Who would win.

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**metalgear1313**

LOL of course! This thread is awesome mainly because noone will ever agree just who is better cuz each side has its Shiz to deal with that could cause defeat so for us to sit here and imagine is akin to comparing things in a vacuum. as far as the best possible situation for both sides we'd still be left scratching our heads and cursing as we want our side to win,( I know i want Mine to win!

) I mearly pointed out the best of the side i know and support the most. Trust me i know the shiz that the Imperium carries with it and i won't be the last to tell ya that it's a very good chance they'll lose, but i also see the disadvantages that da Boyz face and can't help but see that as a major deciding factor as well. Unless someone can point me to something that shows the orks in such numbers could go longer then a few dayz before they get der bloodlust up and start killin' da other boyz cuz dey bored and wat not.

admiral9 wrote:
metalgear1313 wrote:
Honestly, The Imperium would most likely win the day. What with the power of the Mechanicus, Astartes, Imperial Navy and Guard etc., The orks would be hard pressed to out fire the IoM,. of course many people overlook the fact that it is Total war. To look at the conflict from a ground-war perspective only is unfeasable. and to think that the battle in space is mearly that, you'd have to be lying to yourself to believe.

There Is Only War

That is what we've been told and that is what we will forever hold dear to us.

I don't have much information or knowledge of the Ork species itself to refer to, so i won't state my point on how i believe they would act. But one key thing that is obvious to everyone is the orks inability toact as a cohesive whole for much longer then a battle will last. With this theory stated, we can agree that a planet-wide conflict Will Not have every single Ork,(Nor every single Humie), fighting at a single time. What is to state that the Boyz won't get restless and begin fighting amongst themselves? what's to keep us from imagining a Warboss, much like Ghazzy, from rising from the shadows while Ghazz is away and taking control?

Now that I've shared my short snippet for the Orks, I'll begin with the IoM.

Ahh the Emperor's domain and all it's men who rush to defend it. How nicely the rein of humanity has withered only to show us that insane odds are achievable by those we could not comprehend acomplishing such goals, and vice-versa. To look at the numbers of warriors who rush to defend their homes is stunning but not incalculable. The number of Astartes chapters is not known to us for with each passing day, several more pass into the void or are lost to unknown circumstances. at most, we've been told that they number approxiamately 1000 chapters total. and that each chapter has around average 1000 Astartes in total at most. to think that these paltry numbers wins the day is preposterous however. They are known for being genetically-engineered super-soldiers and excelling in combat and for being incredibly efficient tacticians and commanders. The idea of war comes to an astartes much like the act of breathing comes to us. They were bred, trained, and in certain circumstances, have been known to perfect the art of war-making to near-perfection. Though the Astartes are but few in number, what they bring to the conflict has incredible leverage in a conflict.

Next, the Hammer of the Emperor. The Imperial Guard. Possibly the most numerous of warriors the Imperium is capable of fielding, the Imperial Guard are known for their numbers and their machines and methods by which they make war. As a prior poster has been able to inform us,( Thanks BTW Ignatius for that numbers crunch ) The Imperial Guard could number from the trillions to quadrillions. Not to mention the fact that with each new regiment being deployed to the conflict comes the fancy,( and well-used) hardware the Guard are capable of fielding. From the small and fragile Sentinel, to the dangerous Leman Russ, to the all-powerful Baneblade, The Guard's stoxk of vehicles ensures that if any one thing were to arise, they got a solution to that. From these machines we also observe how each regiment has a certain skill set to wish it is an accomplished practitioner. From the Catachan's fame for jungle warfare, to the Steel Legions of Armageddon and their prowess in mechanized warfare, we can observe the ability of the Guard its capability to adapt to situations. Along with the great force of men the Guard can deploy, comes the incredible leadership that leads these men to victory. Soldiers such as Commissar Yarrick and Lord Castellan Ursarker Creed, are those who spring to mind when asked of incredible heroes who have proven themselves time and again to possess great military minds and prowess in combat. and to think that men have done such incredible acts without the aid of genetic enhancements or centuries of rigorous training, causes tears to come to my eyes.

The Adeptus Mechanicus. truly a mysterious force to be reckoned with and one which holds an extremely powerful weapon in which to slay the Emperor's foes, The Legio Titanicus. many think that the titans are the Mechanicum's only source in which to fight the onslaught of xenos and heretics that come knocking on the Emperor's doorstep. The Skitarii and numerous other factions are formed around arcane technology that enhance a single human or machine to insane proportions and lethality in which they are extremely dangerous for those they might face. And of course the fact that the Legio Titanicus houses the most feared machine in which the mechanicus makes war also adds in to the tactical capabilities the Imperium has to draw on. As for going into detail about the titan's themselves, the numerous classes are known and the effects of such weapons is also something we all can envision so i wont bother explaining them.

The Sister's of Battle. not actually a military organization much like the Adeptus Astartes or the Imperial Guard, The Sister's of Battle are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy. As such is their position, I believe they hold the single most powerful tool in which they combat their foes, Faith. Yes, i said it, faith. Faith is something that has driven people in years of old to both incredible and terrible acts that have astounded many people. The fact that the sister's go into battle believeing that something more powerful guides each and every one of them to victory, leads them to believe they cannot be defeated. Such thoughts are common when we analyze past wars and conflicts in which men and women have fought incredible actions merely because they believed they would survive or that they were in fact guided by some powerful hand. Such Righteous Fury is incredible to behold and impossible to deter.

Now some of you might be wondering why i fail to mention the Imperial Navy or other more recognizable forces such as the Inquisition, Deathwatch, or even the Grey Knights. For those, i do have views and such as to their combat effectiveness but I'm not so well versed with the tactics or strategems of the Imperial Navy, nor do i believe the Inquisition has much to offer. As far as the Deathwatch and the Grey Knight's, they are much the same as their regular brother's who serve in the Adeptus Astartes, with the exception that each brings with it a particular advantage to this conflict. The Deathwatch obviously bring their elite training in the ways of the slaying of xenos filth, just as much as the Grey Knight's bring their psychic mastery and prowess in hand-to-hand combat to the engagement. As far as the other organizations in which the Imperium brings to the war. I shall speak no further. partly because I don't have as much knowledge into these groups and would be speaking about them with mere assumptions rather then educated deductions, MOSTLY because I might have put Dakka to sleep by now and my hands and fingers are seizing up as well.

If there is anyone out there who might wish to complete this summary or might even want to bring a in-depth review of da Boyz, feel free to do so, though i had 2 hours to kill to type this so don't feel like you have to equal me in length

Exalted Pariah Wrote:
Though, with all of humanity united maybe the Emperor would fight Gork and Mork in the background to stop this from happening....
Then humanity wins as Pedro Kantor Falcon Punches the Arch Arsonist so hard into Gazghull that it stuns him long enough for Brother Jarod of the Black Templar(a ven dread who HATES orkz) to throw a barely concious Yarrick powerklaw first into his face.

@ Exalted Pariah, awesome quote by the way consider it exalted!

This will be exalted.

And to finish on the mechanicum, you also have to add the ordinatti those are machines capable of destroying a titan in one shot. The knights who have more numbers then the titans but are smaller but again more agile. And i also will mention the custodians they number aproximatly 1000 to 2000 from what i understand and they are the strongest fighters in the galaxy it took a whole chapter of corrupted marines too take out 1. And that was a suprise attack. Oh and we have every single commisar there we can deploy around 100000000 commisars so the moral will be kept in place.

Much appreciated admiral9, but i had the time and just felt like screamin my Imperium fanboyness on this one

and Thanks for filling in the gaps where i left off and what i didn't know

**admiral9**

No problem we imperials got to stick together against the green tide. If we dont those damn non Tau xenos will crush us as long as we stand the non Tau will never beat us

.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

metalgear1313 wrote:LOL of course! This thread is awesome mainly because noone will ever agree just who is better cuz each side has its Shiz to deal with that could cause defeat so for us to sit here and imagine is akin to comparing things in a vacuum. as far as the best possible situation for both sides we'd still be left scratching our heads and cursing as we want our side to win,( I know i want Mine to win! ) I mearly pointed out the best of the side i know and support the most. Trust me i know the shiz that the Imperium carries with it and i won't be the last to tell ya that it's a very good chance they'll lose, but i also see the disadvantages that da Boyz face and can't help but see that as a major deciding factor as well. Unless someone can point me to something that shows the orks in such numbers could go longer then a few dayz before they get der bloodlust up and start killin' da other boyz cuz dey bored and wat not.

I gotta say, this is a great thread simply for throwing ideas around in, and learnin' the new fluff.

Anyway, as to Ork organisation, generally the 'skins are at their organisational worst when not doing anything; say, just sitting around on a planet with no other identifiable enemies in sight.
Under such circumstances, they fight amongst themselves, which results in weeding out the weaker individuals at the expense of overall population.
However, this thread leads me to assume we're talking about a Waaagh! here. Now, that, in terms of organisation and coherence, is a whole new situation.

When a Waaagh! is called for/begins to be led, the orks band together almost frenziedly in preparation to kill to death something different for a change. That's not to say infighting ceases, but it drops significantly because of the presence of a mutual enemy, as it were.
In this case, as is the case for Armageddon now, the combined might of all the Imperium's military arms would be like the biggest beacon ever; even Armageddon, which is considered a byword for a good fight to the 'skins according to the Ork Codex, would be peanuts compared to it. As a result, what would ensue is what could be described as a mixture of feeding frenzy and holy migration. The orks would go nuts trying to get to it, as long as there were strong leaders for them to follow, which is a virtual given in Ork society.
Now, I don't necessarily believe this would be all one Waaagh!, as ork Waaaghs! have been show to split and rejoin fluidly in the course of their travels. It would probably seem more like a series of enormous hive fleets, except instead of Tyranids it's Greenskins.
The best hope the Imperium has, therefore, is not to try and fight the orks on their terms, i.e. in any conventional manner. In attrition, the orks win. In seige warfare, the orks win.
The Imperium would be best served by trying to eliminate the ork leaders, no easy task as any leader of such large Waaaghs! would make Ghazghull look like a puppydog, and make use of the time the horde wastes finding a new leader to regroup and rearm (something, incidentally, that's nowhere near as easy as some people are making it out to be for the Imperium) with the hopes of a chance to counterattack appearing.
This isn't the surest of strategies, as Ork power struggles tend to vary in how long they take to resolve, but it would at least buy time, and that's what the Imperium lacks in this scenario; time to recover.

**riverhawks32**

The orks would win on the surface...but what is to stop the Inquisition going exterminatus and ending it all?

**admiral9**

The orks would go nuts trying to get to it, as long as there were strong leaders for them to follow, which is a virtual given in Ork society.

And the assasine of every temple would go into utter happines they would use 10 vindicares to kill ghazzy and another 100 to kill the rest of the leaders then we have the rest with psyke out we can even eliminate some of the waagh warp powers.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

admiral9 wrote:
The orks would go nuts trying to get to it, as long as there were strong leaders for them to follow, which is a virtual given in Ork society.

And the assasine of every temple would go into utter happines they would use 10 vindicares to kill ghazzy and another 100 to kill the rest of the leaders then we have the rest with psyke out we can even eliminate some of the waagh warp powers.

Because it's that easy to do that, and assassins are that common.
Try not to fanboy so hard.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

riverhawks32 wrote:The orks would win on the surface...but what is to stop the Inquisition going exterminatus and ending it all?

The ork fleet, where the same factors of numbers and aggression come into play. In addition, given the size of the forces we're talking about here, we're probably looking at a war that covers quite a few sectors, so exterminatus is probably an impractical solution.

**Hazard30**

We also have another problem....

If the Grey Knights are involved than they have to mindwipe/kill all the people who saw them.

Not to mention even if the Imperium beats the orks(big if) they ether have to fire-bomb and entire sector(or more) or have the whole thing happen again when all those spores mature.

**admiral9**

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
admiral9 wrote:
The orks would go nuts trying to get to it, as long as there were strong leaders for them to follow, which is a virtual given in Ork society.

And the assasine of every temple would go into utter happines they would use 10 vindicares to kill ghazzy and another 100 to kill the rest of the leaders then we have the rest with psyke out we can even eliminate some of the waagh warp powers.

Because it's that easy to do that, and assassins are that common.
Try not to fanboy so hard.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

riverhawks32 wrote:The orks would win on the surface...but what is to stop the Inquisition going exterminatus and ending it all?

The ork fleet, where the same factors of numbers and aggression come into play. In addition, given the size of the forces we're talking about here, we're probably looking at a war that covers quite a few sectors, so exterminatus is probably an impractical solution.

Yeah but if we count all the assasins from all the temples up i do think we would get a number in the 1000. We got assasins that can morph into orks. We got crazy assasins that if they die still use bombs strapped to their chest. We got sniper who can kill the strongest leaders in a shot. We got guys who can negate the warp itself with their powers. So there still is a decent chance we kill the strongest leaders and make them fight amongst them selves because of the lack of leadership.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

admiral9 wrote:

Yeah but if we count all the assasins from all the temples up i do think we would get a number in the 1000. We got assasins that can morph into orks. We got crazy assasins that if they die still use bombs strapped to their chest. We got sniper who can kill the strongest leaders in a shot. We got guys who can negate the warp itself with their powers. So there still is a decent chance we kill the strongest leaders and make them fight amongst them selves because of the lack of leadership.

Again, assuming that those ork leaders can be easily killed. We already know that there have been orks capable of killing the Emperor, which is one hell of a feat, and if a Waaagh! of this size is called, it's more than likely there are several such individuals leading it.
Assuming that the assassins can get through the ork horde to the leaders, assuming they aren't killed by said leader's bodyguards (who again would be far larger and more durable than nobz have a right to be) and assuming they are able to attack the Warlord at the end of all this, there's still not a guarantee they have a reasonable chance of success, even with their numbers (which almost certainly will have been thinned by the horde).
The most powerful thing an assassin of the Ordo Assassinorum has ever been able to assassinate with confirmation is Konrad Curze, and as the primarch is strongly hinted to have allowed this to happen to himself, I'm still doubtful that they have the ability to kill that level of Ork Warlord.

**blood reaper**

So what about the gazilion Orks left angry at their leaders death bristling with new leaders in front of the Imperium.

Or did that slip your mind?

**admiral9**

They would most likely be arguing who would be the new leader not being angry that their leader died. Orks always want to be on top and would be glad to kill the other leaders to become it. The killing of the leader would leave open a power vacuum and the orks will fight amongst themselves. The second in command´s would take command of their tribes. And fight against each other after the fight we just burn the planet and the spores dissapear trough the flames.

**blood reaper**

There is still 'humies to krump.

The green tide would turn Tsunami and drown the Imperium.

You can't win this argument as the Ork's can't be beaten.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

admiral9 wrote:They would most likely be arguing who would be the new leader not being angry that their leader died. Orks always want to be on top and would be glad to kill the other leaders to become it. The killing of the leader would leave open a power vacuum and the orks will fight amongst themselves. The second in command´s would take command of their tribes. And fight against each other after the fight we just burn the planet and the spores dissapear trough the flames.

Okay, seriously, read the Ork codex sometime.
The orks wouldn't immediately stop trying to kill the humans, they would become disorganised and anarchic in doing so, arguably still a major threat considering the majority of the Imperium's armed forces rely on dogma and tactics handed down through the ages to fight, and due to this lack of flexibility the sudden anarchic nature of the attacks may throw them.
There would still be thousands of warbands out there spoiling for a fight and unaware of the deaths of their leaders, even if they cared this deep into enemy territory.
They don't just say "ah, wait a moment lads, we've got to figure out who's in charge. Be a good sport, humans, and wait til we're done, won't you?"

**blood reaper**

admiral9 wrote:They would most likely be arguing who would be the new leader not being angry that their leader died. Orks always want to be on top and would be glad to kill the other leaders to become it. The killing of the leader would leave open a power vacuum and the orks will fight amongst themselves. The second in command´s would take command of their tribes. And fight against each other after the fight we just burn the planet and the spores dissapear trough the flames.

*Knows nothing of Orks*

**admiral9**

Okay i give you that one. But i just cant imagine that the humans will go down without a fight. There are just so much weapons the imperium can bring to bear. I just cant imagine them just losing.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

admiral9 wrote:Okay i give you that one. But i just cant imagine that the humans will go down without a fight. There are just so much weapons the imperium can bring to bear. I just cant imagine them just losing.

Nobody said they would just lose. That'd be dafter than an unexplained bag of hedgehogs.
I'd personally say that it'd be one hell of a war; the 40K equivalent of WWII, even, given the scale of the conflict between the two.
In fact, whoever wins, there's going to be a whole lot of Milky Way to clean up.

**admiral9**

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
admiral9 wrote:Okay i give you that one. But i just cant imagine that the humans will go down without a fight. There are just so much weapons the imperium can bring to bear. I just cant imagine them just losing.

Nobody said they would just lose. That'd be dafter than an unexplained bag of hedgehogs.
I'd personally say that it'd be one hell of a war; the 40K equivalent of WWII, even, given the scale of the conflict between the two.
In fact, whoever wins, there's going to be a whole lot of Milky Way to clean up.

True that bro. Well if the orks or imperium are defeated. Around 40% of the enemies 40K had will be gone. So Tau will be able to expand where the imperium was. Eldar will be able to settle cause they dont need to fight against every single humie. Chaos will set their plan in motion to conquer the rest of the universe. Necrons would also have their dynasties expand. And tyranids would absorb everyone. The universe would be an empty place without the 2.

**King Pariah**

admiral9 wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
admiral9 wrote:Okay i give you that one. But i just cant imagine that the humans will go down without a fight. There are just so much weapons the imperium can bring to bear. I just cant imagine them just losing.

Nobody said they would just lose. That'd be dafter than an unexplained bag of hedgehogs.
I'd personally say that it'd be one hell of a war; the 40K equivalent of WWII, even, given the scale of the conflict between the two.
In fact, whoever wins, there's going to be a whole lot of Milky Way to clean up.

True that bro. Well if the orks or imperium are defeated. Around 40% of the enemies 40K had will be gone. So Tau will be able to expand where the imperium was. Eldar will be able to settle cause they dont need to fight against every single humie. Chaos will set their plan in motion to conquer the rest of the galaxy. Necrons would also have their dynasties expand. And tyranids would absorb everyone. The galaxy would be an empty place without the 2.

Fix'd dat fo ya

**CuddlySquig**

BA HAHAHA! Yer mind iz in a good place, humie, I likes da sound 'uv dis fing! Ow about ya go to da humies an' I goes to da boyz and we get em all tog'ever an we bring em to a big ol planet and 'ave da ultimate fightin right den and dere!

**Begel Dverl**

CuddlySquig wrote: BA HAHAHA! Yer mind iz in a good place, humie, I likes da sound 'uv dis fing! Ow about ya go to da humies an' I goes to da boyz and we get em all tog'ever an we bring em to a big ol planet and 'ave da ultimate fightin right den and dere!

Best. Apocalypse. Idea. Ever.

**sirlynchmob**

admiral9 wrote:Okay i give you that one. But i just cant imagine that the humans will go down without a fight. There are just so much weapons the imperium can bring to bear. I just cant imagine them just losing.

Numbers beat weapons. the brits had superior firepower as well, but they still lost to a bunch of spear throwing zulus. Once the orks reach the imperium lines its over for the imperium. It would be one heck of a fight though.

**Anfauglir**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Numbers beat weapons. the brits had superior firepower as well, but they still lost to a bunch of spear throwing zulus. Once the orks reach the imperium lines its over for the imperium. It would be one heck of a fight though.

^ Exactly. That's the only possible outcome in this hypothetical situation (every Imperial vs. every Ork in one big head-to-head).

Which is why I said it myself all the way back on page one!

**Psienesis**

There's a lot of... fluff-sploitation in this thread about what Orks can and cannot do.

**BlaxicanX**

England vs. The Zulus isn't an accurate representation of this situation. Especially considering that they lost anyway.

I don't really understand how Armageddon is hows Ork domination here. Armageddon shows us that the largest Waagh in recorded fluff is unable to take a single star system that is defended by a tiny fraction of the Imperium's total power. At the best, it's a stalemate that made Gazzy so bored that he left.

As for the moaaar numbers thing, how does that matter at all? The Orks ALWAYS have more numbers, in every single fight they are ever in, they always outnumber the enemy by several magnitudes. That doesn't stop them from getting the gak kicked out of them in every battle that doesn't take place inside their own codex, though.

Honestly, "they've got more numbers" is really not a good argument, especially on the ground. Massive AoE abilities >sheer numbers.

**sirlynchmob**

BlaxicanX wrote:England vs. The Zulus isn't an accurate representation of this situation. Especially considering that they lost anyway.

I don't really understand how Armageddon is hows Ork domination here. Armageddon shows us that the largest Waagh in recorded fluff is unable to take a single star system that is defended by a tiny fraction of the Imperium's total power. At the best, it's a stalemate that made Gazzy so bored that he left.

As for the moaaar numbers thing, how does that matter at all? The Orks ALWAYS have more numbers, in every single fight they are ever in, they always outnumber the enemy by several magnitudes. That doesn't stop them from getting the gak kicked out of them in every battle that doesn't take place inside their own codex, though.

Honestly, "they've got more numbers" is really not a good argument, especially on the ground. Massive AoE abilities >sheer numbers.

ok how about those 300 spartans? They had superior fighting skills, and got to hand pick the spot of the battle to give them maximum advantage. They still lost to numbers. Its not about who wins the war in the end, it would be who wins this huge battle.

Orks have some impressive AOE abilities of their own, all the shokk attack guns would ensure everyone had a good time

the humans just start vanishing in a puff of smoke, or a mek pops into the middle of the humans. The humans go to shoot at the mek in shock and shoot a bunch of their own guys to boot

**Anfauglir**

BlaxicanX wrote:
As for the moaaar numbers thing, how does that matter at all? The Orks ALWAYS have more numbers, in every single fight they are ever in, they always outnumber the enemy by several magnitudes. That doesn't stop them from getting the gak kicked out of them in every battle that doesn't take place inside their own codex, though.

Honestly, "they've got more numbers" is really not a good argument, especially on the ground. Massive AoE abilities >sheer numbers.

Umm, it matters a whole lot, actually. It's been said multiple times already, but, I really am starting to think that some of you (including the TC, is seems) don't really realise what it would mean having every single Ork in the galaxy deployed in one, massive force. This alone almost scores an automatic win for the greenskins in almost any semi-likely hypothetical situation. In this one, where the IoM is denied their Navy assets and is confined to a single planetoid = a massive tactical handicap, and I mean massive. The same limitations to the Orks, however, = bonus. Two lumps of mass throwing down together, on a pitched arena with nowhere to run, is the ideal way for them to maximise on their numerical and close combat advantages. The IoM's tactical flexibility and combined arms operations is the only real way for them to stop an Ork Waaagh! You also seem to gloss over the fact that the Orks have guns, ordnance, armoured vehicles, super-heavies and all manner of things that can counter and/or answer to the Imperium's weaponry. No, it's not as effective or as accurate, but it's just as dangerous and destructive . . . and once that gap is closed, it's over for the squishy, puny 'oomies.

A final note; morale. Morale is very important on the battlefield, and can often dertermine the outcome by itself, and well, from a morale standpoint, the Orks have already won before the first shell is fired. Putting it graphically, this is what each side thinks when they see the other force:

Orks:

IoM:

**Ascalam**

As with tyranids, there will be more orks than the defenders have ammo. The guns will eventually overheat or jam.

Reloading takes time. Not much, but it does take time.
Anyone who's ever played a FPS where reloading was necessary against baddies who like to get in close knows how that ends.

The orks have such a numerical superiority that they could bury the humans under a wall of their own dead and still have enough to blanket the planet from end to end.

Yes the IOM has Titans. So do the orks (cooler ones with added Gorkiness!)

Yes the IOM has Admech technowizardry. The orks have Big Meks.

The IOM has Assassins. True nuff. You think they haven't tried to assassinate Ghaz before? They aren't much tougher than regular humans , if better trained, and are just as liable to be swamped, even if they would take a good few humans with them. When a small group of SM can clear an entire Assassin temple and bump it's high master off, waaghsworth or orks certainly can.

Frankly, the IOM would be fethed if all the orks in the galaxy united. There is nothing the IOM has that cold stop them, Emperor included.

**BlaxicanX**

sirlynchmob wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:England vs. The Zulus isn't an accurate representation of this situation. Especially considering that they lost anyway.

I don't really understand how Armageddon is hows Ork domination here. Armageddon shows us that the largest Waagh in recorded fluff is unable to take a single star system that is defended by a tiny fraction of the Imperium's total power. At the best, it's a stalemate that made Gazzy so bored that he left.

As for the moaaar numbers thing, how does that matter at all? The Orks ALWAYS have more numbers, in every single fight they are ever in, they always outnumber the enemy by several magnitudes. That doesn't stop them from getting the gak kicked out of them in every battle that doesn't take place inside their own codex, though.

Honestly, "they've got more numbers" is really not a good argument, especially on the ground. Massive AoE abilities >sheer numbers.

ok how about those 300 spartans? They had superior fighting skills, and got to hand pick the spot of the battle to give them maximum advantage. They still lost to numbers. Its not about who wins the war in the end, it would be who wins this huge battle.

Orks have some impressive AOE abilities of their own, all the shokk attack guns would ensure everyone had a good time the humans just start vanishing in a puff of smoke, or a mek pops into the middle of the humans. The humans go to shoot at the mek in shock and shoot a bunch of their own guys to boot

The spartans were actually kicking the Persians asses until they were betrayed by one of their own. In addition, that doesn't apply to this situation either. For all the skill the spartans had, each one could only kill one Persian at a time. If the spartans had the ability to kill a million persian soldiers with a single blast, like the Imperium can, they would have won.

Umm, it matters a whole lot, actually. It's been said multiple times already, but, I really am starting to think that some of you (including the TC, is seems) don't really realise what it would mean having every single Ork in the galaxy deployed in one, massive force. This alone almost scores an automatic win for the greenskins in almost any semi-likely hypothetical situation. In this one, where the IoM is denied their Navy assets and is confined to a single planetoid = a massive tactical handicap, and I mean massive. The same limitations to the Orks, however, = bonus. Two lumps of mass throwing down together, on a pitched arena with nowhere to run, is the ideal way for them to maximise on their numerical and close combat advantages. The IoM's tactical flexibility and combined arms operations is the only real way for them to stop an Ork Waaagh! You also seem to gloss over the fact that the Orks have guns, ordnance, armoured vehicles, super-heavies and all manner of things that can counter and/or answer to the Imperium's weaponry. No, it's not as effective or as accurate, but it's just as dangerous and destructive . . . and once that gap is closed, it's over for the squishy, puny 'oomies.

You've made a lot of assertions here but there's no substantiation behind them. I really don't think the orks win by virtue of having more numbers, just because you say you do. I think numbers becomes academic at a certain point, once you reach a certain threshold of damage you can inflict in one moment. The Imperial Guard, using just the weapons available to them, could literally cover the entire planet in explosions and wipe out all life. It doesn't particularly matter wither there's a thousand orks or a gazillion.

**Ascalam**

You realise 300 wasn't a historically accurate documentary, right? Firstly there were 900 Helots fighting alongside them, and secondly the persian army had scouts. If they hadn't have been told about the pass around the defenses they would have found them themselves in time.

Anything the IOM can throw, the orks can throw back, with less accuracy, but from more sources.

Humans can destroy a million orks with a single blast. (can they? Exterminatus is usually by cyclonic torpedos, which is a multiweapon event)

So can Orks.

Orks have levelled Titan legions and Hive cities just fine

**BlaxicanX**

The orks can't do it like the Imperium can, which is the point. The Imperium literally has the ability to cover the entire planet in one giant explosion, which would kill everything on the planet.