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CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So...does that mean that if you miss, you could theoretically hit yourself from behind? It'll take a while, but it'll get there. Unless it travels only in straight lines. In that case, it'll cause a dent on some ship's windshield.

The second one. Assuming the beam doesn't diffract, it'll keep moving in a straight line until it hits something, which means that from the perspective of a human it will actually appear to curve UP and shoot out of the atmosphere at some point. It won't follow the curvature of the planet, and what we see as 'straight' lines aren't actually 'straight' if they're long enough, because human eyes are adapted to planetary conditions where the horizon curves down.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So...does that mean that if you miss, you could theoretically hit yourself from behind? It'll take a while, but it'll get there. Unless it travels only in straight lines. In that case, it'll cause a dent on some ship's windshield.

The second one. Assuming the beam doesn't diffract, it'll keep moving in a straight line until it hits something, which means that from the perspective of a human it will actually appear to curve UP and shoot out of the atmosphere at some point. It won't follow the curvature of the planet, and what we see as 'straight' lines aren't actually 'straight' if they're long enough, because human eyes are adapted to planetary conditions where the horizon curves down.

Ah of course. So no suicide by long range sniping then? Pity. That would have been hilarious.

It also means that if long-las weapons CAN be used at multiple-mile ranges, Imperial snipers have to carefully compensate for 'beam lift' instead of bullet drop, wherein a carelessly aimed long-las shot will 'rise' as it fails to follow the curvature of the planet, and shoot by over the targets head.

As a corollary, this would mean that a long-las sniper and an autorifle sniper cannot use each other's weapon without significant cross-training; they will try to compensate in the wrong direction for the opposite problem, and end up drastically missing the target!

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So...does that mean that if you miss, you could theoretically hit yourself from behind? It'll take a while, but it'll get there. Unless it travels only in straight lines. In that case, it'll cause a dent on some ship's windshield.

The second one. Assuming the beam doesn't diffract, it'll keep moving in a straight line until it hits something, which means that from the perspective of a human it will actually appear to curve UP and shoot out of the atmosphere at some point. It won't follow the curvature of the planet, and what we see as 'straight' lines aren't actually 'straight' if they're long enough, because human eyes are adapted to planetary conditions where the horizon curves down.

Ah of course. So no suicide by long range sniping then? Pity. That would have been hilarious.

Unless by some pure fluke of the placement of stars that they curve the beam back at you, but it'd disapate in the atmosphere.... CURSES

King Pariah wrote: What elephants? This is designed to disintegrate incoming missiles, shells, etc. no "weak" gun is going to be able to do that.

The Impeorium need something to stop ENDLESS tides of enemy SOLDERS and MONSTERS.
What could this machine "That is designed to disintegrate incoming missiles, shells, etc" do against and Ork WARGHHH!!!! or Tyranid invasion?

Fine, with the NTW-20, but who doesn't want a sniper grenade launcher (the XM-109) or a team of them? And besides, what is the range of the long las? If I recall correctly (anyone feel free to correct me) but the NTW 20 has a range of roughly 1.5 miles and as I already said the XM-109 has a range of around 2.3 miles (I know it's above 2 miles and less than 2.5 so I'm going to say 2.3). If you can post the ranges of the Long Las then I'll submit if they happen to be greater than both.

Well range of Longlas is never mentioned in fluff ( as far as I know ), but I do know its big on table.
It's a beam of concentrated light, light travels 300.000 km/s. Longlas ceranly won't kill target in space, but it will kill it on a very large distance. Furthermore, it won't miss it's target even on 2 km because the light cannot be distorted like normal projectiles.


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King Pariah wrote:.45 caliber is a big gakking round

Tell that to the Orks...

Brother Coa wrote:

King Pariah wrote: What elephants? This is designed to disintegrate incoming missiles, shells, etc. no "weak" gun is going to be able to do that.

The Impeorium need something to stop ENDLESS tides of enemy SOLDERS and MONSTERS.
What could this machine "That is designed to disintegrate incoming missiles, shells, etc" do against and Ork WARGHHH!!!! or Tyranid invasion?

Fine, with the NTW-20, but who doesn't want a sniper grenade launcher (the XM-109) or a team of them? And besides, what is the range of the long las? If I recall correctly (anyone feel free to correct me) but the NTW 20 has a range of roughly 1.5 miles and as I already said the XM-109 has a range of around 2.3 miles (I know it's above 2 miles and less than 2.5 so I'm going to say 2.3). If you can post the ranges of the Long Las then I'll submit if they happen to be greater than both.

Well range of Longlas is never mentioned in fluff ( as far as I know ), but I do know its big on table.
It's a beam of concentrated light, light travels 300.000 km/s. Longlas ceranly won't kill target in space, but it will kill it on a very large distance. Furthermore, it won't miss it's target even on 2 km because the light cannot be distorted like normal projectiles.

1) It clearly isn't an endless tide.
2) Modifications can be made for other projectiles. Mortar rounds leap to mind.
3) Did you really need to capitalise soldiers?

nathan2195 wrote:
What about rendering(ex.assult cannon) one or more of the MILLION bullets is going to hit a weak point sooner or later and who would fire an anti-light infantry weapon at carnifexes.

-enemies in the Imperium mostly come in masses. So you need your weapons in masses to. It's pointless to hit a weak point of one enemy solder when 10 more are there to replace it and you don't have ammo.
-Guardsman in was use Lasguns against tanks. Go figure...

I see that this weapon's main problem would be ammo. If it spends 1.000.000 bullets per minute, imagine the reloading, or the demand to the Munitorium that is already big.
Hence why Guard is using Las weapons the most - no problem with ammo. Hence the Lasscannons to.

But this weapon would be good for Marines, and maybe Tallarn and Catachan ( ambushes and blitz tactics ). But regular Gaird who use billion tones of ordinance per second? Not a chance in hell.


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purplefood wrote:
3) Did you really need to capitalise soldiers?

The user capitalizes misses. That means good against Eldar/Tau, useless against Orks/Nids/Necrons and Chaos Legions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:
1) It clearly isn't an endless tide.

Really? Tell that to overrun worlds across the galaxy...

Brother Coa wrote:

nathan2195 wrote:
What about rendering(ex.assult cannon) one or more of the MILLION bullets is going to hit a weak point sooner or later and who would fire an anti-light infantry weapon at carnifexes.

-enemies in the Imperium mostly come in masses. So you need your weapons in masses to. It's pointless to hit a weak point of one enemy solder when 10 more are there to replace it and you don't have ammo.
-Guardsman in was use Lasguns against tanks. Go figure...

I see that this weapon's main problem would be ammo. If it spends 1.000.000 bullets per minute, imagine the reloading, or the demand to the Munitorium that is already big.
Hence why Guard is using Las weapons the most - no problem with ammo. Hence the Lasscannons to.

But this weapon would be good for Marines, and maybe Tallarn and Catachan ( ambushes and blitz tactics ). But regular Gaird who use billion tones of ordinance per second? Not a chance in hell.


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purplefood wrote:
3) Did you really need to capitalise soldiers?

The user capitalizes misses. That means good against Eldar/Tau, useless against Orks/Nids/Necrons and Chaos Legions.

Why is it useless against orks and nids? Necrons and CSM are mostly heavy infantry.
Also billions of tons of ammo every second is a grotesque exaggeration.

purplefood wrote:
Also billions of tons of ammo every second is a grotesque exaggeration.

And how much ammo is used during the WW II in one day?
Imagine a planetary invasion then or a War stretching on several worlds..

It is useless because it's firing small caliber bullets, strong for unarmed Humans but next to nothing for Stampeding Ork horde.
If they could fire 1.000.000 exploding Bolter shells in minute that would be something them...

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Also billions of tons of ammo every second is a grotesque exaggeration.

And how much ammo is used during the WW II in one day?
Imagine a planetary invasion then or a War stretching on several worlds..

It is useless because it's firing small caliber bullets, strong for unarmed Humans but next to nothing for Stampeding Ork horde.
If they could fire 1.000.000 exploding Bolter shells in minute that would be something them...

I'm still amused how you assume that we are talking about having this weapon actually fielded in 40k. Of course not! What kind of idiot would do that? I was simply pointing out that Ad Mech would probably find great interest in this weapon, reverse engineer it, THEN IMPROVE IT TO PERHAPS FIRE SUCH MUNITIONS AS BOLTER ROUNDS OR THE LIKE.

This has been said several times and not only just by me. Stop just reading what you want to read and read the entirety of our posts.

I read it and I believe I said the following: they would dump the weapon because it would spend a LOT of ammunition.

Disturbing and replacing ammo is a big problem in 40k, even in best of wartimes.

I think I also said this, but you must misread it... why do you think Guard use Las weapons the most when they have Autoguns and Autocannons?

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Also billions of tons of ammo every second is a grotesque exaggeration.

And how much ammo is used during the WW II in one day?
Imagine a planetary invasion then or a War stretching on several worlds..

It is useless because it's firing small caliber bullets, strong for unarmed Humans but next to nothing for Stampeding Ork horde.
If they could fire 1.000.000 exploding Bolter shells in minute that would be something them...

Believe it or not but most people were a touch too bsy during WW2 to count bullets.
Every second is still an exaggeration.
.45 isn't a small calibre and also what King Pariah said.

Brother Coa wrote:I read it and I believe I said the following: they would dump the weapon because it would spend a LOT of ammunition.

Disturbing and replacing ammo is a big problem in 40k, even in best of wartimes.

I am... so amused.

Instead of firing, say, 3,000 rounds in a minute to mow down a bunch of angry orks, with this weapon (ehanced to 40k specs) you could fire 3,000 rounds in a fraction of a second and have the orks disappear.


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I gotta run, have a meeting to get too. But I'll be back maybe in a few hours. Till them toodles, and don't hurt yourselves!

King Pariah wrote:
I am... so amused.

Instead of firing, say, 3,000 rounds in a minute to mow down a bunch of angry orks, with this weapon (ehanced to 40k specs) you could fire 3,000 rounds in a fraction of a second and have the orks disappear.

And what about the Orks behind them? And behind them? and behind them?...
Weapon would spend it's ammo long before Orks run out of Orks to overrun you. You wouldn't even get to reload it.

But this weapon has it's good side, it would be good against army's who use elites ( like Tau battlesuit or Eldar Warp Spiders ). I can see it in service of Astartes, Guard will always choose manpower over such weapon.

Brother Coa wrote:

King Pariah wrote:
I am... so amused.

Instead of firing, say, 3,000 rounds in a minute to mow down a bunch of angry orks, with this weapon (ehanced to 40k specs) you could fire 3,000 rounds in a fraction of a second and have the orks disappear.

And what about the Orks behind them? And behind them? and behind them?...
Weapon would spend it's ammo long before Orks run out of Orks to overrun you. You wouldn't even get to reload it.

But this weapon has it's good side, it would be good against army's who use elites ( like Tau battlesuit or Eldar Warp Spiders ). I can see it in service of Astartes, Guard will always choose manpower over such weapon.

I don't get what you mean...
If you use 500 rounds to kill 50 orks then this gun will simply do it faster.
You use the same number of rounds but faster...

purplefood wrote:
I don't get what you mean...
If you use 500 rounds to kill 50 orks then this gun will simply do it faster.
You use the same number of rounds but faster...

It's not that, in comparison to this gun Heavy Bolter turret and Multilaser probably fire much slower.
But they kill a lot more enemy solders because they are accurate, if you build a gun that burst ammo that fast you get degraded accuracy.
And it will eventually run out of ammo because enemies comes in more grater numbers then 50. Adn some of them have great armor to that you can punch only with anti-armor ammunition.
And I don't need 500 rounds for 50 Orks, I only need 50 if Space Marine and around 150 - 200 if I am a Guardsman.

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
I don't get what you mean...
If you use 500 rounds to kill 50 orks then this gun will simply do it faster.
You use the same number of rounds but faster...

It's not that, in comparison to this gun Heavy Bolter turret and Multilaser probably fire much slower.
But they kill a lot more enemy solders because they are accurate, if you build a gun that burst ammo that fast you get degraded accuracy.
And it will eventually run out of ammo because enemies comes in more grater numbers then 50. Adn some of them have great armor to that you can punch only with anti-armor ammunition.
And I don't need 500 rounds for 50 Orks, I only need 50 if Space Marine and around 150 - 200 if I am a Guardsman.

The number was merely a random number used for argument.
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ZFjGbOyd2ek

The metalstorm can already currently fire anti-armour rounds. It is also very accurate.

It's how the punisher's turret should work. Ad Mech would worship and adapt one, which would likely be used by the IG more than the marines.

Can't say there would be anything to learn...except how to shape your ground vehicles in ways that make sense, and how to make aerodynamic aircraft.

King Pariah wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

King Pariah wrote:I don't know, I think that Metal Storm's million rounds per minute weapon system would be worth looking into as well as some of the massive sniper rifles/sniper prototypes like say South Africa's NTW-20 or the XM-109. And they could definitely do with low profile tanks.

Metal Storm

Hell's Bells, what is that thing? A gun turret?

Metal Storm, capable of a million rounds per minute. Now tell me that the Imperium and Ad Mech wouldn't look into that!

It would be overcosted and only AP5 so most Imperial players wouldn't field it...

CT GAMER wrote:It would be overcosted and only AP5 so most Imperial players wouldn't field it...

Bravo.

Ah, I'm back, meeting was surprisingly short, gotta say, thanks purplefood for finding that vid and pointing out it's anti armor capabilities both in it's HE capacity (which slipped my mind ) and the supersonic spear effect (which I also forgot ), and I think that video shows also displays the accuracy of the weapon and it's current variants which is due to the delayed recoil effect it has as you'll notice in the example with the handgun the upper receiver (I suppose since it has no bolt) is in the process of sliding backwards while multiple rounds are fired only to begin recoil once the rounds are spent/once several rounds have exited the barrel and the receiver has reached it's sliding limit.

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
I don't get what you mean...
If you use 500 rounds to kill 50 orks then this gun will simply do it faster.
You use the same number of rounds but faster...

It's not that, in comparison to this gun Heavy Bolter turret and Multilaser probably fire much slower.
But they kill a lot more enemy solders because they are accurate, if you build a gun that burst ammo that fast you get degraded accuracy.
And it will eventually run out of ammo because enemies comes in more grater numbers then 50. Adn some of them have great armor to that you can punch only with anti-armor ammunition.
And I don't need 500 rounds for 50 Orks, I only need 50 if Space Marine and around 150 - 200 if I am a Guardsman.

You can set the system up however you want. if you watch the video, it shows that the Metal Storm can fire 40mm grenades at 250k rounds/m. which is a hell of a lot faster than any bolter, with an explosive round larger than a heavy bolter. you can fire a row of grenades into the charging orks, wait for them to explode, then shoot the next row, and so on. Reloading is as easy as opening the back and shoving more rounds in.

Also, there is no accuracy degradation because each round it in its own barrel. Degraded accuracy comes from the barrel moving around due to weapon recoil. If there are 30 barrel attached to each other, then that is attached to a platform, the recoil will be far less.

The Metal Storm system would be insanely useful against any horde army, especially if it fired 40mm grenades.

What about the XM-25 Grenade Launcher? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytPa8ihfrPU&feature=related

25mm is slightly smaller than 1in, and larger than a Bolter round. Sure, it holds less ammo, but has the same effect (actually, I doubt bolter shells have an airburst function).

As the years go on, current military hardware is becoming more and more powerful. We have laser weapons that can take out planes, sonic weapons that disorient foes, and two weapons (the XM-25 and Metal Storm) that are bigger and in many ways better than IoM tech.

Fluff-wise, GW needs to update their fluff in the same way Shadowrun did when the internet was invented. It'll be only a few years before people will look at WH40k and say "we have better tech than that today, and this is supposed to be 40,000 years in the future?" Ok, maybe longer than few years, but you see what I mean.

McNinja wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
I don't get what you mean...
If you use 500 rounds to kill 50 orks then this gun will simply do it faster.
You use the same number of rounds but faster...

It's not that, in comparison to this gun Heavy Bolter turret and Multilaser probably fire much slower.
But they kill a lot more enemy solders because they are accurate, if you build a gun that burst ammo that fast you get degraded accuracy.
And it will eventually run out of ammo because enemies comes in more grater numbers then 50. Adn some of them have great armor to that you can punch only with anti-armor ammunition.
And I don't need 500 rounds for 50 Orks, I only need 50 if Space Marine and around 150 - 200 if I am a Guardsman.

You can set the system up however you want. if you watch the video, it shows that the Metal Storm can fire 40mm grenades at 250k rounds/m. which is a hell of a lot faster than any bolter, with an explosive round larger than a heavy bolter. you can fire a row of grenades into the charging orks, wait for them to explode, then shoot the next row, and so on. Reloading is as easy as opening the back and shoving more rounds in.

Also, there is no accuracy degradation because each round it in its own barrel. Degraded accuracy comes from the barrel moving around due to weapon recoil. If there are 30 barrel attached to each other, then that is attached to a platform, the recoil will be far less.

The Metal Storm system would be insanely useful against any horde army, especially if it fired 40mm grenades.

What about the XM-25 Grenade Launcher? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytPa8ihfrPU&feature=related

25mm is slightly smaller than 1in, and larger than a Bolter round. Sure, it holds less ammo, but has the same effect (actually, I doubt bolter shells have an airburst function).

As the years go on, current military hardware is becoming more and more powerful. We have laser weapons that can take out planes, sonic weapons that disorient foes, and two weapons (the XM-25 and Metal Storm) that are bigger and in many ways better than IoM tech.

Fluff-wise, GW needs to update their fluff in the same way Shadowrun did when the internet was invented. It'll be only a few years before people will look at WH40k and say "we have better tech than that today, and this is supposed to be 40,000 years in the future?" Ok, maybe longer than few years, but you see what I mean.

NIcely put

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

McNinja wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
I don't get what you mean...
If you use 500 rounds to kill 50 orks then this gun will simply do it faster.
You use the same number of rounds but faster...

It's not that, in comparison to this gun Heavy Bolter turret and Multilaser probably fire much slower.
But they kill a lot more enemy solders because they are accurate, if you build a gun that burst ammo that fast you get degraded accuracy.
And it will eventually run out of ammo because enemies comes in more grater numbers then 50. Adn some of them have great armor to that you can punch only with anti-armor ammunition.
And I don't need 500 rounds for 50 Orks, I only need 50 if Space Marine and around 150 - 200 if I am a Guardsman.

You can set the system up however you want. if you watch the video, it shows that the Metal Storm can fire 40mm grenades at 250k rounds/m. which is a hell of a lot faster than any bolter, with an explosive round larger than a heavy bolter. you can fire a row of grenades into the charging orks, wait for them to explode, then shoot the next row, and so on. Reloading is as easy as opening the back and shoving more rounds in.

Also, there is no accuracy degradation because each round it in its own barrel. Degraded accuracy comes from the barrel moving around due to weapon recoil. If there are 30 barrel attached to each other, then that is attached to a platform, the recoil will be far less.

The Metal Storm system would be insanely useful against any horde army, especially if it fired 40mm grenades.

What about the XM-25 Grenade Launcher? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytPa8ihfrPU&feature=related

25mm is slightly smaller than 1in, and larger than a Bolter round. Sure, it holds less ammo, but has the same effect (actually, I doubt bolter shells have an airburst function).

As the years go on, current military hardware is becoming more and more powerful. We have laser weapons that can take out planes, sonic weapons that disorient foes, and two weapons (the XM-25 and Metal Storm) that are bigger and in many ways better than IoM tech.

Fluff-wise, GW needs to update their fluff in the same way Shadowrun did when the internet was invented. It'll be only a few years before people will look at WH40k and say "we have better tech than that today, and this is supposed to be 40,000 years in the future?" Ok, maybe longer than few years, but you see what I mean.

NIcely put

^ Seconded

One weapon I forgot about: the GAU-8/A (I think that's the name of it) on the A-10 Thunderbolt, also known as "the Flying Gun."

It fires 30mm rounds at 6k rounds/min, and is used for annihilating tanks. It has over 4 tons of recoil, with actually cuts the speed of the plane it is attached to in half.

I think that the IoM would be very interesting in that.

McNinja wrote:One weapon I forgot about: the GAU-8/A (I think that's the name of it) on the A-10 Thunderbolt, also known as "the Flying Gun."

It fires 30mm rounds at 6k rounds/min, and is used for annihilating tanks. It has over 4 tons of recoil, with actually cuts the speed of the plane it is attached to in half.

I think that the IoM would be very interesting in that.

True that, those pack a hell of a punch, but I suppose one has to wonder about the punisher gatling, the Vulcan Mega Bolter being possible equivalents I suppose... Though those 30mm rounds kill tanks like it was nothing, so then again, perhaps Ad Mech would be interested in it.

Convert the metalstorm to fire as a multilaser. Hook it up to a solar panel. There, now its str 6 ap 6 assualt 1,000,000

Well we can see how ignorant the Imperium is by reading Brother Coa´s posts. HURR IMPERIUM HURR
Nothing ill meant Coa, its just these are real weapons while the Imperial weps are made up by nerds. I mean really, a pistol that fires a bolt as powerfull as the sun...

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

McNinja wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
Fluff-wise, GW needs to update their fluff in the same way Shadowrun did when the internet was invented. It'll be only a few years before people will look at WH40k and say "we have better tech than that today, and this is supposed to be 40,000 years in the future?" Ok, maybe longer than few years, but you see what I mean.

NIcely put

^ Seconded

But the whole dealio with 40k is that this is true, that the inventions up until the Age of Strife were or are possibly greater than anything created after Unification hence the importance and active search for STCs etc. So in a way GW have got their asses covered by saying that if there are better things now then in 40k, it's because it was lost and hasn't been discovered again.

From The Titan Legions (by Rick Priestley, excerpted from WD 178)

The planet soon became a battleground where rival warlords fought over the ruins of a once great civilisation. All of Earth's ancient knowledge was lost and its cities destroyed

When the Cult Mechanicus restored order to Mars its leaders looked to Earth and beyond, hoping to find remnants of human knowledge on other worlds. The Tech- Priests were appalled at the destruction on Earth and judged there was nothing worth saving.

Bit of a cop - out admittedly