tyranid brood force and came out alive.

Maugan Ra.

Power Owned

Let's be real here, Mephiston kinda sucks. I used to think he was good when we had a guy at the shop running him as an IC, then we found out he was not an IC.

In IA:8 the Ravenguard assaults a Fuel Station protected by a band of orks, which were about two dozen. Where pulled 515 from is a mystery to me.

Sasori wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.

Well if we do not count in the Primarchs, then I would like to know which heroes do you mean?

Saint Celestine or any other Living Saint probably could. They are monstrously powerful.

Not even close.

Yes.


See, I can do opinion too. Considering how the Living Saints are more or less incarnations of the Emperor's Power, I'd say they could do it. Then again, I'm breaking the rules for the challenge: they're Imperials too.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Sasori wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.

Well if we do not count in the Primarchs, then I would like to know which heroes do you mean?

Saint Celestine or any other Living Saint probably could. They are monstrously powerful.

Not even close.

Yes.


See, I can do opinion too. Considering how the Living Saints are more or less incarnations of the Emperor's Power, I'd say they could do it. Then again, I'm breaking the rules for the challenge: they're Imperials too.

When Saint Celestine starts causing the Extinction of entire civilizations and races, we'll talk.

TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.

I personally think Huron Blacheart has a pretty good chance. Also, what about Logan Grimnar.

rockerbikie wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.

I personally think Huron Blacheart has a pretty good chance. Also, what about Logan Grimnar.

Gameplay wise, the Swarmlord kills Huron, after causing a single Wound. Depending on who Charges with Logan, decides if Logan lasts 1 or 2 rounds of combat. Fluffwise, between Logan and the Swarmlord can be a bit tougher.

Sasori wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Sasori wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.

Well if we do not count in the Primarchs, then I would like to know which heroes do you mean?

Saint Celestine or any other Living Saint probably could. They are monstrously powerful.

Not even close.

Yes.


See, I can do opinion too. Considering how the Living Saints are more or less incarnations of the Emperor's Power, I'd say they could do it. Then again, I'm breaking the rules for the challenge: they're Imperials too.

When Saint Celestine starts causing the Extinction of entire civilizations and races, we'll talk.

I think you'll find that that's the Tyranids as a whole, not the Swarmlord. Otherwise one could argue that a Living Saint is an incarnation of the Emperor in the same way that the Swarmlord is an incarnation of the Hive Mind, which means that Saint Celestine has, de facto, already caused the extinction of entire civilizations and races.

I think you'll find that that's the Tyranids as a whole, not the Swarmlord. Otherwise one could argue that a Living Saint is an incarnation of the Emperor in the same way that the Swarmlord is an incarnation of the Hive Mind, which means that Saint Celestine has, de facto, already caused the extinction of entire civilizations and races.

The Swarmlord is quoted as being "The Greatest Tyranid threat to the Galaxy" It goes on to say that It "Was responsible for the scouring of the Megyre system,the destruction of the Brynarr race and the consumption of Waaaagh! Gorgluk." The Swarmlord is the direct cause of all that, either by it's far superior tactics, or it's insane skill in combat. There hasn't been anything in the fluff so far, that has bested the Swarmlord in combat

Saint Celestine is a nothing more than a cockroach compared to the Deeds and combat prowess of the Swarmlord.

Reading this thread opened my eyes on how mary sue Eldrad is

(I dont know any eldar fluff, so I may be wrong with this whole thing)

If he was so great why didnt he forsee his death and do something to avert it?

A number of mobs will gather together into a warband, which is roughly equivalent to an Imperial Guard company

A Band is = to an Imperial Guard company, which is about 515 guardsmen.

From the Wiki

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Orks

Sasori wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:There are a still few Imperials that could beat the Swarmlord.

I personally think Huron Blacheart has a pretty good chance. Also, what about Logan Grimnar.

Gameplay wise, the Swarmlord kills Huron, after causing a single Wound. Depending on who Charges with Logan, decides if Logan lasts 1 or 2 rounds of combat. Fluffwise, between Logan and the Swarmlord can be a bit tougher.

Fluff wise, I think Huron has it. A Silver Skull Captain could only cause a single gash on Huron's face in Close Combat.

Brother Coa wrote:

Jidmah wrote: all Mephiston ever did was punching a bunch of boyz dead.

Read: "The Hives of Hollonan", he carved his way trough entire Tyranid brood and killed their Tyrant and all his guard. Before that he held the doors of cathedral for 6 hours and tear apart Carnifex with his bare hands ( no power fist, just hands like your and mine ). He was stopped when Trygon hit him from the back and bury hi under the pile of rubble.
Now find me someone who can go alone trough entire Tyranid brood force and came out alive.

Rubbles again? This is getting ridiculous.

I'll bring forth that anybody can beat mephiston if the fight in a rock quarry, just toss a bunch of rubble at him and he'll be stuck there for a few months...

The big problem I (and a lot of people as well) have with Mephiston is that his fluff is one thing (Pretty bad ass marine) and his statline is another (omg wtf!). Because of that, fluffwise he'd lose to a lot of people that he would totally own 'stats wise'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Reading this thread opened my eyes on how mary sue Eldrad is

(I dont know any eldar fluff, so I may be wrong with this whole thing)

If he was so great why didnt he forsee his death and do something to avert it?

From my understanding he knew he would die, but went with the course of action anyway, has choosing a course of action that would let him live ended rather badly for the rest of the Eldars/Universe. Just like Paul Muad'dib in the second Dune Book... or heck, Jesus, who knew he'd end up on that cross and didn't run for Mexico...

This make him a martyr... and doesn't really make him any less of a Mary Sue really.

DeathReaper wrote:A number of mobs will gather together into a warband, which is roughly equivalent to an Imperial Guard company

A Band is + to an Imperial Guard company, which is about 515 guardsmen.

From the Wiki

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Orks

You are reading waaay to much into this, especially as orksaren't that prone to exact orginisation.

Reading Mephy's entry -i'd say it was a basic infantry mob, including a nob.

He kills 17/18 of them- the rest break and run. Pretty normal result vs Mephy on-table.

List of things Fisty has killed with bare hands.

Carnifex
Hive Tyrant and his guards
Ork mob
Deamon prince M'kar

Phy. power wise there is no stronger then him that is not a MC

Prior to retcon Void Dragon

But I figure that c'tan shards probably could still own Mephiston depending on how 'big' a shard it is.

And I'm going to assume that the outsider is now a collection of random shards massing together into a new C'tan. So the outsider as well would utterly destroy Mephiston.

Anyway mephiston isn't that uber without plot armor as there is a tremendous amount of characters that would sweep the floor with him.

sure there may be. but as for pure str and tgh. there is no one outside of a monsterous creature that can match him in pure stats

Cept anyone who kills him with a force weapon.. like mindshackle scarab himself lol

Asdrubael Vect, obviously. Every time he battles, he seems to dodge bullets.
..............
___o
/ \ MAATRIX!!!

No one has mentioned this yet but technically fluff wise, Lucius the Eternal could triumph over Mephiston under the basis that anyone who defeats him, becomes him. Despite Mephiston’s ability to overcome the Black Rage, I doubt he’d be able to resist mutating into Lucius.

DeathReaper wrote:A number of mobs will gather together into a warband, which is roughly equivalent to an Imperial Guard company

A Band is = to an Imperial Guard company, which is about 515 guardsmen.

From the Wiki

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Orks

A band of orks is not the same as a warband of orks. In addition, a warband can contain any number of orks, as even said in that article. So an entire warband could still be less than 40, as seen in IA:8 with Buzzgob's Dread mob.

Mephiston's fluff also said he killed a total of 18 orks(five+ a dozen + the leader) before they ran off, hardly a feat.

candy.man wrote:No one has mentioned this yet but technically fluff wise, Lucius the Eternal could triumph over Mephiston under the basis that anyone who defeats him, becomes him. Despite Mephiston’s ability to overcome the Black Rage, I doubt he’d be able to resist mutating into Lucius.

A strong argument. There are two things though that nobody has factored in:

The first is that Mephiston might be possessed by a greater daemon. It's hard to say how this would affect Lucius' prospects at possessing him, unless Lucius could kick the daemon out. This has a similar effect on the comparison of Mephiston and Eldrad's realative psychic power. Eldrad is an immortal, ancient psycher, Mephiston is mortal. Except that Mephiston might actualy also be an immortal, ancient psycher - or at least possessed by one.

The second is that Mephiston is a Blood Angel. Anyone messing with him has to answer to his Necron home boys.

Not seeing how Elrad could win the fluff, Mepheston is pound for pound on par with Elrad mentally. Damn near impossible to kill as well.

No imperial on imperial really leaves out some of the best guys in the game but oh well.

Ghaz can probably take him by shear will and power alone. (Dude is a badass)

Not sure about Abaddon, maybe a bloodthirster?

Any Greater Daemon could easily wipe the floor with him. So could Skulltaker as well probably. Ghrazskul would wipe him out by sheer Orkiness (better than Nuclear weapons, Orkiness)

Vect

Swarmlord or the Doom of Malantai.

Tuska da Daemon Killa

Abbaddon

Kharn the Betrayer under the basis that Mephiston powers won't work (fluff wise).

Cannibal wrote:
The second is that Mephiston is a Blood Angel. Anyone messing with him has to answer to his Necron home boys.

So much win