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Hello Yellowbeard. I'm glad you're picking up another Badab Army. Fire Hawks were one of my favorites too. I hope you paint their old chapter badge!

After reading through your P&M blog and staring at the pictures you posted from IA 9, I almost feel like they're more orange then red. His hands for example appear more of a brown which, when I painted my Tiger Claws, is what I based them in. Have you thought about starting with a foundation brown and going the orange route instead of the reds?

@IceAngel: Hey, thanks for checking out my blog! Yeah, the more I read about these guys, the more I like them; cursed and damned. I have mixed feelings about the old chapter badge, at least for the shoulder pad. (I actually remember when these guys first came out, in 1988, and wondering about the choice of a mshroom cloud as a chapter badge at the height of the Cold War.) However, I just ordered a couple of WHFB banners that I think, with a very little green stuff, will feature both the old and the new chapter badges on it. I think it will look pretty cool.

Well,as you can see, I'm struggling with color schemes, though I think I'm getting closer. The PA marines definitely have an orange-ish cast to them, but the problem is, I'm not a very big fan of orange. Don't get me wrong; I think orange works fine in many cases. Your Tiger Claws are excellent! I've even seen orange Fire Hawks that look pretty good. But, I'm not sure that I want an entirely orange army....

Also, there's some discrepancy in IA9. The PA marines are definitely ornage, but the terminators are more reddish brick. Also, the text in IA9 actually says their colors are "blood red" and "flame yellow"....

I have been playing with brown! I've learned more about color theory in the past month than I knew there was to learn. On one of the test marines, I started with Doombull Brown. I still need to develop my techniques, but I can see the difference. When I get around to painting more yellow, I'm sure it will have an impact.

Thanks for the suggestions! I hope you stick around.

@eldartau: Thanks! Hopefully, the photos below are an improvement.

@Gits: Is there anything you don't know? You improve my painting, you improve my blogging, and now you improve my phtotography! I had no idea about using a different background; I assumed white was the best choice. But as I told Ice, I've learned a lot about color in the last month.... Thanks!

So, taking Gits' suggestion, I re-photographed some of the minis with a different background. I think it made a difference, but let me know what you think.

1. Vallejo Light Rust base (airbrush), Carroburg Crimson wash



2. Doombull Brown base, Korne Red, Badab Black wash



3. Vallejo Burnt Cadmium base (airbrush), Vallejo Red highlight (airbrush), Vallejo Smoke wash



4. P3 Sanguine Base (airbrush), P3 Sanguine Highlight (airbrush), Druuchi Violet wash


Very purple...

but check out it out against a different background:

Color is so cool! (That's actually blue paper it's against.)

5. Playing around with mixing paint: Warplock Bronze + Korne Red

Pure Warplock on the left, mix on the right. (As I said before, inspired by Meph's description of his Death Company.)

And against a different background:


Let me know what you think.

Yes... it made a BIG difference... as the last two pictures illustrate nicely.

Agreed.. when I say on the orange side.. I don't mean orange Marines.. I'm saying I like the red leaning to the yellow side as opposed to the blue side..

I'd like to see these in person. I have to admit I like the last pictures red color. You then could go with a rust red for highlights and would look great.

I've ordered some of the vallejo primer in black and white.. When it gets here, I'd like to see what we can do in addition.

Maybe I'll stop over this week to get a peek.

SL

I think your totally on the right track. SL and Gits being able to see them in person will help out too.

Thanks, Gentlemen, I appreciate your feedback.

@Gits: Are you still leaning toward the Burnt Cadmium colors (#3)? Or does a different scheme appeal more now that you can see them?

@SL: Last marine, as in the Bronze/Red mix? Do you like this more than the Rust/Crimson (#1) marine? Earlier, you thought #1 was best... and that last one is still kind of difficult to see....

@WM: Which do you like best now? Still #1?

yes no 1 is my fav. but if you are leaning toward more red I like the last pic in the series, I reserve the right to change my mind upon seeing them in person.

SL

Solar_lion wrote:yes no ! is my fav.
SL

Translation: Yes, Number 1 is my favorite. For those that were as confused as I was.

I still like the color on 1 as well. I want to hold final judgement for a fig with the rest of the colors on it though. Sometimes it completely changes the base color by contrasting. Not literally, buy you know.

Interesting paintjobs. I'll be sure to watch this thread.

Well, it's hard to say. The issues with the figures looking different vs. different backgrounds is a problem with your white balance. Which version looks truest to what you can see with your own eye? The version against the brown, or the version against the aqua?

In general (and taking the original IA artwork that you posted into consideration) I think you're too far to the red side of the spectrum.

Take a marine with no shoulder pads.
- Paint him a nice warm medium brown.
- Wash with delvan mud or equivalent.
- Airbrush with lighter, golden brown from top. Repeat with lighter mix if necessary.
- re-apply delvan mud or perhaps sepia with a fine brush into the recesses of the areas that have been covered with the lighter spray.
- paint shoulder pads, boots and left hand yellow, yellow over brown will require several coats or a white undercoat.
- pull yellow flames up onto the shin armor & add yellow striping to helmet

You might want to do the helmet separately from the rest of the fig as it'll probably be easier to do the yellow if the helmet can be manipulated separately.


Then come talk to me...

@killykavekommando: Thanks for checking out the blog and for posting a comment. I have to say, this is all very experimental at the moment, and I don't really know what I'm doing. So, I hope it continues to be interesting!

@SL: Thanks.

@WM: Thanks for the translation. I actually speak a little solar_lion, but sometimes it's confusing. That's a good point about adding other colors. I'll try to finish a few next week and see what I get.

@Gits: Thanks. The ones against the brown are truer; that's why most of them are against that background. I only posted the ones agains the aqua to show how much difference background can make (in regard to the P3 figure) and because in the last one the greenish tinge helped set off the dark red a little better.

In general, I think you're right about the red; most of the figures are still very red. The Burnt Cadmium is actually fairly brown, which may be why you liked the first picture of it I posted.

Gitsplitta wrote:Take a marine with no shoulder pads.
- Paint him a nice warm medium brown.
- Wash with delvan mud or equivalent.
- Airbrush with lighter, golden brown from top. Repeat with lighter mix if necessary.
- re-apply delvan mud or perhaps sepia with a fine brush into the recesses of the areas that have been covered with the lighter spray.
- paint shoulder pads, boots and left hand yellow, yellow over brown will require several coats or a white undercoat.
- pull yellow flames up onto the shin armor & add yellow striping to helmet

I'll give this a try, though it sounds like it will come out more yellow.... I played around with this basic idea last night but using glazes. Just practicing really (and it came out pretty messy, so I won't bother you with pics).

I like the red on the termie, but the more I play around with red - adn fail to find what I want - the more I think yellow might be better. Would there be anything wrong with painting the FH in their original colors?

Certainly not on our team... several of us have chosen to paint our marines in the original color scheme. I just thought you liked the new one better.

I dont hate the original scheme (I do hate the original emblem, looks like a black tree). I think if you made some Vets, sternguard or vanguard, in the original colors it would be a nice addition, but I personally like the more grimdark colors of the FW scheme.

That said, they are your models, do what you like!

Hey there,Yellowbeard. I like the look of paint scheme 1 the best so far, it looks most like the art you provided earlier. If you're still trying to match the look of the rust/orange guys, I agree that starting with brown or orange is the way to go, and shading with brown. You seem to be steering too far into the bright red range with some of your later attempts.

Keep experimenting. You earn a lot and though it seems fustrating. once you get " that" color everything else moves along.

No one has to like the color more than you.

SL

@Gits: Thanks. I guess I knew that. Don't get me wrong; I like the red. Do I like it better than the yellow? I'm not sure. I like them both.

@WM: Thanks. That was kind of my original intent; mostly red with some yellow vets to really stand out. By the way, have you decided how you're going to paint your Red Scorps? Are you going for the new IA grey scheme or are you going to paint up some Angstrom Incident guys? I really liked that jagged black and red scheme.

@arkhamjack: Thanks! I appreciate the suggestion; I can use all the advice on colors and paints I can get. The more I think about it, the more I realize I need to do more brown. More on this later....

@SL: I guess I am a little frustrated, but mainly because I want to start painting squads and characters rather than trying to figure out base coats. I haven't given up on the red yet; I'll keep experimenting!

I just realized that this little blog has reached 3 pages with little more than base coat experiments! Thanks for your support guys; I really appreciate it.

(Of course Gits got to three pages with nothing more than fluff.... )

I'm going with the FW style, with Angstrom vets.

How about this? It's not quite right yet... the brown needs to be redder, but I think I know how to do that. May give it another go on a different figure if I can get the time.



compaired to...



I think if I started with something like Vermin Brown with a Delvan wash, you'd be right there. Trick would be to make it air brushable so you could blend it up a little bit.

Thats def too brown imo gits. Some sort of rust colour would work, vermin brown or equivalent would be perfect imo. Yellow is a bit too sharp too

@Yellow: I think number 1 is the best, though if you could make the red hue a bit more orange you'd be right on the money!

I agree, that's why you experiment. That's also why you have to paint them beyond the base and wash stage in order to find out how they're going to look.

Fooled around some more, got the yellow toned down a bit. After due consideration, I think it's vermin brown with a delvan wash for the body & bubonic brown with a sepia wash for the yellow areas. Though I think the top highlight of the bubonic areas would actually be tinged with yellow.

Id be tempted to highlight the yellowy areas with bleached bone.

I think the edge highlights would be done that way... but if you look at the original artwork there's actually yellow there, if muted. Bubonic, while it looks like the right shade (that's where I started originally) is *really* flat... has no natural glow at all. That didn't look right to my eye. I wonder what a thin coat of the new yellow glaze would do over the top of that.

@Gits & Vitruvian: you guys are amazing, and I mean that in a good wa! Yes, this is the direction I want to go. In fact, I was doing some research yesterday and came across these Fire Dragons by Stahly over at Tale of Painters. Here's his recipe:

"basecoat with VGC Dark Fleshtone, wash with Badab Black. Make sure you don't let the wash pool on the flat areas by pushing it into the recesses with your brush where necessary.... highlight with Dark Fleshtone again..... apply sharp highlights of Vermin brown."

I think this may be it. I'm out of town for the weekend but plan to give this a shot next week.

@Gits: Wow! Thanks for putting so much time into this project. I don't know whay else to say....

@Vitruvian: Thanks for the suggestions. Bleached bone is also something I was thinking about, kind of like Camelsob's highlights on Pedro Kantor.

No problem Yb, since I shot my mouth off I figured I owed you a little work.

Just thought I'd show the finished product...

It's a bit to brown imo. I still like the brick color.

And this is how Gits adds another marine to his GMS army

Very nice work, Gitsplitta. I like tjis marine very much, but i agree with Vitruvian and WM that is a shade too brown. I think, though, as you suggested, this is the right direction to try. Starting with Dark Flesh/Doombull Brown, which is much redder, might get the right result. I'll have to give it a try.

Also, I can really see what ypu and WM were gettong at when ypu said the details need to be painted, too. The extra bits really add to this marine and make him stand out.

Hey,
Nice plog matey, and you seem to have stirred up quite a lot of interest already!
Ok, onto my suggestion.

I am not, by any stretch, the world's best or most patient painter. However, I reckon you could come up with something very Fire Angel-y by doing something similar to how I approach Weeping Angels (which is in essence White prime, liberal sepia wash, repeat 3 times progressively thinner) and then hit it with Yellow Glaze and seal with matt varnish to take the edge off. Does that make sense?

I agree, wrong brown... not quite red enough (as I mentioned in an earlier post). But once I got to a certain point there was no going back, so I just thought I'd finish it. Right or wrong however... that brown is really delicious in-person.

If you look at his pistol holster... *thats* the brown he needs to be. I think that might either be vermin brown or dark flesh, with a delvan mud wash. Dark Flesh is much darker red, VB is on the lighter side but still with the red tone you need. Ogryn Flesh wash will actually bring you a long way to red too while still being in keeping with the brown feel.

In any case, even though both the brown and the yellow are off... I thought you'd be interested in the finished product. I'd make another one to see if I could get it right, but then I wouldn't know what to do with the second one.

@Graven: Thanks for chdcking out my blog! It's great to have you on board. I hope I can maintain the level of interest.

Thanks for the suggestion! That's an interesting approach. I would not have guessed that that's how you did the Weeping Angels. (Those are great models, by the way; I really love the statuesque image.). I'll have to give it a try, but it sounds like you might be leaning toward a yellowish model? 3 washes of Sia would add a lot of brown, but the glaze would change it quite a bit, I'm guessing. Have you tried the glazes yet? How are they? I haven't actually used the yet.

@Gits: Yes, of course, and thanks again for painting up this model. It really is very helpful.

I do like that color on the holster. Vermin Brown? I think that's Skrag Brown now....

I also found these Fire Dragons by Akaelus. He used Rinox Hide follwed by reds. This might work nicely, too.